Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [PanoToolsNG] ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single row panoramic photography

Expand Messages
  • Daniel Reetz
    ... The nature of the problem means it s no surprise that many of these rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal? No-one is dropping into your
    Message 1 of 27 , May 2, 2008
      > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
      > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
      > ha) resemblance to.

      The nature of the problem means it's no surprise that many of these
      rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal?

      No-one is dropping into your product announcement thread with
      smart-aleck comments. My decision not to purchase 360Precision
      products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
      online behavior.

      DR

      > Matt
      >
      >
      >
      > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > Hi Ken,
      > > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
      > > of a
      > > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
      > > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of
      > > the
      > > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
      > > needs of
      > > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
      > > for use
      > > with all wide angle lenses.
      > > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
      > > Cheers
      > > Bill
      > >
      > > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
      > > >
      > > > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
      > > > 360Precision.
      > > >
      > > > BUT!
      > > >
      > > > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
      > > straight up
      > > > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
      > > >
      > > > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
      > > >
      > > > Bill Bailey wrote:
      > > >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
      > > Nodal Ninja:
      > > >>
      > > >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
      > > the
      > > >> Nodal
      > > >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
      > > combinations which
      > > >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
      > > panos
      > > >> (such
      > > >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
      > > >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
      > > with
      > > >> long
      > > >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
      > > >>
      > > >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
      > > lens
      > > >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
      > > >> shooting.
      > > >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
      > > Sigma
      > > >> 4.5mm,
      > > >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
      > > making
      > > >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
      > > panos.
      > > >> Lenses
      > > >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
      > > cropped
      > > >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
      > > (to be
      > > >> released later) for making spherical panos.
      > > >>
      > > >>
      > > >> Here are the features.
      > > >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
      > > >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
      > > socket)
      > > >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
      > > and Nikon
      > > >> D3.
      > > >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
      > > >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
      > > works
      > > >> with
      > > >> other Nodal Ninja's.
      > > >> * 4 detent interval options
      > > >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
      > > 90, 60,
      > > >> 45,
      > > >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
      > > spherical
      > > >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
      > > >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
      > > >> * knob for locking rotation
      > > >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
      > > >> * small nadir footprint
      > > >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
      > > >> keeping
      > > >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
      > > that they
      > > >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
      > > >> * compact and light weight
      > > >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
      > > >> * 5kg loading supported
      > > >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
      > > >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
      > > >>
      > > >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
      > > >> Target price is US$179.95
      > > >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
      > > black.
      > > >>
      > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
      > > >>
      > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
      > > >>
      > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
      > > >>
      > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
      > > >>
      > > >> More information as it becomes available can be
      > > >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
      > > >>
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > > --
      > > View this message in context:
      > http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
      > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
    • Keith Martin
      ... But (to misquote an old saying) don t end up cutting off your nose to spite someone else s face. Okay, that makes no sense in anatomical terms, but you get
      Message 2 of 27 , May 2, 2008
        Sometime around 2/5/08 (at 11:58 -0500) Daniel Reetz said:

        >My decision not to purchase 360Precision
        >products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
        >online behavior.

        But (to misquote an old saying) don't end up cutting off your nose to
        spite someone else's face.

        Okay, that makes no sense in anatomical terms, but you get my meaning I hope...

        k
      • Matthew Rogers
        Yes but I didn t unnecessarily criticise their products without ever having seen or used one. Believe me I could spend all day doing so but I don t. ...
        Message 3 of 27 , May 2, 2008
          Yes but I didn't unnecessarily criticise their products without ever
          having seen or used one. Believe me I could spend all day doing so but
          I don't.

          On 2 May 2008, at 17:58, Daniel Reetz wrote:

          > > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
          > > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
          > > ha) resemblance to.
          >
          > The nature of the problem means it's no surprise that many of these
          > rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal?
          >
          > No-one is dropping into your product announcement thread with
          > smart-aleck comments. My decision not to purchase 360Precision
          > products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
          > online behavior.
          >
          > DR
          >
          > > Matt
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > > > Hi Ken,
          > > > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
          > > > of a
          > > > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye
          > brackets.
          > > > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by
          > way of
          > > > the
          > > > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
          > > > needs of
          > > > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
          > > > for use
          > > > with all wide angle lenses.
          > > > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
          > > > Cheers
          > > > Bill
          > > >
          > > > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
          > > > > 360Precision.
          > > > >
          > > > > BUT!
          > > > >
          > > > > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
          > > > straight up
          > > > > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
          > > > >
          > > > > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
          > > > >
          > > > > Bill Bailey wrote:
          > > > >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
          > > > Nodal Ninja:
          > > > >>
          > > > >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product
          > line -
          > > > the
          > > > >> Nodal
          > > > >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
          > > > combinations which
          > > > >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot
          > spherical
          > > > panos
          > > > >> (such
          > > > >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
          > > > >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185
          > Pro
          > > > with
          > > > >> long
          > > > >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
          > > > >>
          > > > >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain
          > camera/
          > > > lens
          > > > >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-
          > row
          > > > >> shooting.
          > > > >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
          > > > Sigma
          > > > >> 4.5mm,
          > > > >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9)
          > for
          > > > making
          > > > >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
          > > > panos.
          > > > >> Lenses
          > > > >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma
          > 8mm on
          > > > cropped
          > > > >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted
          > adapter
          > > > (to be
          > > > >> released later) for making spherical panos.
          > > > >>
          > > > >>
          > > > >> Here are the features.
          > > > >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
          > > > >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset
          > tripod
          > > > socket)
          > > > >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
          > > > and Nikon
          > > > >> D3.
          > > > >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
          > > > >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
          > > > works
          > > > >> with
          > > > >> other Nodal Ninja's.
          > > > >> * 4 detent interval options
          > > > >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
          > > > 90, 60,
          > > > >> 45,
          > > > >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
          > > > spherical
          > > > >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
          > > > >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
          > > > >> * knob for locking rotation
          > > > >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
          > > > >> * small nadir footprint
          > > > >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability
          > while
          > > > >> keeping
          > > > >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
          > > > that they
          > > > >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
          > > > >> * compact and light weight
          > > > >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
          > > > >> * 5kg loading supported
          > > > >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
          > > > >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
          > > > >>
          > > > >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
          > > > >> Target price is US$179.95
          > > > >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
          > > > black.
          > > > >>
          > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
          > > > >>
          > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
          > > > >>
          > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
          > > > >>
          > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
          > > > >>
          > > > >> More information as it becomes available can be
          > > > >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
          > > > >>
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > > View this message in context:
          > > http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
          > > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Bailey
          Hi Matt, Hope all s well in the UK. We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues
          Message 4 of 27 , May 2, 2008
            Hi Matt,
            Hope all's well in the UK.
            We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We
            contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise from people
            using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
            They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the lens
            mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used in this
            fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the plastic is
            obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type systems (and
            there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the lens mount
            area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the camera
            while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the tripod with
            a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long lenses have
            tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.

            We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage occurred to
            the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a configuration of
            this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty. This is in
            the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we opted
            for a different design. That said you might want to include a disclaimer.
            Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise, and in
            doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local authorized
            camera dealer and ask.

            You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
            (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we send to
            Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we send them
            your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)

            All the best
            Bill



            Matthew Rogers-2 wrote:
            >
            > There's nothing sensitive about the part of the lens the Atome clasp
            > attaches to. Plus, you can already use the base section of an Adjuste
            > in exactly the same way as the NN180, you just get a much higher
            > quality product that can then also be upgraded to a full spherical head.
            >
            > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
            > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
            > ha) resemblance to.
            >
            > Matt
            >
            > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
            >
            >>
            >> Hi Ken,
            >> The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
            >> of a
            >> camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
            >> Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of
            >> the
            >> camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
            >> needs of
            >> those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
            >> for use
            >> with all wide angle lenses.
            >> I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
            >> Cheers
            >> Bill
            >>
            >> Ken Warner-3 wrote:
            >> >
            >> > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
            >> > 360Precision.
            >> >
            >> > BUT!
            >> >
            >> > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
            >> straight up
            >> > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
            >> >
            >> > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
            >> >
            >> > Bill Bailey wrote:
            >> >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
            >> Nodal Ninja:
            >> >>
            >> >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
            >> the
            >> >> Nodal
            >> >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
            >> combinations which
            >> >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
            >> panos
            >> >> (such
            >> >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
            >> >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
            >> with
            >> >> long
            >> >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
            >> >>
            >> >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
            >> lens
            >> >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
            >> >> shooting.
            >> >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
            >> Sigma
            >> >> 4.5mm,
            >> >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
            >> making
            >> >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
            >> panos.
            >> >> Lenses
            >> >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
            >> cropped
            >> >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
            >> (to be
            >> >> released later) for making spherical panos.
            >> >>
            >> >>
            >> >> Here are the features.
            >> >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
            >> >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
            >> socket)
            >> >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
            >> and Nikon
            >> >> D3.
            >> >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
            >> >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
            >> works
            >> >> with
            >> >> other Nodal Ninja's.
            >> >> * 4 detent interval options
            >> >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
            >> 90, 60,
            >> >> 45,
            >> >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
            >> spherical
            >> >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
            >> >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
            >> >> * knob for locking rotation
            >> >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
            >> >> * small nadir footprint
            >> >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
            >> >> keeping
            >> >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
            >> that they
            >> >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
            >> >> * compact and light weight
            >> >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
            >> >> * 5kg loading supported
            >> >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
            >> >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
            >> >>
            >> >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
            >> >> Target price is US$179.95
            >> >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
            >> black.
            >> >>
            >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
            >> >>
            >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
            >> >>
            >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
            >> >>
            >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
            >> >>
            >> >> More information as it becomes available can be
            >> >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
            >> >>
            >> >
            >> >
            >>
            >> --
            >> View this message in context:
            >> http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
            >> Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >

