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Pano with small "live" parts?

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  • Bjørn K Nilssen
    I had a request from a client, for whom Im making a series of exterior and interior panoramas. They want to make the interiors as inviting as possible, with
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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      I had a request from a client, for whom Im making a series of exterior and interior
      panoramas. They want to make the interiors as inviting as possible, with flickering
      candles (small tea cnadles)

      The question was if it was possible to add flickering candle flames inside the static
      panorama.

      I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know exactly how, if it would be worth it, or if it
      would require downloading plugins etc?
      Any ideas?

      I could quite easily add flickering flames in 3D, but how to embed then into an
      interactive pano is another question...

      My first thought is to use Immervision, which can use overlaid animations with
      transparency, for Java7Flash.

      --
      Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
    • Keith Martin
      ... Sounds like a job for Flash Panorama Player (FPP) to me. My instinct would be to make looping animations of flickering candle flames as tiny SWF movies and
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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        Sometime around 12/9/08 (at 15:41 +0200) Bjørn K Nilssen said:

        >add flickering candle flames inside the static panorama.

        Sounds like a job for Flash Panorama Player (FPP)
        to me. My instinct would be to make looping
        animations of flickering candle flames as tiny
        SWF movies and embed them strategically around
        the FPP-based SWF pano.

        Exactly *how* I'd do that, I don't quite know!
        I'd start by going to the FPP forum though, at
        http://flashpanoramas.com/forum/

        k
      • Erik Krause
        ... http://www.devalvr.com/paginas/soporte/clickablevideo.html Aldo had a demo of Spi-V doing something similar. PTViewer can do it with the help of PTMovie.
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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          On Friday, September 12, 2008 at 15:41, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:

          > The question was if it was possible to add flickering candle flames inside the
          > static panorama.
          >
          > I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know exactly how, if it would be worth it,
          > or if it would require downloading plugins etc? Any ideas?

          http://www.devalvr.com/paginas/soporte/clickablevideo.html

          Aldo had a demo of Spi-V doing something similar.

          PTViewer can do it with the help of PTMovie.

          But I suspect that it might look pretty synthetic, if only the
          candles flicker but the shadows don't dance...

          best regards
          Erik Krause
          http://www.erik-krause.de
        • crane@ukonline.co.uk
          ... sorceror s appprentice ? I find it quite interesting, the search for inexpensive animation. I want that too.! dum de diddle e dum mick ... This mail sent
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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            Quoting Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>:

            > On Friday, September 12, 2008 at 15:41, Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
            >
            > > The question was if it was possible to add flickering candle flames inside
            > the
            > > static panorama.
            > >
            > > I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know exactly how, if it would be worth
            > it,
            > > or if it would require downloading plugins etc? Any ideas?
            >

            > But I suspect that it might look pretty synthetic, if only the
            > candles flicker but the shadows don't dance...

            sorceror's appprentice ? I find it quite interesting, the search for
            inexpensive animation. I want that too.!

            dum de diddle e dum

            mick



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          • Erik Krause
            ... You mean this one? http://german.about.com/library/blgzauberl.htm But I don t see the relation... best regards Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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              On Friday, September 12, 2008 at 20:22, crane@... wrote:

              > sorceror's appprentice ?

              You mean this one? http://german.about.com/library/blgzauberl.htm

              But I don't see the relation...

              best regards
              Erik Krause
              http://www.erik-krause.de
            • crane@ukonline.co.uk
              ... no I meant the disney film with the nice shadows of the water bucket carrying brooms. I mean animation when I did it was very labour intensive. to do any
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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                Quoting Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>:

                > On Friday, September 12, 2008 at 20:22, crane@... wrote:
                >
                > > sorceror's appprentice ?
                >
                > You mean this one? http://german.about.com/library/blgzauberl.htm
                >
                > But I don't see the relation...

                no I meant the disney film with the nice shadows of the water bucket carrying
                brooms.

