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Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot

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  • Drew Fulton
    John, I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when you are
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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      John,

      I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
      here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
      you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
      here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
      comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site, http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
      to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.

      Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
      Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
      the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
      giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
      experience.

      Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
      Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
      ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
      as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
      my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
      I get one up, hopefully later this week.

      I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
      project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
      copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
      support. Thanks again.

      Best,
      Drew


      On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
      >
      >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
      >>>
      >>> Hans,
      >>>
      >>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
      >>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
      >>
      >> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
      >>
      >> Hans
      >
      > Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
      > do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
      > monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
      > comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
      > ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
      > head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
      >
      > Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
      > This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
      > summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
      > from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
      > be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
      >
      > John
      >
      >
      > John Riley
      > johnriley@...
      > jriley@...
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > --
      >
      >
      >
    • Sacha Griffin
      Fantastic setup. I d say it d require an assistant or an extra level of care reserved for certain types of people. I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I d
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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        Fantastic setup. I'd say it'd require an assistant or an extra level of care
        reserved for certain types of people.

        I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I'd knock into it one day and topple
        it over.

        The good part about yours, is that you reserve the max shooting height
        mostly.

        Whereas using the center column, (for tripods with a rotatable/angelable
        center column) you sacrifice the max height of the system. So you can't
        shoot your normal shots with the center column fully extended.

        An example tripod would be the gitzo 2220.

        However, I am not a tall person, so I rarely shoot at max height anyway.



        The good part about some fisheyes, is the lack of flare visible. Combined
        with a rotated image with overlap, you can eliminate any visible flare in
        the previous image.



        Drew//

        I started using a 14mm lens but was getting a whole lot of lens flare
        that I wasn't real happy with.



        The nodal ninja5 is lockable in all positions, however, the horizontal arm
        is just not long enough to flip the vertical assembly using a 5d 10.5 combo.
        This flip allows the head to face on the other side of the center of the
        tripod. You may not able point straight down and clear the entire tripod
        hole, but you maybe able to compensate using viewpoint correction.





        Sacha Griffin

        Southern Digital Solutions LLC

        http://www.southern-digital.com

        http://www.seeit360.net

        404-551-4275











        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
        Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:05 AM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot



        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
        Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:

        > I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
        > several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
        > handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
        > a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
        > really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
        > remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
        > with no success.
        >
        > I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
        > might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
        > then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
        > the next few weeks.

        Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
        http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/

        Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature for
        this, It does
        not have a locking knob for the rotator.

        I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
        This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
        transporting the tripod
        with the head on.
        Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you
        lean the
        tripod.

        Hans





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Riley
        ... Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his unbelieveable how the heck did you do that?? panos made while mountain climbing, ice
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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          On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Drew Fulton wrote:

          > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
          > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
          > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
          > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
          > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
          > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

          Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his
          unbelieveable "how the heck did you do that??" panos made while
          mountain climbing, ice climbing, outside a helicopter, etc, etc? He
          would be the go-to guy for something like that!

          Good luck and enjoy the adventure. Pura Vida!

          John

          John Riley
          johnriley@...
          jriley@...




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark D. Fink
          Drew, This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a kick out of your comment that you got about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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            Drew,

            This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a
            kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
            troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
            version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco aware of
            this...)

            Regarding shooting from the trees, do you mean setting up a tripod on a
            large branch, or suspended? If you are suspended, could you shoot free-hand
            while hanging upside down? Then, you'd have a zenith patch to do, but as
            long as you aren't too close to any of the detail, freehand might work. I'd
            probably pass out before finishing the sequence, what with all the blood
            rushing to my head, but it would be interesting to try.

