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difficulty stitching

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  • Yoram Bernet
    I m using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These aren t intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent panels. To clarify,
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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      I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These aren't
      intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent panels. To
      clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it into 12
      panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera above each
      panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
      pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
      completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
      between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
      through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images. PTGui
      just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and when I look
      at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
      apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not sure
      where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama (in the
      sense that it was shot by moving the camera)? Why does it work for one and
      not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative orientation of
      the images (three rows of four)?

      Thanks for any guidance.
      Yoram


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Alex
      Yoram, I believe this has been discussed before. The type of panorama you re creating is known as a linear panorama, where the camera is NOT always capturing
      Message 2 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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        Yoram,

        I believe this has been discussed before. The type of panorama you're
        creating is known
        as a linear panorama, where the camera is NOT always capturing images
        from a fixed point.
        If you search the archives for linear panorama you'll see much
        information concerning how-to.

        Alex
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------


        Yoram Bernet wrote:
        >
        > I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These aren't
        > intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent
        > panels. To
        > clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it
        > into 12
        > panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera above each
        > panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
        > pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
        > completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
        > between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
        > through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images. PTGui
        > just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and when
        > I look
        > at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
        > apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not sure
        > where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama (in the
        > sense that it was shot by moving the camera)? Why does it work for one and
        > not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative orientation of
        > the images (three rows of four)?
        >
        > Thanks for any guidance.
        > Yoram
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • sdubose99
        Hi Yoram, another name for what you re trying is orthographic. Check out this thread: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770 Scott ...
        Message 3 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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          Hi Yoram, another name for what you're trying is orthographic. Check
          out this thread:

          http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770

          Scott

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Yoram Bernet" <yoram@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These aren't
          > intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent
          panels. To
          > clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it
          into 12
          > panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera
          above each
          > panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
          > pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
          > completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
          > between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
          > through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images. PTGui
          > just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and
          when I look
          > at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
          > apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not sure
          > where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama
          (in the
          > sense that it was shot by moving the camera)? Why does it work for
          one and
          > not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative
          orientation of
          > the images (three rows of four)?
          >
          > Thanks for any guidance.
          > Yoram
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Yoram Bernet
          Alex, Scott - thanks. I m investigating linear and orthographic panos per your advice. ... From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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            Alex, Scott - thanks. I'm investigating linear and orthographic panos
            per your advice.

            -----Original Message-----
            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]
            On Behalf Of sdubose99
            Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:28 AM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: difficulty stitching

            Hi Yoram, another name for what you're trying is orthographic. Check
            out this thread:

            http://tech.
            <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770>
            groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770

            Scott

            --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com, "Yoram Bernet" <yoram@...> wrote:
            >
            > I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These
            aren't
            > intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent
            panels. To
            > clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it
            into 12
            > panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera
            above each
            > panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
            > pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
            > completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
            > between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
            > through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images.
            PTGui
            > just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and
            when I look
            > at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
            > apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not
            sure
            > where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama
            (in the
            > sense that it was shot by moving the camera)? Why does it work for
            one and
            > not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative
            orientation of
            > the images (three rows of four)?
            >
            > Thanks for any guidance.
            > Yoram
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • steven_mcq
            Although it might seem heresy in this group, I m wondering how the panorama maker in Photoshop Elements 6 would handle an orthographic mosaic. The feature has
            Message 5 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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              Although it might seem heresy in this group, I'm wondering how the
              panorama maker in Photoshop Elements 6 would handle an orthographic
              mosaic. The feature has been much improved for this edition, and while
              its not a professional stitcher it might do well on a mosaic.

              Autopano is being used for mosaics, if I understand the website correctly.

              Sorry to interrupt.

              SMcQ



              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Yoram Bernet" <yoram@...> wrote:
              >
              > Alex, Scott - thanks. I'm investigating linear and orthographic panos
              > per your advice.
              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]
              > On Behalf Of sdubose99
              > Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 10:28 AM
              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: difficulty stitching
              >
              > Hi Yoram, another name for what you're trying is orthographic. Check
              > out this thread:
              >
              > http://tech.
              > <http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770>
              > groups.yahoo.com/group/PanoToolsNG/message/14770
              >
              > Scott
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              > yahoogroups.com, "Yoram Bernet" <yoram@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These
              > aren't
              > > intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent
              > panels. To
              > > clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it
              > into 12
              > > panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera
              > above each
              > > panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
              > > pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
              > > completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
              > > between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
              > > through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images.
              > PTGui
              > > just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and
              > when I look
              > > at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
              > > apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not
              > sure
              > > where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama
              > (in the
              > > sense that it was shot by moving the camera)? Why does it work for
              > one and
              > > not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative
              > orientation of
              > > the images (three rows of four)?
              > >
              > > Thanks for any guidance.
              > > Yoram
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • ebig_foto
              Another way to stitch such images (that I have not seen mentioned in previous threads) is to use the program that comes with Canon cameras, Photostitch. In the
              Message 6 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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                Another way to stitch such images (that I have not seen mentioned in
                previous threads) is to use the program that comes with Canon cameras,
                Photostitch.

                In the tab Merge, goto Merge Settings and select Parallel Camera Movement
                (if distance from camera to subject to camera is constant) or Images Scanned
                in Sections if distance or focal length is not constant. It also can use
                specific control points.

                Photostitch seems to yield less sharp results than PTGui, but it will
                sometimes stitch when no other will, and the results can be sharpened.

                Regards
                Ed




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                View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/difficulty-stitching-tp15571922p15575000.html
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              • Yoram Bernet
                Thanks Ed. I ve had mixed results with Canon s photostitch. At times - it s been great. On this one it failed pretty miserably. Here s what I ended up cobbling
                Message 7 of 8 , Feb 19, 2008
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                  Thanks Ed.

