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Re: Russian nationalist's meeting, 2 hours ago

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  • Erik Krause
    ... Yes, true. Incredible... I d only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 4, 2007
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      On Sunday, November 04, 2007 at 16:01, erik leeman wrote:

      > Of course Andrey's VR is great too, as always : )

      Yes, true. Incredible...

      I'd only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay
      parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
      something moves away as soon as I want to take a closer look -
      autorotation eats up CPU time and slows down the computer up to not
      beeing able to close the respective window. Bad if you leave the
      panorama open and move on to something else...

      best regards
      --
      http://www.erik-krause.de
    • erik leeman
      I think you have a point Erik, I ve changed the settings for DevalVR on my own site to firstautoplay , 1,50 , autoplayspeed , 4 . I only have it on the small
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 4, 2007
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        I think you have a point Erik, I've changed the settings for DevalVR on
        my own site to "firstautoplay","1,50","autoplayspeed","4".
        I only have it on the small versions though.

        Regards,

        erik leeman

        (www.erikleeman.com)
      • Sacha Griffin
        That s a good idea. I haven t first of that setting before. Thanks for the heads up. Is there a similar setting for the fpp? Sacha Griffin Southern Digital
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 4, 2007
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          That's a good idea.

          I haven't first of that setting before. Thanks for the heads up.

          Is there a similar setting for the fpp?



          Sacha Griffin
          Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
          www.southern-digital.com
          www.seeit360.net
          www.ezphotosafe.com
          404-551-4275
          404-731-7798

          _____

          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Erik Krause
          Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 12:00 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Russian nationalist's meeting, 2 hours ago



          On Sunday, November 04, 2007 at 16:01, erik leeman wrote:

          > Of course Andrey's VR is great too, as always : )

          Yes, true. Incredible...

          I'd only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay
          parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
          something moves away as soon as I want to take a closer look -
          autorotation eats up CPU time and slows down the computer up to not
          beeing able to close the respective window. Bad if you leave the
          panorama open and move on to something else...

          best regards
          --
          http://www.erik- <http://www.erik-krause.de> krause.de





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jeffrey Martin
          Regarding this PhotoOverlay format - you can read all about it here - http://www.360cities.net/google-earth.html (I have announced this numerous times but I
          Message 4 of 19 , Nov 5, 2007
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            Regarding this PhotoOverlay format - you can read all about it here -
            http://www.360cities.net/google-earth.html (I have announced this
            numerous times but I guess some people

            EVERY ONE of our 3000+ panoramas are in this format.
            www.360cities.net/ge.kml

            Check out Prague, where the markers are so close together they are
            hotspots inside each panorama (you can see in the screenshots in the
            above link)

            >
            > > > Of course Andrey's VR is great too, as always : )
            > >
            > > Yes, true. Incredible...
            > >
            > > I'd only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay
            > > parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
            > > something moves away as soon as I want to take a closer look -
            > >
            >

            What is the "firstautoplay" ? you mean, it stops autorotate when you
            click on it? yes that's an idea.

            We have to balance the beginners/advanced viewers here, and the people
            who know how to use VR are in the vast minority. any other people will
            think it's a static image. so we have autorotate turned on. if you
            want to take a closer look, you can hold down the mouse button :-)

            Finally, bravo Andrey on a great pano! :-)

            Jeffrey

            --
            ------------------
            www.360cities.net
            www.prague360.com
            www.vrlog.net
            tel. +420 608 076 502
            skype jeffrey.s.martin
          • Chris Thomas
            Are you not concerned about Google now having ownership rights of all of your high rez image files? My understanding of Googles usage agreement gives them
            Message 5 of 19 , Nov 5, 2007
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              Are you not concerned about Google now having ownership rights of all of
              your high rez image files?
              My understanding of Googles usage agreement gives them rights forever to use
              everything any way they want!

              Hi rez files are valuable!
              Perhaps this "rights grab" can't be applied if you host on your own server,
              but if your files go throught Googles "System" do they store these files and
              apply their "usage agreement" to them?

              I believe Googles " Terms of Usage Agreement" should be read very carefully
              by everyone considering uploading anything of value!

