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Flashpanorama w. no Wavy lines

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  • Hans Nyberg
    The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very easy to control. With FPP you just need to use the right settings. This is a panorama which has
    Message 1 of 12 , Jun 10, 2008
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      The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very easy to control.
      With FPP you just need to use the right settings.
      This is a panorama which has been setup to avoid wavy lines almost completely.

      http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-1.html

      Note that the movement stops very fast and that the static high image quality starts almost
      instantly when the movement stops.
      All this is also easy controlled with the parameters.
      It performs fine even in fullscreen 23" 1920x1200 on my old G5 and even on my Powerbook
      from 2003 it is acceptable.

      Scroll down to see the parameters and a link to the same panorama with default settings.
      http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-standard.html

      Hans
    • Flemming V. Larsen
      Hi Hans and others, On my 2.5 Ghz / 3 GB Windows Xp your optimized FPP scrolls rather slowly , I don t see much wavy lines but there is a lot of flickering .
      Message 2 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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        Hi Hans and others,

        On my 2.5 Ghz / 3 GB Windows Xp your optimized FPP scrolls rather slowly , I
        don't see much wavy lines but there is a lot of "flickering".

        I have generally problems finding flickerfree settings for FPP on nature-
        and architectual scenes - while I manages to get it done with Pano2VR.
        So I guess it's not a flash problem.
        Here is my test
        http://panodep.dk/test/flash-test.htm

        I don't use fullscreen - because for this project I need to convert more
        than 500 panos to a autodetect multiviewer setup, and one third of them are
        old ones shot with a fish-eye adapter on Coolpix 995. I would like to use
        QVTR-format for FPP, so that I can use the same file for DevalVr/PangeaVr,
        Quicktime and Flash.
        As you can see from the test there is not much flicker on the QTVR shown
        with Quicktime-player, so it's caused by FPP.

        Can anyone help with better setting for FPP showing QTVR or is it not
        possible to eliminated the flicker with that combination?

        best regards

        Flemming



        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Hans Nyberg"

        > The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very easy to
        > control.
        > With FPP you just need to use the right settings.
        > This is a panorama which has been setup to avoid wavy lines almost
        > completely.
        >
        > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-1.html
        >
        > Note that the movement stops very fast and that the static high image
        > quality starts almost
        > instantly when the movement stops.
        > All this is also easy controlled with the parameters.
        > It performs fine even in fullscreen 23" 1920x1200 on my old G5 and even on
        > my Powerbook
        > from 2003 it is acceptable.
        >
        > Scroll down to see the parameters and a link to the same panorama with
        > default settings.
        > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-standard.html
        >
        > Hans
      • Ingemar Bergmark
        ... to control. ... When using high segment values, I prefer to use behaviour=0 . To me it gives a smoother feeling, even on slower PC s I know it s a
        Message 3 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
          >
          > The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very easy
          to control.
          > With FPP you just need to use the right settings.


          When using high "segment" values, I prefer to use "behaviour=0". To
          me it gives a smoother feeling, even on slower PC's

          I know it's a matter of personal preference which settings to use,
          but I've come to like these the most;

          segments = 50
          qualityStatic = high
          qualityMotion = low
          behaviour = 0
          sensitivity = 10
          keySensitivity = 10

          You can see an example here.
          http://tinyurl.com/6xzbwh

          / Ingemar
          http://bergmark.com
        • Juergen Schrader
          i like the picture very much, hans but i second the others that movement is too slow even on a reasonable machine. the quality is significantly better then
          Message 4 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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            i like the picture very much, hans but i second the others that
            movement is too slow even on a reasonable machine. the quality is
            significantly better then with the standard settings, though.

            best
            juergen

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
            >
            > The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very
            easy to control.
            > With FPP you just need to use the right settings.
            > This is a panorama which has been setup to avoid wavy lines
            almost completely.
            >
            > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-1.html
            >
            > Note that the movement stops very fast and that the static high
            image quality starts almost
            > instantly when the movement stops.
            > All this is also easy controlled with the parameters.
            > It performs fine even in fullscreen 23" 1920x1200 on my old G5 and
            even on my Powerbook
            > from 2003 it is acceptable.
            >
            > Scroll down to see the parameters and a link to the same panorama
            with default settings.
            > http://www.panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-standard.html
            >
            > Hans
            >
          • Hans Nyberg
            ... Not quite sure what you mean with flickering. However do not use segments higher than 30 for qualityMotion=medium. You have qualityMotion=low for
            Message 5 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Flemming V. Larsen" <fvl@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Hans and others,
              >
              > On my 2.5 Ghz / 3 GB Windows Xp your optimized FPP scrolls rather slowly , I
              > don't see much wavy lines but there is a lot of "flickering".
              >
              > I have generally problems finding flickerfree settings for FPP on nature-
              > and architectual scenes - while I manages to get it done with Pano2VR.
              > So I guess it's not a flash problem.
              > Here is my test
              > http://panodep.dk/test/flash-test.htm

              Not quite sure what you mean with flickering.