                I mean animation when I did it was very labour intensive. to do any sort of
                travelling matt on film was expensive. It would be nice to be able to express
                your animated picture idea at little expense with the help of the modern
                equipement and all these kind software developers.
                regards


                mick

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              • Philipp B. Koch
                ... FPP offers the opportunity to add shadows to distorted hotspots (box objects) inside the player (via XML). But since FPP also lets you use animated SWFs as
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 12, 2008
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                  Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:


                  > The question was if it was possible to add flickering candle flames inside the static panorama. I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know exactly how, if it would be worth it, or if it would require downloading plugins etc? Any ideas?>
                  >
                  Erik Krause schrieb:
                  >> But I suspect that it might look pretty synthetic, if only the
                  >> candles flicker but the shadows don't dance...
                  FPP offers the opportunity to add shadows to distorted hotspots (box
                  objects) inside the player (via XML). But since FPP also lets you use
                  animated SWFs as box objects, the simplest way to have your candles with
                  shadows would possibly be: Make these animated candle lights including
                  semi-transparent shadows (alpha-transparency) in Flash, export as SWF
                  and embed them in your FPP pano. They can be inserted "distorted" so
                  they fit perspective no matter how you pan or tilt the panorama.

                  As for FPP, it's an rather easy task to do, so I (and surely a lot more
                  people here) might help if you face any problems.

                  Regards, Philipp Koch
                • Bjørn K Nilssen
                  On 12 Sep 2008 at 22:22, Philipp B. Koch wrote: Thanks for all tips on flickering lights. Looks like Flash FPP, Lucid?) or similar Flash tools is the way to
                  Message 8 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                    On 12 Sep 2008 at 22:22, Philipp B. Koch wrote:

                    Thanks for all tips on flickering lights.
                    Looks like Flash FPP, Lucid?) or similar Flash tools is the way to go. Looks like it
                    won't happen this time though (straight panos only), and I'm not at all convinced that it
                    would've looked good anyway.. But it's always good to know your options :)


                    > Bjørn K Nilssen wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > > The question was if it was possible to add flickering candle flames inside the static panorama. I'm sure it's possible, but I don't know exactly how, if it would be worth it, or if it would require downloading plugins etc? Any ideas?>
                    > >
                    > Erik Krause schrieb:
                    > >> But I suspect that it might look pretty synthetic, if only the
                    > >> candles flicker but the shadows don't dance...
                    > FPP offers the opportunity to add shadows to distorted hotspots (box
                    > objects) inside the player (via XML). But since FPP also lets you use
                    > animated SWFs as box objects, the simplest way to have your candles with
                    > shadows would possibly be: Make these animated candle lights including
                    > semi-transparent shadows (alpha-transparency) in Flash, export as SWF
                    > and embed them in your FPP pano. They can be inserted "distorted" so
                    > they fit perspective no matter how you pan or tilt the panorama.
                    >
                    > As for FPP, it's an rather easy task to do, so I (and surely a lot more
                    > people here) might help if you face any problems.
                    >
                    > Regards, Philipp Koch
                    >
                    --
                    Bjørn K Nilssen - http://bknilssen.no - panoramas and 3D
                  • Milko K. Amorth
                    Bjørn, ... Lucid will do easely. All you have to do is shoot a time lapsed node and pack it into a 3-10fps 4500-5000bit/sec On2 codec and a 1500-2000 wide
                    Message 9 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                      Bjørn,
                      > Looks like Flash FPP, Lucid?) or similar Flash tools is the way to go.
                      >
                      Lucid will do easely.
                      All you have to do is shoot a time lapsed node and pack it into a
                      3-10fps 4500-5000bit/sec On2 codec and a 1500-2000 wide
                      (equirectangular) frame sized video.flv
                      That should do the candle light effect just fine.

