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Re: [PanoToolsNG] angle of view ???

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  • AYRTON - avi
    hi Ian, THANKS I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to know if there s a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given shot
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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      hi Ian,
      THANKS
      I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
      know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
      shot ?!?

      Ayrton



      On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
      > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
      > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
      > chiller cabinets...
      >
      > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
      >
      > Ian
      >
      > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
      >
      > > Guys
      > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
      > >
      > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would like to
      > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal angle
      > > of view on a given image ???
      > >
      > > the photo is here:
      > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
      > >
      > > Thanks a lot
      > > Ayrton
      > >
      > > --
      > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
      > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
      > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
      > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
      > >
      > >
      > > --
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > --
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      --
      AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
      Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
      Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
      Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
    • michel thoby
      Hi Ayrton, I think the answer is about 167 degrees. As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address this unusual specific problem. I have
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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        Hi Ayrton,

        I think the answer is about 167 degrees.

        As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
        this unusual specific problem.

        I have used only one tool for this: PTGui.

        Illustration given here:http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
        ceiling_Ayrton_167deg.jpg
        and the script is here: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
        Ayrton-167deg.pts

        Assuming the provided image to be a purely partial cylindrical
        panorama, I have set the Lens Settings parameters correspondingly.
        Then I have searched for feature(s) that would encompass a large
        angle on the ceiling or on the floor and that for sure is on the same
        straight line in real world.

        I have found and selected such a feature on the ceiling: the straight
        line (in real world) stretches from the top left to the top right of
        the image but is cropped out in the center.
        By moving the image around on the grid of the Panorama Editor, I have
        forced this line to lie on the center horizontal axis and tweaked the
        FOV value step by step. When I have set to 167 degrees, the "line" is
        coincident with the axis (and the other supposed straight lines of
        the ceiling are about parallel as they should be).
        Moving away from this 167 degrees value setting makes the expected
        coincidence (of the straight line with the axis) impossible...

        I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
        be wrong. But it looks good;-)

        Regards,

        Michel

        Le 1 nov. 07 à 17:21, AYRTON - avi a écrit :

        > hi Ian,
        > THANKS
        > I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
        > know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
        > shot ?!?
        >
        > Ayrton
        >
        > On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
        > > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
        > > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
        > > chiller cabinets...
        > >
        > > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
        > >
        > > Ian
        > >
        > > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
        > >
        > > > Guys
        > > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
        > > >
        > > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would
        > like to
        > > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal
        > angle
        > > > of view on a given image ???
        > > >
        > > > the photo is here:
        > > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
        > > >
        > > > Thanks a lot
        > > > Ayrton
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
        > > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
        > > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
        > > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > --
        > > >
        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        > --
        > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
        > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
        > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
        > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • AYRTON - avi
        Michel avant de tout I must say I m a admirer of your tests, website, photos and experiments :-) Second: thanks a lot for your time. I m gonna try your
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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          Michel
          avant de tout
          I must say I'm a admirer of your tests, website, photos and experiments :-)

          Second:
          thanks a lot for your time.
          I'm gonna try your description below

          Thanks again !
          merci beaucoup :-)

          Salut
          Ayrton


          On 11/1/07, michel thoby <thobymichel@...> wrote:
          > Hi Ayrton,
          >
          > I think the answer is about 167 degrees.
          >
          > As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
          > this unusual specific problem.
          >
          > I have used only one tool for this: PTGui.
          >
          > Illustration given here:http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
          > ceiling_Ayrton_167deg.jpg
          > and the script is here: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
          > Ayrton-167deg.pts
          >
          > Assuming the provided image to be a purely partial cylindrical
          > panorama, I have set the Lens Settings parameters correspondingly.
          > Then I have searched for feature(s) that would encompass a large
          > angle on the ceiling or on the floor and that for sure is on the same
          > straight line in real world.
          >
          > I have found and selected such a feature on the ceiling: the straight
          > line (in real world) stretches from the top left to the top right of
          > the image but is cropped out in the center.
          > By moving the image around on the grid of the Panorama Editor, I have
          > forced this line to lie on the center horizontal axis and tweaked the
          > FOV value step by step. When I have set to 167 degrees, the "line" is
          > coincident with the axis (and the other supposed straight lines of
          > the ceiling are about parallel as they should be).
          > Moving away from this 167 degrees value setting makes the expected
          > coincidence (of the straight line with the axis) impossible...
          >
          > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
          > be wrong. But it looks good;-)
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Michel
          >
          > Le 1 nov. 07 à 17:21, AYRTON - avi a écrit :
          >
          >
          > > hi Ian,
          > > THANKS
          > > I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
          > > know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
          > > shot ?!?
          > >
          > > Ayrton
          > >
          > > On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
          > > > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
          > > > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
          > > > chiller cabinets...
          > > >
          > > > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
          > > >
          > > > Ian
          > > >
          > > > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > Guys
          > > > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
          > > > >
          > > > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would
          > > like to
          > > > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal
          > > angle
          > > > > of view on a given image ???
          > > > >
          > > > > the photo is here:
          > > > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
          > > > >
          > > > > Thanks a lot
          > > > > Ayrton
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
          > > > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
          > > > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
          > > > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > --
          > > > >
          > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --
          > > >
          >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
          > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
          > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
          > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
          Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
          Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
          Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
        • Milko Amorth
          Hi Michel, ... Interesting forensic. I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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            Hi Michel,

            > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
            > be wrong. But it looks good;-)

            Interesting forensic.
            I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a
            cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an array of horizontal
            rectlinear tiles fudged together, rather unsuccessfully in the ceiling
            area. Again, pure speculation, but fun.

            Cheers, Milko



            --
            Milko K. Amorth
            360° Immersive Imaging Productions

            VRCanada.ca
            Vancouver.360cities.net
            Ph:604.561.5101
            fx: 604.909.5125

            Skype: VRdundee
            Adobe Photographers Directory: tinyurl.com/2e3tnq
            Flickr: flickr.com/photos/vrdundee/
            Youtube: youtube.com/user/VRDundee Member of IVRPA.org (International VR
            Photography Association): ivrpa.org/user/1133
            Member of the Panorama Tools Meeting Group Europe : panotools-meeting.com/
            Contributor to the WorldWidePanorama.com Project ( University of
            California Berkeley) : tinyurl.com/233lkg
            Member of 360cities.net network VR portal
          • AYRTON - avi
            ... Milko that s exactly that Not a cylindrical projection The client told me that the photographer took the photos on his hands just turning aroound on a
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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              On 11/1/07, Milko Amorth <panotools@...> wrote:
              > Hi Michel,
              >
              > > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
              > > be wrong. But it looks good;-)
              >
              > Interesting forensic.
              > I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a
              > cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an array of horizontal
              > rectlinear tiles fudged together, rather unsuccessfully in the ceiling
              > area. Again, pure speculation, but fun.

              Milko that's exactly that
              Not a cylindrical projection
              The client told me that the photographer took the photos on his hands
              just turning aroound on a normal tripod and at the client's agency
              some young designer put all the shots together ...

              But he can not remember if the photographer turn 180º or more, or even less ...

              AYRTON


              >
              > Cheers, Milko
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Milko K. Amorth
              > 360° Immersive Imaging Productions
              >
              > VRCanada.ca
              > Vancouver.360cities.net
              > Ph:604.561.5101
              > fx: 604.909.5125
              >
              > Skype: VRdundee
              > Adobe Photographers Directory: tinyurl.com/2e3tnq
              > Flickr: flickr.com/photos/vrdundee/
              > Youtube: youtube.com/user/VRDundee Member of IVRPA.org (International VR
              > Photography Association): ivrpa.org/user/1133
              > Member of the Panorama Tools Meeting Group Europe : panotools-meeting.com/
              > Contributor to the WorldWidePanorama.com Project ( University of
              > California Berkeley) : tinyurl.com/233lkg
              > Member of 360cities.net network VR portal
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
              Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
              Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
              Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
            • Alan Ball
              ... That guess looks about right. The earlier guess of 130 degrees seemed to be too narrow. I came to my own back-of-the-envelope guess from the square
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, michel thoby <thobymichel@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Ayrton,
                >
                > I think the answer is about 167 degrees.
                >
                > As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
                > this unusual specific problem.

                That guess looks about right. The earlier guess of 130 degrees seemed
                to be too narrow. I came to my own "back-of-the-envelope" guess from
                the square ceiling and floor tiles. Barring a major interruption in
                the square grid, the angle is definitely fairly close to 180 degrees
                but isn't quite there. It is then a matter of estimating how many
                squares' depth correspond to one squares' width at the edges, then
                calculating the arctangent of the width-to-depth ratio to get the
                angle at each edge compared to the depth. It is clear that the view
                isn't quite 180 degrees at each side, so you subtract the sum of these
                calculated angles from 180 degrees to get the horizontal angle of view.

                Alan Ball
                scoundrel1728
              • Erik Krause
                ... That reminds me of my experiments how to achieve the orientation plate (arc) projection. Rik Littlefield helped me then to undestand the maths. Perhaps you
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                  On Thursday, November 01, 2007 at 18:41, michel thoby wrote:

                  > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
                  > be wrong. But it looks good;-)

                  That reminds me of my experiments how to achieve the orientation
                  plate (arc) projection. Rik Littlefield helped me then to undestand
                  the maths.

                  Perhaps you could use it to verify your assumption:
                  http://wiki.panotools.org/Unusual_remappings

                  best regards
                  --
                  http://www.erik-krause.de
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