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Struggling with Nadir Shot

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  • Drew Fulton
    Hey Everybody, I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I am
    Message 1 of 21 , Aug 3, 2008
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      Hey Everybody,

      I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently
      shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I
      am failing when it comes to covering the tripod with a handheld nadir
      shot. I am hoping some folks can offer some suggestions.

      I am shooting with a 360Precision Adjuste, Nikon D3, and Nikon 24-70mm
      f2.8 lens at 24mm. I am stitching with PtGui Pro and finishing up
      with Photoshop CS3. So now you know what I have at my disposal.

      I shoot 8 shots at 0°, 8 at 60° and 8 at -60°. Shoot Raw, convert to
      Tiff, stitch with PtGui and a great template. The results look great
      except I still have the tripod.

      I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
      several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
      handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
      a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
      really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
      remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
      with no success.

      I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
      might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
      then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
      the next few weeks.

      Thanks!

      Best,
      Drew

      Canopy in the Clouds: Science Education that Starts at the Top
      http://www.canopyintheclouds.com



      Drew Fulton Photography
      1511 S. Texas Ave, PMB 149
      College Station, TX 77840
      http://www.drewfulton.com
      ph: 979.764.4164
      c: 321.230.6212
      drew@...



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Drew Fulton
      Hey Everybody, I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I am
      Message 2 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Hey Everybody,

        I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently
        shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I
        am failing when it comes to covering the tripod with a handheld nadir
        shot. I am hoping some folks can offer some suggestions.

        I am shooting with a 360Precision Adjuste, Nikon D3, and Nikon 24-70mm
        f2.8 lens at 24mm. I am stitching with PtGui Pro and finishing up
        with Photoshop CS3. So now you know what I have at my disposal.

        I shoot 8 shots at 0°, 8 at 60° and 8 at -60°. Shoot Raw, convert to
        Tiff, stitch with PtGui and a great template. The results look great
        except I still have the tripod.

        I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
        several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
        handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
        a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
        really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
        remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
        with no success.

        I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
        might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
        then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
        the next few weeks.

        Thanks!

        Best,
        Drew

        Canopy in the Clouds: Science Education that Starts at the Top
        http://www.canopyintheclouds.com


        Drew Fulton Photography
        1511 S. Texas Ave, PMB 149
        College Station, TX 77840
        http://www.drewfulton.com
        ph: 979.764.4164
        c: 321.230.6212
        drew@...



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sacha Griffin
        Your best bet is to use an thin aluminum spike or another person’s finger. Use it to mark the point of the lens in space, and re setup the tripod offset. You
        Message 3 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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          Your best bet is to use an thin aluminum spike or another person’s finger.
          Use it to mark the point of the lens in space, and re setup the tripod
          offset.

          You will of course need a tripod with a movable center column to swing your
          camera back over this point. Its good to have a 5-10lb counter weight so
          everything doesn’t fall over.

          Handheld in a dark forest, isn’t going to cut it, unless you’ve amped up
          your iso, which of course will hurt the amazing quality you are trying to
          achieve.

          It’s very difficult in costa rican forest terrain, unless your spot is very
          level. I’d say also you’ve chosen the wrong lens for the job.

          24 is WAAY to long. Unless you want to print an 10 foot wide image at
          300dpi. Its much better to drop down to 10mm fisheye on a crop camera or 15
          fisheye on a full frame.

          This will make the nadir process much easier, and cover more ground. In the
          rainforest shots, there is probably a lot of moving vegetation close to the
          camera, so you’re going to end up with a mountain of retouching work,
          getting leaves and branches back where they should be.



          If you can position the camera semi well back over the npp spot, you can use
          a viewpoint correction to do the rest of the work.

          Using the finger trick, you can achieve good enough precision for a shot
          like this.

          http://southern-digital.com/noblemanor/360/index.php?id=2



          Also it maybe possible to flip the vertical arm on your head, (depending on
          the head) and moving the tripod only. Eliminating the need for using the
          center column as a camera boom. Then you won’t need to get the vertical
          precision.