            --
            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17024635.html
            Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          • ptgroup
            dalileis: at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP ! http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/ At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill
            Message 5 of 27 , May 2, 2008
              dalileis:
              at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
              http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/

              At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his customer.

              Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
              http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
              15

              I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
              head for a very reasonable price.


              ciao
              mike
              www.360de.de

              -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
              Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
              Auftrag von dalileis
              Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
              An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single
              row panoramic photography


              And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
              I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
              mean in this thread only and even here:

              http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385

              "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."

              Wow.

              Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
              for your poor company?

              "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
              Ninja user.

              Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
              Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
              and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
              any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
              altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.

              Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
              professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.

              All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
              also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
              panohead makers. Which would exclude...

              Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
              just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
              for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
              should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
              and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
              you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
              properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
              ways.

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Hi Matt,
              > Hope all's well in the UK.
              > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We
              > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
              from people
              > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
              > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
              lens
              > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
              in this
              > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the plastic is
              > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type systems (and
              > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
              lens mount
              > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
              camera
              > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
              tripod with
              > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
              lenses have
              > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
              >
              > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
              occurred to
              > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
              configuration of
              > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
              This is in
              > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
              opted
              > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
              disclaimer.
              > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
              and in
              > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local authorized
              > camera dealer and ask.
              >
              > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
              > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we send to
              > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
              send them
              > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
              >
              > All the best
              > Bill




              No virus found in this outgoing message.
              Checked by AVG.
              Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 02.05.2008
              16:34


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • dalileis
              Hi Mike I guess you´re kidding in which case :o) However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of marketing and trade in their Nodal
              Message 6 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                Hi Mike

                I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)

                However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                other product.

                What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                AND quality AND the great support.

                360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                me, and I know I am not the only one.

                In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                >
                > dalileis:
                > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                >
                > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                customer.
                >
                > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                >
                http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                > 15
                >
                > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                > head for a very reasonable price.
                >
                >
                > ciao
                > mike
                > www.360de.de
                >
                > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                > Auftrag von dalileis
                > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                single
                > row panoramic photography
                >
                >
                > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                > mean in this thread only and even here:
                >
                > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                >
                > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                >
                > Wow.
                >
                > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                > for your poor company?
                >
                > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                > Ninja user.
                >
                > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                >
                > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                >
                > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                >
                > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                > ways.
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Hi Matt,
                > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                clear. We
                > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                > from people
                > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                > lens
                > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                > in this
                > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                plastic is
                > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                systems (and
                > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                > lens mount
                > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                > camera
                > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                > tripod with
                > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                > lenses have
                > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                > >
                > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                > occurred to
                > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                > configuration of
                > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                > This is in
                > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                > opted
                > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                > disclaimer.
                > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                > and in
                > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                authorized
                > > camera dealer and ask.
                > >
                > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                send to
                > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                > send them
                > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                > >
                > > All the best
                > > Bill
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                > Checked by AVG.
                > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                02.05.2008
                > 16:34
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • ptgroup
                dalileis: of course I am !!!!!! What did you expect after the all in this thread ???? And IF - I would try to trad my stuff in at Bills NN store. ciao mike
                Message 7 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                  dalileis:
                  of course I am !!!!!!
                  What did you expect after the all in this thread ????