              Cheers
              chris

              Chris Thomas
              Photographer
              cell... 403-615-1212
              In North America
              call... 1-800-870-5110
              http://www.christhomas.com

              -----Original Message-----
              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin
              Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 3:51 AM
              To: PANOtoolsng@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Russian nationalist's meeting, 2 hours ago

              Regarding this PhotoOverlay format - you can read all about it here -
              http://www.360cities.net/google-earth.html (I have announced this
              numerous times but I guess some people

              EVERY ONE of our 3000+ panoramas are in this format.
              www.360cities.net/ge.kml

              Check out Prague, where the markers are so close together they are
              hotspots inside each panorama (you can see in the screenshots in the
              above link)

              >
              > > > Of course Andrey's VR is great too, as always : )
              > >
              > > Yes, true. Incredible...
              > >
              > > I'd only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay
              > > parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
              > > something moves away as soon as I want to take a closer look -
              > >
              >

              What is the "firstautoplay" ? you mean, it stops autorotate when you
              click on it? yes that's an idea.

              We have to balance the beginners/advanced viewers here, and the people
              who know how to use VR are in the vast minority. any other people will
              think it's a static image. so we have autorotate turned on. if you
              want to take a closer look, you can hold down the mouse button :-)

              Finally, bravo Andrey on a great pano! :-)

              Jeffrey

              --
              ------------------
              www.360cities.net
              www.prague360.com
              www.vrlog.net
              tel. +420 608 076 502
              skype jeffrey.s.martin
              snip
            • jefffreymartin
              Hi Chris, You must be insane to think Google owns every image that passes through its server. Your fear-mongering does not even deserve a detailed answer as it
              Message 6 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                Hi Chris,

                You must be insane to think Google owns every image that passes
                through its server.

                Your fear-mongering does not even deserve a detailed answer as it is
                just completely false.

                You should talk to a lawyer who can explain Google's terms of use to
                you, and clear up this major misunderstanding. If you don't know any
                suitable lawyer, I can point you towards one or two who would be happy
                to do so for you.

                Jeffrey Martin
                www.360cities.net

                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                >
                > Are you not concerned about Google now having ownership rights of all of
                > your high rez image files?
                > My understanding of Googles usage agreement gives them rights
                forever to use
                > everything any way they want!
                >
                > Hi rez files are valuable!
                > Perhaps this "rights grab" can't be applied if you host on your own
                server,
                > but if your files go throught Googles "System" do they store these
                files and
                > apply their "usage agreement" to them?
                >
                > I believe Googles " Terms of Usage Agreement" should be read very
                carefully
                > by everyone considering uploading anything of value!
                >
                > Cheers
                > chris
                >
                > Chris Thomas
                > Photographer
                > cell... 403-615-1212
                > In North America
                > call... 1-800-870-5110
                > http://www.christhomas.com
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin
                > Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 3:51 AM
                > To: PANOtoolsng@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Russian nationalist's meeting, 2 hours ago
                >
                > Regarding this PhotoOverlay format - you can read all about it here -
                > http://www.360cities.net/google-earth.html (I have announced this
                > numerous times but I guess some people
                >
                > EVERY ONE of our 3000+ panoramas are in this format.
                > www.360cities.net/ge.kml
                >
                > Check out Prague, where the markers are so close together they are
                > hotspots inside each panorama (you can see in the screenshots in the
                > above link)
                >
                > >
                > > > > Of course Andrey's VR is great too, as always : )
                > > >
                > > > Yes, true. Incredible...
                > > >
                > > > I'd only hope Jeffrey (and anybody else) would use the firstautoplay
                > > > parameter for DevalVR. I hate autorotation, not only because
                > > > something moves away as soon as I want to take a closer look -
                > > >
                > >
                >
                > What is the "firstautoplay" ? you mean, it stops autorotate when you
                > click on it? yes that's an idea.
                >
                > We have to balance the beginners/advanced viewers here, and the people
                > who know how to use VR are in the vast minority. any other people will
                > think it's a static image. so we have autorotate turned on. if you
                > want to take a closer look, you can hold down the mouse button :-)
                >
                > Finally, bravo Andrey on a great pano! :-)
                >
                > Jeffrey
                >
                > --
                > ------------------
                > www.360cities.net
                > www.prague360.com
                > www.vrlog.net
                > tel. +420 608 076 502
                > skype jeffrey.s.martin
                > snip
                >
              • Chris Thomas
                Jeffrey. Obviously, you feel quite strongly about my Question . I don t think it s Fear-Mongering or insane to open such a discussion. I m going let your
                Message 7 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                  Jeffrey.

