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[PanoToolsNG] ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single row panoramic photography

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  • Bill Bailey
    This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal Ninja: Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line - the Nodal Ninja 180
    Message 1 of 27 , May 1, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal Ninja:

      Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line - the Nodal
      Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens combinations which
      NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical panos (such
      as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
      converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro with long
      prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.

      NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/lens
      combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row shooting.
      They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the Sigma 4.5mm,
      sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for making
      spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical panos. Lenses
      such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on cropped
      sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter (to be
      released later) for making spherical panos.


      Here are the features.
      * universal for all circular fisheye lens
      From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod socket)
      with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series and Nikon
      D3.
      * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
      Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also works with
      other Nodal Ninja's.
      * 4 detent interval options
      Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops / 90, 60, 45,
      36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making spherical
      panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
      * detent interval can be changed in seconds
      * knob for locking rotation
      Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
      * small nadir footprint
      Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while keeping
      the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means that they
      will never appear in the spherical panos.
      * compact and light weight
      Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
      * 5kg loading supported
      Supports all cameras up to medium format.
      * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.

      Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
      Target price is US$179.95
      Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be black.

      http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg

      http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg

      http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg

      http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg

      More information as it becomes available can be
      http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here

      --
      View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p16993332.html
      Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
    • Ken Warner
      That s almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from 360Precision. BUT! You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot straight up
      Message 2 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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        That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from 360Precision.

        BUT!

        You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot straight up
        and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.

        The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....

        Bill Bailey wrote:
        > This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal Ninja:
        >
        > Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line - the Nodal
        > Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens combinations which
        > NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical panos (such
        > as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
        > converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro with long
        > prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
        >
        > NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/lens
        > combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row shooting.
        > They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the Sigma 4.5mm,
        > sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for making
        > spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical panos. Lenses
        > such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on cropped
        > sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter (to be
        > released later) for making spherical panos.
        >
        >
        > Here are the features.
        > * universal for all circular fisheye lens
        >>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod socket)
        > with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series and Nikon
        > D3.
        > * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
        > Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also works with
        > other Nodal Ninja's.
        > * 4 detent interval options
        > Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops / 90, 60, 45,
        > 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making spherical
        > panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
        > * detent interval can be changed in seconds
        > * knob for locking rotation
        > Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
        > * small nadir footprint
        > Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while keeping
        > the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means that they
        > will never appear in the spherical panos.
        > * compact and light weight
        > Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
        > * 5kg loading supported
        > Supports all cameras up to medium format.
        > * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
        >
        > Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
        > Target price is US$179.95
        > Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be black.
        >
        > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
        >
        > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
        >
        > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
        >
        > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
        >
        > More information as it becomes available can be
        > http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
        >
      • Matthew Rogers
        But that s what the Adjuste is for. We will look into producing an Atome Pro but the price will definitely rise. ... [Non-text portions of this message have
        Message 3 of 27 , May 1, 2008
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          But that's what the Adjuste is for. We will look into producing an
          Atome Pro but the price will definitely rise.

          On 1 May 2008, at 20:28, Ken Warner wrote:

          > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
          > 360Precision.
          >
          > BUT!
          >
          > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
          > straight up
          > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
          >
          > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
          >
          > Bill Bailey wrote:
          > > This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal
          > Ninja:
          > >
          > > Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
          > the Nodal
          > > Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens combinations
          > which
          > > NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
          > panos (such
          > > as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
          > > converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
          > with long
          > > prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
          > >
          > > NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
          > lens
          > > combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
          > shooting.
          > > They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
          > Sigma 4.5mm,
          > > sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
          > making
          > > spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
          > panos. Lenses
          > > such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
          > cropped
          > > sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
          > (to be
          > > released later) for making spherical panos.
          > >
          > >
          > > Here are the features.
          > > * universal for all circular fisheye lens
          > >>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
          > socket)
          > > with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
          > and Nikon
          > > D3.
          > > * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
          > > Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
          > works with
          > > other Nodal Ninja's.
          > > * 4 detent interval options
          > > Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops / 90,
          > 60, 45,
          > > 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
          > spherical
          > > panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
          > > * detent interval can be changed in seconds
          > > * knob for locking rotation
          > > Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
          > > * small nadir footprint
          > > Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
          > keeping
          > > the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
          > that they
          > > will never appear in the spherical panos.
          > > * compact and light weight
          > > Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
          > > * 5kg loading supported
          > > Supports all cameras up to medium format.
          > > * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
          > >
          > > Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
          > > Target price is US$179.95
          > > Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
          > black.
          > >
          > > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
          > >
          > > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
          > >
          > > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
          > >
          > > http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
          > >
          > > More information as it becomes available can be
          > > http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
          > >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Bill Bailey
          Hi Ken, The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell of a camera lens and we re not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets. Because the
          Message 4 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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            Hi Ken,
            The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell of a
            camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
            Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of the
            camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the needs of
            those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing for use
            with all wide angle lenses.
            I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
            Cheers
            Bill


            Ken Warner-3 wrote:
            >
            > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
            > 360Precision.
            >
            > BUT!
            >
            > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot straight up
            > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
            >
            > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
            >
            > Bill Bailey wrote:
            >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal Ninja:
            >>
            >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line - the
            >> Nodal
            >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens combinations which
            >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical panos
            >> (such
            >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
            >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro with
            >> long
            >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
            >>
            >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/lens
            >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
            >> shooting.
            >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the Sigma
            >> 4.5mm,
            >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for making
            >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical panos.
            >> Lenses
            >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on cropped
            >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter (to be
            >> released later) for making spherical panos.
            >>
            >>
            >> Here are the features.
            >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
            >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
            socket)
            >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series and Nikon
            >> D3.
            >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
            >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also works
            >> with
            >> other Nodal Ninja's.
            >> * 4 detent interval options
            >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops / 90, 60,
            >> 45,
            >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making spherical
            >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
            >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
            >> * knob for locking rotation
            >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
            >> * small nadir footprint
            >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
            >> keeping
            >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means that they
            >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
            >> * compact and light weight
            >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
            >> * 5kg loading supported
            >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
            >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
            >>
            >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
            >> Target price is US$179.95
            >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be black.
            >>
            >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
            >>
            >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
            >>
            >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
            >>
            >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
            >>
            >> More information as it becomes available can be
            >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
            >>
            >
            >

            --
            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
            Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          • Ken Warner
            While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All I m going to say is that my monopod doesn t need a rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens over
            Message 5 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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              While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
              I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
              rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
              over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
              around the nodal point easily.