            Mark
            www.pinnacle-vr.com
            www.nyc.360cities.net
            www.northernlight.net


            >-----Original Message-----
            >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            >Behalf Of Drew Fulton
            >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:18 PM
            >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot
            >
            >John,
            >
            >I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
            >here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
            >you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
            >here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
            >comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site,
            >http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
            > to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.
            >
            >Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
            >Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
            >the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
            >giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
            >experience.
            >
            >Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
            >Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
            >ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
            >as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
            >my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
            >I get one up, hopefully later this week.
            >
            >I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
            >project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
            >copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
            >support. Thanks again.
            >
            >Best,
            >Drew
            >
            >
            >On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
            >>
            >>> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
            >>>>
            >>>> Hans,
            >>>>
            >>>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
            >>>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
            >>>
            >>> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
            >>>
            >>> Hans
            >>
            >> Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
            >> do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
            >> monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
            >> comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
            >> ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
            >> head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
            >>
            >> Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
            >> This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
            >> summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
            >> from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
            >> be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
            >>
            >> John
            >>
            >>
            >> John Riley
            >> johnriley@...
            >> jriley@...
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------------------
            >>
            >> --
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------
            >
            >--
            >
            >
            >
          • Erik Krause
            ... Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ? best regards Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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              On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

              > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
              > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.

              Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?

              best regards
              Erik Krause
              http://www.erik-krause.de
            • Drew Fulton
              Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground... Drew
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                Drew

                On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Erik Krause wrote:

                > On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:
                >
                >> Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                >> Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.
                >
                > Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?
                >
                > best regards
                > Erik Krause
                > http://www.erik-krause.de
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > --
                >
                >
                >
              • Erik Krause
                ... Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a monopod to some branches
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                  On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

                  > Hae some
                  > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                  > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                  > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                  > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

                  Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near
                  foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a
                  monopod to some branches like I did for the cherries shot. For the
                  nadir shot I fixed it to some other branches. Befor I did that I
                  carefully measured the distance of the NPP from some marked points
                  and tried to put it in the same place after. Perhaps some laser
                  pointers would do an even better job.

                  Another idea would be you hang the camera on a monopod below you. If
                  you add some extra weights you might balance the whole thing such,
                  that the NPP hangs exactly below the end of the monopod, which would
                  allow for simply rotating it around the center of gravity. If you use
                  a fisheye lens and point it slightly down, you probably won't need a
                  nadir shot, but then you'll have the Problems with the zenith shot.

                  You need a cable release of course. I used a quite long one which
                  reached to any positions I'm visible. Camera was set to self timer
                  mode of course, allowing me to drop the cable and do something...

                  In any case it's a good idea to shoot with very large overlap. This
                  increases the chance to find some details you need for retouche.

                  best regards
                  Erik Krause
                  http://www.erik-krause.de
                • Erik Krause
                  ... 400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-) Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                    On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 12:01, Drew Fulton wrote:

                    > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                    400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-)
                    Erik Krause
                    http://www.erik-krause.de
                  • crane@ukonline.co.uk
                    ... I m planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon next week. I thought to use 2 monopods. one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                      Quoting Drew Fulton <drew@...>:

                      > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                      I'm planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon
                      next week.

                      I thought to use 2 monopods.
                      one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30 degree slant and the other with an arm
                      on the end so the camera is looking back with nothing in the way.

                      I will stick the pole out of the basket horizontally maybe using a boat
                      rollock for support and turn the monopod to take 4-6 photos then put the
                      camera on the other monopod and try to get the camera in the same place to
                      shoot what will be the nadir.
                      Everything needs to be clipped to a harness of course.

                      I guess you could do a similar thing using a branch for support.
                      and maybe have your ropes on the other side of the trunk of the tree.

                      regards


                      mick


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                    • John Riley
                      ... Mark, these fig trees aren t any thing like you are used to in the U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte growing on the tree,
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                        On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                        > Drew,
                        >
                        > This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I
                        > got a
                        > kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig
                        > with a
                        > troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
                        > version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco
                        > aware of
                        > this...)
                        >
                        >
                        > Mark
                        > www.pinnacle-vr.com
                        > www.nyc.360cities.net
                        > www.northernlight.net

                        Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                        U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                        growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                        ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                        the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                        grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                        tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                        you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.

                        There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                        www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                        forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!

                        John


                        John Riley
                        johnriley@...
                        jriley@...




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Mark D. Fink
                        ... Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 6, 2008
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                          >
                          > Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                          > U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                          > growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                          > ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                          > the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                          > grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                          > tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                          > you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.
                          >
                          > There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                          > www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                          > forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just
                          imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...

                          Mark
                          www.pinnacle-vr.com
                          www.nyc.360cities.net
                          www.northernlight.net
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