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PTGui/PTMac Lens Database?

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  • kristinmaling
    Hello, I m fairly new to PTGui/PTMac (using trials to test which I personally like better - PTGui is looking good because of the inline HDR support) so I hope
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 4, 2008
      Hello,

      I'm fairly new to PTGui/PTMac (using trials to test which I personally like better - PTGui is
      looking good because of the inline HDR support) so I hope this isn't a silly question. I've
      searched online but haven't really found any info. Is there somewhere I can download a lens
      database for use in these applications? I found some info that Kekus LensFix had a Lens
      Database I should be able to use, but when I downloaded the LensFix CI demo, while there's
      a database when using the program, for the life of me I can't figure out how I can bring it
      into PTGui/PTMac?

      If anyone could give me some advice on this it would be most appreciated!

      Thanks,
      Kristin.
    • Joergen Geerds
      hi, you don t need a lens database for ptgui. during the optimization process, ptgui will figure out all necessary parameters. if you are shooting fisheye with
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 4, 2008
        hi,

        you don't need a lens database for ptgui. during the
        optimization process, ptgui will figure out all
        necessary parameters. if you are shooting fisheye with
        a panohead with stops, you can use previous projects
        as templates. in all other cases, it's easier to let
        ptgui do its thing, just make sure you have enough
        image overlap (25% is fine).

        good luck

        joergen

        ps. the only "database" you need is the nodalpoint for
        your lens. i do carry a small piece of paper in my
        camera bag where all nodal points are recorded for my
        panohead setup (for all my lenses i use).

        --- kristinmaling <kristin@...> wrote:

        > Hello,
        >
        > I'm fairly new to PTGui/PTMac (using trials to test
        > which I personally like better - PTGui is
        > looking good because of the inline HDR support) so I
        > hope this isn't a silly question. I've
        > searched online but haven't really found any info.
        > Is there somewhere I can download a lens
        > database for use in these applications? I found some
        > info that Kekus LensFix had a Lens
        > Database I should be able to use, but when I
        > downloaded the LensFix CI demo, while there's
        > a database when using the program, for the life of
        > me I can't figure out how I can bring it
        > into PTGui/PTMac?
        >
        > If anyone could give me some advice on this it would
        > be most appreciated!
        >
        > Thanks,
        > Kristin.
        >
        >



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      • marlanit
        ... Is there somewhere I can download a lens ... Try here: scroll down the page and download
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 4, 2008
          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "kristinmaling" <kristin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello,
          >
          Is there somewhere I can download a lens
          > database for use in these applications?


          Try here:
          <http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=77506>
          scroll down the page and download "PTLensDB_06-02-08.zip"

          You could do copying abc parameters and making your own databese in
          PTGui...

          Is this what your looking for?
          Hope this helps.

          Cheers,
          Marco Lanciani
        • Erik Krause
          ... It is advisable to store lens parameters in the internal lens database once you have satisfactory results. Using templates is fine, but templates store the
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 5, 2008
            On Friday, January 04, 2008 at 12:02, Joergen Geerds wrote:

            > if you are shooting fisheye with
            > a panohead with stops, you can use previous projects
            > as templates. in all other cases, it's easier to let
            > ptgui do its thing, just make sure you have enough
            > image overlap (25% is fine).

            It is advisable to store lens parameters in the internal lens
            database once you have satisfactory results. Using templates is fine,
            but templates store the image positions as well. Hence if you use
            different arrangements of images from the same lens, it's better to
            have the lens correction and Field of View values in the database. It
            simplifies the optimization process if there is no need to optimize
            for lens correction and FoV each time...

            best regards


            Erik Krause
            http://www.erik-krause.de
          • John Houghton
            ... I think having good lens parameters from a database or template is always an advantage. The control point spread is then much less important and you can
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 5, 2008
              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Erik Krause" <erik.krause@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > but templates store the image positions as well. Hence if you use
              > different arrangements of images from the same lens, it's better to
              > have the lens correction and Field of View values in the database. It
              > simplifies the optimization process if there is no need to optimize
              > for lens correction and FoV each time...

              I think having good lens parameters from a database or template is
              always an advantage. The control point spread is then much less
              important and you can manage with relatively few points. I don't see
              that it matters whether the lens parameters are loaded from a template
              or the lens database, except that the template will also hold a
              cropping circle too.

              John
            • Milko K. Amorth
              John and all, ... Amen. I think it is wrong to advice one does not need a lens database. I have had plenty of image sets of mine and others which did not have
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 5, 2008
                John and all,
                >
                >
                > I think having good lens parameters from a database or template is
                > always an advantage.
                >
                Amen. I think it is wrong to advice one does not need a lens database. I
                have had plenty of image sets of mine and others which did not have
                enough detail to set control points or where simply way to difficult and
                too time consuming to find features to set good Cps. Having a calibrated
                lens with abc or a a template for a cam/lens combo giving me good fov,
                abc,d and e have made my life and others easier on several occations.
                >
                > The control point spread is then much less
                > important and you can manage with relatively few points.
                >
                Exactly. For the params you already have you dont have to optimize for,
                usually. Therefor no cps needed. I admit I am old school and I dont
                regret it.
                This auto everything has its limitations and people will hit it sooner
                or later and most likely when it counts to deliver. If the fundamentals
                are missing then....S... hits the ceiling! I have done many hand held
                panos and using only 2 to3 cps per image pairs max. They are set faster
                most of the times as it takes time to validate or delete auto
                (mis)generated cps. That is only possible if you have a calibrated lens
                in your database.