              Bill Bailey wrote:
              > Hi Ken,
              > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell of a
              > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
              > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of the
              > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the needs of
              > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing for use
              > with all wide angle lenses.
              > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
              > Cheers
              > Bill
              >
              >
              > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
              >
              >>That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
              >>360Precision.
              >>
              >>BUT!
              >>
              >>You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot straight up
              >>and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
              >>
              >>The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
              >>
              >>Bill Bailey wrote:
              >>
              >>>This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of Nodal Ninja:
              >>>
              >>>Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line - the
              >>>Nodal
              >>>Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens combinations which
              >>>NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical panos
              >>>(such
              >>>as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
              >>>converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro with
              >>>long
              >>>prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
              >>>
              >>>NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/lens
              >>>combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
              >>>shooting.
              >>>They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the Sigma
              >>>4.5mm,
              >>>sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for making
              >>>spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical panos.
              >>>Lenses
              >>>such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on cropped
              >>>sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter (to be
              >>>released later) for making spherical panos.
              >>>
              >>>
              >>>Here are the features.
              >>>* universal for all circular fisheye lens
              >>>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
              >
              > socket)
              >
              >>>with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series and Nikon
              >>>D3.
              >>>* advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
              >>>Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also works
              >>>with
              >>>other Nodal Ninja's.
              >>>* 4 detent interval options
              >>>Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops / 90, 60,
              >>>45,
              >>>36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making spherical
              >>>panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
              >>>* detent interval can be changed in seconds
              >>>* knob for locking rotation
              >>>Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
              >>>* small nadir footprint
              >>>Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
              >>>keeping
              >>>the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means that they
              >>>will never appear in the spherical panos.
              >>>* compact and light weight
              >>>Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
              >>>* 5kg loading supported
              >>>Supports all cameras up to medium format.
              >>>* more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
              >>>
              >>>Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
              >>>Target price is US$179.95
              >>>Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be black.
              >>>
              >>>http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
              >>>
              >>>http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
              >>>
              >>>http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
              >>>
              >>>http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
              >>>
              >>>More information as it becomes available can be
              >>>http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
              >>>
              >>
              >>
              >
            • Matthew Rogers
              There s nothing sensitive about the part of the lens the Atome clasp attaches to. Plus, you can already use the base section of an Adjuste in exactly the same
              Message 6 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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                There's nothing sensitive about the part of the lens the Atome clasp
                attaches to. Plus, you can already use the base section of an Adjuste
                in exactly the same way as the NN180, you just get a much higher
                quality product that can then also be upgraded to a full spherical head.

                Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
                Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
                ha) resemblance to.

                Matt

                On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:

                >
                > Hi Ken,
                > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
                > of a
                > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
                > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of
                > the
                > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
                > needs of
                > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
                > for use
                > with all wide angle lenses.
                > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
                > Cheers
                > Bill
                >
                > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
                > >
                > > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
                > > 360Precision.
                > >
                > > BUT!
                > >
                > > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
                > straight up
                > > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
                > >
                > > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
                > >
                > > Bill Bailey wrote:
                > >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
                > Nodal Ninja:
                > >>
                > >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
                > the
                > >> Nodal
                > >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
                > combinations which
                > >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
                > panos
                > >> (such
                > >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
                > >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
                > with
                > >> long
                > >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
                > >>
                > >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
                > lens
                > >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
                > >> shooting.
                > >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
                > Sigma
                > >> 4.5mm,
                > >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
                > making
                > >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
                > panos.
                > >> Lenses
                > >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
                > cropped
                > >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
                > (to be
                > >> released later) for making spherical panos.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >> Here are the features.
                > >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
                > >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
                > socket)
                > >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
                > and Nikon
                > >> D3.
                > >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
                > >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
                > works
                > >> with
                > >> other Nodal Ninja's.
                > >> * 4 detent interval options
                > >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
                > 90, 60,
                > >> 45,
                > >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
                > spherical
                > >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
                > >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
                > >> * knob for locking rotation
                > >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
                > >> * small nadir footprint
                > >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
                > >> keeping
                > >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
                > that they
                > >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
                > >> * compact and light weight
                > >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
                > >> * 5kg loading supported
                > >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
                > >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
                > >>
                > >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
                > >> Target price is US$179.95
                > >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
                > black.
                > >>
                > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
                > >>
                > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
                > >>
                > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
                > >>
                > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
                > >>
                > >> More information as it becomes available can be
                > >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                >
                > --
                > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
                > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                >
                >
                >



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Daniel Reetz
                ... The nature of the problem means it s no surprise that many of these rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal? No-one is dropping into your
                Message 7 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
                  > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
                  > ha) resemblance to.

                  The nature of the problem means it's no surprise that many of these
                  rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal?

                  No-one is dropping into your product announcement thread with
                  smart-aleck comments. My decision not to purchase 360Precision
                  products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
                  online behavior.

                  DR

                  > Matt
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Ken,
                  > > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
                  > > of a
                  > > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
                  > > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of
                  > > the
                  > > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
                  > > needs of
                  > > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
                  > > for use
                  > > with all wide angle lenses.
                  > > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
                  > > Cheers
                  > > Bill
                  > >
                  > > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
                  > > > 360Precision.
                  > > >
                  > > > BUT!
                  > > >
                  > > > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
                  > > straight up
                  > > > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
                  > > >
                  > > > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
                  > > >
                  > > > Bill Bailey wrote:
                  > > >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
                  > > Nodal Ninja:
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
                  > > the
                  > > >> Nodal
                  > > >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
                  > > combinations which
                  > > >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
                  > > panos
                  > > >> (such
                  > > >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
                  > > >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
                  > > with
                  > > >> long
                  > > >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
                  > > lens
                  > > >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
                  > > >> shooting.
                  > > >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
                  > > Sigma
                  > > >> 4.5mm,
                  > > >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
                  > > making
                  > > >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
                  > > panos.
                  > > >> Lenses
                  > > >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
                  > > cropped
                  > > >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
                  > > (to be
                  > > >> released later) for making spherical panos.
                  > > >>
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Here are the features.
                  > > >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
                  > > >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
                  > > socket)
                  > > >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
                  > > and Nikon
                  > > >> D3.
                  > > >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
                  > > >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
                  > > works
                  > > >> with
                  > > >> other Nodal Ninja's.
                  > > >> * 4 detent interval options
                  > > >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
                  > > 90, 60,
                  > > >> 45,
                  > > >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
                  > > spherical
                  > > >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
                  > > >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
                  > > >> * knob for locking rotation
                  > > >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
                  > > >> * small nadir footprint
                  > > >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
                  > > >> keeping
                  > > >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
                  > > that they
                  > > >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
                  > > >> * compact and light weight
                  > > >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
                  > > >> * 5kg loading supported
                  > > >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
                  > > >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
                  > > >> Target price is US$179.95
                  > > >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
                  > > black.
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
                  > > >>
                  > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
                  > > >>
                  > > >> More information as it becomes available can be
                  > > >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
                  > > >>
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > View this message in context:
                  > http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
                  > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                • Keith Martin
                  ... But (to misquote an old saying) don t end up cutting off your nose to spite someone else s face. Okay, that makes no sense in anatomical terms, but you get
                  Message 8 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Sometime around 2/5/08 (at 11:58 -0500) Daniel Reetz said:

                    >My decision not to purchase 360Precision
                    >products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
                    >online behavior.

                    But (to misquote an old saying) don't end up cutting off your nose to
                    spite someone else's face.