                  Obviously, you feel quite strongly about my "Question".
                  I don't think it's "Fear-Mongering" or "insane" to open such a discussion.
                  I'm going let your "name calling" pass for now and ask you to tell me what
                  your interpretation of the following is:

                  From "Google Terms of Service"

                  11. Content licence from you

                  11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in
                  Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services. By
                  submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a perpetual,
                  irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence to
                  reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly
                  display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or
                  through, the Services. This licence is for the sole purpose of enabling
                  Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked
                  for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those Services.

                  Earlier in the agreement Google defines "services"

                  4.2 Google is constantly innovating in order to provide the best possible
                  experience for its users. You acknowledge and agree that the form and nature
                  of the Services which Google provides may change from time to time without
                  prior notice to you.

                  For everyone who isn't as certain as Jeffrey, about Google's "Terms of
                  Services"; it's a fairly easy read at:

                  http://www.google.com/accounts/TOS

                  I would be interested to hear the views of others who are considering
                  integating Google into their business plan.

                  I don't think one needs to be a copyright laywer to be alarmed by these
                  kinds of Terms of Use. I belong to CAPIC which is Canada's top Association
                  of Professional Photographers and we have very good ongoing legal advise on
                  copyright matters.

                  Fact is; Google's contract is alarming and I hope they've done "Side Deals"
                  with a lot of "content providers" such as Jeffrey and other hi-rez image
                  providers or the content providers may have greatly diluted their ownership
                  in there own creations...

                  Jeff..... did you get something "Special" in writing from Google?
                  I assume you must have.... but the unsuspecting "Content provider" needs to
                  read the agreement carefully.

                  I can live without the condescension, can you share some information....

                  Thanks


                  Chris Thomas
                  Photographer
                  cell... 403-615-1212
                  In North America
                  call... 1-800-870-5110
                  http://www.christhomas.com

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of jefffreymartin
                  Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:01 AM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Russian nationalist's meeting, 2 hours
                  ago-Google?

                  Hi Chris,

                  You must be insane to think Google owns every image that passes
                  through its server.

                  Your fear-mongering does not even deserve a detailed answer as it is
                  just completely false.

                  You should talk to a lawyer who can explain Google's terms of use to
                  you, and clear up this major misunderstanding. If you don't know any
                  suitable lawyer, I can point you towards one or two who would be happy
                  to do so for you.

                  Jeffrey Martin
                  www.360cities.net

                  snip
                  .
                • Matthias Taugwalder
                  Well, I think we have to differ between Google Services (such as Google Video, Gmail, Youtube, etc) and the Google search engine. The Google TOS are of course
                  Message 8 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                    Well, I think we have to differ between Google Services (such as Google
                    Video, Gmail, Youtube, etc) and the Google search engine.

                    The Google TOS are of course valid for Google Services and content that you
                    upload to one of the Google servers. But I don't think that these also apply
                    for the search engine. Since the Google search only shows links to content
                    resp. web sites.


                    Best regards,

                    Matthias

                    --
                    Matthias Taugwalder
                    matthias.taugwalder@...


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Georgia Real Tours
                    ... [snip] ... Okay, break it up you two. Histrionics aside, on the surface the copyright fear seems reasonable. However, they are (mostly) unfounded.
                    Message 9 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                      On 11/6/07, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > Jeffrey.
                      >
                      > Obviously, you feel quite strongly about my "Question".
                      > I don't think it's "Fear-Mongering" or "insane" to open such a discussion.
                      > I'm going let your "name calling" pass for now and ask you to tell me what
                      > your interpretation of the following is:
                      [snip]
                      > I don't think one needs to be a copyright laywer to be alarmed by these
                      > kinds of Terms of Use. I belong to CAPIC which is Canada's top Association
                      > of Professional Photographers and we have very good ongoing legal advise on
                      > copyright matters.
                      >
                      > Fact is; Google's contract is alarming and I hope they've done "Side Deals"
                      > with a lot of "content providers" such as Jeffrey and other hi-rez image
                      > providers or the content providers may have greatly diluted their ownership
                      > in there own creations...