                  And "IF" - I would try to trad my stuff in at Bills NN store.
                  ciao
                  mike
                  www.360de.de

                  -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                  Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                  Auftrag von dalileis
                  Gesendet: Samstag, 3. Mai 2008 00:14
                  An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single
                  row panoramic photography


                  Hi Mike

                  I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)

                  However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                  marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                  other product.

                  What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                  professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                  AND quality AND the great support.

                  360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                  it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                  me, and I know I am not the only one.

                  In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > dalileis:
                  > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                  > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                  >
                  > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                  customer.
                  >
                  > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                  >
                  http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post1
                  70
                  > 15
                  >
                  > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                  > head for a very reasonable price.
                  >
                  >
                  > ciao
                  > mike
                  > www.360de.de
                  >
                  > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                  > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                  > Auftrag von dalileis
                  > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                  > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                  single
                  > row panoramic photography
                  >
                  >
                  > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                  > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                  > mean in this thread only and even here:
                  >
                  > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                  >
                  > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                  >
                  > Wow.
                  >
                  > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                  > for your poor company?
                  >
                  > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                  > Ninja user.
                  >
                  > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                  > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                  > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                  > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                  > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                  >
                  > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                  > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                  >
                  > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                  > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                  > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                  >
                  > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                  > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                  > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                  > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                  > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                  > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                  > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                  > ways.
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Matt,
                  > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                  > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                  clear. We
                  > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                  > from people
                  > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                  > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                  > lens
                  > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                  > in this
                  > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                  plastic is
                  > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                  systems (and
                  > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                  > lens mount
                  > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                  > camera
                  > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                  > tripod with
                  > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                  > lenses have
                  > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                  > >
                  > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                  > occurred to
                  > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                  > configuration of
                  > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                  > This is in
                  > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                  > opted
                  > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                  > disclaimer.
                  > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                  > and in
                  > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                  authorized
                  > > camera dealer and ask.
                  > >
                  > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                  > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                  send to
                  > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                  > send them
                  > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                  > >
                  > > All the best
                  > > Bill
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  > Checked by AVG.
                  > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                  02.05.2008
                  > 16:34
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >




                  No virus found in this outgoing message.
                  Checked by AVG.
                  Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 02.05.2008
                  16:34


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Stuart Milne
                  Dalileis, ... Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew s. I do not attempt to put words into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy. ... An Inference of 360P
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                    Dalileis,

                    >"Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja".
                    Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew's. I do not attempt to put words into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.

                    >Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or Matthew?
                    An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful.*

                    >Testimonials can be altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                    Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular concerns over our bona-fide testimonials.

                    A public apology would be appreciated, although judging by your demeanor to date, I shan't expect it to be forthcoming.

                    Also, whilst I would have preferred Bill to have contacted me privately with any potential concerns he had over our design, what is done is done. I think Bill knows I'm a fan of his, he is a standup no-nonsense guy with a passion for panos. We can all do with more like him. My background is in Engineering, and I am 100% confident in my design. Ultimately from a torque&loading perspective on the lens mount it is identical to a telephoto lens mount system, which nikon sell and recommend in their lens instruction manuals.

                    To be honest, I had hoped to just let this lie as I've been drawn into spats on this list in the past and quite frankly I'm tired of them. Ultimately it just makes everyone look silly and there are no winners. Let's let the products and outputs speak for themselves.

                    Kindest,

                    Stu@360P

                    *If I misunderstand your comment, and you meant to say that you believe that Bill would use the money more effectively than 360P, then that may well be. 1/2 our profits we spend on beer, go-karting, and games consoles. The other 1/2 we just waste!