          The rest of the problems should be retouchable.

          Good luck. If you need further help, I’m more than willing to fly right in
          to help you out!



          Pura vida!





          Sacha Griffin

          Southern Digital Solutions LLC

          http://www.southern-digital.com

          http://www.seeit360.net

          404-551-4275







          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Drew Fulton
          Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 8:57 AM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Struggling with Nadir Shot



          Hey Everybody,

          I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently
          shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I
          am failing when it comes to covering the tripod with a handheld nadir
          shot. I am hoping some folks can offer some suggestions.

          I am shooting with a 360Precision Adjuste, Nikon D3, and Nikon 24-70mm
          f2.8 lens at 24mm. I am stitching with PtGui Pro and finishing up
          with Photoshop CS3. So now you know what I have at my disposal.

          I shoot 8 shots at 0°, 8 at 60° and 8 at -60°. Shoot Raw, convert to
          Tiff, stitch with PtGui and a great template. The results look great
          except I still have the tripod.

          I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
          several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
          handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
          a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
          really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
          remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
          with no success.

          I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
          might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
          then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
          the next few weeks.

          Thanks!

          Best,
          Drew

          Canopy in the Clouds: Science Education that Starts at the Top
          http://www.canopyintheclouds.com

          Drew Fulton Photography
          1511 S. Texas Ave, PMB 149
          College Station, TX 77840
          http://www.drewfulton.com
          ph: 979.764.4164
          c: 321.230.6212
          drew@... <mailto:drew%40drewfulton.com>

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Hans Nyberg
          ... Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir. http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/ Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is
          Message 4 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:

            > I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
            > several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
            > handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
            > a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
            > really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
            > remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
            > with no success.
            >
            > I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
            > might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
            > then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
            > the next few weeks.

            Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
            http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/

            Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature for this, It does
            not have a locking knob for the rotator.

            I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
            This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for transporting the tripod
            with the head on.
            Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you lean the
            tripod.

            Hans
          • Drew Fulton
            Sacha, Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with the lens statement. I started using a 14mm lens but was getting a whole lot of lens flare that I wasn t real
            Message 5 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Sacha,

              Thanks for the suggestions. I agree with the lens statement. I
              started using a 14mm lens but was getting a whole lot of lens flare
              that I wasn't real happy with. The lens took a bit of a drop a couple
              weeks ago and I think it is ok, but am not totally positive so
              switched to the 24mm. I unfortunately, don't own a fisheye though I
              see one in my future when I get home. However, that being said, I am
              trying to create some very high resolution for educational purposes.
              As of right now, we don't know exactly what our final product is going
              to look like but it looks like we will need high resolution files down
              the line. Since I only get one chance to shoot in the forest, I am
              working under the theory of shoot the highest quality and then
              downsize later if we don't need it but I can't come back and reshoot,
              at least not in the wet season.

              So, working with what I've got now. I don't have a tripod with a
              column that can go horizontally unfortunately so I am trying to
              fashion something this morning and run some tests. Any other
              suggestions or help working with the gear I have would be greatly
              appreciated.

              Thanks!

              Best,
              Drew


              On Aug 4, 2008, at 8:01 AM, Sacha Griffin wrote:

