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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot

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  • Mark D. Fink
    Hans, Great tutorial, especially if people don t have the Pro version of PTGui that allows viewpoint correction. If you do have PTGui Pro, AND
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 4 10:15 AM
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      Hans,

      Great tutorial, especially if people don't have the Pro version of PTGui
      that allows viewpoint correction.

      <shameless plug>
      If you do have PTGui Pro, AND you're not already in Costa Rica in the midst
      of a shoot, :o) the Pinnacle VR has an option that makes shooting the nadir
      very easy. I've been using it extensively these last few months, and cringe
      when I look at my old work where I used a clone tool to fake my nadirs. You
      can see the relevant details at position 4:40 in the video I have on my site
      - http://www.pinnacle-vr.com
      </shameless plug>

      However, if you are working with uneven terrain, this approach doesn't work
      nearly as well as yours, Hans. PTGui Pro can handle some variation in
      topography, but not a lot of it.

      Mark
      www.pinnacle-vr.com
      www.nyc.360cities.net
      www.northernlight.net

      >Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
      >http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/
      >
      >Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature
      >for this, It does
      >not have a locking knob for the rotator.
      >
      >I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
      >This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
      >transporting the tripod
      >with the head on.
      >Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you
      >lean the
      >tripod.
      >
      >Hans
      >
    • Drew Fulton
      John, I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when you are
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 4 10:18 AM
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        John,

        I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
        here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
        you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
        here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
        comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site, http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
        to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.

        Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
        Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
        the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
        giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
        experience.

        Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
        Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
        ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
        as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
        my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
        I get one up, hopefully later this week.

        I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
        project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
        copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
        support. Thanks again.

        Best,
        Drew


        On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:

        >
        >
        >
        > On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
        >
        >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
        >>>
        >>> Hans,
        >>>
        >>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
        >>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
        >>
        >> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
        >>
        >> Hans
        >
        > Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
        > do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
        > monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
        > comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
        > ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
        > head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
        >
        > Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
        > This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
        > summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
        > from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
        > be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
        >
        > John
        >
        >
        > John Riley
        > johnriley@...
        > jriley@...
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > --
        >
        >
        >
      • Sacha Griffin
        Fantastic setup. I d say it d require an assistant or an extra level of care reserved for certain types of people. I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I d
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 4 10:20 AM
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          Fantastic setup. I'd say it'd require an assistant or an extra level of care
          reserved for certain types of people.

          I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I'd knock into it one day and topple
          it over.

          The good part about yours, is that you reserve the max shooting height
          mostly.

          Whereas using the center column, (for tripods with a rotatable/angelable
          center column) you sacrifice the max height of the system. So you can't
          shoot your normal shots with the center column fully extended.

          An example tripod would be the gitzo 2220.

          However, I am not a tall person, so I rarely shoot at max height anyway.



          The good part about some fisheyes, is the lack of flare visible. Combined
          with a rotated image with overlap, you can eliminate any visible flare in
          the previous image.



          Drew//

          I started using a 14mm lens but was getting a whole lot of lens flare
          that I wasn't real happy with.



          The nodal ninja5 is lockable in all positions, however, the horizontal arm
          is just not long enough to flip the vertical assembly using a 5d 10.5 combo.
          This flip allows the head to face on the other side of the center of the
          tripod. You may not able point straight down and clear the entire tripod
          hole, but you maybe able to compensate using viewpoint correction.





          Sacha Griffin

          Southern Digital Solutions LLC

          http://www.southern-digital.com

          http://www.seeit360.net

          404-551-4275











          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
          Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:05 AM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot



          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
          Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:

          > I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
          > several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
          > handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
          > a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
          > really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
          > remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
          > with no success.
          >
          > I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
          > might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
          > then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
          > the next few weeks.

          Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
          http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/

          Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature for
          this, It does
          not have a locking knob for the rotator.

          I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
          This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
          transporting the tripod
          with the head on.
          Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you
          lean the
          tripod.

          Hans





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Riley
          ... Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his unbelieveable how the heck did you do that?? panos made while mountain climbing, ice
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 4 10:27 AM
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            On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Drew Fulton wrote:

            > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
            > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
            > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
            > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
            > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
            > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

            Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his
            unbelieveable "how the heck did you do that??" panos made while
            mountain climbing, ice climbing, outside a helicopter, etc, etc? He
            would be the go-to guy for something like that!

            Good luck and enjoy the adventure. Pura Vida!

            John

            John Riley
            johnriley@...
            jriley@...




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mark D. Fink
            Drew, This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a kick out of your comment that you got about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 4 10:53 AM
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              Drew,

              This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a
              kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
              troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
              version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco aware of
              this...)

              Regarding shooting from the trees, do you mean setting up a tripod on a
              large branch, or suspended? If you are suspended, could you shoot free-hand
              while hanging upside down? Then, you'd have a zenith patch to do, but as
              long as you aren't too close to any of the detail, freehand might work. I'd
              probably pass out before finishing the sequence, what with all the blood
              rushing to my head, but it would be interesting to try.