                    Okay, that makes no sense in anatomical terms, but you get my meaning I hope...

                    k
                  • Matthew Rogers
                    Yes but I didn t unnecessarily criticise their products without ever having seen or used one. Believe me I could spend all day doing so but I don t. ...
                    Message 9 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Yes but I didn't unnecessarily criticise their products without ever
                      having seen or used one. Believe me I could spend all day doing so but
                      I don't.

                      On 2 May 2008, at 17:58, Daniel Reetz wrote:

                      > > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
                      > > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
                      > > ha) resemblance to.
                      >
                      > The nature of the problem means it's no surprise that many of these
                      > rotators looks similar. Should it be square? Pentagonal?
                      >
                      > No-one is dropping into your product announcement thread with
                      > smart-aleck comments. My decision not to purchase 360Precision
                      > products (which I think are excellent) was in part based on your
                      > online behavior.
                      >
                      > DR
                      >
                      > > Matt
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
                      > >
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Ken,
                      > > > The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
                      > > > of a
                      > > > camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye
                      > brackets.
                      > > > Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by
                      > way of
                      > > > the
                      > > > camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
                      > > > needs of
                      > > > those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
                      > > > for use
                      > > > with all wide angle lenses.
                      > > > I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
                      > > > Cheers
                      > > > Bill
                      > > >
                      > > > Ken Warner-3 wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
                      > > > > 360Precision.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > BUT!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
                      > > > straight up
                      > > > > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Bill Bailey wrote:
                      > > > >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
                      > > > Nodal Ninja:
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product
                      > line -
                      > > > the
                      > > > >> Nodal
                      > > > >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
                      > > > combinations which
                      > > > >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot
                      > spherical
                      > > > panos
                      > > > >> (such
                      > > > >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
                      > > > >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185
                      > Pro
                      > > > with
                      > > > >> long
                      > > > >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain
                      > camera/
                      > > > lens
                      > > > >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-
                      > row
                      > > > >> shooting.
                      > > > >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
                      > > > Sigma
                      > > > >> 4.5mm,
                      > > > >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9)
                      > for
                      > > > making
                      > > > >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
                      > > > panos.
                      > > > >> Lenses
                      > > > >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma
                      > 8mm on
                      > > > cropped
                      > > > >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted
                      > adapter
                      > > > (to be
                      > > > >> released later) for making spherical panos.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Here are the features.
                      > > > >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
                      > > > >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset
                      > tripod
                      > > > socket)
                      > > > >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
                      > > > and Nikon
                      > > > >> D3.
                      > > > >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
                      > > > >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
                      > > > works
                      > > > >> with
                      > > > >> other Nodal Ninja's.
                      > > > >> * 4 detent interval options
                      > > > >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
                      > > > 90, 60,
                      > > > >> 45,
                      > > > >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
                      > > > spherical
                      > > > >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
                      > > > >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
                      > > > >> * knob for locking rotation
                      > > > >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
                      > > > >> * small nadir footprint
                      > > > >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability
                      > while
                      > > > >> keeping
                      > > > >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
                      > > > that they
                      > > > >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
                      > > > >> * compact and light weight
                      > > > >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
                      > > > >> * 5kg loading supported
                      > > > >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
                      > > > >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
                      > > > >> Target price is US$179.95
                      > > > >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
                      > > > black.
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >> More information as it becomes available can be
                      > > > >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
                      > > > >>
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > View this message in context:
                      > > http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
                      > > > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Bill Bailey
                      Hi Matt, Hope all s well in the UK. We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues
                      Message 10 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Matt,
                        Hope all's well in the UK.
                        We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We
                        contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise from people
                        using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                        They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the lens
                        mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used in this
                        fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the plastic is
                        obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type systems (and
                        there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the lens mount
                        area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the camera
                        while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the tripod with
                        a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long lenses have
                        tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.

                        We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage occurred to
                        the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a configuration of
                        this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty. This is in
                        the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we opted
                        for a different design. That said you might want to include a disclaimer.
                        Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise, and in
                        doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local authorized
                        camera dealer and ask.

                        You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                        (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we send to
                        Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we send them
                        your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)

                        All the best
                        Bill



                        Matthew Rogers-2 wrote:
                        >
                        > There's nothing sensitive about the part of the lens the Atome clasp
                        > attaches to. Plus, you can already use the base section of an Adjuste
                        > in exactly the same way as the NN180, you just get a much higher
                        > quality product that can then also be upgraded to a full spherical head.
                        >
                        > Also, I'm surprised you didn't call the Rotator D8 and D12 the Nodal
                        > Ninja D300N after the Manfrotto base it bears a slight (ha ha ha ha
                        > ha) resemblance to.
                        >
                        > Matt
                        >
                        > On 2 May 2008, at 17:11, Bill Bailey wrote:
                        >
                        >>
                        >> Hi Ken,
                        >> The NN180 does not mount or clamp onto the sensitive plastic shell
                        >> of a
                        >> camera lens and we're not trying to emulate other fisheye brackets.
                        >> Because the camera/lens will mount directly to the bracket by way of
                        >> the
                        >> camera tripod mount this allows for add-on adapters to meet the
                        >> needs of
                        >> those wanting partial tilt. This is also a universal head allowing
                        >> for use
                        >> with all wide angle lenses.
                        >> I might wipe the dust of my FC-E9 and give it go once released ;-)
                        >> Cheers
                        >> Bill
                        >>
                        >> Ken Warner-3 wrote:
                        >> >
                        >> > That's almost a completely good idea -- like the new Atome from
                        >> > 360Precision.
                        >> >
                        >> > BUT!
                        >> >
                        >> > You got to have a tilt axis. You have to have a way to shoot
                        >> straight up
                        >> > and down some 30-60 degrees. Not straight down but down a bit.
                        >> >
                        >> > The price and weight are perfect but you got to have tilt....
                        >> >
                        >> > Bill Bailey wrote:
                        >> >> This is direct from Nick Fan - the developer/manufacturer of
                        >> Nodal Ninja:
                        >> >>
                        >> >> Fanotec is proud to announce a new entry into the product line -
                        >> the
                        >> >> Nodal
                        >> >> Ninja 180 (NN180). The NN180 will support camera/lens
                        >> combinations which
                        >> >> NN3/5 do not support. They include gears for dual shot spherical
                        >> panos
                        >> >> (such
                        >> >> as Nikon FC-E8/E9 and the Sunex 5.6mm Fisheye) and very long
                        >> >> converter-camera combinations such as FC-E9/ Raynox DCR-CF185 Pro
                        >> with
                        >> >> long
                        >> >> prosumer or point and shoot Digital Cameras.
                        >> >>
                        >> >> NN180 is also intended to simplify pano taking for certain camera/
                        >> lens
                        >> >> combinations by allowing single row shooting instead of multi-row
                        >> >> shooting.
                        >> >> They include cameras with circular fisheye lenses (such as the
                        >> Sigma
                        >> >> 4.5mm,
                        >> >> sigma 8mm on full frame camera, Sunex 5.6mm, Nikon FC-E8/E9) for
                        >> making
                        >> >> spherical panos, and wide angle lenses for making cylindrical
                        >> panos.
                        >> >> Lenses
                        >> >> such as shaved Nikon 10.5mm on full frame sensor and Sigma 8mm on
                        >> cropped
                        >> >> sensor can be supported by using a L-bracket and slanted adapter
                        >> (to be
                        >> >> released later) for making spherical panos.
                        >> >>
                        >> >>
                        >> >> Here are the features.
                        >> >> * universal for all circular fisheye lens
                        >> >>>From compact digital cameras (T-adapter required for offset tripod
                        >> socket)
                        >> >> with FC-E8/E9 to big professional cameras like Canon 1Ds series
                        >> and Nikon
                        >> >> D3.
                        >> >> * advanced rotator design (Rotator D4).
                        >> >> Fully lubricated bearing for smooth rotation. Same rotator also
                        >> works
                        >> >> with
                        >> >> other Nodal Ninja's.
                        >> >> * 4 detent interval options
                        >> >> Complete set of 4 detent interval options (4, 6, 8, 10 stops /
                        >> 90, 60,
                        >> >> 45,
                        >> >> 36 degrees), suitable for most ultra wide angle lens for making
                        >> spherical
                        >> >> panos. By skipping, one gets 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10 stops.
                        >> >> * detent interval can be changed in seconds
                        >> >> * knob for locking rotation
                        >> >> Ideal for making HDR panos or in windy locations.
                        >> >> * small nadir footprint
                        >> >> Diameter of 54mm provides sufficient precision and stability while
                        >> >> keeping
                        >> >> the nadir footprint small. The unique placement of knobs means
                        >> that they
                        >> >> will never appear in the spherical panos.
                        >> >> * compact and light weight
                        >> >> Weight 500g. Much lighter than multi-row equivalents.
                        >> >> * 5kg loading supported
                        >> >> Supports all cameras up to medium format.
                        >> >> * more affordable than multi-row equivalents.
                        >> >>
                        >> >> Estimated time of availability is August/September 2008.
                        >> >> Target price is US$179.95
                        >> >> Images below reflect early prototype images - all parts will be
                        >> black.
                        >> >>
                        >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/2_NN180.jpg
                        >> >>
                        >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/3_NN180.jpg
                        >> >>
                        >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/4_NN180.jpg
                        >> >>
                        >> >> http://www.nabble.com/file/p16993332/1_RD4.jpg
                        >> >>
                        >> >> More information as it becomes available can be
                        >> >> http://nodalninja.com/forum/index.php?topic=92.0 found here
                        >> >>
                        >> >
                        >> >
                        >>
                        >> --
                        >> View this message in context:
                        >> http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17022726.html
                        >> Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >

                        --
                        View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17024635.html
                        Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                      • ptgroup
                        dalileis: at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP ! http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/ At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill
                        Message 11 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          dalileis:
                          at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                          http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/

                          At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his customer.

                          Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                          http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                          15

                          I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                          head for a very reasonable price.


                          ciao
                          mike
                          www.360de.de

                          -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                          Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                          Auftrag von dalileis
                          Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                          An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single
                          row panoramic photography


                          And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                          I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                          mean in this thread only and even here:

                          http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385

                          "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."

                          Wow.

                          Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                          for your poor company?

                          "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                          Ninja user.

                          Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                          Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                          and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                          any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                          altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.

                          Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                          professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.

                          All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                          also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                          panohead makers. Which would exclude...

                          Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                          just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                          for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                          should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                          and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                          you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                          properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                          ways.

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Matt,
                          > Hope all's well in the UK.
                          > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer clear. We
                          > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                          from people
                          > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                          > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                          lens
                          > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                          in this
                          > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the plastic is
                          > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type systems (and
                          > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                          lens mount
                          > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                          camera
                          > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                          tripod with
                          > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                          lenses have
                          > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                          >
                          > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                          occurred to
                          > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                          configuration of
                          > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                          This is in
                          > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                          opted
                          > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                          disclaimer.
                          > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                          and in
                          > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local authorized
                          > camera dealer and ask.
                          >
                          > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                          > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we send to
                          > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                          send them
                          > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                          >
                          > All the best
                          > Bill




                          No virus found in this outgoing message.
                          Checked by AVG.
                          Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 02.05.2008
                          16:34


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • dalileis
                          Hi Mike I guess you´re kidding in which case :o) However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of marketing and trade in their Nodal
                          Message 12 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Mike

                            I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)

                            However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                            marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                            other product.

                            What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                            professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                            AND quality AND the great support.

                            360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                            it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                            me, and I know I am not the only one.

                            In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > dalileis:
                            > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                            > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                            >
                            > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                            customer.
                            >
                            > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                            >
                            http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                            > 15
                            >
                            > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                            > head for a very reasonable price.
                            >
                            >
                            > ciao
                            > mike
                            > www.360de.de
                            >
                            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                            > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                            > Auftrag von dalileis
                            > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                            > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                            single
                            > row panoramic photography
                            >
                            >
                            > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                            > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                            > mean in this thread only and even here:
                            >
                            > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                            >
                            > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                            >
                            > Wow.
                            >
                            > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                            > for your poor company?
                            >
                            > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                            > Ninja user.
                            >
                            > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                            > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                            > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                            > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                            > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                            >
                            > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                            > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                            >
                            > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                            > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                            > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                            >
                            > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                            > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                            > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                            > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                            > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                            > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                            > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                            > ways.
                            >
                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Hi Matt,
                            > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                            > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                            clear. We
                            > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                            > from people
                            > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                            > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                            > lens
                            > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                            > in this
                            > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                            plastic is
                            > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                            systems (and
                            > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                            > lens mount
                            > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                            > camera
                            > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                            > tripod with
                            > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                            > lenses have
                            > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                            > >
                            > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                            > occurred to
                            > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                            > configuration of
                            > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                            > This is in
                            > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                            > opted
                            > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                            > disclaimer.
                            > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                            > and in
                            > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                            authorized
                            > > camera dealer and ask.
                            > >
                            > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                            > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                            send to
                            > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                            > send them
                            > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                            > >
                            > > All the best
                            > > Bill
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                            > Checked by AVG.
                            > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                            02.05.2008
                            > 16:34
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • ptgroup
                            dalileis: of course I am !!!!!! What did you expect after the all in this thread ???? And IF - I would try to trad my stuff in at Bills NN store. ciao mike
                            Message 13 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                            • 0 Attachment
                              dalileis:
                              of course I am !!!!!!
                              What did you expect after the all in this thread ????

                              And "IF" - I would try to trad my stuff in at Bills NN store.
                              ciao
                              mike
                              www.360de.de

                              -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                              Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                              Auftrag von dalileis
                              Gesendet: Samstag, 3. Mai 2008 00:14
                              An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for single
                              row panoramic photography


                              Hi Mike

                              I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)

                              However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                              marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                              other product.

                              What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                              professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                              AND quality AND the great support.