                      Okay, break it up you two. Histrionics aside, on the surface the
                      copyright fear seems reasonable. However, they are (mostly)
                      unfounded. Google needs the permission to do what it does. Yes, they
                      can use your material to promote the service but they aren't usurping
                      it, hence the limiting language which states "This licence is for the
                      sole purpose of enabling
                      Google to display, distribute and promote the Services and may be revoked
                      for certain Services as defined in the Additional Terms of those
                      Services." Note that they don't claim to do whatever they want with
                      it, merely to enable and promote the service you are using at the
                      time.

                      Naturally, I need to specify that IANAL, but neither are you two. If
                      you are uncomfortable with Google's services and TOS, don't use them.
                      Otherwise, consult a *REAL* lawyer and not take the word of some
                      slack-suited attorney who issues a biased opinion at the behest of
                      some organization. All too frequently, those statements are issued
                      with significant leanings toward safety. As an anology, consider a
                      "Highway Safety" advocate group hiring an expert who subsequently
                      states that no one should drive over 45 MPH (~70KPH) because doing so
                      increases the risk of death substantially. They usually fail,
                      however, to give relevant parameters; in this case it would be "in the
                      event of a head-on collision". So why on earth would someone need to
                      drive 45 (70) on a barriered highway where the risk of a head-on
                      collision ranges in the neighborhood of a lightning strike?

                      Cheers,
                      Robert~

                      --
                      Mid GA: 478-599-1300
                      ATL: 678-438-6955
                      garealtours.com
                    • Chris Thomas
                      Hi Matthias. I m not talking about search engine results. I m thinking these terms of services apply if you use a Google Maps GUI.. for example. I m sure one
                      Message 10 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                        Hi Matthias.

                        I'm not talking about search engine results.
                        I'm thinking these terms of services apply if you use a Google Maps GUI..
                        for example.

                        I'm sure one would have to enter into a "Service Agreement" to use their
                        Logos and GUI's etc. If you post links to Google Earth for example aren't
                        you providing content to their "Services"?

                        Terms like "perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide" raise a "Red Flag" for me!

                        I'm not anti-Google, I'd actually like to use them on a business development
                        plan,
                        but I want to be sure they have no "perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide"
                        rights to "back-up" everything that interfaces with their Service..... It
                        seems to me; their terms might be interpreted this way.....

                        Is there anybody from Google on the list..... I wonder?

                        Cheers
                        chris


                        Chris Thomas
                        Photographer
                        cell... 403-615-1212
                        In North America
                        call... 1-800-870-5110
                        http://www.christhomas.com

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Matthias Taugwalder
                        Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 1:03 PM
                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Google's "Terms of Service" for content providers

                        Well, I think we have to differ between Google Services (such as Google
                        Video, Gmail, Youtube, etc) and the Google search engine.

                        The Google TOS are of course valid for Google Services and content that you
                        upload to one of the Google servers. But I don't think that these also apply
                        for the search engine. Since the Google search only shows links to content
                        resp. web sites.

                        Best regards,

                        Matthias

                        --
                        Matthias Taugwalder
                        matthias.taugwalder@...

                        snip
                      • Hans Nyberg
                        ... No, the Google Maps has some special terms. You can read them on this page. http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html Hans
                        Message 11 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Matthias.
                          >
                          > I'm not talking about search engine results.
                          > I'm thinking these terms of services apply if you use a Google Maps GUI..
                          > for example.

                          No, the Google Maps has some special terms. You can read them on this page.
                          http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html

                          Hans
                        • Roger D. Williams
                          Thank you for the reference, Hans. Thanks to that, and to some links in it that I followed to other relevant web pages, I have a much clearer idea of exactly
                          Message 12 of 19 , Nov 6, 2007
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                            Thank you for the reference, Hans. Thanks to that, and to some links
                            in it that I followed to other relevant web pages, I have a much
                            clearer idea of exactly what rights Google wishes to claim over the
                            material I upload and that becomes accessible to others via their
                            services.

                            It seems quite innocuous. I think they have wiggle room if they
                            decided to make advantageous use of copyrighted material without
                            paying for it but their corporate code of 'do no evil' would be
                            a strong disincentive to do anything so blatant. I mean, EVERYONE
                            would be jumping all over them immediately, and that would surely
                            be very counterproductive.

