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panos with people (under Linux/hugin)

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  • paul womack
    I ve just taken a pano sequence. There were several people moving about during the shooting. In some cases I took multiple exposures in a single position to
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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      I've just taken a pano sequence. There were several
      people moving about during the shooting.

      In some cases I took multiple exposures in a single
      position to get "whole" people in shot (as opposed
      to a person on a picture boundary).

      So I *think* I've got all the image information
      I need.

      I assume my core editing task is to render data areas
      I don't want transparent.

      How do I proceed in Hugin? Do I stitch and then
      edit the (cropped) mapped tiffs?
      (which may be difficult - I'm not sure Gimp
      handles cropped tiff correctly).

      Or should I remove data I don't want from the
      un-mapped images?

      Or is there another option?

      I'm working on Linux, so Hugin and Gimp are
      my main tools, with command line image processing
      via imagemagic and netpbm as my backup.
    • paul womack
      Further to my people question, I ve imported and control pointed my 22 images in Hugin I have around 6-8 control points between each pair in the sequence.
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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        Further to my people question, I've imported and
        "control pointed" my 22 images in Hugin

        I have around 6-8 control points between
        each pair in the sequence.

        Optimisation proceded OK, with a maximum error or 4.5

        But stitching is a disaster.

        The projection is panorama, 360 horizontal, 168 vertical.

        The lens is around 38 mm wide, and the shots were
        taken in portrait mode.

        I simply cannot understand what it's done.

        Can anyone interpret this image?

        http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/photo_tech/360.jpg

        BugBear
      • Sebastien Perez-Duarte
        ... This looks like a Transverse Mercator projection. Try equirectangular or cylindrical instead. Best, Seb
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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          On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 4:42 PM, paul womack <pwomack@...> wrote:
          > The projection is panorama, 360 horizontal, 168 vertical.

          This looks like a Transverse Mercator projection. Try equirectangular
          or cylindrical instead.

          Best,

          Seb
        • Erik Krause
          ... That s obviously the wrong projection. Choose projection (f): cylindrical on Stitcher tab... best regards Erik Krause http://www.erik-krause.de
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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            On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 15:42, paul womack wrote:

            > Can anyone interpret this image?
            >
            > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/photo_tech/360.jpg

            That's obviously the wrong projection. Choose "projection (f):
            cylindrical" on Stitcher tab...

            best regards
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
          • paul womack
            ... I ve used panorama before, to get a wrapped cylinder on a 11x2 pano of my workshop: http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg (it s
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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              Erik Krause wrote:
              > On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 15:42, paul womack wrote:
              >
              >> Can anyone interpret this image?
              >>
              >> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/photo_tech/360.jpg
              >
              > That's obviously the wrong projection. Choose "projection (f):
              > cylindrical" on Stitcher tab...

              I've used "panorama" before, to get a "wrapped" cylinder
              on a 11x2 pano of my workshop:

              http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg

              (it's actually broken in two there, since photobucket
              has a 1024x768 maximum size limit).

              My new pano (a 22 shot single row)
              is, I think, failing at the optimise stage:
              despite a maximum error of 1.19 pixels,
              I'm getting strong variation in yaw, pitch AND roll.

              yaw varies from -16 to 154
              pitch from -86 to 40
              and roll from -180 to 180

              That doesn't sound right to me.

              BugBear
            • Uri Cogan
              ... I m not familiar with hugin; I use PTGui, but the procedure for removing ghosts may be similar: I tell PTGui to output the equirectangular image as a
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                paul womack wrote:

                > I've just taken a pano sequence. There were several
                > people moving about during the shooting.
                >
                > In some cases I took multiple exposures in a single
                > position to get "whole" people in shot (as opposed
                > to a person on a picture boundary).
                >
                > So I *think* I've got all the image information
                > I need.
                >
                > I assume my core editing task is to render data areas
                > I don't want transparent.
                >
                > How do I proceed in Hugin? Do I stitch and then
                > edit the (cropped) mapped tiffs?
                > (which may be difficult - I'm not sure Gimp
                > handles cropped tiff correctly).
                >






















                I'm not familiar with hugin; I use PTGui, but the procedure for removing
                "ghosts" may be similar:

                I tell PTGui to output the equirectangular image as a complete image,
                plus a set of separate layers, where each of the segments is accessible
                in Photoshop. This allows me to mask unwanted areas and as a side
                benefit, to correct minor stitching errors.

