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Poor resolution issues producing HDR QTVR on PTgui 7,5 Pro Mac

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  • pra9matiste
    Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I ve posted an example of the result here
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 2, 2008
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      Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
      QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result here
      <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
      the .pts file <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
      and equirectangular jpg
      <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven tried
      producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
      poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
      numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
      shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV interval.
      The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert C. Fisher
      Well 2 things cubic converter only takes equirectangular images, if it s not 2 wide by 1 high then CC is stretching it to equirectangular. Make sure the file
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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        Well 2 things
        cubic converter only takes equirectangular images, if it's not 2 wide
        by 1 high then CC is stretching it to equirectangular. Make sure the
        file you feed it is a equirectangular file. You can add expand the
        canvas in PS to do this and add black in the added area.

        Also size and sharpen the files in PS prior to sending to CC. If you
        take a 10k x 5k image and reduce the cubeface sizes in CC it will be
        a bit fuzzy. Resize in PS then sharpen to get close to your target
        cube size.

        Also when importing a file that has blank spaces in it make sure to
        restrict the tilt so the viewer can't tilt up/down into blank areas.

        On Jan 2, 2008, at 11:51 PM, pra9matiste wrote:

        > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
        > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result here
        > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
        > the .pts file <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-
        > santis.pts>
        > and equirectangular jpg
        > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
        > tried
        > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
        > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
        > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
        > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV interval.
        > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >

        Cheers
        Robert C. Fisher
        VR Photography/Cinematography
      • Robert Bilsland
        Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from the blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being replaced with the clear
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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          Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from the
          blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
          replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me (well apart from
          that weird effect on the ladies face!, I'm guessing she moved).

          Bob Bilsland.

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
          > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result here
          > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
          > the .pts file <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
          > and equirectangular jpg
          > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven tried
          > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
          > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
          > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
          > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV interval.
          > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Matthew Rogers
          Hi, For a start there s really no need to shoot 9 bracketed shots at 1EV with the D300. The D300 has more than enough dynamic range to shoot at 2EV intervals.
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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            Hi,

            For a start there's really no need to shoot 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
            with the D300. The D300 has more than enough dynamic range to shoot at
            2EV intervals. But in all honesty you should be able to get exactly
            the same results with just one/two exposures with this scene. I often
            see HDR panos posted to lists and forums where multi exposures are
            simply not necessary. HDR now seems to be a short cut bypassing any
            need to learn how to either, properly photograph the scene or learn
            photoshop. You'd be much better off spending your time learning
            photoshop and RAW conversion than messing around with HDR. Unless of
            course you're using the HDR file in a CGI capacity. If you're creating
            the panorama to be viewed on a monitor then HDR isn't really the way
            to go. You need to remember that tone-mapping HDR files down to 8/16
            bit was an after thought hence the reason it doesn't work as most
            people expect. I'm yet to see one single realistic tone-mapped panorama.

            Looking at the PTGui file I can see that you output the pano at 2800
            x 1400 using Lanzcos 2. Down-sampling the images by such an extreme
            amount will never yield decent results. Before determining the output
            size you really need define the size of the final panorama and go from
            there. You should never really down-sample more than 70% in PTGUi
            directly from the source images. If you need a smaller output file
            then you're better off outputting the panorama at 100% then down-
            sample the image after applying a small amount of gaussian blur in
            photoshop. Or you can do this directly in Photoshop using the
            panotools plug-ins. Also, if you are down-sampling you should really
            use one of the spline or sinc interpolators from panotools.

            Matt
            360Precision

            On 3 Jan 2008, at 07:51, pra9matiste wrote:

            > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
            > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result here
            > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
            > the .pts file <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts
            > >
            > and equirectangular jpg
            > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
            > tried
            > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
            > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
            > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
            > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV interval.
            > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
            >
          • pra9matiste
            Hello Robert Many thanks for this ! ... Are you saying that PTgui does not output to equirectangular format ? do you happen to know the ratio ? Make sure the
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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              Hello Robert

              Many thanks for this !

              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...> wrote:
              >
              > Well 2 things
              > cubic converter only takes equirectangular images, if it's not 2 wide
              > by 1 high then CC is stretching it to equirectangular.

