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RE: [PanoToolsNG] OT: how much can cost a single panorama

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  • Peter Sale
    A person can only charge as much for their services as the market will allow. You will know when you are charging too much for something when customers stop or
    Message 1 of 45 , Nov 30, 2007
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      A person can only charge as much for their services as the market will allow. You will know when you are charging too much for
      something when customers stop or never use your service. You will know when you are charging the "right" amount for your services
      when you are busy working your craft most, but not all, of the time. You will know when your are charging too little for your
      services when you are turning away business. Customers don't really care how much you want or need to charge in order for you to
      stay in business. They care about the Market price for something, and whether having that "something" is going to make them more
      "happy" (or more money) than not having that something.

      That being said, I'm currently a real estate agent assisting clients with buying, selling and/or leasing residential real estate in
      Santa Monica and Venice, California. I shoot ALL my own photos, for example, www.3019thirdstreet.com and www.2115third.com, and many
      but not all of my own panos, for example, http://tinyurl.com/ywa7tm (yeah, I know its not the most beautiful property) simply
      because the economics of my fee structure do not allow me to pay, up front, to hire a "professional" photographer, certainly not one
      charging $500 or more per VR image. This is true during an up market where properties sell so fast that an offer is in hand before a
      "serious" VR photographer has a chance to shoot, post process and upload his/her images to the web. This is also true during a down
      market (like we have right now in Southern California) where a property may not sell for months, if ever.

      For example, the biggest lease deal I ever closed is pictured at www.2115third.com, and this property leased for $7,250 per month
      for two years. My fee for leasing this property was $10,440 (6%*(24x$7250)). I had to give 1/2, or $5,220 to the new tenant's
      broker. I had to give $696 to my broker. I spent out of pocket marketing cost expenses of $500. I personally shot all the images and
      posted them to www.2115third.com, no out of pocket cost. Lastly, I did shoot some panos myself but also hired someone to shoot some
      additional panos of this property that reside at http://tinyurl.com/2bwa4q at a cost of $870 (the HDR issues were way beyond my
      current abilities). That leaves me with $3,154 before taxes for 70 hours of work ($10,440-$5,220-$696-$500-$870). Keep in mind that
      this is for leasing a $7,250 per month residential property for two years. I paid the professional photographer that I hired more
      than I paid my own broker for closing this deal, the richest residential lease that I have so far secured. Still, this photographer
      did not receive any $500 per image! My business simply will not support that amount for photography services.

      No VR images, of any residential property in my area, ever "sold" that property. All buyers or tenants want to drop by before they
      lease or purchase a property. Commercial properties, such as hotels, convention centers, resorts, restaurants, etc., are a whole
      different proposition, and I think a professional photographer (two professionals in the L.A. area who come to mind are Pat Swovelin
      and Robert Fisher), who is also a VR photographer, might make a good living in the L.A. area shooting both regular and VR images for
      such businesses. However, VR images MAY assist me with "securing" a listing, and they are fun to shoot for a hobbyist such as my
      self, so I do it. Still, I'm experimenting with many things in order to secure listings, and professionally produced VR images is in
      the mix right now, but not at anything like $500 or maybe not even $250 per image.

      Peter Sale
      Santa Monica, CA USA

      Ignacio Ferrando wrote:
      > Jaume,
      > Think about charges that profesionals have and you not...
      > If I charge less than 250 Euro + TAX (IVA) for 1 VR of quality, I
      > loss my time (and my money...)
      > regards
      > El 26/11/2007, a las 13:05, Jaume Llorens escribió:
      >> This weekend I shot this panorama:
      >> http://vistes360.com/panoramica.php?IdPano=31&ln=en
      >> And a person who show it, is today asking me for a budget to do
      >> another one like this.. A single one.
      >> I was thinking in offer this service in future, not yet.. I need
      >> better skills to offer a professional service... but I'm not in
      >> conditions to miss any opportunity to earn som extra money... The
      >> matter is that I have no idea of which may be the prices.
      >> Can anybody give me any orientation.. (it is only 30 minutes away
      >> from my home) Thanks!
      >> Jaume
    • Luca Vascon
      Eric, I agree. I can do it far faster or far slower, depending on the task. Example: I use an Olympus OM4 to take the light, usually, It has a multispot meter.
      Message 45 of 45 , Dec 12, 2007
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        Eric, I agree. I can do it far faster or far slower, depending on the task.
        I use an Olympus OM4 to take the light, usually, It has a multispot
        meter. I measure with a 55mm 1.8 or with a 100mm 2.8, I trust the meter
        and shoot with the 8mm -2/0/+2.
        15minutes per shot, usually 5 to 15 minutes to decide location, no nadir
        10.5nikkor, 8shots with separate offset nadir
        I can bring my samsung q1 on the field and pilot the camera from there,
        reviewing the pictures on the field. Custom bracketing, midrange,
        shadows, highlights.
        30 to 45 mins each pano, from setting up to finish shooting.
        no "searching for right position" coz it is done the day before, all
        natural lights checked and the thing planned with timings and things.
        Sometimes is very useful to use sunpath, to know when ths sun will kiss
        your facade...