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bill Bailey
                    Hey guys, We really appreciate your support and it s humbling. I do not mean to create any waves between vendors and we do respect our competition regardless.
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                      Hey guys,
                      We really appreciate your support and it's humbling. I do not mean to create
                      any waves between vendors and we do respect our competition regardless. But
                      more importantly we are customer driven.
                      We are a small company and strive to build lasting relationships with our
                      customers with hopes they might one day return to buy again. You spend $200
                      on an item it's reassuring to know you have people behind you ready to
                      assist should a problem arise. Our testimonials and NN forum posts will back
                      us and you can simply ask around.
                      Anyone can build a better widget (hey - NN widget? hmm ;-) - but it took 4
                      years to build a company that humbly prides itself on a foundation of hard
                      earned, old school, customer trust.
                      Many thanks
                      Bill



                      dalileis-3 wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Mike
                      >
                      > I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)
                      >
                      > However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                      > marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                      > other product.
                      >
                      > What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                      > professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                      > AND quality AND the great support.
                      >
                      > 360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                      > it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                      > me, and I know I am not the only one.
                      >
                      > In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> dalileis:
                      >> at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                      >> http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                      >>
                      >> At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                      > customer.
                      >>
                      >> Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                      >>
                      > http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                      >> 15
                      >>
                      >> I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                      >> head for a very reasonable price.
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> ciao
                      >> mike
                      >> www.360de.de
                      >>
                      >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                      >> Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                      >> Auftrag von dalileis
                      >> Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                      >> An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                      > single
                      >> row panoramic photography
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                      >> I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                      >> mean in this thread only and even here:
                      >>
                      >> http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                      >>
                      >> "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                      >>
                      >> Wow.
                      >>
                      >> Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                      >> for your poor company?
                      >>
                      >> "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                      >> Ninja user.
                      >>
                      >> Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                      >> Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                      >> and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                      >> any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                      >> altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                      >>
                      >> Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                      >> professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                      >>
                      >> All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                      >> also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                      >> panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                      >>
                      >> Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                      >> just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                      >> for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                      >> should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                      >> and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                      >> you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                      >> properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                      >> ways.
                      >>
                      >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                      >> >
                      >> >
                      >> > Hi Matt,
                      >> > Hope all's well in the UK.
                      >> > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                      > clear. We
                      >> > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                      >> from people
                      >> > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                      >> > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                      >> lens
                      >> > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                      >> in this
                      >> > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                      > plastic is
                      >> > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                      > systems (and
                      >> > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                      >> lens mount
                      >> > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                      >> camera
                      >> > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                      >> tripod with
                      >> > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                      >> lenses have
                      >> > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                      >> >
                      >> > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                      >> occurred to
                      >> > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                      >> configuration of
                      >> > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                      >> This is in
                      >> > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                      >> opted
                      >> > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                      >> disclaimer.
                      >> > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                      >> and in
                      >> > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                      > authorized
                      >> > camera dealer and ask.
                      >> >
                      >> > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                      >> > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                      > send to
                      >> > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                      >> send them
                      >> > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                      >> >
                      >> > All the best
                      >> > Bill
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
                      >> Checked by AVG.
                      >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                      > 02.05.2008
                      >> 16:34
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                      --
                      View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17029252.html
                      Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                    • dalileis
                      An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful. Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular concerns over our bona-fide
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                        "An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful."

                        "Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular
                        concerns over our bona-fide testimonials."


                        Stu, those are your words, not mine. I do not attempt to put words
                        into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.


                        Kindest,

                        Semantic Ninja






                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Milne" <stuart@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dalileis,
                        >
                        > >"Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja".
                        > Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew's. I do not attempt to put words
                        into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.
                        >
                        > >Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                        Matthew?
                        > An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful.*
                        >
                        > >Testimonials can be altered, remember the method being used here
                        and elsewhere.
                        > Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular
                        concerns over our bona-fide testimonials.
                        >
                        > A public apology would be appreciated, although judging by your
                        demeanor to date, I shan't expect it to be forthcoming.
                        >
                        > Also, whilst I would have preferred Bill to have contacted me
                        privately with any potential concerns he had over our design, what is
                        done is done. I think Bill knows I'm a fan of his, he is a standup
                        no-nonsense guy with a passion for panos. We can all do with more like
                        him. My background is in Engineering, and I am 100% confident in my
                        design. Ultimately from a torque&loading perspective on the lens mount
                        it is identical to a telephoto lens mount system, which nikon sell and
                        recommend in their lens instruction manuals.
                        >
                        > To be honest, I had hoped to just let this lie as I've been drawn
                        into spats on this list in the past and quite frankly I'm tired of
                        them. Ultimately it just makes everyone look silly and there are no
                        winners. Let's let the products and outputs speak for themselves.
                        >
                        > Kindest,
                        >
                        > Stu@360P
                        >
                        > *If I misunderstand your comment, and you meant to say that you
                        believe that Bill would use the money more effectively than 360P, then
                        that may well be. 1/2 our profits we spend on beer, go-karting, and
                        games consoles. The other 1/2 we just waste!
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Andrew Crawford
                        ... You mean something like this? http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/ I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few minutes and,
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                          Ken Warner wrote:
                          > While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                          > I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                          > rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                          > over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                          > around the nodal point easily.