              Are you saying that PTgui does not output to equirectangular format ?
              do you happen to know the ratio ?

              Make sure the
              > file you feed it is a equirectangular file. You can add expand the
              > canvas in PS to do this and add black in the added area.
              >

              > Also size and sharpen the files in PS prior to sending to CC. If you
              > take a 10k x 5k image and reduce the cubeface sizes in CC it will be
              > a bit fuzzy. Resize in PS then sharpen to get close to your target
              > cube size.
              >

              Silly me, of course !

              > Also when importing a file that has blank spaces in it make sure to
              > restrict the tilt so the viewer can't tilt up/down into blank areas.
              >

              I do this, but wanted to provide the untouched full test

              > On Jan 2, 2008, at 11:51 PM, pra9matiste wrote:
              >
              > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
              > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result here
              > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
              > > the .pts file <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-
              > > santis.pts>
              > > and equirectangular jpg
              > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
              > > tried
              > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
              > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
              > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
              > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV interval.
              > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
              > Cheers
              > Robert C. Fisher
              > VR Photography/Cinematography
              >
            • pra9matiste
              Hello Robert ... If you zoom in just a little, you ll quickly notice squarred out pixels... that s not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under ps and
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                Hello Robert

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from the
                > blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
                > replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me

                If you zoom in just a little, you'll quickly notice squarred out
                pixels... that's not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under ps
                and you'll notice.


                (well apart from
                > that weird effect on the ladies face!, I'm guessing she moved).
                >

                There are 9 bracketed shots overlaying this lady's face. I guess PTgui
                did it's best there... but how could these black square be replaced by
                just a blurred face ?

                > Bob Bilsland.
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
                > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result
                here
                > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well as
                > > the .pts file
                <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
                > > and equirectangular jpg
                > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
                tried
                > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still got
                > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
                > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja
                3 4
                > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                interval.
                > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Matthew Rogers
                ... That s because the final output size is only 2800 x 1400 pixels. You need a minimum of 6,000 x 3,000 for fullscreen (20 screen) and preferably 8,000px x
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                  On 3 Jan 2008, at 10:46, pra9matiste wrote:

                  > Hello Robert
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@...>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from
                  > the
                  > > blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
                  > > replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me
                  >
                  > If you zoom in just a little, you'll quickly notice squarred out
                  > pixels... that's not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under ps
                  > and you'll notice.
                  >
                  That's because the final output size is only 2800 x 1400 pixels. You
                  need a minimum of 6,000 x 3,000 for fullscreen (20" screen) and
                  preferably 8,000px x 4,000px

                  Matt
                • Robert Bilsland
                  Well if you want more quality when you zoom in you ll need to provide a higher resolution source to work from. A source image of only 2828 by 1414 pixels isn t
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                    Well if you want more quality when you zoom in you'll need to provide
                    a higher resolution source to work from. A source image of only 2828
                    by 1414 pixels isn't enough. A good place for quidelines for source
                    images sizes is the World Wide Panoramas "dimensions and file sizes"
                    page
                    (http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp/practical/Sizes.html).
                    Here it gives you guidelines for submissions of both standard and
                    full-screen panoramas. Stick to these and currently you can't go that
                    wrong.

                    Bob Bilsland.

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello Robert
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from the
                    > > blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
                    > > replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me
                    >
                    > If you zoom in just a little, you'll quickly notice squarred out
                    > pixels... that's not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under ps
                    > and you'll notice.
                    >
                    >
                    > (well apart from
                    > > that weird effect on the ladies face!, I'm guessing she moved).
                    > >
                    >
                    > There are 9 bracketed shots overlaying this lady's face. I guess PTgui
                    > did it's best there... but how could these black square be replaced by
                    > just a blurred face ?
                    >
                    > > Bob Bilsland.
                    > >
                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
                    > > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result
                    > here
                    > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as
                    well as
                    > > > the .pts file
                    > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
                    > > > and equirectangular jpg
                    > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
                    > tried
                    > > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and
                    still got
                    > > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
                    > > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja
                    > 3 4
                    > > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                    > interval.
                    > > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • pra9matiste
                    ... Fair point, and i agree about HDR... i would like to use hdr as a way of automating post-processing workflow, for example, in real-estate photography. Here
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Matthew Rogers <matthew@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > For a start there's really no need to shoot 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                      > with the D300. The D300 has more than enough dynamic range to shoot at
                      > 2EV intervals. But in all honesty you should be able to get exactly
                      > the same results with just one/two exposures with this scene.

