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Re: Is there anything Ptgui can do that panotools cant?

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  • Jeffrey Martin
    ... This is a GREAT example of competition between 2 programs, one open source and one commerical. http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tech/ For example, the
    Message 1 of 19 , Oct 31, 2008
      On Thu 30-Oct-2008 at 18:18 +0100, Erik Krause wrote:
      >
      >But the open source community hasn't been idle either. New hugin has
      >almost the same features: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/

      This is a GREAT example of competition between 2 programs, one open source
      and one commerical.

      http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tech/
      For example, the vignetting correction in ptgui was inspired by hugin, which
      for one of the test images used an image (ahem ;-) I shot from Luca Vascon's
      window, using his wonderful (but horribly vignetting) yashica 300 5.6 lens.
      Joost was so impressed by this that he implemented a similar functionality
      in PTGui.

      So without the free and open source Hugin, which may not be quite as
      polished or easy to use as PTGui in some respects, there might not be some
      of the incredibly useful features available in PTGui.

      Not to mention enblend and enfuse which have made all of our lives easier.

      So, hooray for all open source software. And cheers to Pablo, Bruno, the
      rest of the Hugin team, for all their crazy ideas :-) And cheers to Joost
      for keeping up, and making it all extremely usable (and thus profitable).

      :-)


      Jeffrey Martin
      www.360cities.net - The World in Virtual Reality
      tel. +420 608 076 502 / skype jeffrey.s.martin


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erik Krause
      ... Oh, it is the very same functionality indeed. Based on a paper by Pablo d Angelo - http://biecoll.ub.uni-bielefeld.de/volltexte/2007/101/ Fortunately
      Message 2 of 19 , Oct 31, 2008
        Jeffrey Martin wrote:
        > For example, the vignetting correction in ptgui was inspired by hugin, which
        > for one of the test images used an image (ahem ;-) I shot from Luca Vascon's
        > window, using his wonderful (but horribly vignetting) yashica 300 5.6 lens.
        > Joost was so impressed by this that he implemented a similar functionality
        > in PTGui.

        Oh, it is the very same functionality indeed. Based on a paper by Pablo
        d'Angelo -> http://biecoll.ub.uni-bielefeld.de/volltexte/2007/101/
        Fortunately Joost gives credits in the about box. ;-)

        --
        Erik Krause
        http://www.erik-krause.de
      • Garrett Unglaub
        The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does not seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier, so instead of 24 @ 1.6 i get 0@1.6 and i
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 2, 2008
          The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does not
          seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier, so instead of 24 @ 1.6
          i get 0@1.6 and i end up with a dough nut shaped picture instead of a
          pano :-/


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Martin" <360cities@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > On Thu 30-Oct-2008 at 18:18 +0100, Erik Krause wrote:
          > >
          > >But the open source community hasn't been idle either. New hugin has
          > >almost the same features: http://hugin.sourceforge.net/
          >
          > This is a GREAT example of competition between 2 programs, one open
          source
          > and one commerical.
          >
          > http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tech/
          > For example, the vignetting correction in ptgui was inspired by
          hugin, which
          > for one of the test images used an image (ahem ;-) I shot from Luca
          Vascon's
          > window, using his wonderful (but horribly vignetting) yashica 300
          5.6 lens.
          > Joost was so impressed by this that he implemented a similar
          functionality
          > in PTGui.
          >
          > So without the free and open source Hugin, which may not be quite as
          > polished or easy to use as PTGui in some respects, there might not
          be some
          > of the incredibly useful features available in PTGui.
          >
          > Not to mention enblend and enfuse which have made all of our lives
          easier.
          >
          > So, hooray for all open source software. And cheers to Pablo, Bruno, the
          > rest of the Hugin team, for all their crazy ideas :-) And cheers to
          Joost
          > for keeping up, and making it all extremely usable (and thus
          profitable).
          >
          > :-)
          >
          >
          > Jeffrey Martin
          > www.360cities.net - The World in Virtual Reality
          > tel. +420 608 076 502 / skype jeffrey.s.martin
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Bruno Postle
          ... Can you send me a .pto project that shows this problem? Internally hugin does the usual panotools thing of working entirely with the horizontal angle of
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
            On Mon 03-Nov-2008 at 06:30 -0000, Garrett Unglaub wrote:
            >The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does not
            >seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier, so instead of 24 @ 1.6
            >i get 0@1.6 and i end up with a dough nut shaped picture instead of a
            >pano :-/

            Can you send me a .pto project that shows this problem?