                          You mean something like this?

                          http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/

                          I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                          minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                          covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                          installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                          spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                          particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm fisheye).

                          Andrew Crawford
                        • Matthew Rogers
                          ... What are you talking about, I get asked all the time if we take trade- ins and on the rare occasion we do. There s absolutely nothing wrong with offering a
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                            >
                            > I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)
                            >
                            > However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                            > marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                            > other product.
                            >

                            What are you talking about, I get asked all the time if we take trade-
                            ins and on the rare occasion we do. There's absolutely nothing wrong
                            with offering a trade-in, Nodal Ninja buy back pano-heads. Lot's of
                            industries offer trade-ins. Maybe you didn’t realise you can trade-in
                            your old car and get money off a new one :) It's not as though we're
                            poaching email addresses from email lists and forums and spamming
                            people. We were 100% honest and upfront about the deal. And some
                            people have already responded in excitement to the offer.

                            What you also may not realise is that a large percentage of our
                            customers upgrade from other panoheads. Quite often they just throw
                            the old in the back of the cupboard or flog it on ebay. I know I still
                            have three old Kaidan heads rumbling around somewhere.

                            We're actually going to set-up a programme where-by students can apply
                            for the panoheads free of charge on a case by case basis.

                            We've now sold well over 1,000 panoheads and I've only ever had one
                            customer tell me that they thought that the head was over-priced.
                            Until you've actually seen one and used it day to day you have no
                            right to comment. You can say what you want but the Absolute and
                            Adjuste are the only panoheads available that are accurate enough to
                            offer true batch stitching.

                            If you run a business shooting panoramas and not just as a hobby then
                            you might be able to actually see the benefit. We get emails from
                            customers all the time telling us that without the 360Precision
                            Absolute there's no way they could shoot and produce the amount of
                            content they can in such short timeframes. And in some cases, without
                            our products their projects would never be viable.

                            > What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                            > professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                            > AND quality AND the great support.
                            >
                            It was tongue in cheek, you need to chill out and not take everything
                            so seriously. But can you use an Hasselblad H3D with a 150mm lens or a
                            1DsMK3 with a 500mm lens on a Nodal Ninja, probably not and it's not
                            designed to handle it. Again, unless you've actually seen or used our
                            products you don't know what you're talking about.
                            > 360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                            > it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                            > me, and I know I am not the only one.
                            >
                            How is offering a trade-in any different than offering to buy back a
                            product ? It's actually more fair to the buyer because we're not
                            restricting the offer to just trade-ins on old 360Precision heads.
                            >
                            >
                            > In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > dalileis:
                            > > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                            > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                            > >
                            > > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                            > customer.
                            > >
                            > > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                            > >
                            > http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                            > > 15
                            > >
                            > > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed
                            > a nice
                            > > head for a very reasonable price.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > ciao
                            > > mike
                            > > www.360de.de
                            > >
                            > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                            > > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                            > > Auftrag von dalileis
                            > > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                            > > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            > > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                            > single
                            > > row panoramic photography
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon,
                            > as
                            > > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                            > > mean in this thread only and even here:
                            > >
                            > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                            > >
                            > > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                            > >
                            > > Wow.
                            > >
                            > > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                            > > for your poor company?
                            > >
                            > > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                            > > Ninja user.
                            > >
                            > > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                            > > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                            > > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in
                            > case
                            > > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                            > > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                            > >
                            > > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                            > > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                            > >
                            > > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                            > > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-
                            > headed
                            > > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                            > >
                            > > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their
                            > marketing. I
                            > > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking
                            > bad
                            > > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                            > > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do
                            > you
                            > > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                            > > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                            > > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked
                            > marketing
                            > > ways.
                            > >
                            > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > > > Hi Matt,
                            > > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                            > > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                            > clear. We
                            > > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                            > > from people
                            > > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                            > > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on
                            > the
                            > > lens
                            > > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be
                            > used
                            > > in this
                            > > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                            > plastic is
                            > > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                            > systems (and
                            > > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                            > > lens mount
                            > > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on
                            > the
                            > > camera
                            > > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                            > > tripod with
                            > > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                            > > lenses have
                            > > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                            > > >
                            > > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                            > > occurred to
                            > > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                            > > configuration of
                            > > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                            > > This is in
                            > > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So
                            > we
                            > > opted
                            > > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                            > > disclaimer.
                            > > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or
                            > otherwise,
                            > > and in
                            > > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                            > authorized
                            > > > camera dealer and ask.
                            > > >
                            > > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                            > > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                            > send to
                            > > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                            > > send them
                            > > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                            > > >
                            > > > All the best
                            > > > Bill
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                            > > Checked by AVG.
                            > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                            > 02.05.2008
                            > > 16:34
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Ken Warner
                            Yes, something like that. I really don t want to carry more weight around than necessary. Any of the commercial pano heads would do but in most cases they
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                              Yes, something like that. I really don't want to carry more
                              weight around than necessary. Any of the commercial
                              pano heads would do but in most cases they are over kill
                              because they have to work for a whole bunch of different
                              cameras. So far, the NN series is closest to what I want.