                      Fair point, and i agree about HDR... i would like to use hdr as a way of
                      automating post-processing workflow, for example, in real-estate
                      photography. Here is the same pano
                      <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/appenzell6.html> , without hdr,
                      just for single shot, a little bit of fill-in in ACR... here is a whole
                      house <http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurentsj/sets/72157602242313434/>
                      i did in HDR, batch processing everything in automated mode... it's
                      still a test, and the result didn't come up to my expectations.
                      I often
                      > see HDR panos posted to lists and forums where multi exposures are
                      > simply not necessary. HDR now seems to be a short cut bypassing any
                      > need to learn how to either, properly photograph the scene or learn
                      > photoshop. You'd be much better off spending your time learning
                      > photoshop and RAW conversion than messing around with HDR. Unless of
                      > course you're using the HDR file in a CGI capacity. If you're creating
                      > the panorama to be viewed on a monitor then HDR isn't really the way
                      > to go. You need to remember that tone-mapping HDR files down to 8/16
                      > bit was an after thought hence the reason it doesn't work as most
                      > people expect. I'm yet to see one single realistic tone-mapped
                      panorama.
                      >
                      > Looking at the PTGui file I can see that you output the pano at 2800
                      > x 1400 using Lanzcos 2. Down-sampling the images by such an extreme
                      > amount will never yield decent results. Before determining the output
                      > size you really need define the size of the final panorama and go from
                      > there. You should never really down-sample more than 70% in PTGUi
                      > directly from the source images. If you need a smaller output file
                      > then you're better off outputting the panorama at 100% then down-
                      > sample the image after applying a small amount of gaussian blur in
                      > photoshop. Or you can do this directly in Photoshop using the
                      > panotools plug-ins. Also, if you are down-sampling you should really
                      > use one of the spline or sinc interpolators from panotools.
                      >
                      Thanks for this information Matt - going to work on it right away...
                      What i really would love to achieve, is the quality of these panos
                      <http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=vrviewer.home&viewe\
                      r=qt&id=21> : Can't i achieve this with a D300 and Sigma 8mm f3,5 ?

                      > Matt
                      > 360Precision
                      >
                      > On 3 Jan 2008, at 07:51, pra9matiste wrote:
                      >
                      > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing cubic
                      > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the result
                      here
                      > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as well
                      as
                      > > the .pts file
                      <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts
                      > > >
                      > > and equirectangular jpg
                      > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I ven
                      > > tried
                      > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and still
                      got
                      > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large differences
                      > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal Ninja 3 4
                      > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                      interval.
                      > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong ??
                      > >
                      >



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • pra9matiste
                      ... Thanks a lot for this Bob Where can i get a workflow that can actually get to this goal ? : Taken from the guidelines of worldwidepanorama
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Well if you want more quality when you zoom in you'll need to provide
                        > a higher resolution source to work from. A source image of only 2828
                        > by 1414 pixels isn't enough. A good place for quidelines for source
                        > images sizes is the World Wide Panoramas "dimensions and file sizes"
                        >


                        Thanks a lot for this Bob
                        Where can i get a workflow that can actually get to this goal ? : Taken
                        from the guidelines of worldwidepanorama
                        <http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp/practical/Sizes.htm\
                        l> It should be possible to produce a full-screen size panorama with a
                        file size of less than 2 mb. Take this as a goal. The maximum file size
                        that will be accepted for a full-screen panorama is 3 mb. We have
                        found that when creating fullscreen cubic panoramas, a QTVR with cube
                        faces of 1908 pixels (equirectangular source of 6000x3000 pixels) and a
                        compression of Photo-JPEG at 30-40% (QuickTime scale) gives very good
                        results. Using tiled cube faces can significantly increase playback
                        performance. For the 1908 pixels example, a 3x3 to 5x5 tiling setup
                        usually works well.