                      Cheers, Milko



                      --
                      Milko K.Amorth
                      ph:604.561.5101
                      fx:604.909.5125

                      www.VRCanada.ca
                      360° Immersive Imaging
                      Skype: VRdundee
                    • Milko K. Amorth
                      Bjoern, or h.264 video codec, i forgot to add. Cheers, Milko -- Milko K.Amorth ph:604.561.5101 fx:604.909.5125 www.VRCanada.ca 360° Immersive Imaging Skype:
                      Message 10 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                        Bjoern,

                        or h.264 video codec, i forgot to add.

                        Cheers, Milko


                        --
                        Milko K.Amorth
                        ph:604.561.5101
                        fx:604.909.5125

                        www.VRCanada.ca
                        360° Immersive Imaging
                        Skype: VRdundee
                      • Milko K. Amorth
                        ... I just uploaded a sample timelapse video in Lucid of the earth snowpack in the year 2007. http://360image.de/test/lucid/ If you should have trouble with
                        Message 11 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                          > Bjoern,
                          I just uploaded a sample timelapse video in Lucid of the earth snowpack
                          in the year 2007.
                          http://360image.de/test/lucid/


                          If you should have trouble with your cpu capacity go see the Youtube
                          movie here:
                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNpl6sp0dtg

                          Cheers, Milko

                          --
                          Milko K.Amorth
                          ph:604.561.5101
                          fx:604.909.5125

                          www.VRCanada.ca
                          360° Immersive Imaging
                          Skype: VRdundee
                        • wardnet2001
                          ... Hi Not exactly candle flames but a related idea http://billward.eu/shawbridge/shaw_dem.html Bill
                          Message 12 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Sometime around 12/9/08 (at 15:41 +0200) Bjørn K Nilssen said:
                            >
                            > >add flickering candle flames inside the static panorama.
                            >
                            > Sounds like a job for Flash Panorama Player (FPP)
                            > to me. My instinct would be to make looping

                            Hi

                            Not exactly candle flames but a related idea

                            http://billward.eu/shawbridge/shaw_dem.html

                            Bill
                          • Erik Krause
                            ... Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be nice only the moving parts where visible in the video... best regards Erik Krause
                            Message 13 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                              On Friday, September 19, 2008 at 16:36, wardnet2001 wrote:

                              > Not exactly candle flames but a related idea
                              >
                              > http://billward.eu/shawbridge/shaw_dem.html

                              Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be
                              nice only the moving parts where visible in the video...

                              best regards
                              Erik Krause
                              http://www.erik-krause.de
                            • Milko K. Amorth
                              Hi Erik, ... Yeah. Bill will have to restitch the pano each with another segment of the implotion and make a linear time lapse out of it. DevalVR, Spi-V or
                              Message 14 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                Hi Erik,
                                > Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be
                                > nice only the moving parts where visible in the video...
                                >
                                Yeah. Bill will have to restitch the pano each with another segment of
                                the implotion and make a linear time lapse out of it.
                                DevalVR, Spi-V or Lucid will do just fine displaying it.

                                Go Bill, go for it.

                                Cheers, Milko

                                --
                                Milko K.Amorth
                                ph:604.561.5101
                                fx:604.909.5125

                                www.VRCanada.ca
                                360° Immersive Imaging
                                Skype: VRdundee
                              • wardnet2001
                                ... Maybe next time. The video part here is 3 frames a second sequence. I m sure the static parts could be made transparent in the flv video. I remember an FPP
                                Message 15 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Milko K. Amorth" <panotools@...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Erik,
                                  > > Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be
                                  > > nice only the moving parts where visible in the video...
                                  > >
                                  > Yeah. Bill will have to restitch the pano each with another segment of
                                  > the implotion and make a linear time lapse out of it.
                                  > DevalVR, Spi-V or Lucid will do just fine displaying it.
                                  >

                                  Maybe next time. The video part here is 3 frames a second sequence.
                                  I'm sure the static parts could be made transparent in the flv video.
                                  I remember an FPP example somewhere with a girl at a bar, I think,
                                  which animated.