            Internally hugin does the usual panotools thing of working entirely
            with the horizontal angle of view, it also keeps a record of the
            sensor size multiplier and calculates to and from focal length when
            required.

            --
            Bruno
          • yuval_levy
            ... - do you get a dialog asking to enter them? - what camera make/model do you have? - do you feed processed images, or directly out of camera? - what is the
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett Unglaub" <cruc10@...> wrote:
              > The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does
              > not seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier

              - do you get a dialog asking to enter them?
              - what camera make/model do you have?
              - do you feed processed images, or directly out of camera?
              - what is the locale set on your computer (regional language setting)?
              is the decimal point a comma or a dot?
              - what system is it? Win/Lin/Mac? and what flavor of it?

              there are known issues with image files where the exif metadata is not
              complete, either because one of the pre-processing tool has omitted to
              copy them (e.g. using "save for web" in Adobe Photoshop will strip all
              the unnecessary weight); or because the camera manufacturer uses some
              esoteric own exif tag. This second case is what happens with many
              Olympus cameras. I have found a potential solution and will implement
              it in the near future.

              If you can put up two of your input images for download somewhere, I
              can have a look and try to identify what causes the unexpected
              behavior you are experiencing.

              It may take a while though, my free time use has radically changed,
              and I've gone from short to long focal distance, and from stills to
              movies:
              <http://panospace.wordpress.com/2008/10/31/the-most-beautiful-smile-in-the-world/>

              :-)
              Yuv
            • Ken Warner
              Maybe there should be an option for hugin to not use exif data and to only use the values specified by the user.
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                Maybe there should be an option for hugin
                to not use exif data and to only use the
                values specified by the user.


                >>The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does
                >>not seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier
                >
              • Garrett Unglaub
                ... ah i see, so if there is no exif data available, you cant enter it in yourself? in ptgui i hadnt had that problem. it gives me the option to enter it, but
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Ken Warner <kwarner000@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Maybe there should be an option for hugin
                  > to not use exif data and to only use the
                  > values specified by the user.
                  >
                  >
                  > >>The only thing i seem to have a problem with in hugin is, it does
                  > >>not seem to want to save my focal mm or multiplier
                  > >
                  >



                  ah i see, so if there is no exif data available, you cant enter it in
                  yourself? in ptgui i hadnt had that problem.

                  it gives me the option to enter it, but then does not keep my data.

                  it says i can open a lens file but i dont know how to create one.

                  the images are converted from raw so there is no exif
                • Erik Krause
                  ... Which raw converter does not write the EXIF data in the result files? Even dcraw (8.88) does! However, use exiftool to copy EXIF data from raw file to
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                    Am Monday, November 03, 2008 um 19:11 schrieb Garrett Unglaub:

                    > the images are converted from raw so there is no exif

                    Which raw converter does not write the EXIF data in the result files?
                    Even dcraw (8.88) does!

                    However, use exiftool to copy EXIF data from raw file to result file.

                    best regards
                    --
                    Erik Krause
                    Offenburger Str. 33
                    79108 Freiburg
                  • Bruno Postle
                    ... I shoot with a manual lens and hugin has no problem with missing EXIF data, I just enter the angle of view manually. ... I d really like to see a .pto
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                      On Mon 03-Nov-2008 at 19:11 -0000, Garrett Unglaub wrote:

                      >ah i see, so if there is no exif data available, you cant enter it in
                      >yourself? in ptgui i hadnt had that problem.

                      I shoot with a manual lens and hugin has no problem with missing
                      EXIF data, I just enter the angle of view manually.