              However do not use segments higher than 30 for qualityMotion=medium.
              You have qualityMotion=low for autorotation and that makes a lot of what I assume you
              call flickering.

              In reality you can even set different settings for segments also for autorotation and for
              mouse panning.

              The easiest way to experiment with it is to use the editor but in this size that might not be
              possible as it takes a lot of place.

              Hans
            • Flemming V. Larsen
              ... From: Hans Nyberg
              Message 6 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Hans Nyberg" <
                >
                > Not quite sure what you mean with flickering.

                Shimmer might be a better word (eller flimmer på dansk)
                It's visible at sharp egdes, thin lines and fine details when the pano moves

                > You have qualityMotion=low for autorotation and that makes a lot of what I
                > assume you
                > call flickering.

                no I have qualityMotion=medium

                - Flemming
              • Hans Nyberg
                ... I just tested both your and mine on a very cheap entry level PC an Athlon 2.3 with no videocard but with just a very slow emulated one on the motherboard
                Message 7 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Ingemar Bergmark" <ingemar@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > The wavy lines you see in most flashpanoramas is actually very easy
                  > to control.
                  > > With FPP you just need to use the right settings.
                  >
                  >
                  > When using high "segment" values, I prefer to use "behaviour=0". To
                  > me it gives a smoother feeling, even on slower PC's
                  >
                  > I know it's a matter of personal preference which settings to use,
                  > but I've come to like these the most;
                  >
                  > segments = 50
                  > qualityStatic = high
                  > qualityMotion = low
                  > behaviour = 0
                  > sensitivity = 10
                  > keySensitivity = 10
                  >
                  > You can see an example here.
                  > http://tinyurl.com/6xzbwh

                  I just tested both your and mine on a very cheap entry level PC an Athlon 2.3 with no
                  videocard but with just a very slow emulated one on the motherboard which makes waves
                  on the screen on most websites just by scrolling down. I am surprised that you can sell
                  such shit today. I got it from a friend who bought a new one.

                  I had expected that your would be bad on that but it performs better than on my G5.
                  Your version with behaviour = 0 is very jumpy on the Mac. It might be because of my
                  resolution which is 1920x1200

                  Mine are very similar in performance on this PC and on the Mac.
                  And I can see very little difference in the smoothness when panning from my QTVR.

                  Hans
                • Hans Nyberg
                  ... Hm I can see that. But it does not work and I can not see why. There is a very clear change when the autorotation starts. I just changed this one so that
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Flemming V. Larsen" <fvl@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > ----- Original Message -----
                    > From: "Hans Nyberg" <
                    > >
                    > > Not quite sure what you mean with flickering.
                    >
                    > Shimmer might be a better word (eller flimmer på dansk)
                    > It's visible at sharp egdes, thin lines and fine details when the pano moves
                    >
                    > > You have qualityMotion=low for autorotation and that makes a lot of what I
                    > > assume you
                    > > call flickering.
                    >
                    > no I have qualityMotion=medium

                    Hm I can see that. But it does not work and I can not see why.
                    There is a very clear change when the autorotation starts.

                    I just changed this one so that you have medium both for mouse and autorotation.
                    http://www.360-foto.dk/dr/

                    There is no change at all if you pan and wait 5 sec for autorotation
                    This uses segments 28 which I find very nice for most normal subjects.

                    Hans
                  • Hans Nyberg
                    ... On all, my Computers including an Entry level PC with very bad video (read no Videocard) I can not see much difference to a QTVR in same size. The cube
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > i like the picture very much, hans but i second the others that
                      > movement is too slow even on a reasonable machine. the quality is
                      > significantly better then with the standard settings, though.
                      >
                      On all, my Computers including an Entry level PC with very bad video (read no Videocard)
                      I can not see much difference to a QTVR in same size.
                      The cube size is BTW 1800x1800 pixels

                      There is just a little difference in the way it pans with a slight movement before stopping,

                      Even on my old Powerbook 17 1 ghz there is not much difference.

