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Re: hdr, photomatix and photoshop

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  • Erik Krause
    ... The true HDR tonemappers like in photomatix, FDRTools, picturenaut and so on are ways better than photoshop tonemapping tool. For a comparison an
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 1, 2008
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      On Sunday, June 01, 2008 at 20:27, maston67 wrote:

      > Ive just started using hdr and am pretty amazed by the results.
      >
      > Some questions.
      >
      > - Been using photomatix trial and am thinking of buying. How does it
      > compare with the utility in the lastest versions of photoshop which I
      > havent got.

      The "true" HDR tonemappers like in photomatix, FDRTools, picturenaut
      and so on are ways better than photoshop tonemapping tool. For a
      comparison an overview see
      http://wiki.panotools.org/HDR_Software_overview

      Additionally there is exposure fusion to mention, like implemented in
      enfuse, tufuse and PTGui pro, which in many panographers' opinion
      gives even better results than the HDR tonemappers:
      http://wiki.panotools.org/Enfuse

      > - The windows in the images look fantastic but lights in the scene go
      > very orangey which looks kind of OK, but Id prefer them white. This
      > becomes worse when enhancing the image (to fix the flat renders) with a
      > bit of levels and colour saturation. Is there a way to fix this?

      This problem results from the different color temperature of the
      respective light sources. You can either go for blue outside and
      white tungsten lights or yellow tungsten interior and white outside.
      As a compromise you could use a white balance that is somwhere
      intermediate to get only slightly bluish outside and less intense
      yellow inside. Or you do a selective desaturation of either blue-cyan
      (if WB is for inside) or yellow-orange (if WB was for outside) in
      photoshop. Perhaps you need to mask respective colored details which
      should not be desaturated.

      With enfuse you can even try to use different WB for the different
      exposure steps, but this often gives strange results, f.e. if a
      reflection of window or interior that is lie from outside light is
      blue but the window itself is white...

      best regtards
      Erik Krause
      http://www.erik-krause.de
    • maston67
      Hi Carel OK, Carel Ill have a look at those. Thanks Masten ... does it ... which I ... scene go ... This ... with a ... to ... their other ... Enfuse. ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
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        Hi Carel

        OK, Carel Ill have a look at those. Thanks

        Masten

        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carel <cs@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > maston67 wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi
        > >
        > > Ive just started using hdr and am pretty amazed by the results.
        > >
        > > Some questions.
        > >
        > > - Been using photomatix trial and am thinking of buying. How
        does it
        > > compare with the utility in the lastest versions of photoshop
        which I
        > > havent got.
        > >
        > > - The windows in the images look fantastic but lights in the
        scene go
        > > very orangey which looks kind of OK, but Id prefer them white.
        This
        > > becomes worse when enhancing the image (to fix the flat renders)
        with a
        > > bit of levels and colour saturation. Is there a way to fix this?
        > >
        > > Many thanks
        > >
        > > Masten
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > Hi Masten,
        >
        > Photomatix has (had..? I have not used it for a while) a tendency
        to
        > increase the saturation on the tonemapped result. Not so with
        their other
        > (non-tonemapping) algorithm.
        > You should also look at FDRTools and the open source project
        Enfuse.
        >
        > Carel Struycken
        >
        > --
        > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/hdr%2C-
        photomatix-and-photoshop-tp17589771p17589980.html
        > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
        >
      • maston67
        Hi Erik Ok. Forget about Photoshop then. ... Wow, didn t realise there were so many products. What do you think produces the best results. Output for me is for
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
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          Hi Erik

          Ok. Forget about Photoshop then.