                        As aforementioned to Matt, i'd love to achieve this very quality
                        <http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=vrviewer.home&viewe\
                        r=qt&id=21> ... in less than 3mb QTVR !
                        page
                        >
                        (http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp/practical/Sizes.htm\
                        l).
                        > Here it gives you guidelines for submissions of both standard and
                        > full-screen panoramas. Stick to these and currently you can't go that
                        > wrong.
                        >
                        > Bob Bilsland.
                        >
                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" laurentsj@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Hello Robert
                        > >
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from
                        the
                        > > > blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
                        > > > replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me
                        > >
                        > > If you zoom in just a little, you'll quickly notice squarred out
                        > > pixels... that's not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under
                        ps
                        > > and you'll notice.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > (well apart from
                        > > > that weird effect on the ladies face!, I'm guessing she moved).
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > > There are 9 bracketed shots overlaying this lady's face. I guess
                        PTgui
                        > > did it's best there... but how could these black square be replaced
                        by
                        > > just a blurred face ?
                        > >
                        > > > Bob Bilsland.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@>
                        wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing
                        cubic
                        > > > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the
                        result
                        > > here
                        > > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as
                        > well as
                        > > > > the .pts file
                        > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
                        > > > > and equirectangular jpg
                        > > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I
                        ven
                        > > tried
                        > > > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and
                        > still got
                        > > > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large
                        differences
                        > > > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal
                        Ninja
                        > > 3 4
                        > > > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                        > > interval.
                        > > > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong
                        ??
                        > > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Robert Bilsland
                        To get the required panorama size, set it in the Create Panorama tab of PTGUI. Your .pts file had it set to 2828 by 1414 pixels, just amend this to 6000 by
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
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                          To get the required panorama size, set it in the Create Panorama tab
                          of PTGUI. Your .pts file had it set to 2828 by 1414 pixels, just amend
                          this to 6000 by 3000 and create the panorama again. Either that or set
                          the size in PTGui using the Set Optimum Size button to Maximum Size
                          (Your .pts file came up with a figure of 8460 by 4230) and then shrink
                          the panorama file back to 6000 by 3000 using Photoshop (or
                          equivalent). After that apply a bit of a sharpening filter. Your
                          choice, the first has less steps but some prefer to get PTGui to
                          create the optimum file size and then let something else crispen their
                          views up a bit after shrinking.

                          As for achieving the 30-40% Photo-JPEG compression, I'm guessing in
                          the CubicConverter software, under Movie Setting change the codec
                          setting and it should be in there. I say I'm guessing as I'm a PC user
                          and just looking at screen shots on Click Here Design's web pages.

                          Hope this helps,

                          Bob Bilsland.