              > Your best bet is to use an thin aluminum spike or another person’s
              > finger.
              > Use it to mark the point of the lens in space, and re setup the tripod
              > offset.
              >
              > You will of course need a tripod with a movable center column to
              > swing your
              > camera back over this point. Its good to have a 5-10lb counter
              > weight so
              > everything doesn’t fall over.
              >
              > Handheld in a dark forest, isn’t going to cut it, unless you’ve
              > amped up
              > your iso, which of course will hurt the amazing quality you are
              > trying to
              > achieve.
              >
              > It’s very difficult in costa rican forest terrain, unless your spot
              > is very
              > level. I’d say also you’ve chosen the wrong lens for the job.
              >
              > 24 is WAAY to long. Unless you want to print an 10 foot wide image at
              > 300dpi. Its much better to drop down to 10mm fisheye on a crop
              > camera or 15
              > fisheye on a full frame.
              >
              > This will make the nadir process much easier, and cover more ground.
              > In the
              > rainforest shots, there is probably a lot of moving vegetation close
              > to the
              > camera, so you’re going to end up with a mountain of retouching work,
              > getting leaves and branches back where they should be.
              >
              >
              >
              > If you can position the camera semi well back over the npp spot, you
              > can use
              > a viewpoint correction to do the rest of the work.
              >
              > Using the finger trick, you can achieve good enough precision for a
              > shot
              > like this.
              >
              > http://southern-digital.com/noblemanor/360/index.php?id=2
              >
              >
              >
              > Also it maybe possible to flip the vertical arm on your head,
              > (depending on
              > the head) and moving the tripod only. Eliminating the need for using
              > the
              > center column as a camera boom. Then you won’t need to get the
              > vertical
              > precision.
              >
              >
              >
              > The rest of the problems should be retouchable.
              >
              > Good luck. If you need further help, I’m more than willing to fly
              > right in
              > to help you out!
              >
              >
              >
              > Pura vida!
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Sacha Griffin
              >
              > Southern Digital Solutions LLC
              >
              > http://www.southern-digital.com
              >
              > http://www.seeit360.net
              >
              > 404-551-4275
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Drew Fulton
              > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 8:57 AM
              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Struggling with Nadir Shot
              >
              >
              >
              > Hey Everybody,
              >
              > I am fairly new to this and am hoping for some help. I am currently
              > shooting some spherical panos in the cloud forests of Costa Rica and I
              > am failing when it comes to covering the tripod with a handheld nadir
              > shot. I am hoping some folks can offer some suggestions.
              >
              > I am shooting with a 360Precision Adjuste, Nikon D3, and Nikon 24-70mm
              > f2.8 lens at 24mm. I am stitching with PtGui Pro and finishing up
              > with Photoshop CS3. So now you know what I have at my disposal.
              >
              > I shoot 8 shots at 0°, 8 at 60° and 8 at -60°. Shoot Raw, convert to
              > Tiff, stitch with PtGui and a great template. The results look great
              > except I still have the tripod.
              >
              > I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
              > several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
              > handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
              > a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
              > really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
              > remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
              > with no success.
              >
              > I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
              > might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
              > then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
              > the next few weeks.
              >
              > Thanks!
              >
              > Best,
              > Drew
              >
              > Canopy in the Clouds: Science Education that Starts at the Top
              > http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
              >
              > Drew Fulton Photography
              > 1511 S. Texas Ave, PMB 149
              > College Station, TX 77840
              > http://www.drewfulton.com
              > ph: 979.764.4164
              > c: 321.230.6212
              > drew@... <mailto:drew%40drewfulton.com>
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > --
              >
              >
              >
            • Drew Fulton
              Hans, This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I ll give it a try here in a couple minutes. Thanks! Drew
              Message 6 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Hans,

                This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                here in a couple minutes. Thanks!

                Drew

                On Aug 4, 2008, at 9:04 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
                >
                >> I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
                >> several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which
                >> makes
                >> handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
                >> a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
                >> really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
                >> remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
                >> with no success.
                >>
                >> I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
                >> might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
                >> then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
                >> the next few weeks.
                >
                > Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
                > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/
                >
                > Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important
                > feature for this, It does
                > not have a locking knob for the rotator.
                >
                > I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not
                > possible.
                > This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
                > transporting the tripod
                > with the head on.
                > Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate
                > when you lean the
                > tripod.
                >
                > Hans
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > --
                >
                >
                >
              • Hans Nyberg
                ... Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around. Hans
                Message 7 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hans,
                  >
                  > This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                  > here in a couple minutes. Thanks!