                      You could compare it to Lucid viewer also which is very stiff and jumps around in steps
                      with a pano in the same size.

                      For normal use I use segments around 30 like this one. Wavy lines are still acceptable.
                      http://panoramas.dk/panorama/flash/flash-FPP-2.html

                      Hans
                    • Dave 360texas.com
                      Sorry to report... both have vertical banding/ shimmering. As I understand the process, Rotation is actually draw image, rotate .2 ( 2/10ths ) degree advance,
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                        Sorry to report... both have vertical banding/ shimmering.

                        As I understand the process, Rotation is actually draw image,
                        rotate .2 ( 2/10ths ) degree advance, redraw image in new postion all
                        done at 30 frames/ second. 30 frames comes from Television screen
                        refresh rates to avoid visual screen flickering. Faster screen
                        refresh rates results in smoother rotation.

                        Rotation is not really rotation.. it a process of just video card and
                        monitor screen refresh rates. How fast it rotates is controlled by
                        specifying how many 10ths of a degree advances -.2 is to left, +.2
                        is to the right.

                        Newer video cards with on board cpu's are faster than older ones,
                        hence different rotation speeds will vary between computers.

                        I think I stated that properly. Anyone else want to expand on this ?

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Flemming V. Larsen" <fvl@>
                        wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ----- Original Message -----
                        > > From: "Hans Nyberg" <
                        > > >
                        > > > Not quite sure what you mean with flickering.
                        > >
                        > > Shimmer might be a better word (eller flimmer på dansk)
                        > > It's visible at sharp egdes, thin lines and fine details when the
                        pano moves
                        > >
                        > > > You have qualityMotion=low for autorotation and that makes a
                        lot of what I
                        > > > assume you
                        > > > call flickering.
                        > >
                        > > no I have qualityMotion=medium
                        >
                        > Hm I can see that. But it does not work and I can not see why.
                        > There is a very clear change when the autorotation starts.
                        >
                        > I just changed this one so that you have medium both for mouse and
                        autorotation.
                        > http://www.360-foto.dk/dr/
                        >
                        > There is no change at all if you pan and wait 5 sec for autorotation
                        > This uses segments 28 which I find very nice for most normal
                        subjects.
                        >
                        > Hans
                        >
                      • Flemming V. Larsen
                        Your pano from the church has the shimmer too especially on the golden altar. And it get more pronounce if you make the window smaller! So I guees I have to
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                          Your pano from the church has the shimmer too especially on the golden
                          altar.
                          And it get more pronounce if you make the window smaller!

                          So I guees I have to drop FPP and stick to Pano2VR - As I allready use it
                          for QTVR converting it really won't be so hard.
                          I can even set up a batch droplet that makes both fileformat at the same
                          time and don't have to write xml-files.
                          - but I might have to buy some more space on the server.

                          - Flemming


                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Hans Nyberg"

                          Hm I can see that. But it does not work and I can not see why.
                          There is a very clear change when the autorotation starts.

                          I just changed this one so that you have medium both for mouse and
                          autorotation.
                          http://www.360-foto.dk/dr/

                          There is no change at all if you pan and wait 5 sec for autorotation
                          This uses segments 28 which I find very nice for most normal subjects.

                          Hans
                        • Hans Nyberg
                          ... The church is another xml with another setting. Actually it is also another page but you can also load it as another xml. If you look at the 2 with
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 11, 2008
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                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Flemming V. Larsen" <fvl@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Your pano from the church has the shimmer too especially on the golden
                            > altar.
                            > And it get more pronounce if you make the window smaller!
                            >
                            > So I guees I have to drop FPP and stick to Pano2VR - As I allready use it
                            > for QTVR converting it really won't be so hard.
                            > I can even set up a batch droplet that makes both fileformat at the same
                            > time and don't have to write xml-files.
                            > - but I might have to buy some more space on the server.
                            >

                            The church is another xml with another setting.
                            Actually it is also another page but you can also load it as another xml.

                            If you look at the 2 with movement. No 2 with Roger Moore which starts with a zoom in
                            and No 3 which pans fast around at start, you can see that during these auto movements
                            the quality changes to low, This is nessecary as the speed would fall to very slow on a
                            computer with an smaller processor.
                            http://www.360-foto.dk/dr/

                            You can change settings on the fly from pano to pano and even change it if you want
                            when going fullscreen as this may demand lower qualityMotion setting.
                            Just like Quicktime VR demands a low setting for a high resolution panorama while you
                            can apply medium to high quality for a small one.

                            Hans
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