                I hope this helps.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • paul womack
                ... By removing images, I think I ve spotted the problem. My pano is being wrapped top-to-bottom, and opposed to the nice 360 wrap round I want. So - how do I
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                  paul womack wrote:
                  > Erik Krause wrote:
                  >> On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 15:42, paul womack wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Can anyone interpret this image?
                  >>>
                  >>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/photo_tech/360.jpg

                  By removing images, I think I've spotted the problem.

                  My pano is being wrapped top-to-bottom, and opposed to the
                  nice 360 wrap round I want.

                  So - how do I control this?

                  BugBear
                • Erik Krause
                  ... My versions of hugin (the oldest is 0.7 beta 5) don t have Panorama ... First choose cylindrical. Then try Straighten in Pano Preview. If this doesn t
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                    On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 16:27, paul womack wrote:

                    > I've used "panorama" before,

                    My versions of hugin (the oldest is 0.7 beta 5) don't have "Panorama"
                    :-( Which version do you use?

                    > My pano is being wrapped top-to-bottom, and opposed to the nice 360
                    > wrap round I want.
                    > So - how do I control this?

                    First choose cylindrical. Then try "Straighten" in Pano Preview. If
                    this doesn't work, set pitch to 0.0 for all images, then optimize
                    again.

                    > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg

                    Nice old smoothing planes you have!

                    best regards
                    Erik Krause
                    http://www.erik-krause.de
                  • crane@ukonline.co.uk
                    Quoting Erik Krause : again. ... where is the jar of rabbit skin glue ? regards mick ... This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                      Quoting Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>:
                      again.
                      >
                      > > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg
                      >
                      > Nice old smoothing planes you have!
                      where is the jar of rabbit skin glue ?


                      regards

                      mick

                      ----------------------------------------------
                      This mail sent through http://www.ukonline.net
                    • Erik Krause
                      ... In this panorama it s partly hidden behind the ladder: http://pano.erik-krause.de/ateliers/werkstatt.jpg That was my workshop shortly after we moved to the
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                        On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 19:08, crane@... wrote:

                        > > > http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg
                        > >
                        > > Nice old smoothing planes you have!
                        > where is the jar of rabbit skin glue ?

                        In this panorama it's partly hidden behind the ladder:
                        http://pano.erik-krause.de/ateliers/werkstatt.jpg

                        That was my workshop shortly after we moved to the new rooms - its
                        far messier now...

                        best regards
                        Erik Krause
                        http://www.erik-krause.de
                      • Bruno Postle
                        ... Yes, in though in practice you can be quite approximate about this. Creating transparent areas for enblend has two purposes: 1. Indicating groups of pixels
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 3, 2008
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                          On Tue 03-Jun-2008 at 09:54 +0100, paul womack wrote:
                          >I've just taken a pano sequence. There were several
                          >people moving about during the shooting.
                          >
                          >In some cases I took multiple exposures in a single
                          >position to get "whole" people in shot (as opposed
                          >to a person on a picture boundary).

                          >I assume my core editing task is to render data areas
                          >I don't want transparent.

                          Yes, in though in practice you can be quite approximate about this.
                          Creating transparent areas for enblend has two purposes:

                          1. Indicating groups of pixels that you don't want contributing to
                          the final blended image. With enough blend levels is is conceivable
                          that every available source pixel in every photo contributes to
                          every pixel in the output.

                          2. Guiding the blend seam, which is actually a path, this seam is
                          placed as far away from transparent areas as possible, so just a
                          single transparent pixel can move the seam significantly.

                          >How do I proceed in Hugin? Do I stitch and then
                          >edit the (cropped) mapped tiffs?
                          >(which may be difficult - I'm not sure Gimp
                          >handles cropped tiff correctly).

                          Don't save cropped tiffs, as far as I remember cinepaint is the
                          only tool that handles them properly.

                          >Or should I remove data I don't want from the
                          >un-mapped images?

                          You can do that too, but it is very difficult to see which bits you
                          need to edit without seeing them in a stack.

                          >Or is there another option?

                          If you are feeling adventurous then you can do it in Inkscape:

                          http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/enblend-svg/

                          ..though hopefully this this summer, the google summer of code
                          'masking' project will make all this redundant.

                          --
                          Bruno
                        • paul womack
                          ... Hidden behind other stuff on the shelves. BugBear (with several old tools)
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                            crane@... wrote:
                            > Quoting Erik Krause <erik.krause@...>:
                            > again.
                            >>> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg
                            >> Nice old smoothing planes you have!
                            > where is the jar of rabbit skin glue ?

                            Hidden behind other stuff on the shelves.

                            BugBear (with several old tools)
                          • paul womack
                            ... Ah - hah! A luthier! BugBear
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                              Erik Krause wrote:
                              > In this panorama it's partly hidden behind the ladder:
                              > http://pano.erik-krause.de/ateliers/werkstatt.jpg

                              Ah - hah! A luthier!