              Mark
              www.pinnacle-vr.com
              www.nyc.360cities.net
              www.northernlight.net


              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
              >Behalf Of Drew Fulton
              >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:18 PM
              >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot
              >
              >John,
              >
              >I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
              >here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
              >you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
              >here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
              >comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site,
              >http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
              > to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.
              >
              >Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
              >Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
              >the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
              >giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
              >experience.
              >
              >Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
              >Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
              >ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
              >as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
              >my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
              >I get one up, hopefully later this week.
              >
              >I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
              >project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
              >copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
              >support. Thanks again.
              >
              >Best,
              >Drew
              >
              >
              >On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
              >>
              >>> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
              >>>>
              >>>> Hans,
              >>>>
              >>>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
              >>>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
              >>>
              >>> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
              >>>
              >>> Hans
              >>
              >> Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
              >> do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
              >> monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
              >> comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
              >> ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
              >> head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
              >>
              >> Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
              >> This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
              >> summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
              >> from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
              >> be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
              >>
              >> John
              >>
              >>
              >> John Riley
              >> johnriley@...
              >> jriley@...
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >>
              >>
              >> ------------------------------------
              >>
              >> --
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
              >
              >--
              >
              >
              >
            • Erik Krause
              ... Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ? best regards Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 4 10:55 AM
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                On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

                > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.

                Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?

                best regards
                Erik Krause
                http://www.erik-krause.de
              • Drew Fulton
                Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground... Drew
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 4 11:01 AM
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                  Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                  Drew

                  On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Erik Krause wrote:

                  > On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:
                  >
                  >> Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                  >> Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.
                  >
                  > Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?
                  >
                  > best regards
                  > Erik Krause
                  > http://www.erik-krause.de
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Erik Krause
                  ... Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a monopod to some branches
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 4 11:15 AM
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                    On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

                    > Hae some
                    > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                    > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                    > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                    > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

                    Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near
                    foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a
                    monopod to some branches like I did for the cherries shot. For the
                    nadir shot I fixed it to some other branches. Befor I did that I
                    carefully measured the distance of the NPP from some marked points
                    and tried to put it in the same place after. Perhaps some laser
                    pointers would do an even better job.

                    Another idea would be you hang the camera on a monopod below you. If
                    you add some extra weights you might balance the whole thing such,
                    that the NPP hangs exactly below the end of the monopod, which would
                    allow for simply rotating it around the center of gravity. If you use
                    a fisheye lens and point it slightly down, you probably won't need a
                    nadir shot, but then you'll have the Problems with the zenith shot.

                    You need a cable release of course. I used a quite long one which
                    reached to any positions I'm visible. Camera was set to self timer
                    mode of course, allowing me to drop the cable and do something...

                    In any case it's a good idea to shoot with very large overlap. This
                    increases the chance to find some details you need for retouche.

                    best regards
                    Erik Krause
                    http://www.erik-krause.de
                  • Erik Krause
                    ... 400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-) Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 4 11:16 AM
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                      On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 12:01, Drew Fulton wrote:

                      > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                      400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-)
                      Erik Krause
                      http://www.erik-krause.de
                    • crane@ukonline.co.uk
                      ... I m planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon next week. I thought to use 2 monopods. one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 4 11:18 AM
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                        Quoting Drew Fulton <drew@...>:

                        > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                        I'm planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon
                        next week.

                        I thought to use 2 monopods.
                        one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30 degree slant and the other with an arm
                        on the end so the camera is looking back with nothing in the way.

                        I will stick the pole out of the basket horizontally maybe using a boat
                        rollock for support and turn the monopod to take 4-6 photos then put the
                        camera on the other monopod and try to get the camera in the same place to
                        shoot what will be the nadir.
                        Everything needs to be clipped to a harness of course.

                        I guess you could do a similar thing using a branch for support.
                        and maybe have your ropes on the other side of the trunk of the tree.

                        regards


                        mick


                        ----------------------------------------------
                        This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                      • John Riley
                        ... Mark, these fig trees aren t any thing like you are used to in the U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte growing on the tree,
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 4 2:55 PM
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                          On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                          > Drew,
                          >
                          > This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I
                          > got a
                          > kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig
                          > with a
                          > troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
                          > version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco
                          > aware of
                          > this...)
                          >
                          >
                          > Mark
                          > www.pinnacle-vr.com
                          > www.nyc.360cities.net
                          > www.northernlight.net

                          Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                          U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                          growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                          ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                          the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                          grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                          tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                          you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.

                          There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                          www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                          forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!

                          John


                          John Riley
                          johnriley@...
                          jriley@...




                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mark D. Fink
                          ... Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 6 6:14 AM
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                            >
                            > Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                            > U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                            > growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                            > ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                            > the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                            > grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                            > tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                            > you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.
                            >
                            > There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                            > www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                            > forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!
                            >
                            > John
                            >
                            Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just
                            imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...

                            Mark
                            www.pinnacle-vr.com
                            www.nyc.360cities.net
                            www.northernlight.net
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