                > I don't see
                > that it matters whether the lens parameters are loaded from a template
                > or the lens database, except that the template will also hold a
                > cropping circle too.
                >
                Right. A template will give you the crop position and therefor the fov
                for your combo. Very often you only have to optimize only for d and e
                and ypr , when applied.
                The image orientation comes with a template as well. To simplify that,
                one can use successful pano values on one image only and save that
                template for a certain combo and apply that to all new images in the set.

                Ptgui has a lens database built in. Use it if you can. Once you have a
                successful stitch with a combo...save it. You never know, it might come
                handy one day.

                As far as other lens databases are concerned, they have a different
                value as well. Mostly for single image application. I use Ptlens or
                Lensfix ,depending on what system I am on, for single shots.

                Recently, even more. The PTlens or Radcor progs are fun to use in
                conjunction with enfuse. Handheld or monopod multi brackets registered
                with align_image_stack,
                enfused and then corrected with PTlens........all drop and play! It cant
                get better then this.

                Cheers, Milko
              • Sacha Griffin
                Right, but I think most agree, if they use ptgui, templates are far better than a lens db, simply for the fact that the cropping is correct. If you use only a
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 5, 2008
                  Right, but I think most agree, if they use ptgui, templates are far better
                  than a lens db, simply for the fact that the cropping is correct.

                  If you use only a lens db, and recreate the cropping, you might as well
                  start from zero.to get a good stitch.

                  Not that using a template versus a lens db takes ANY extra effort
                  whatsoever.



                  I must admit, I learned something important going to a 5d from a 20d.

                  The rotation for each shot with a fisheye is incredibly important.

                  For instance, same lens, same camera dimensions, but the NPP is almost half
                  an inch different going from 72 degrees rotation to 45 degrees rotation.

                  Which also means, if you do creative composition shots, where you alter your
                  rotations for the subjects, your stitching and optimization is going to be
                  all over the place.

                  As is evident by my experience with hundreds of projects using a template
                  and the difference in optimization when I freed it to get best parameters.



                  Sacha

                  concepcion, panama



                  Pronto yo tendre un 360 con el atlantico y pacifico a juntos.



                  _____

                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Milko K. Amorth
                  Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 7:19 PM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui/PTMac Lens Database?

                  Right. A template will give you the crop position and therefor the fov
                  for your combo. Very often you only have to optimize only for d and e
                  and ypr , when applied.
                  The image orientation comes with a template as well. To simplify that,
                  one can use successful pano values on one image only and save that
                  template for a certain combo and apply that to all new images in the set.



                  .


                  <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18227848/grpspId=1705006496/msgI
                  d=16093/stime=1199578761/nc1=3848643/nc2=5028927/nc3=4990216>




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Milko K. Amorth
                  Hi Sacha, I think we might have totally scared off Kristin with these tech answers to a relatively simple question. I hope she is not discouraged by this. Let
                  Message 8 of 8 , Jan 6, 2008
                    Hi Sacha,
                    I think we might have totally scared off Kristin with these tech answers
                    to a relatively simple question.
                    I hope she is not discouraged by this. Let me just say that she can use
                    any data of lens profiles provided with either software.
                    The import however has to be manually. Of course the calibration data
                    for the lens is only for a, b and c parameters.
                    Fov and d and e are determined by the crop you apply and how the
                    lens/sensor relation pertains to your particular combo.
                    D an E always varies. I haven"t seen a lens which does not shift in its
                    mount. For repeatable results or scripting you need a bracket or a strong
                    rubber strap to pull the lens into a registered position.
                    >
                    > Right, but I think most agree, if they use ptgui, templates are far better
                    > than a lens db, simply for the fact that the cropping is correct.
                    >
                    Depending on the lens/cam registration, yes. If the lens is not
                    registered there will always be a shift you have to optimize for.
                    As i have said, I have yet to see a lens mount stay fixed and be
                    registere each and every time out of the box.
                    >
                    >
                    > If you use only a lens db, and recreate the cropping, you might as well
                    > start from zero.to get a good stitch.
                    >
                    I disagree. a b and c values of a calibration target are better than
                    from just any subject. Often there are not enough good features to be
                    correct.
                    It is hard to tell if you are correct if the image fits and ultimately
                    that is the goal. However, if you take these achieved values and apply
                    it to a
                    perfect grid image to test the lens, you will see that the values are
                    never quite right.
                    Have you ever ended up with every pano from scratch with the exact same
                    values?

                    Calibrated values in the lens database are a treasure. Especially to
                    correct single shots. Thats essentially what PTlens, Lensfix or Radcor
                    do. For each parameter you know is correct you do not have to optimize
                    for and dont need a cp for it.

                    >
                    > The rotation for each shot with a fisheye is incredibly important.
                    > For instance, same lens, same camera dimensions, but the NPP is almost
                    > half
                    > an inch different going from 72 degrees rotation to 45 degrees rotation.
                    >
                    Its always been that way. The NPP shifts depending on aperture and angle
                    of view of your segment used in the pano (i.e. Sigma 8 npp range is 13
                    mm from beta 0 to 90 ). That shift applies to pitched (vertical)
                    segments as well.
                    >
                    >
                    > Which also means, if you do creative composition shots, where you
                    > alter your
                    > rotations for the subjects, your stitching and optimization is going to be
                    > all over the place.
                    >
                    Yes. And you can not expect correct abc lens values from that can you?
                    Never will.
                    >
                    >
                    > As is evident by my experience with hundreds of projects using a template
                    > and the difference in optimization when I freed it to get best parameters.
                    >
                    Thats exactly it. Its always an approximation depending on features given.
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