                              360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                              it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                              me, and I know I am not the only one.

                              In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > dalileis:
                              > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                              > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                              >
                              > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                              customer.
                              >
                              > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                              >
                              http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post1
                              70
                              > 15
                              >
                              > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                              > head for a very reasonable price.
                              >
                              >
                              > ciao
                              > mike
                              > www.360de.de
                              >
                              > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                              > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                              > Auftrag von dalileis
                              > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                              > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                              single
                              > row panoramic photography
                              >
                              >
                              > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                              > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                              > mean in this thread only and even here:
                              >
                              > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                              >
                              > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                              >
                              > Wow.
                              >
                              > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                              > for your poor company?
                              >
                              > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                              > Ninja user.
                              >
                              > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                              > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                              > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                              > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                              > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                              >
                              > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                              > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                              >
                              > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                              > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                              > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                              >
                              > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                              > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                              > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                              > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                              > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                              > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                              > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                              > ways.
                              >
                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Hi Matt,
                              > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                              > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                              clear. We
                              > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                              > from people
                              > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                              > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                              > lens
                              > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                              > in this
                              > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                              plastic is
                              > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                              systems (and
                              > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                              > lens mount
                              > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                              > camera
                              > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                              > tripod with
                              > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                              > lenses have
                              > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                              > >
                              > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                              > occurred to
                              > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                              > configuration of
                              > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                              > This is in
                              > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                              > opted
                              > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                              > disclaimer.
                              > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                              > and in
                              > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                              authorized
                              > > camera dealer and ask.
                              > >
                              > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                              > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                              send to
                              > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                              > send them
                              > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                              > >
                              > > All the best
                              > > Bill
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              > Checked by AVG.
                              > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                              02.05.2008
                              > 16:34
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >




                              No virus found in this outgoing message.
                              Checked by AVG.
                              Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date: 02.05.2008
                              16:34


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Stuart Milne
                              Dalileis, ... Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew s. I do not attempt to put words into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy. ... An Inference of 360P
                              Message 14 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Dalileis,

                                >"Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja".
                                Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew's. I do not attempt to put words into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.

                                >Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or Matthew?
                                An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful.*

                                >Testimonials can be altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                                Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular concerns over our bona-fide testimonials.

                                A public apology would be appreciated, although judging by your demeanor to date, I shan't expect it to be forthcoming.

                                Also, whilst I would have preferred Bill to have contacted me privately with any potential concerns he had over our design, what is done is done. I think Bill knows I'm a fan of his, he is a standup no-nonsense guy with a passion for panos. We can all do with more like him. My background is in Engineering, and I am 100% confident in my design. Ultimately from a torque&loading perspective on the lens mount it is identical to a telephoto lens mount system, which nikon sell and recommend in their lens instruction manuals.

                                To be honest, I had hoped to just let this lie as I've been drawn into spats on this list in the past and quite frankly I'm tired of them. Ultimately it just makes everyone look silly and there are no winners. Let's let the products and outputs speak for themselves.

                                Kindest,

                                Stu@360P

                                *If I misunderstand your comment, and you meant to say that you believe that Bill would use the money more effectively than 360P, then that may well be. 1/2 our profits we spend on beer, go-karting, and games consoles. The other 1/2 we just waste!




                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Bill Bailey
                                Hey guys, We really appreciate your support and it s humbling. I do not mean to create any waves between vendors and we do respect our competition regardless.
                                Message 15 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey guys,
                                  We really appreciate your support and it's humbling. I do not mean to create
                                  any waves between vendors and we do respect our competition regardless. But
                                  more importantly we are customer driven.
                                  We are a small company and strive to build lasting relationships with our
                                  customers with hopes they might one day return to buy again. You spend $200
                                  on an item it's reassuring to know you have people behind you ready to
                                  assist should a problem arise. Our testimonials and NN forum posts will back
                                  us and you can simply ask around.
                                  Anyone can build a better widget (hey - NN widget? hmm ;-) - but it took 4
                                  years to build a company that humbly prides itself on a foundation of hard
                                  earned, old school, customer trust.
                                  Many thanks
                                  Bill



                                  dalileis-3 wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Mike
                                  >
                                  > I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)
                                  >
                                  > However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                                  > marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                                  > other product.
                                  >
                                  > What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                                  > professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                                  > AND quality AND the great support.
                                  >
                                  > 360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                                  > it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                                  > me, and I know I am not the only one.
                                  >
                                  > In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >> dalileis:
                                  >> at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                                  >> http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                                  >>
                                  >> At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                                  > customer.
                                  >>
                                  >> Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                                  >>
                                  > http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                                  >> 15
                                  >>
                                  >> I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed a nice
                                  >> head for a very reasonable price.
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> ciao
                                  >> mike
                                  >> www.360de.de
                                  >>
                                  >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                  >> Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                                  >> Auftrag von dalileis
                                  >> Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                                  >> An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                                  > single
                                  >> row panoramic photography
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon, as
                                  >> I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                                  >> mean in this thread only and even here:
                                  >>
                                  >> http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                                  >>
                                  >> "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                                  >>
                                  >> Wow.
                                  >>
                                  >> Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                                  >> for your poor company?
                                  >>
                                  >> "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                                  >> Ninja user.
                                  >>
                                  >> Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                                  >> Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                                  >> and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in case
                                  >> any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                                  >> altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                                  >>
                                  >> Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                                  >> professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                                  >>
                                  >> All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                                  >> also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-headed
                                  >> panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                                  >>
                                  >> Than again they might put someone else in charge of their marketing. I
                                  >> just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking bad
                                  >> for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                                  >> should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do you
                                  >> and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                                  >> you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                                  >> properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked marketing
                                  >> ways.
                                  >>
                                  >> --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Hi Matt,
                                  >> > Hope all's well in the UK.
                                  >> > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                                  > clear. We
                                  >> > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                                  >> from people
                                  >> > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                                  >> > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on the
                                  >> lens
                                  >> > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be used
                                  >> in this
                                  >> > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                                  > plastic is
                                  >> > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                                  > systems (and
                                  >> > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                                  >> lens mount
                                  >> > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on the
                                  >> camera
                                  >> > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                                  >> tripod with
                                  >> > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                                  >> lenses have
                                  >> > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                                  >> occurred to
                                  >> > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                                  >> configuration of
                                  >> > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                                  >> This is in
                                  >> > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So we
                                  >> opted
                                  >> > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                                  >> disclaimer.
                                  >> > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or otherwise,
                                  >> and in
                                  >> > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                                  > authorized
                                  >> > camera dealer and ask.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                                  >> > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                                  > send to
                                  >> > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                                  >> send them
                                  >> > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                                  >> >
                                  >> > All the best
                                  >> > Bill
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                  >> Checked by AVG.
                                  >> Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                                  > 02.05.2008
                                  >> 16:34
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  --
                                  View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17029252.html
                                  Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                • dalileis
                                  An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful. Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular concerns over our bona-fide
                                  Message 16 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    "An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful."

                                    "Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular
                                    concerns over our bona-fide testimonials."