                  Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.

                  Hans
                • John Riley
                  ... Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the monopod? At
                  Message 8 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hans,
                    > >
                    > > This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                    > > here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
                    >
                    > Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
                    >
                    > Hans

                    Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
                    do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
                    monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
                    comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
                    ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
                    head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)

                    Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
                    This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
                    summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
                    from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
                    be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?

                    John


                    John Riley
                    johnriley@...
                    jriley@...



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Hans Nyberg
                    ... Sorry I meant a spike. Thanks for the correction. Hans
                    Message 9 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, John Riley <johnriley@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Hans,
                      > > >
                      > > > This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                      > > > here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
                      > >
                      > > Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
                      > >
                      > > Hans
                      >
                      > Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
                      > do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
                      > monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
                      > comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
                      > ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
                      > head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)

                      Sorry I meant a spike. Thanks for the correction.
                      Hans
                    • Mark D. Fink
                      Hans, Great tutorial, especially if people don t have the Pro version of PTGui that allows viewpoint correction. If you do have PTGui Pro, AND
                      Message 10 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                        Hans,

                        Great tutorial, especially if people don't have the Pro version of PTGui
                        that allows viewpoint correction.

                        <shameless plug>
                        If you do have PTGui Pro, AND you're not already in Costa Rica in the midst
                        of a shoot, :o) the Pinnacle VR has an option that makes shooting the nadir
                        very easy. I've been using it extensively these last few months, and cringe
                        when I look at my old work where I used a clone tool to fake my nadirs. You
                        can see the relevant details at position 4:40 in the video I have on my site
                        - http://www.pinnacle-vr.com
                        </shameless plug>

                        However, if you are working with uneven terrain, this approach doesn't work
                        nearly as well as yours, Hans. PTGui Pro can handle some variation in
                        topography, but not a lot of it.

                        Mark
                        www.pinnacle-vr.com
                        www.nyc.360cities.net
                        www.northernlight.net

                        >Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
                        >http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/
                        >
                        >Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature
                        >for this, It does
                        >not have a locking knob for the rotator.
                        >
                        >I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
                        >This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
                        >transporting the tripod
                        >with the head on.
                        >Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you
                        >lean the
                        >tripod.
                        >
                        >Hans
                        >
                      • Drew Fulton
                        John, I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when you are
                        Message 11 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          John,

                          I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
                          here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
                          you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
                          here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
                          comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site, http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
                          to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.

                          Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
                          Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
                          the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
                          giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
                          experience.

                          Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                          Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
                          ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                          as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                          my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                          I get one up, hopefully later this week.

                          I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
                          project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
                          copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
                          support. Thanks again.

                          Best,
                          Drew


                          On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
                          >
                          >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
                          >>>
                          >>> Hans,
                          >>>
                          >>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                          >>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
                          >>
                          >> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
                          >>
                          >> Hans
                          >
                          > Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
                          > do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
                          > monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
                          > comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
                          > ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
                          > head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
                          >
                          > Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
                          > This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
                          > summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
                          > from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
                          > be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
                          >
                          > John
                          >
                          >
                          > John Riley
                          > johnriley@...
                          > jriley@...
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • Sacha Griffin
                          Fantastic setup. I d say it d require an assistant or an extra level of care reserved for certain types of people. I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I d
                          Message 12 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                            Fantastic setup. I'd say it'd require an assistant or an extra level of care
                            reserved for certain types of people.

                            I guarantee if I shot like that alone, I'd knock into it one day and topple
                            it over.

                            The good part about yours, is that you reserve the max shooting height
                            mostly.

                            Whereas using the center column, (for tripods with a rotatable/angelable
                            center column) you sacrifice the max height of the system. So you can't
                            shoot your normal shots with the center column fully extended.

                            An example tripod would be the gitzo 2220.

                            However, I am not a tall person, so I rarely shoot at max height anyway.