                                  Here is the same idea in another pano
                                  <http://billward.eu/glw_show_2008/glw_show_flash.html>
                                • wardnet2001
                                  . ... and another one
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                    .
                                    >
                                    > Here is the same idea in another pano
                                    > <http://billward.eu/glw_show_2008/glw_show_flash.html>
                                    >
                                    and another one
                                    <http://billward.eu/pages_glw_rad/rad_pan.html>
                                  • Erik Krause
                                    ... If I remember correctly in PTMovies extension to PTViewer you could specify a mask for the movie part (similar to an alpha channel). Another possibility in
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                      On Friday, September 19, 2008 at 12:44, Milko K. Amorth wrote:

                                      > > Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be
                                      > > nice only the moving parts where visible in the video...
                                      > >
                                      > Yeah. Bill will have to restitch the pano each with another segment of
                                      > the implotion and make a linear time lapse out of it.
                                      > DevalVR, Spi-V or Lucid will do just fine displaying it.

                                      If I remember correctly in PTMovies extension to PTViewer you could
                                      specify a mask for the movie part (similar to an alpha channel).
                                      Another possibility in PTViewer was the use of animated GIFs (with
                                      transparency) as hotspots.

                                      And I'm sure Spi-V and DevalVR have a masking possibility, too.

                                      best regards


                                      Erik Krause
                                      http://www.erik-krause.de
                                    • Sacha Griffin
                                      Does the link for the animated train still exist? I remember that was the most amazing thing I d seen. I think it would probably still stand up today. Does
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                        Does the link for the animated train still exist?

                                        I remember that was the most amazing thing I'd seen.

                                        I think it would probably still stand up today.

                                        Does anyone remember what I'm taking about?

                                        An animated virtual tour of a train all with ptviewer. Australia perhaps.





                                        Sacha Griffin

                                        Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                                        http://www.southern-digital.com

                                        http://www.seeit360.net

                                        404-551-4275









                                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                        Behalf Of Erik Krause
                                        Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:32 PM
                                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano with small "live" parts?



                                        On Friday, September 19, 2008 at 12:44, Milko K. Amorth wrote:

                                        > > Nice! No possibility to have other than a rectangular shape? Would be
                                        > > nice only the moving parts where visible in the video...
                                        > >
                                        > Yeah. Bill will have to restitch the pano each with another segment of
                                        > the implotion and make a linear time lapse out of it.
                                        > DevalVR, Spi-V or Lucid will do just fine displaying it.

                                        If I remember correctly in PTMovies extension to PTViewer you could
                                        specify a mask for the movie part (similar to an alpha channel).
                                        Another possibility in PTViewer was the use of animated GIFs (with
                                        transparency) as hotspots.

                                        And I'm sure Spi-V and DevalVR have a masking possibility, too.

                                        best regards

                                        Erik Krause
                                        http://www.erik-krause.de





                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Erik Krause
                                        ... You mean http://www.virtualtour.com.au/train/ ? Was easy to find (search google: PTViewer animated train found the proj-imim thread in
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                          On Friday, September 19, 2008 at 16:45, Sacha Griffin wrote:

                                          > Does the link for the animated train still exist?
                                          >
                                          > I remember that was the most amazing thing I'd seen.
                                          >
                                          > I think it would probably still stand up today.
                                          >
                                          > Does anyone remember what I'm taking about?
                                          >
                                          > An animated virtual tour of a train all with ptviewer. Australia perhaps.

                                          You mean http://www.virtualtour.com.au/train/ ?

                                          Was easy to find (search google: PTViewer "animated train" found the
                                          proj-imim thread in http://www.panotools.org/mailarchive/msg/11766

                                          best regards
                                          Erik Krause
                                          http://www.erik-krause.de
                                        • Erik Krause
                                          ... There are other nice examples in that thread. Unfortunately some links don t work any more. If I remember correctly Aldo s Spi-V version was very
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                            On Saturday, September 20, 2008 at 0:49, Erik Krause wrote:

                                            > found the
                                            > proj-imim thread in http://www.panotools.org/mailarchive/msg/11766

                                            There are other nice examples in that thread. Unfortunately some
                                            links don't work any more. If I remember correctly Aldo's Spi-V
                                            version was very impressive...