                              I keep waiting for the right auction on eBay.

                              I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                              Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                              Andrew Crawford wrote:
                              > Ken Warner wrote:
                              >
                              >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                              >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                              >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                              >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                              >>around the nodal point easily.
                              >
                              >
                              > You mean something like this?
                              >
                              > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                              >
                              > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                              > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                              > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                              > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                              > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                              > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm fisheye).
                              >
                              > Andrew Crawford
                              >
                            • Daniel Reetz
                              ... I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it after I saw
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                > I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                > Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                                I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it
                                was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it
                                after I saw Nick Fan gracefully responding to criticism in the Realviz
                                Stitcher forums. I was impressed with his response and his willingness
                                to help with my problems with the Russian postal system.

                                When I returned to the US and had the opportunity to spend $$$ on a
                                new system, I ended up making my own. I bought a mill, mini-lathe and
                                rotary table and machined a very precise rotator to my own
                                specifications. Here's a development shot of it:

                                http://danreetz.com/ongoing/2008_daniel_reetz__0023_camera_rotator.jpg

                                To each their own. Looking forward to the 180.
                                DR

                                >
                                >
                                > Andrew Crawford wrote:
                                > > Ken Warner wrote:
                                > >
                                > >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                > >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                > >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                > >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                > >>around the nodal point easily.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > You mean something like this?
                                > >
                                > > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                                > >
                                > > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                > > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                > > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                > > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                > > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                > > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm
                                > fisheye).
                                > >
                                > > Andrew Crawford
                                > >
                                >
                              • Ken Warner
                                Beautiful work! What great fun it would be to build my own pano head. From what I ve seen on the net, I agree with your views on NN and the positive attitudes
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                  Beautiful work! What great fun it would be to build
                                  my own pano head.

                                  From what I've seen on the net, I agree with your
                                  views on NN and the positive attitudes of the
                                  guys there.

                                  I'm just trying to make the right choices for myself.


                                  Daniel Reetz wrote:
                                  >> I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                  >> Living on a budget and without tools sucks...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it
                                  > was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it
                                  > after I saw Nick Fan gracefully responding to criticism in the Realviz
                                  > Stitcher forums. I was impressed with his response and his willingness
                                  > to help with my problems with the Russian postal system.
                                  >
                                  > When I returned to the US and had the opportunity to spend $$$ on a
                                  > new system, I ended up making my own. I bought a mill, mini-lathe and
                                  > rotary table and machined a very precise rotator to my own
                                  > specifications. Here's a development shot of it:
                                  >
                                  > http://danreetz.com/ongoing/2008_daniel_reetz__0023_camera_rotator.jpg
                                  >
                                  > To each their own. Looking forward to the 180.
                                  > DR
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> Andrew Crawford wrote:
                                  >> > Ken Warner wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                  >> >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                  >> >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                  >> >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                  >> >>around the nodal point easily.
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > You mean something like this?
                                  >> >
                                  >> > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                                  >> >
                                  >> > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                  >> > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                  >> > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                  >> > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                  >> > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                  >> > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm
                                  >>fisheye).
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Andrew Crawford
                                  >> >
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Bill Bailey
                                  Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators of PanoToolsNG. We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                    Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators
                                    of PanoToolsNG.
                                    We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an unprofessional
                                    tone and sincerely apologize for this.
                                    I believe it best we simply step aside and we'll refrain from using this
                                    platform to announce future product release.
                                    We would kindly ask folks to stop by our website or visit our new NN forum
                                    from time to time as we have many new products on the horizon.