                            The good part about some fisheyes, is the lack of flare visible. Combined
                            with a rotated image with overlap, you can eliminate any visible flare in
                            the previous image.



                            Drew//

                            I started using a 14mm lens but was getting a whole lot of lens flare
                            that I wasn't real happy with.



                            The nodal ninja5 is lockable in all positions, however, the horizontal arm
                            is just not long enough to flip the vertical assembly using a 5d 10.5 combo.
                            This flip allows the head to face on the other side of the center of the
                            tripod. You may not able point straight down and clear the entire tripod
                            hole, but you maybe able to compensate using viewpoint correction.





                            Sacha Griffin

                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC

                            http://www.southern-digital.com

                            http://www.seeit360.net

                            404-551-4275











                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                            Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 11:05 AM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot



                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                            Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:

                            > I am trying to shoot a handheld shot afterwards but I am having
                            > several issues. First, I am working in a very dark forest which makes
                            > handholding difficult. Second, the plants on the ground tend to move
                            > a bit when I remove the tripod so trying to stitch in PtGui doesn't
                            > really work with manually set control points. I have tried to do
                            > remap in PtGui (90 yaw, 90 pitch) and then touch up in Photoshop but
                            > with no success.
                            >
                            > I am really struggling here and would love any suggestions anyone
                            > might have to simplify this process. If I can get the Nadir working
                            > then I am good to go do a whole bunch of shooting in the forest over
                            > the next few weeks.

                            Here is a tutorial I just set up on how to take a perfect nadir.
                            http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/nadir/

                            Unfortunatelly the 360 precision Adjuste is missing an important feature for
                            this, It does
                            not have a locking knob for the rotator.

                            I just tried one a week ago and was surprised that this was not possible.
                            This is in my opinion a large miss as I also find it important for
                            transporting the tripod
                            with the head on.
                            Even if the click stops are very firm the panohead can easy rotate when you
                            lean the
                            tripod.

                            Hans





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • John Riley
                            ... Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his unbelieveable how the heck did you do that?? panos made while mountain climbing, ice
                            Message 13 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                              On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Drew Fulton wrote:

                              > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                              > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
                              > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                              > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                              > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                              > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

                              Now, for that you need Ignacio Ferrando! Have you seen his
                              unbelieveable "how the heck did you do that??" panos made while
                              mountain climbing, ice climbing, outside a helicopter, etc, etc? He
                              would be the go-to guy for something like that!

                              Good luck and enjoy the adventure. Pura Vida!

                              John

                              John Riley
                              johnriley@...
                              jriley@...




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Mark D. Fink
                              Drew, This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a kick out of your comment that you got about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
                              Message 14 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                Drew,

                                This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I got a
                                kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig with a
                                troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
                                version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco aware of
                                this...)

                                Regarding shooting from the trees, do you mean setting up a tripod on a
                                large branch, or suspended? If you are suspended, could you shoot free-hand
                                while hanging upside down? Then, you'd have a zenith patch to do, but as
                                long as you aren't too close to any of the detail, freehand might work. I'd
                                probably pass out before finishing the sequence, what with all the blood
                                rushing to my head, but it would be interesting to try.

                                Mark
                                www.pinnacle-vr.com
                                www.nyc.360cities.net
                                www.northernlight.net