                                            best regards
                                            Erik Krause
                                            http://www.erik-krause.de
                                          • Milko K. Amorth
                                            Hi Bill, Holy.....two jumpers back to back. That s N sync for sure. However, this video paste technique feels really weird to me. Don t get me wrong here. I
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                              Hi Bill,

                                              Holy.....two jumpers back to back. That's N'sync for sure.

                                              However, this video paste technique feels really weird to me. Don't get
                                              me wrong here. I get it, what you are doing, but all too many would not.
                                              Just today I had a bunch of artists fiddle around with a simple touch
                                              screen trying to pan a simple panorama. Cheese (;-).....what is wrong
                                              here? They just did not get it. They acted so strange and gave up one
                                              quarter of the way and folded the display. Are we really going about the
                                              right way to display 360 VR? Or are we fighting an unknown ego?

                                              Everybody has its own right to art and express himself, but it still has
                                              to be comprehendable. At least in some way. This experience has been
                                              another eye opener that I am just a panohead. Nothing more.


                                              Cheers, Milko
                                              --

                                              Milko K.Amorth
                                              ph:604.561.5101
                                              fx:604.909.5125

                                              www.VRCanada.ca
                                              360° Immersive Imaging
                                              Skype: VRdundee
                                            • Milko K. Amorth
                                              Hi Erik, ... Yes. Aldo did a Hoovercraft animation pano landing to shore in 360. Sweeeet. And that was a quite a vew years ago already. Aldo is a great
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Sep 19, 2008
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                                                Hi Erik,
                                                > If I remember correctly Aldo's Spi-V
                                                > version was very impressive...
                                                >
                                                >
                                                Yes. Aldo did a Hoovercraft animation pano landing to shore in 360.
                                                Sweeeet. And that was a quite a vew years ago already.
                                                Aldo is a great visionary to me.

                                                Cheers, Milko

                                                --

                                                Milko K.Amorth
                                                ph:604.561.5101
                                                fx:604.909.5125

                                                www.VRCanada.ca
                                                360° Immersive Imaging
                                                Skype: VRdundee
                                              • wardnet2001
                                                ... They just did not get it. They acted so strange and gave up one ... the ... has ... Hi I absolutely agree with your point. I think I ve more or less given
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Sep 20, 2008
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                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Milko K. Amorth" <panotools@...>
                                                  wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  They just did not get it. They acted so strange and gave up one
                                                  > quarter of the way and folded the display. Are we really going about
                                                  the
                                                  > right way to display 360 VR? Or are we fighting an unknown ego?
                                                  >
                                                  > Everybody has its own right to art and express himself, but it still
                                                  has
                                                  > to be comprehendable. At least in some way. This experience has been
                                                  > another eye opener that I am just a panohead. Nothing more.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Cheers, Milko

                                                  Hi

                                                  I absolutely agree with your point. I think I've more or less given up
                                                  (for the moment anyway) expecting people who've never seen these
                                                  (slightly) interactive things to get it, some do, some don't. I wonder
                                                  if this sort of interactivity will ever be mainstream. Many people who
                                                  read this list (and others) are enthusiasts, the rest of the world are
                                                  just not, no matter how illustrative a set of panos might seem to be.
                                                  I remember the previously mentioned animated train, the hovercraft
                                                  landing (superb), synchronized panos, Immervision's excellent
                                                  potential - all, as mentioned, from some _years_ ago. I think panos
                                                  are still a bit like Cinderella waiting for The Prince to come along
                                                  and free her. Until then its mostly about having a bit of fun for our
                                                  own satisfaction. The recent appearance of decent panos in NYT (and
                                                  other papers) is significant but I think for most of that paper's
                                                  readers hardly noticeable. I think picture editors like the idea of
                                                  panos, but they cost, and the panos have to inserted in their websites
                                                  - not for them a totally straightforward proposition, but something
                                                  that has to organised.

                                                  Bill
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