                                    Stu, those are your words, not mine. I do not attempt to put words
                                    into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.


                                    Kindest,

                                    Semantic Ninja






                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart Milne" <stuart@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Dalileis,
                                    >
                                    > >"Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja".
                                    > Your words. Not mine, nor Matthew's. I do not attempt to put words
                                    into your mouth, please extend me the same courtesy.
                                    >
                                    > >Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                                    Matthew?
                                    > An Inference of 360P perpetrated theft? Wonderful.*
                                    >
                                    > >Testimonials can be altered, remember the method being used here
                                    and elsewhere.
                                    > Liars as well? If you wish contact me offlist with any particular
                                    concerns over our bona-fide testimonials.
                                    >
                                    > A public apology would be appreciated, although judging by your
                                    demeanor to date, I shan't expect it to be forthcoming.
                                    >
                                    > Also, whilst I would have preferred Bill to have contacted me
                                    privately with any potential concerns he had over our design, what is
                                    done is done. I think Bill knows I'm a fan of his, he is a standup
                                    no-nonsense guy with a passion for panos. We can all do with more like
                                    him. My background is in Engineering, and I am 100% confident in my
                                    design. Ultimately from a torque&loading perspective on the lens mount
                                    it is identical to a telephoto lens mount system, which nikon sell and
                                    recommend in their lens instruction manuals.
                                    >
                                    > To be honest, I had hoped to just let this lie as I've been drawn
                                    into spats on this list in the past and quite frankly I'm tired of
                                    them. Ultimately it just makes everyone look silly and there are no
                                    winners. Let's let the products and outputs speak for themselves.
                                    >
                                    > Kindest,
                                    >
                                    > Stu@360P
                                    >
                                    > *If I misunderstand your comment, and you meant to say that you
                                    believe that Bill would use the money more effectively than 360P, then
                                    that may well be. 1/2 our profits we spend on beer, go-karting, and
                                    games consoles. The other 1/2 we just waste!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                  • Andrew Crawford
                                    ... You mean something like this? http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/ I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few minutes and,
                                    Message 17 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Ken Warner wrote:
                                      > While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                      > I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                      > rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                      > over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                      > around the nodal point easily.

                                      You mean something like this?

                                      http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/

                                      I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                      minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                      covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                      installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                      spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                      particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm fisheye).

                                      Andrew Crawford
                                    • Matthew Rogers
                                      ... What are you talking about, I get asked all the time if we take trade- ins and on the rare occasion we do. There s absolutely nothing wrong with offering a
                                      Message 18 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        >
                                        > I guess you´re kidding in which case :o)
                                        >
                                        > However, I would never ever recommend anyone to buy into this kind of
                                        > marketing and trade in their Nodal Ninjas for that way over priced
                                        > other product.
                                        >

                                        What are you talking about, I get asked all the time if we take trade-
                                        ins and on the rare occasion we do. There's absolutely nothing wrong
                                        with offering a trade-in, Nodal Ninja buy back pano-heads. Lot's of
                                        industries offer trade-ins. Maybe you didn’t realise you can trade-in
                                        your old car and get money off a new one :) It's not as though we're
                                        poaching email addresses from email lists and forums and spamming
                                        people. We were 100% honest and upfront about the deal. And some
                                        people have already responded in excitement to the offer.

                                        What you also may not realise is that a large percentage of our
                                        customers upgrade from other panoheads. Quite often they just throw
                                        the old in the back of the cupboard or flog it on ebay. I know I still
                                        have three old Kaidan heads rumbling around somewhere.

                                        We're actually going to set-up a programme where-by students can apply
                                        for the panoheads free of charge on a case by case basis.

                                        We've now sold well over 1,000 panoheads and I've only ever had one
                                        customer tell me that they thought that the head was over-priced.
                                        Until you've actually seen one and used it day to day you have no
                                        right to comment. You can say what you want but the Absolute and
                                        Adjuste are the only panoheads available that are accurate enough to
                                        offer true batch stitching.

                                        If you run a business shooting panoramas and not just as a hobby then
                                        you might be able to actually see the benefit. We get emails from
                                        customers all the time telling us that without the 360Precision
                                        Absolute there's no way they could shoot and produce the amount of
                                        content they can in such short timeframes. And in some cases, without
                                        our products their projects would never be viable.