          >The "true" HDR tonemappers like in photomatix, FDRTools, picturenaut
          >and so on are ways better than photoshop tonemapping tool. For a
          >comparison an overview see
          >http://wiki.panotools.org/HDR_Software_overview
          >Additionally there is exposure fusion to mention, like implemented
          >in enfuse, tufuse and PTGui pro, which in many panographers' opinion
          >gives even better results than the HDR tonemappers:
          >http://wiki.panotools.org/Enfuse

          Wow, didn't realise there were so many products. What do you think
          produces the best results. Output for me is for web so I dont care
          about creating any hdr file, I just need the tonemapped results. Is
          it true, would you say then that exposure fusion is better as used
          by PTGUI pro. Manybe that would be the best option for me then as
          workflow with ptgui (3.7) and photomatix is terrible. Ill download
          the trial and see for myself.

          As regards the colour temperature thing it's not a white balance
          issue as the images I'm using all have correct white balances for
          outsides and insides on the original raw files. They only go orange
          after tonemapping. Ill try the desaturation thing. That's obvious
          isnt it.

          Thanks for the advice

          Masten



          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > On Sunday, June 01, 2008 at 20:27, maston67 wrote:
          >
          > > Ive just started using hdr and am pretty amazed by the results.
          > >
          > > Some questions.
          > >
          > > - Been using photomatix trial and am thinking of buying. How
          does it
          > > compare with the utility in the lastest versions of photoshop
          which I
          > > havent got.
          >
          > The "true" HDR tonemappers like in photomatix, FDRTools,
          picturenaut
          > and so on are ways better than photoshop tonemapping tool. For a
          > comparison an overview see
          > http://wiki.panotools.org/HDR_Software_overview
          >
          > Additionally there is exposure fusion to mention, like implemented
          in
          > enfuse, tufuse and PTGui pro, which in many panographers' opinion
          > gives even better results than the HDR tonemappers:
          > http://wiki.panotools.org/Enfuse
          >
          > > - The windows in the images look fantastic but lights in the
          scene go
          > > very orangey which looks kind of OK, but Id prefer them white.
          This
          > > becomes worse when enhancing the image (to fix the flat renders)
          with a
          > > bit of levels and colour saturation. Is there a way to fix this?
          >
          > This problem results from the different color temperature of the
          > respective light sources. You can either go for blue outside and
          > white tungsten lights or yellow tungsten interior and white
          outside.
          > As a compromise you could use a white balance that is somwhere
          > intermediate to get only slightly bluish outside and less intense
          > yellow inside. Or you do a selective desaturation of either blue-
          cyan
          > (if WB is for inside) or yellow-orange (if WB was for outside) in
          > photoshop. Perhaps you need to mask respective colored details
          which
          > should not be desaturated.
          >
          > With enfuse you can even try to use different WB for the different
          > exposure steps, but this often gives strange results, f.e. if a
          > reflection of window or interior that is lie from outside light is
          > blue but the window itself is white...
          >
          > best regtards
          > Erik Krause
          > http://www.erik-krause.de
          >
        • Erik Krause
          ... enfuse and tufuse used on the single image stacks. There is a GUI version of tufuse, called tufuse Pro: http://www.tawbaware.com/tufusepro.htm PTGui uses
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 2, 2008
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            On Monday, June 02, 2008 at 20:31, maston67 wrote:

            > What do you think produces the best results.

            enfuse and tufuse used on the single image stacks. There is a GUI
            version of tufuse, called tufuse Pro:
            http://www.tawbaware.com/tufusepro.htm
            PTGui uses exposure fusion on the result panoramas, which is time
            consuming and can give artifacts in Zenith and Nadir.

            > As regards the colour temperature thing it's not a white balance
            > issue as the images I'm using all have correct white balances for
            > outsides and insides on the original raw files. They only go orange
            > after tonemapping.

            Yes, as Carel wrote photomatix (and FDRTools to a lower extent) have
            the tendency to increase saturation (sometimes in a strange way).
            Exposure fusion won't do that, it is a very sophisticated way of
            exposure blending which uses the best exposed parts of each image.
            Hence there should be no change in saturation. But actually it is a
            white balance issue, intensified by tonemapping.

            best regards
            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
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