                  I've had mixed results with Canon's photostitch. At times - it's been
                  great. On this one it failed pretty miserably.

                  Here's what I ended up cobbling up to make my deadline:

                  I created four panoramas using PTGui/Panotools (each a row of three
                  panels).
                  I loaded the four into Photoshop, manipulated them a bit by hand, then
                  used Autoblend to soften the exposure and color temperature transitions
                  - it worked pretty well except that it took a lot of time.

                  So - PTGui/Panotools worked wonderfully for the first but - even after
                  reading up on linear and ortho panos, I couldn't get it to do anything
                  reasonable if I handed it all 12 images comprising the second pano.

                  Thanks to all who helped. I gather I have a lot more learning to do.

                  Yoram Bernet Photography
                  www.yorambernet.com

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com]
                  On Behalf Of ebig_foto
                  Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2008 2:29 PM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] difficulty stitching



                  Another way to stitch such images (that I have not seen mentioned in
                  previous threads) is to use the program that comes with Canon cameras,
                  Photostitch.

                  In the tab Merge, goto Merge Settings and select Parallel Camera
                  Movement
                  (if distance from camera to subject to camera is constant) or Images
                  Scanned
                  in Sections if distance or focal length is not constant. It also can use
                  specific control points.

                  Photostitch seems to yield less sharp results than PTGui, but it will
                  sometimes stitch when no other will, and the results can be sharpened.

                  Regards
                  Ed


                  --
                  View this message in context: http://www.nabble
                  <http://www.nabble.com/difficulty-stitching-tp15571922p15575000.html>
                  com/difficulty-stitching-tp15571922p15575000.html
                  Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • marlanit
                  ... Hi Yoram, I m doing something very close to your project: mine is 146 images...I ve been working on this Project for two months now and still no solution.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Feb 23, 2008
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Yoram Bernet" <yoram@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm using PTGui and panotools to stitch together 12 panels. These aren't
                    > intended to be interpreted as a panorama, but rather as adjacent panels.



                    Hi Yoram,

                    I'm doing something very close to your project: mine is 146
                    images...I've been working on this Project for two months now and
                    still no solution. But I'm very close: Next what I did:

                    - Reduced FOV to 1°
                    - Rectilinear Projection
                    - FOV some multiple of 1°, based on the number of images
                    - Optimization with Panorama Tools - If you're working on a trial
                    version, Panorama Tools is disabled, sorry. :-)
                    - Why Panorama Tools? PTgui Optimizer, as you noticed, seems to ignore
                    vertical and horizontal points...try to optimize only one image:
                    Panorama tools will do it, PTGui Optimizer won't and a messege will
                    pop up...Maybe something to be fixed.
                    - one more thing with Panorama tools - only Mac - during optimization
                    there is no window or progress bar... the computer seems to freeze but
                    it's working actually. Definitely something to be fixed.

                    - Optimization.
                    First Optimization - H and V Shift
                    Second Opt - YPR
                    Third Opt - YPR and V
                    Forth Opt - YPR and H
                    Fifth Opt - YPR and HV

                    I locked the same image on each optimization.
                    I wasen't there during the shooting session and the Photographer told
                    me that the location didn't allow too much freedom for movement...this
                    forced him to move the camera in any direction and back and forth with
                    different magnifications between images as a result. This give no
                    image to rely on, and I was forced to choose an image between those in
                    the center of the mosaic because PTGui doesn't allow cropping of the
                    black area yet.

                    Caming to the panorama editor, sometimes autofit does't work properly
                    and even if it were it wouldn't help so much without a cropping tool.
                    If you check all the images for the optimization the result might
                    disappear; changing to equirectangular projection the panorama might
                    reappear, even with autofit, but with 1 degrees images and a FOV up to
                    360x180 degrees don't expect more than a dot or a line, and take into
                    account that FOV optimization may even reduce the original, already
                    small, FOV.
                    Add to this that if your working with hundreds of images, redrawing in
                    the panorama editor takes a while and all you'll be able to see is
                    nothing but pure black! Only solution at present is RAM and CPU: the
                    most and faster, the better.



                    > To
                    > clarify, my subject is a flat piece of work, 48" x 48". I divided it
                    into 12
                    > panels (three rows of four panels each) and centered the camera
                    above each
                    > panel, shooting head on with a 50mm lens. I did this for two different
                    > pieces. One of them, PTGui was able to create a composite from in a
                    > completely automated manner. In the other piece, there is less overlap
                    > between panels and PTGui requests help setting control points. I went
                    > through and manually set CPs between each pair of adjacent images. PTGui
                    > just doesn't seem to get it. Optimization returns 'very bad' and
                    when I look
                    > at what it's tried to do, it has tried to overlay many of the images,
                    > apparently ignoring the alignment that I indicated via CPs. I'm not sure
                    > where the problem lies... Is it because it's not truly a panorama
                    (in the
                    > sense that it was shot by moving the camera)?



                    Indeed PTgui is still not intended for panoramas taken moving the
                    camera parallel to subject at each shot, orthographic projection as
                    someone already told you, but good results might happen.



                    > Why does it work for one and
                    > not for another? Is there a way to tell PTGui the relative
                    orientation of
                    > the images (three rows of four)?



                    Do the first optimization only for H and V shift, just to position
                    images. Use the most relible image as the anchor image. Alternatively
                    choose that in, or near, the center...



                    >
                    > Thanks for any guidance.
                    > Yoram
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >



                    Do some reserch in this group for the past 2 months and you will find
                    more details on my project and the support I receved from users...

                    Good luck!
                    Marco Lanciani
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