                              BugBear
                            • paul womack
                              ... About gives me 0.7.0 ... Why, thank you. BugBear
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                Erik Krause wrote:
                                > On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 16:27, paul womack wrote:
                                >
                                >> I've used "panorama" before,
                                >
                                > My versions of hugin (the oldest is 0.7 beta 5) don't have "Panorama"
                                > :-( Which version do you use?

                                About gives me 0.7.0

                                >> My pano is being wrapped top-to-bottom, and opposed to the nice 360
                                >> wrap round I want.
                                >> So - how do I control this?
                                >
                                > First choose cylindrical. Then try "Straighten" in Pano Preview. If
                                > this doesn't work, set pitch to 0.0 for all images, then optimize
                                > again.
                                >
                                >> http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f234/bugbear33/workshop.jpg
                                >
                                > Nice old smoothing planes you have!

                                Why, thank you.

                                BugBear
                              • paul womack
                                ... It appears my optimiser had got stuck in a loop resetting all the images to be 0,0,0, and then setting roll to 270 (to allow for the portrait mode when
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                  paul womack wrote:
                                  > Erik Krause wrote:
                                  >> On Tuesday, June 03, 2008 at 16:27, paul womack wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>> I've used "panorama" before,
                                  >> My versions of hugin (the oldest is 0.7 beta 5) don't have "Panorama"
                                  >> :-( Which version do you use?
                                  >
                                  > About gives me 0.7.0
                                  >
                                  >>> My pano is being wrapped top-to-bottom, and opposed to the nice 360
                                  >>> wrap round I want.
                                  >>> So - how do I control this?

                                  It appears my optimiser had got stuck in a "loop"

                                  resetting all the images to be 0,0,0, and then setting
                                  roll to 270 (to allow for the portrait mode
                                  when taking the shots) and re-optimising
                                  suddenly gave me what I wanted.

                                  Thanks to all who helped.

                                  BugBear
                                • paul womack
                                  paul womack wrote: (reponse below) ... In case someone else searches the archive, I decide to proceed by turning my source JPGs into tiffs, and then removing
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                    paul womack wrote:
                                    (reponse below)

                                    > I've just taken a pano sequence. There were several
                                    > people moving about during the shooting.
                                    >
                                    > In some cases I took multiple exposures in a single
                                    > position to get "whole" people in shot (as opposed
                                    > to a person on a picture boundary).
                                    >
                                    > So I *think* I've got all the image information
                                    > I need.
                                    >
                                    > I assume my core editing task is to render data areas
                                    > I don't want transparent.
                                    >
                                    > How do I proceed in Hugin? Do I stitch and then
                                    > edit the (cropped) mapped tiffs?
                                    > (which may be difficult - I'm not sure Gimp
                                    > handles cropped tiff correctly).
                                    >
                                    > Or should I remove data I don't want from the
                                    > un-mapped images?
                                    >
                                    > Or is there another option?
                                    >
                                    > I'm working on Linux, so Hugin and Gimp are
                                    > my main tools, with command line image processing
                                    > via imagemagic and netpbm as my backup.

                                    In case someone else searches the archive, I decide
                                    to proceed by turning my source JPGs into tiffs,
                                    and then removing (making transparent) the unwanted
                                    areas (normally duplicate people) in Gimp
                                    via an Alpha channel (set in the Layer dialog).

                                    I also need to resequence some of the images in
                                    the pano to get my preferred shots to be
                                    dominant (i.e. go on top).

                                    I iterated a few times via the panorama
                                    preview to work out what edits to make.

                                    I did it this way (rather than editing the
                                    mapped tiffs) for two reasons

                                    1) I can now re-map-and-blend at different sizes
                                    2) Gimp doesn't handle cropped tiffs.

                                    Feature request for Hugin; could there be
                                    a reload(refresh?) changed source image.

                                    It was irksome to have to quit and restart
                                    hugin to see the result of a source edit.

                                    BugBear
                                  • Bruno Postle
                                    ... This is a good suggestion, it would be really useful if you could add it to the hugin tracker: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=77506 -- Bruno
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jun 4, 2008
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                                      On Wed 04-Jun-2008 at 14:57 +0100, paul womack wrote:
                                      >
                                      >Feature request for Hugin; could there be
                                      >a reload(refresh?) changed source image.
                                      >
                                      >It was irksome to have to quit and restart
                                      >hugin to see the result of a source edit.

                                      This is a good suggestion, it would be really useful if you could
                                      add it to the hugin tracker:

                                      https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=77506

                                      --
                                      Bruno
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