                                >-----Original Message-----
                                >From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                >Behalf Of Drew Fulton
                                >Sent: Monday, August 04, 2008 1:18 PM
                                >To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                >Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Struggling with Nadir Shot
                                >
                                >John,
                                >
                                >I am currently working on a project here in Monteverde. We have been
                                >here about 4 weeks and have 3 to go. It is quite a wet time but when
                                >you are working with someone researching clouds, its a good time to be
                                >here. We will be returning again in February/March so will have a
                                >comparison of the dry season as well. Check out our site,
                                >http://www.canopyintheclouds.com
                                > to see some photos, video and learn a lot more about the project.
                                >
                                >Its a mighty tough place to work as everything is so dark and wet.
                                >Add the fact that I am often working dangling by rope in the top of
                                >the tree and things get really tough. Did get about 5 hours in a
                                >giant fig with a troop of Howler Monkeys last week. Quite an
                                >experience.
                                >
                                >Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                                >Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree. Hae some
                                >ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                                >as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                                >my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                                >I get one up, hopefully later this week.
                                >
                                >I just want to say thanks to all those who have supported this
                                >project. Matt at 360Precision provided the heads and Joost provided a
                                >copy of PtGui for my use. I couldn't be doing it without there
                                >support. Thanks again.
                                >
                                >Best,
                                >Drew
                                >
                                >
                                >On Aug 4, 2008, at 10:55 AM, John Riley wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:24 AM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Drew Fulton <drew@...> wrote:
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Hans,
                                >>>>
                                >>>> This looks like exactly what I am looking for. I'll give it a try
                                >>>> here in a couple minutes. Thanks!
                                >>>
                                >>> Be careful, as I said the Adjuste can easy turn around.
                                >>>
                                >>> Hans
                                >>
                                >> Maybe a little duct tape can keep it from rotating? And Hans, what
                                >> do you mean in your tutorial when you say you can use a spigot on the
                                >> monopod? At least in american english, a spigot is the thing water
                                >> comes out of in a sink. Do you mean a clamp of some sort? Very good
                                >> ideas in your tutorial. I will have to try that with my Absolute
                                >> head (and have some duct tape to lock the head too.)
                                >>
                                >> Drew, I wish I were in Costa Rica so I could come see your work.
                                >> This is only the second time in 10 years I haven't been there for the
                                >> summer 8-( My wife is a Tica and, in fact, her mother just returned
                                >> from CR three days ago. You picked a really wet time of the year to
                                >> be shooting! Which area are you in? Monteverde?
                                >>
                                >> John
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> John Riley
                                >> johnriley@...
                                >> jriley@...
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> ------------------------------------
                                >>
                                >> --
                                >>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >------------------------------------
                                >
                                >--
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Erik Krause
                                ... Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ? best regards Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
                                Message 15 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                  On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

                                  > Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                                  > Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.

                                  Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?

                                  best regards
                                  Erik Krause
                                  http://www.erik-krause.de
                                • Drew Fulton
                                  Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground... Drew
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                    Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                                    Drew

                                    On Aug 4, 2008, at 11:55 AM, Erik Krause wrote:

                                    > On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Once I get this nadir thing sorted, which I am nearly there thanks to
                                    >> Hans, the next step is taking the whole rig into the tree.
                                    >
                                    > Like that: http://pano.erik-krause.de/gardens/index.htm ?
                                    >
                                    > best regards
                                    > Erik Krause
                                    > http://www.erik-krause.de
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Erik Krause
                                    ... Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a monopod to some branches
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                      On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 11:18, Drew Fulton wrote:

                                      > Hae some
                                      > ideas on how to make it work but keeping myself out of the pano isn't
                                      > as easy on the ground. Can't just walk around but have to move all of
                                      > my ropes as well. Should be quite a challenge and will post here once
                                      > I get one up, hopefully later this week.

                                      Shootin in a tree is very tricky, because there usually is near
                                      foreground which causes heavy parallax errors. You could fix a
                                      monopod to some branches like I did for the cherries shot. For the
                                      nadir shot I fixed it to some other branches. Befor I did that I
                                      carefully measured the distance of the NPP from some marked points
                                      and tried to put it in the same place after. Perhaps some laser
                                      pointers would do an even better job.

                                      Another idea would be you hang the camera on a monopod below you. If
                                      you add some extra weights you might balance the whole thing such,
                                      that the NPP hangs exactly below the end of the monopod, which would
                                      allow for simply rotating it around the center of gravity. If you use
                                      a fisheye lens and point it slightly down, you probably won't need a
                                      nadir shot, but then you'll have the Problems with the zenith shot.