                      >it gives me the option to enter it, but then does not keep my data.

                      I'd really like to see a .pto project that behaves like this.

                      >it says i can open a lens file but i dont know how to create one.

                      You can 'Save lens...' on the 'Camera and Lens' tab.

                      --
                      Bruno
                    • Erik Krause
                      ... I think he refers to the slightly annoying behaviour of hugin to aks the lens information for any single image again. Most panoramas are shot with all
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                        Am Monday, November 03, 2008 um 22:00 schrieb Bruno Postle:

                        > >ah i see, so if there is no exif data available, you cant enter it in
                        > >yourself? in ptgui i hadnt had that problem.
                        >
                        > I shoot with a manual lens and hugin has no problem with missing
                        > EXIF data, I just enter the angle of view manually.
                        >
                        > >it gives me the option to enter it, but then does not keep my data.

                        I think he refers to the slightly annoying behaviour of hugin to aks
                        the lens information for any single image again. Most panoramas are
                        shot with all images the same lens so this should be optional...

                        best regards
                        --
                        Erik Krause
                        Offenburger Str. 33
                        79108 Freiburg
                      • Garrett Unglaub
                        So there just isnt a way to use your own exif data then? I m going to try a set of images with exif and let you know how it goes. Otherwise I ll upload some
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                          So there just isnt a way to use your own exif data
                          then? I'm going to try a set of images with exif and
                          let you know how it goes. Otherwise I'll upload some
                          pictures tomorrow


                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Erik
                          Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Am Monday, November 03, 2008 um 19:11
                          schrieb Garrett Unglaub:
                          >
                          > > the images are converted from raw so there is
                          no exif
                          >
                          > Which raw converter does not write the EXIF data
                          in the result files?
                          > Even dcraw (8.88) does!
                          >
                          > However, use exiftool to copy EXIF data from raw
                          file to result file.
                          >
                          > best regards
                          > --
                          > Erik Krause
                          > Offenburger Str. 33
                          > 79108 Freiburg
                          >
                        • PanoToolsNG.10.m8@spamgourmet.com
                          If you have your own EXIF information, you can likewise use exiftool to add them to any image you like. Though I am not sure why you wouldn t want the EXIF
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                            If you have your own EXIF information, you can likewise use exiftool to add
                            them to any image you like.

                            Though I am not sure why you wouldn't want the EXIF info from your original
                            raw to be copied to your converted image.(or why your raw converter is not
                            doing that anyway. Most do.)
                            Unless you are cropping your image, then you may want to change some of the
                            EXIF information.

                            Cheers,
                            Darren.

                            )-----Original Message-----
                            )From: Garrett Unglaub
                            )
                            )So there just isnt a way to use your own exif data
                            )then? I'm going to try a set of images with exif and
                            )let you know how it goes. Otherwise I'll upload some
                            )pictures tomorrow
                            )
                            )
                            )--- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Erik
                            )Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                            )>
                            )> Am Monday, November 03, 2008 um 19:11
                            )schrieb Garrett Unglaub:
                            )>
                            )> > the images are converted from raw so there is
                            )no exif
                            )>
                            )> Which raw converter does not write the EXIF data
                            )in the result files?
                            )> Even dcraw (8.88) does!
                            )>
                            )> However, use exiftool to copy EXIF data from raw
                            )file to result file.
                            )>
                            )> best regards
                            )> --
                            )> Erik Krause
                            )> Offenburger Str. 33
                            )> 79108 Freiburg
                            )>
                            )
                          • Garrett Unglaub
                            Well, the actual problem is the fact that i keep getting a donut shaped pano in hugin with the same settings as ptgui. I changed my lens data to 24mm 1.6x
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 3, 2008
                              Well, the actual problem is the fact that i keep getting a donut
                              shaped pano in hugin with the same settings as ptgui.