                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Well if you want more quality when you zoom in you'll need to provide
                          > > a higher resolution source to work from. A source image of only 2828
                          > > by 1414 pixels isn't enough. A good place for quidelines for source
                          > > images sizes is the World Wide Panoramas "dimensions and file sizes"
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks a lot for this Bob
                          > Where can i get a workflow that can actually get to this goal ? : Taken
                          > from the guidelines of worldwidepanorama
                          >
                          <http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp/practical/Sizes.htm\
                          > l> It should be possible to produce a full-screen size panorama with a
                          > file size of less than 2 mb. Take this as a goal. The maximum file size
                          > that will be accepted for a full-screen panorama is 3 mb. We have
                          > found that when creating fullscreen cubic panoramas, a QTVR with cube
                          > faces of 1908 pixels (equirectangular source of 6000x3000 pixels) and a
                          > compression of Photo-JPEG at 30-40% (QuickTime scale) gives very good
                          > results. Using tiled cube faces can significantly increase playback
                          > performance. For the 1908 pixels example, a 3x3 to 5x5 tiling setup
                          > usually works well.
                          >
                          > As aforementioned to Matt, i'd love to achieve this very quality
                          >
                          <http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?precision=vrviewer.home&viewe\
                          > r=qt&id=21> ... in less than 3mb QTVR !
                          > page
                          > >
                          >
                          (http://geoimages.berkeley.edu/worldwidepanorama/wwp/practical/Sizes.htm\
                          > l).
                          > > Here it gives you guidelines for submissions of both standard and
                          > > full-screen panoramas. Stick to these and currently you can't go that
                          > > wrong.
                          > >
                          > > Bob Bilsland.
                          > >
                          > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" laurentsj@ wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > Hello Robert
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Bilsland" <rbilsland@>
                          > > > wrote:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > Could you please explain what you mean by poor quality? Apart from
                          > the
                          > > > > blurred view (QTVR Preview Track) that loads first before being
                          > > > > replaced with the clear view, it all looks fine to me
                          > > >
                          > > > If you zoom in just a little, you'll quickly notice squarred out
                          > > > pixels... that's not normal ... check the equirectangular jpg under
                          > ps
                          > > > and you'll notice.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > (well apart from
                          > > > > that weird effect on the ladies face!, I'm guessing she moved).
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > There are 9 bracketed shots overlaying this lady's face. I guess
                          > PTgui
                          > > > did it's best there... but how could these black square be replaced
                          > by
                          > > > just a blurred face ?
                          > > >
                          > > > > Bob Bilsland.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@>
                          > wrote:
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > Hello I get real poor quality low resolution result producing
                          > cubic
                          > > > > > QTVR HDR from PTgui 7.5 mac I've posted an example of the
                          > result
                          > > > here
                          > > > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/santis-ptgui.html> , as
                          > > well as
                          > > > > > the .pts file
                          > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.pts>
                          > > > > > and equirectangular jpg
                          > > > > > <http://static.virtuel-immobilier.com/apenzell-santis.jpg> . I
                          > ven
                          > > > tried
                          > > > > > producing the large file photoshop version (over 500mb) and
                          > > still got
                          > > > > > poor results. The table control point isn't showin large
                          > differences
                          > > > > > numbers... Shot with a Nikon D300 - Sigma 8mm f3,5 - Nodal
                          > Ninja
                          > > > 3 4
                          > > > > > shots arround, no nodal nor zenith, 9 bracketed shots at 1EV
                          > > > interval.
                          > > > > > The QTVR was made using Cubiconverter. What am i doing wrong
                          > ??
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          > > > > >
                          > > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • erik leeman
                          ... wrote: As aforementioned to Matt, i d love to achieve this very quality
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jan 3, 2008
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "pra9matiste" <laurentsj@...>
                            wrote:

                            "As aforementioned to Matt, i'd love to achieve this very quality
                            <http://www.360precision.com/360/index.cfm?
                            precision=vrviewer.home&viewe\
                            r=qt&id=21> ... in less than 3mb QTVR !"

                            Please note that Matt's high quality pano is 4.36MB in size, and it
                            really cannot be made smaller than that without significant loss of
                            image quality.

                            The quality/size result you want is only possible if the content of
                            your particular scene permits it.
                            When working with a fixed cube face size of, let's say, 1908 pixels
                            AND a fixed JPEG compression rate, the QT or Flash VR-file of a
                            highly detailed scene will always be MUCH larger than that of a
                            rather featureless one.
                            For extremes think of a dense forest with overhead leaves and
                            branches vs a saltlake with a clear blue sky.
                            Filesizes for such scenes can be as small as 1.5MB and as large as
                            8MB with identical cubeface sizes (1908px) and JPEG compression (thus
                            identical quality).
                            To bring filesize down to an acceptable level compression has to be
                            increased, but then visual quality goes down fast as well.
                            An alternative strategy could be to make your cubefaces less detailed
                            by applying a Gaussian blur filter. This would make JPEG compression
                            more effective, so filesize will decrease.
                            But again you'll loose image quality!
                            What it comes down to is that you can't always get what you want,
                            you'll have to decide for each individual pano what is most important
                            to you: filesize or quality.

                            By the way: higher compression of larger cubefaces can give worse
                            results than less compression of smaller ones!
                            I used to make my fullscreen VR's from 2100x2100 cubefaces, but after
                            a lot of experimentation (and discussion) changed that to 1920x1920
                            AND less compression.
                            With (near) identical VR filesizes this usually gives me higher
                            quality results.

                            Regards,

                            erik leeman

                            (www.erikleeman.com)
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