                            I also notice that if you claim your copyright is being violated
                            and they take action that is later found to be unjustified because
                            you didn't actually have the right to make that claim, they will
                            come after you for legal fees, one company having been forced to
                            pay 100,000 USD for this very thing.

                            I think this is getting pretty far off topic, so I'll leave it at
                            that.


                            One last on-topic comment, though. I found the word "panorama"
                            very seriously misused in describing some of the many genuinely
                            awful photographs that are being uploaded. I hope this doesn't
                            give panoramas a bad name!

                            Roger W.

                            On Wed, 07 Nov 2007 11:52:40 +0900, Hans Nyberg <hans@...> wrote:

                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                            >>
                            >> Hi Matthias.
                            >>
                            >> I'm not talking about search engine results.
                            >> I'm thinking these terms of services apply if you use a Google Maps
                            >> GUI..
                            >> for example.
                            >
                            > No, the Google Maps has some special terms. You can read them on this
                            > page.
                            > http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html
                            >
                            > Hans
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Work: www.adex-japan.com
                            Play: www.usefilm.com/member/roger
                          • Chris Thomas
                            Hans. Thanks for the additional link. It refers back to the previously discussed Terms of Service in the very first line and seems to mostly address the end
                            Message 13 of 19 , Nov 7, 2007
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                              Hans.

                              Thanks for the additional link.

                              It refers back to the previously discussed "Terms of Service" in the very
                              first line and seems to mostly address the "end user".

                              It does address one of our misconceptions tho..... about search results.

                              "Content Provided by Third Parties

                              The Google Maps service includes search results such as business listings,
                              images, and related information provided by third parties."

                              This, coupled with their open ended definition of "Service" is a deal
                              killer for me.

                              I apologize to those less interested in copyright ownership matters.
                              I considered this very "on topic" because I see Pano creators rushing to
                              Google and just wanted to offer a cautionary note.

                              Roger.... you may be right about a "do no evil" policy of the present
                              Administration at Google. But their lawyer have left them room to develop
                              "Google Images".

                              I'll go back to my Photographer's forum... now......

                              No attack on Google users was implied or intended-LOL



                              Chris Thomas
                              Photographer
                              cell... 403-615-1212
                              In North America
                              call... 1-800-870-5110
                              http://www.christhomas.com

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:53 PM
                              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Google's "Terms of Service" for content providers

                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hi Matthias.
                              >
                              > I'm not talking about search engine results.
                              > I'm thinking these terms of services apply if you use a Google Maps GUI..
                              > for example.

                              No, the Google Maps has some special terms. You can read them on this page.
                              http://maps.google.com/help/terms_maps.html

                              Hans

                              snip.
                            • Chris Thomas
                              Hello Jeffrey.. Why did you omit the very next sentence in this clause? From google Terms of Service. ... By submitting, posting or displaying the content you
                              Message 14 of 19 , Nov 7, 2007
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                                Hello Jeffrey..

                                Why did you omit the very next sentence in this clause?

                                From google Terms of Service.
                                >11.1>

                                "By submitting, posting or displaying the content you give Google a
                                perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, royalty-free, and non-exclusive licence
                                to reproduce, adapt, modify, translate, publish, publicly perform, publicly
                                display and distribute any Content which you submit, post or display on or
                                through, the Services.


                                I agree. It's nice of them to leave you "your" rights!
                                I'm talking about rights given to Google.

                                I'm finished with this thread..
                                "What's not clear?"




                                Chris Thomas
                                Photographer
                                cell... 403-615-1212
                                In North America
                                call... 1-800-870-5110
                                http://www.christhomas.com

                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                Behalf Of Jeffrey Martin
                                Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 4:43 AM
                                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Google's "Terms of Service" for content providers

                                Chris,

                                what is not clear?
                                ---------------------
                                >11.1 *You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in
                                > Content*

                                >Jeff..... did you get something "Special" in writing from Google?
                                >I assume you must have.... but the unsuspecting "Content provider" needs to
                                >read the agreement carefully. --

                                I will not divulge such details on a mailing list which has ~50 contributors
                                and ~2000 lurkers. Sorry ;-)

                                snip
                                .
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