                              I changed my lens data to 24mm 1.6x multiplier rectilinear and i end
                              up with this http://home.comcast.net/~calculatrix/t1.jpg or
                              http://home.comcast.net/~calculatrix/t2.jpg



                              I am trying to get it to look like this
                              http://home.comcast.net/~calculatrix/backyard.html


                              i get that problem in ptgui if i have a focal length that is higher
                              than it should be


                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Am Monday, November 03, 2008 um 22:00 schrieb Bruno Postle:
                              >
                              > > >ah i see, so if there is no exif data available, you cant enter it in
                              > > >yourself? in ptgui i hadnt had that problem.
                              > >
                              > > I shoot with a manual lens and hugin has no problem with missing
                              > > EXIF data, I just enter the angle of view manually.
                              > >
                              > > >it gives me the option to enter it, but then does not keep my data.
                              >
                              > I think he refers to the slightly annoying behaviour of hugin to aks
                              > the lens information for any single image again. Most panoramas are
                              > shot with all images the same lens so this should be optional...
                              >
                              > best regards
                              > --
                              > Erik Krause
                              > Offenburger Str. 33
                              > 79108 Freiburg
                              >
                            • John Houghton
                              ... Maybe you are relying too much on automatic features. These don t always work perfectly - neither in Hugin nor in PTGui. Have you checked the control
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 4, 2008
                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett Unglaub" <cruc10@...>
                                wrote:
                                >
                                > Well, the actual problem is the fact that i keep getting a donut
                                > shaped pano in hugin with the same settings as ptgui.

                                Maybe you are relying too much on automatic features. These don't
                                always work perfectly - neither in Hugin nor in PTGui. Have you
                                checked the control point assignments, particularly those between
                                images in the neighborhood of the obvious discontinuities of the
                                output image? With some intelligent manual intervention, you can
                                easily get more-or-less identical results from both PTGui and Hugin.

                                As it's a 360 degree panorama, the hfov of the lens will be evaluated
                                accurately by the optimizer, provided you have a good spread of
                                control points. The optimizer gives a lot of control over what does
                                and doesn't get changed in the optimization if you choose to use it.
                                It can often help if you initialize the yaw values of the images to
                                their approximate known values. (In PTGui, use the Fill Yaw button on
                                the Image Parameters tab to automatically calculate the values).

                                While your PTGui result is quite good, it could do with levelling to
                                get the vertical features properly upright. (Don't overlook the
                                cloud reflections in the lake, which should also be vertically
                                aligned). If you aren't familiar with using t1 (vertical line)
                                control points, I suggest you take a look at this tutorial:

                                http://www.johnhpanos.com/levtut.htm

                                John
                              • Garrett Unglaub
                                Thank you I will check it out
                                Message 15 of 19 , Nov 4, 2008
                                  Thank you I will check it out



                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Garrett Unglaub" <cruc10@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Well, the actual problem is the fact that i keep getting a donut
                                  > > shaped pano in hugin with the same settings as ptgui.
                                  >
                                  > Maybe you are relying too much on automatic features. These don't
                                  > always work perfectly - neither in Hugin nor in PTGui. Have you
                                  > checked the control point assignments, particularly those between
                                  > images in the neighborhood of the obvious discontinuities of the
                                  > output image? With some intelligent manual intervention, you can
                                  > easily get more-or-less identical results from both PTGui and Hugin.
                                  >
                                  > As it's a 360 degree panorama, the hfov of the lens will be evaluated
                                  > accurately by the optimizer, provided you have a good spread of
                                  > control points. The optimizer gives a lot of control over what does
                                  > and doesn't get changed in the optimization if you choose to use it.
                                  > It can often help if you initialize the yaw values of the images to
                                  > their approximate known values. (In PTGui, use the Fill Yaw button on
                                  > the Image Parameters tab to automatically calculate the values).
                                  >
                                  > While your PTGui result is quite good, it could do with levelling to
                                  > get the vertical features properly upright. (Don't overlook the
                                  > cloud reflections in the lake, which should also be vertically
                                  > aligned). If you aren't familiar with using t1 (vertical line)
                                  > control points, I suggest you take a look at this tutorial:
                                  >
                                  > http://www.johnhpanos.com/levtut.htm
                                  >
                                  > John
                                  >
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