                                        > What I´m sayin: Nodal Ninja is a professional panohead, used by
                                        > professionals all over the world, which are praising it for its value
                                        > AND quality AND the great support.
                                        >
                                        It was tongue in cheek, you need to chill out and not take everything
                                        so seriously. But can you use an Hasselblad H3D with a 150mm lens or a
                                        1DsMK3 with a 500mm lens on a Nodal Ninja, probably not and it's not
                                        designed to handle it. Again, unless you've actually seen or used our
                                        products you don't know what you're talking about.
                                        > 360precision is also a professional panohead, but the person marketing
                                        > it is using such low blows that it´s starting to annoy the hell out of
                                        > me, and I know I am not the only one.
                                        >
                                        How is offering a trade-in any different than offering to buy back a
                                        product ? It's actually more fair to the buyer because we're not
                                        restricting the offer to just trade-ins on old 360Precision heads.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "ptgroup" <ptgroup@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > dalileis:
                                        > > at least you can trade it in : Matt wil pay 95 GBP !
                                        > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/
                                        > >
                                        > > At least I am a very satisfied NN user and Bill responses to his
                                        > customer.
                                        > >
                                        > > Looks like 360P doesn´t need customers:
                                        > >
                                        > http://www.panorama-forum.net/wbb/index.php?page=Thread&postID=17015#post170
                                        > > 15
                                        > >
                                        > > I am in contact with Thorsten Ohme from PanoMaxx - they developed
                                        > a nice
                                        > > head for a very reasonable price.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > ciao
                                        > > mike
                                        > > www.360de.de
                                        > >
                                        > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                                        > > Von: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]Im
                                        > > Auftrag von dalileis
                                        > > Gesendet: Freitag, 2. Mai 2008 23:39
                                        > > An: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > Betreff: [PanoToolsNG] Re: ANN: Coming soon: Nodal Ninja 180 for
                                        > single
                                        > > row panoramic photography
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > And this is exactly why I will be buying Nodal Ninjas pretty soon,
                                        > as
                                        > > I suppose will everyone else that has been reading around awhile. I
                                        > > mean in this thread only and even here:
                                        > >
                                        > > http://www.panoguide.com/forums/commercial/4800/?page=0#msg29385
                                        > >
                                        > > "So there's never been a better time to finally go pro."
                                        > >
                                        > > Wow.
                                        > >
                                        > > Are you sure you are the one that should be doing the marketing bit
                                        > > for your poor company?
                                        > >
                                        > > "Only amateurs use Nodal Ninja", in other words. Poor amateur Nodal
                                        > > Ninja user.
                                        > >
                                        > > Who would you rather entrust your money to via Paypal? Bill or
                                        > > Matthew? Who would you rather trust to be fair and give good support
                                        > > and what´s very important: FAIR, KIND AND CONSIDERATE support, in
                                        > case
                                        > > any is needed. Nodal Ninja or 360Precision? Testimonials can be
                                        > > altered, remember the method being used here and elsewhere.
                                        > >
                                        > > Nodal Ninjas are top notch product and are being used by happy
                                        > > professionals all over the world. That´s a fact.
                                        > >
                                        > > All the luck and deservedly high sales to Bill and Nodal Ninja. And
                                        > > also to all the others highly skilled, kind spirited and level-
                                        > headed
                                        > > panohead makers. Which would exclude...
                                        > >
                                        > > Than again they might put someone else in charge of their
                                        > marketing. I
                                        > > just hope he´s not the decision maker. In that case, it´s looking
                                        > bad
                                        > > for 360P. The man is a customer killer, for his own company. You
                                        > > should listen to these words, my arrogant 360 friend. They can do
                                        > you
                                        > > and your business well. I mean at the prices you are selling, can´t
                                        > > you afford to hire a professional to do the marketing for you
                                        > > properly? You ought to think about it or change your crooked
                                        > marketing
                                        > > ways.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bill Bailey <bill@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Hi Matt,
                                        > > > Hope all's well in the UK.
                                        > > > We too considered a lens clamp type mount but decided to steer
                                        > clear. We
                                        > > > contacted Nikon about possible warranty issues should they arise
                                        > > from people
                                        > > > using a clamp type bracket on their lenses.
                                        > > > They said basically that this could indeed create undo stress on
                                        > the
                                        > > lens
                                        > > > mount and that their camera and lenses were not designed to be
                                        > used
                                        > > in this
                                        > > > fashion. Some Nikon mounts are plastic and some metal, the
                                        > plastic is
                                        > > > obviously more sensitive. And face it - lens clamping type
                                        > systems (and
                                        > > > there are many out there) may very easily add extra weight to the
                                        > > lens mount
                                        > > > area by adding battery packs, placing and resting there hand on
                                        > the
                                        > > camera
                                        > > > while taking photos etc. Also moving the entire rig while on the
                                        > > tripod with
                                        > > > a lens clamp could also add stress. This is also one reason long
                                        > > lenses have
                                        > > > tripod collars - to lessen torque on the lens mounting plate.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > We were not willing to accept this potential risk. If any damage
                                        > > occurred to
                                        > > > the lens mount and/or camera side of mount using it under a
                                        > > configuration of
                                        > > > this sort it would in fact "not" be covered under Nikon warranty.
                                        > > This is in
                                        > > > the words of Nikon which a call to the company would confirm. So
                                        > we
                                        > > opted
                                        > > > for a different design. That said you might want to include a
                                        > > disclaimer.
                                        > > > Should anyone consider using a bracket of any sort, NN or
                                        > otherwise,
                                        > > and in
                                        > > > doubt if a warranty would be compromised just call your local
                                        > authorized
                                        > > > camera dealer and ask.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > You have an excellent line up of products as do many other vendors
                                        > > > (including us). Those seeking solutions under the $100 range we
                                        > send to
                                        > > > Greg. Those seeking a high end design with budgets of a $1000+ we
                                        > > send them
                                        > > > your way - and I know some have resulted in sales for you :-)
                                        > > >
                                        > > > All the best
                                        > > > Bill
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > No virus found in this outgoing message.
                                        > > Checked by AVG.
                                        > > Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.8/1412 - Release Date:
                                        > 02.05.2008
                                        > > 16:34
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Ken Warner
                                        Yes, something like that. I really don t want to carry more weight around than necessary. Any of the commercial pano heads would do but in most cases they
                                        Message 19 of 27 , May 2, 2008
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                                          Yes, something like that. I really don't want to carry more
                                          weight around than necessary. Any of the commercial
                                          pano heads would do but in most cases they are over kill
                                          because they have to work for a whole bunch of different
                                          cameras. So far, the NN series is closest to what I want.

                                          I keep waiting for the right auction on eBay.

                                          I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                          Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                                          Andrew Crawford wrote:
                                          > Ken Warner wrote:
                                          >
                                          >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                          >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                          >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                          >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                          >>around the nodal point easily.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > You mean something like this?
                                          >
                                          > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                                          >
                                          > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                          > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                          > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                          > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                          > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                          > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm fisheye).
                                          >
                                          > Andrew Crawford
                                          >
                                        • Daniel Reetz
                                          ... I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it after I saw
                                          Message 20 of 27 , May 2, 2008
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            > I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                            > Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                                            I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it
                                            was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it
                                            after I saw Nick Fan gracefully responding to criticism in the Realviz
                                            Stitcher forums. I was impressed with his response and his willingness
                                            to help with my problems with the Russian postal system.

                                            When I returned to the US and had the opportunity to spend $$$ on a
                                            new system, I ended up making my own. I bought a mill, mini-lathe and
                                            rotary table and machined a very precise rotator to my own
                                            specifications. Here's a development shot of it:

                                            http://danreetz.com/ongoing/2008_daniel_reetz__0023_camera_rotator.jpg

                                            To each their own. Looking forward to the 180.
                                            DR

                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Andrew Crawford wrote:
                                            > > Ken Warner wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                            > >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                            > >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                            > >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                            > >>around the nodal point easily.
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > You mean something like this?
                                            > >
                                            > > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                                            > >
                                            > > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                            > > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                            > > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                            > > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                            > > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                            > > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm
                                            > fisheye).
                                            > >
                                            > > Andrew Crawford
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • Ken Warner
                                            Beautiful work! What great fun it would be to build my own pano head. From what I ve seen on the net, I agree with your views on NN and the positive attitudes
                                            Message 21 of 27 , May 3, 2008
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                                              Beautiful work! What great fun it would be to build
                                              my own pano head.

                                              From what I've seen on the net, I agree with your
                                              views on NN and the positive attitudes of the
                                              guys there.

                                              I'm just trying to make the right choices for myself.