        For myself I start from pole and monopod picts till gigapixels... but
        the price tepends on the project... always!
        No estate marcket here!!!

        Eric O'Brien ha scritto:
        > Consider there is a difference between the time needed to capture all
        > the images and the time needed to get ready to expose the *next*
        > panorama.
        > In my experience of walking into an architectural space that I
        > haven't seen before, it goes something like this.
        > Less than five minutes to make the exposures; in dim areas it could
        > be longer simply due to the exposure times needed; if I shoot an
        > offset nadir, a 10 minute budget would be very comfortable. (AND, if
        > I didn't have to wait periodically for my old, slow camera to write
        > images to the card, I could be faster!)
        > But next: Preparing to take the next panorama... make a choice about
        > the *location* for that; move the rig there (maybe carry it up or
        > down stairs, maybe have to unmount the pano head from the tripod to
        > do so, etc.). Set the tripod down, look around, fuss with
        > positioning, select the yaw of the first shot, adjust level, check
        > for reflective surfaces (to avoid getting 3/4 done, looking up and
        > seeing my image in a window, or mirror down the hall!); turn lights
        > on, adjust window shades, maybe hide things you don't want in the
        > final pano. Calculate the exposure. I'm shooting bracketed in three
        > steps, 2 stops apart. I do *not* just take an incident reading in
        > the middle of the room and then set that as the base exposure. I
        > want to make sure the "bright" exposure is sufficient to capture dark
        > object and shadow detail... I often need to do several test shots,
        > checking the histograms of all, each time, before I'm ready to go.
        > OK, now ready to make the exposures for *this* panorama? How much
        > time elapsed since you were ready to expose the previous one? For
        > me, a half hour is a good rule of thumb. It might be 20 minutes or
        > even less (when I move to a different part of the same room, and the
        > lighting hasn't changed, I just use the same exposure settings. I DO
        > check the histograms on my "slate" shots however!)
        > But overall, a 30 minute average is pretty safe. That means, for
        > example, if I have a 3 hour window in which to photograph some
        > panoramas that I better not expect to be able to come away with more
        > than 6. Or, the flip side: If you do a walk-through with the client
        > and they decide they want "12" panoramas, you can predict that you'll
        > need access to the location for around 6 hours. Maybe 3 hours on
        > each of two different days if you're trying to match lighting.
        > eo
        > On Nov 29, 2007, at 12:29 PM, Keith Martin wrote:
        > > Sometime around 27/11/07 (at 10:26 +0100) Jaume Llorens said:
        > >
        > >> I shot (d70s + 10.5mm) in raw, 3 bracketed series, 8-9 shots per
        > >> position. So.. 24-27 photos.
        > >>
        > >> Time aprox:
        > >> - Shooting: 30 min - 1 hour.
        > >
        > > I think you could very quickly average a *much* lower figure for
        > > shooting. (In fact, for most panorama subjects you'd *have* to work
        > > much faster, as the light or major parts of the scene could change
        > > rather a lot as you work. :-)
        > > Shooting with a decent head, the D70s and the 10.5mm lens, and
        > > bracketing three shots: 2 minutes, tops, and probably nearer one
        > > minute. This is from the point of being ready to take the first shot.
        > >
        > > The key is the pano equipment. What head do you use?
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