                                    All the best.

                                    Bill Bailey
                                    Director Global Sales and Marketing
                                    www.NodalNinja.com
                                    --
                                    View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17035741.html
                                    Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                  • Yuval Levy
                                    It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider. AFAIK nothing
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                      It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                      this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.

                                      AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                      announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                      manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.

                                      Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                      IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                      attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                      NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                      would have been enough.

                                      Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                      that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                      barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.

                                      Please stay.
                                      Yuv

                                      Bill Bailey wrote:
                                      > Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators
                                      > of PanoToolsNG.
                                      > We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an unprofessional
                                      > tone and sincerely apologize for this.
                                      > I believe it best we simply step aside and we'll refrain from using this
                                      > platform to announce future product release.
                                      > We would kindly ask folks to stop by our website or visit our new NN forum
                                      > from time to time as we have many new products on the horizon.
                                      >
                                      > All the best.
                                      >
                                      > Bill Bailey
                                      > Director Global Sales and Marketing
                                      > www.NodalNinja.com
                                    • Keith Martin
                                      I concur 100% with Yuval s words, from the request that you and other hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here, through to the
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                        I concur 100% with Yuval's words, from the request that you and other
                                        hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here,
                                        through to the personal reluctance to use web-based forums. :-)

                                        k


                                        Sometime around 3/5/08 (at 14:13 -0400) Yuval Levy said:

                                        >It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                        >this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.
                                        >
                                        >AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                        >announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                        >manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.
                                        >
                                        >Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                        >IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                        >attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                        >NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                        >would have been enough.
                                        >
                                        >Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                        >that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                        >barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.
                                        >
                                        >Please stay.
                                        >Yuv
                                      • Milko K. Amorth
                                        Ditto on all points. Well put, Yuv. Nothing wrong with mods showing the flag publicly. Sometimes people do not realize the tone in their writing. Its an
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                          Ditto on all points.
                                          Well put, Yuv.
                                          Nothing wrong with mods showing the flag publicly. Sometimes people do
                                          not realize the 'tone' in their writing. Its an international list after
                                          all.

                                          Cheers, Milko

                                          --
                                          Milko K.Amorth
                                          ph:604.561.5101
                                          fx:604.909.5125

                                          www.VRCanada.ca
                                          360° Immersive Imaging
                                          Skype: VRdundee

                                          Check out the new release of Lucid Flash Viewer in HD!
                                        • AYRTON
                                          ... idem it s the same with me both subjects I hate forums :-( I like to receive new peoducts infos :-) Abcs AYRTON ... -- ... + 55 21 9982 6313
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                            On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

                                            > I concur 100% with Yuval's words, from the request that you and other
                                            > hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here,
                                            > through to the personal reluctance to use web-based forums. :-)


                                            idem
                                            it's the same with me
                                            both subjects
                                            I hate forums :-(
                                            I like to receive new peoducts infos :-)

                                            Abcs
                                            AYRTON



                                            >
                                            > k
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sometime around 3/5/08 (at 14:13 -0400) Yuval Levy said:
                                            >
                                            > >It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                            > >this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.
                                            > >
                                            > >AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                            > >announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                            > >manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.
                                            > >
                                            > >Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                            > >IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                            > >attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                            > >NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                            > >would have been enough.
                                            > >
                                            > >Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                            > >that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                            > >barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.
                                            > >
                                            > >Please stay.
                                            > >Yuv
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            --
                                            ------------
                                            | A Y R |
                                            | T O N |
                                            ------------

                                            + 55 21 9982 6313

                                            http://ayrton360.com
                                            http://rio.360cities.net
                                            http://vrfolio.com
                                            http://ayrton.com


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Andrew Crawford
                                            ... I do understand. FWIW, the local steel place charged me about $30 USD for half an hour of their time and a little piece of steel. I probably spent another
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 4, 2008
                                              Ken Warner wrote:
                                              > I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                              > Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                                              I do understand.

                                              FWIW, the local steel place charged me about $30 USD for half an hour of
                                              their time and a little piece of steel. I probably spent another couple
                                              hours adding 50 cents worth of cork, a fraction of a $4 can of clear
                                              coat, and 25 cents worth of screws.

                                              Andrew Crawford
                                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.