                                              Daniel Reetz wrote:
                                              >> I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                              >> Living on a budget and without tools sucks...
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > I know how you feel. I spent a year in Russia without any tools-- it
                                              > was really hard. It was there that I bought a Nodal Ninja; I bought it
                                              > after I saw Nick Fan gracefully responding to criticism in the Realviz
                                              > Stitcher forums. I was impressed with his response and his willingness
                                              > to help with my problems with the Russian postal system.
                                              >
                                              > When I returned to the US and had the opportunity to spend $$$ on a
                                              > new system, I ended up making my own. I bought a mill, mini-lathe and
                                              > rotary table and machined a very precise rotator to my own
                                              > specifications. Here's a development shot of it:
                                              >
                                              > http://danreetz.com/ongoing/2008_daniel_reetz__0023_camera_rotator.jpg
                                              >
                                              > To each their own. Looking forward to the 180.
                                              > DR
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >>
                                              >> Andrew Crawford wrote:
                                              >> > Ken Warner wrote:
                                              >> >
                                              >> >>While I am one to beat a dead horse frequently. All
                                              >> >>I'm going to say is that my monopod doesn't need a
                                              >> >>rotator -- but it needs a way to position the lens
                                              >> >>over the axis of rotation and tilt the camera
                                              >> >>around the nodal point easily.
                                              >> >
                                              >> >
                                              >> > You mean something like this?
                                              >> >
                                              >> > http://www.evermore.com/temp/PanoBracket/
                                              >> >
                                              >> > I took a few measurements, played with a piece of cardboard for a few
                                              >> > minutes and, had a local steel place fabricate this for me. Then, I
                                              >> > covered it with a clear protective coat, glued on some cork, and
                                              >> > installed a threaded bolt. It took a few whacks with a hammer to get it
                                              >> > spot-on but, it works fantastic. Of course, it is specific to a
                                              >> > particular body and lens combination (Canon Rebel and Nikon 10.5mm
                                              >>fisheye).
                                              >> >
                                              >> > Andrew Crawford
                                              >> >
                                              >>
                                              >
                                              >
                                            • Bill Bailey
                                              Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators of PanoToolsNG. We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an
                                              Message 22 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators
                                                of PanoToolsNG.
                                                We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an unprofessional
                                                tone and sincerely apologize for this.
                                                I believe it best we simply step aside and we'll refrain from using this
                                                platform to announce future product release.
                                                We would kindly ask folks to stop by our website or visit our new NN forum
                                                from time to time as we have many new products on the horizon.

                                                All the best.

                                                Bill Bailey
                                                Director Global Sales and Marketing
                                                www.NodalNinja.com
                                                --
                                                View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/ANN%3A-Coming-soon%3A-Nodal-Ninja-180-%22NN180%22-for-single-row-panoramic-photography-tp16993332p17035741.html
                                                Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                              • Yuval Levy
                                                It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider. AFAIK nothing
                                                Message 23 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                                  this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.

                                                  AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                                  announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                                  manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.

                                                  Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                                  IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                                  attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                                  NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                                  would have been enough.

                                                  Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                                  that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                                  barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.

                                                  Please stay.
                                                  Yuv

                                                  Bill Bailey wrote:
                                                  > Forum decorum concerns have been brought to our attention by the moderators
                                                  > of PanoToolsNG.
                                                  > We are very embarrassed that this announcement has taken an unprofessional
                                                  > tone and sincerely apologize for this.
                                                  > I believe it best we simply step aside and we'll refrain from using this
                                                  > platform to announce future product release.
                                                  > We would kindly ask folks to stop by our website or visit our new NN forum
                                                  > from time to time as we have many new products on the horizon.
                                                  >
                                                  > All the best.
                                                  >
                                                  > Bill Bailey
                                                  > Director Global Sales and Marketing
                                                  > www.NodalNinja.com
                                                • Keith Martin
                                                  I concur 100% with Yuval s words, from the request that you and other hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here, through to the
                                                  Message 24 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    I concur 100% with Yuval's words, from the request that you and other
                                                    hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here,
                                                    through to the personal reluctance to use web-based forums. :-)

                                                    k


                                                    Sometime around 3/5/08 (at 14:13 -0400) Yuval Levy said:

                                                    >It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                                    >this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.
                                                    >
                                                    >AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                                    >announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                                    >manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.
                                                    >
                                                    >Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                                    >IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                                    >attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                                    >NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                                    >would have been enough.
                                                    >
                                                    >Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                                    >that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                                    >barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.
                                                    >
                                                    >Please stay.
                                                    >Yuv
                                                  • Milko K. Amorth
                                                    Ditto on all points. Well put, Yuv. Nothing wrong with mods showing the flag publicly. Sometimes people do not realize the tone in their writing. Its an
                                                    Message 25 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                                    • 0 Attachment
                                                      Ditto on all points.
                                                      Well put, Yuv.
                                                      Nothing wrong with mods showing the flag publicly. Sometimes people do
                                                      not realize the 'tone' in their writing. Its an international list after
                                                      all.

                                                      Cheers, Milko

                                                      --
                                                      Milko K.Amorth
                                                      ph:604.561.5101
                                                      fx:604.909.5125

                                                      www.VRCanada.ca
                                                      360° Immersive Imaging
                                                      Skype: VRdundee

                                                      Check out the new release of Lucid Flash Viewer in HD!
                                                    • AYRTON
                                                      ... idem it s the same with me both subjects I hate forums :-( I like to receive new peoducts infos :-) Abcs AYRTON ... -- ... + 55 21 9982 6313
                                                      Message 26 of 27 , May 3, 2008
                                                      • 0 Attachment
                                                        On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 3:25 PM, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:

                                                        > I concur 100% with Yuval's words, from the request that you and other
                                                        > hardware manufacturers keep posting info about new developments here,
                                                        > through to the personal reluctance to use web-based forums. :-)


                                                        idem
                                                        it's the same with me
                                                        both subjects
                                                        I hate forums :-(
                                                        I like to receive new peoducts infos :-)

                                                        Abcs
                                                        AYRTON



                                                        >
                                                        > k
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Sometime around 3/5/08 (at 14:13 -0400) Yuval Levy said:
                                                        >
                                                        > >It would be a sad loss to most of us if you had to refrain from using
                                                        > >this mailing list to announce future product release. Please reconsider.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >AFAIK nothing has changed to the list policy. Factual commercial
                                                        > >announcements, open and honest, like those seen from you and other
                                                        > >manufacturers in the past, are and should be welcome.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >Instead of preventing commercial announcements, the moderators should
                                                        > >IMO intervene *publicly* and isolate offensive statements before they
                                                        > >attract further reactions from the *general public*. A simple "MOD
                                                        > >NOTICE" to defuse the tension before an all out flame war breaks out
                                                        > >would have been enough.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >Thanks for the invite to join your forum. I'll politely decline, but
                                                        > >that's me. I find that web based forums do not work well for me. High
                                                        > >barrier to participation; noisy user interface; high noise/signal ratio.
                                                        > >
                                                        > >Please stay.
                                                        > >Yuv
                                                        >
                                                        > ------------------------------------
                                                        >
                                                        > --
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >


                                                        --
                                                        ------------
                                                        | A Y R |
                                                        | T O N |
                                                        ------------

                                                        + 55 21 9982 6313

                                                        http://ayrton360.com
                                                        http://rio.360cities.net
                                                        http://vrfolio.com
                                                        http://ayrton.com


                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Andrew Crawford
                                                        ... I do understand. FWIW, the local steel place charged me about $30 USD for half an hour of their time and a little piece of steel. I probably spent another
                                                        Message 27 of 27 , May 4, 2008
                                                        • 0 Attachment
                                                          Ken Warner wrote:
                                                          > I could build something myself if I had access to a machine shop.
                                                          > Living on a budget and without tools sucks...

                                                          I do understand.

                                                          FWIW, the local steel place charged me about $30 USD for half an hour of
                                                          their time and a little piece of steel. I probably spent another couple
                                                          hours adding 50 cents worth of cork, a fraction of a $4 can of clear
                                                          coat, and 25 cents worth of screws.

                                                          Andrew Crawford
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