                                      You need a cable release of course. I used a quite long one which
                                      reached to any positions I'm visible. Camera was set to self timer
                                      mode of course, allowing me to drop the cable and do something...

                                      In any case it's a good idea to shoot with very large overlap. This
                                      increases the chance to find some details you need for retouche.

                                      best regards
                                      Erik Krause
                                      http://www.erik-krause.de
                                    • Erik Krause
                                      ... 400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-) Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                        On Monday, August 04, 2008 at 12:01, Drew Fulton wrote:

                                        > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                                        400m: http://pano.erik-krause.de/verdon/index.htm ;-)
                                        Erik Krause
                                        http://www.erik-krause.de
                                      • crane@ukonline.co.uk
                                        ... I m planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon next week. I thought to use 2 monopods. one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                          Quoting Drew Fulton <drew@...>:

                                          > Something like that, except 20-30m/60-100 feet off the ground...

                                          I'm planning making a panorama from inside the basket of a hot air balloon
                                          next week.

                                          I thought to use 2 monopods.
                                          one with the mrotatorCP which is at 30 degree slant and the other with an arm
                                          on the end so the camera is looking back with nothing in the way.

                                          I will stick the pole out of the basket horizontally maybe using a boat
                                          rollock for support and turn the monopod to take 4-6 photos then put the
                                          camera on the other monopod and try to get the camera in the same place to
                                          shoot what will be the nadir.
                                          Everything needs to be clipped to a harness of course.

                                          I guess you could do a similar thing using a branch for support.
                                          and maybe have your ropes on the other side of the trunk of the tree.

                                          regards


                                          mick


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                                        • John Riley
                                          ... Mark, these fig trees aren t any thing like you are used to in the U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte growing on the tree,
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Aug 4, 2008
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                                            On Aug 4, 2008, at 1:53 PM, Mark D. Fink wrote:

                                            > Drew,
                                            >
                                            > This sounds like a FANTASTIC trip! Being somewhat literal minded, I
                                            > got a
                                            > kick out of your comment that you got "about 5 hours in a giant fig
                                            > with a
                                            > troop of Howler Monkeys..." OK, so you meant a fig TREE, but I like my
                                            > version of it better. (Had no idea figs grew that big - is Nabisco
                                            > aware of
                                            > this...)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Mark
                                            > www.pinnacle-vr.com
                                            > www.nyc.360cities.net
                                            > www.northernlight.net

                                            Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                                            U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                                            growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                                            ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                                            the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                                            grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                                            tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                                            you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.

                                            There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                                            www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                                            forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!

                                            John


                                            John Riley
                                            johnriley@...
                                            jriley@...




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Mark D. Fink
                                            ... Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Aug 6, 2008
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                                              >
                                              > Mark, these fig trees aren't any thing like you are used to in the
                                              > U.S.! They are way cool and HUGE. They start out as an epiphyte
                                              > growing on the tree, which drops vines that grow way down to the
                                              > ground. Near the ground, they encircle the tree and take root. Then
                                              > the vines meld together and eventually totally envelop the tree. It
                                              > grows limbs and leaves and becomes a tree itself, killing the host
                                              > tree inside. It is wild to see these huge vine-tree things, which
                                              > you usually can see through the gaps to the hollow interior.
                                              >
                                              > There is a pretty amazing one in the area where drew is: <http://
                                              > www.costaricatravelscout.com/the-strangler-fig-tree.html>. The cloud
                                              > forest is so cool and spooky looking. I am jealous of his adventure!
                                              >
                                              > John
                                              >
                                              Simply amazing! I liked the reference to the Lord of the Rings. I can just
                                              imagine a hobbit climbing up inside one of those. Reminiscent of Mirkwood...

                                              Mark
                                              www.pinnacle-vr.com
                                              www.nyc.360cities.net
                                              www.northernlight.net
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