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angle of view ???

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  • AYRTON - avi
    Guys I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me : I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would like to know if there is
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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      Guys
      I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :

      I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would like to
      know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal angle
      of view on a given image ???

      the photo is here:
      www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg

      Thanks a lot
      Ayrton

      --
      AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
      Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
      Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
      Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
    • Ian Wood
      *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it s somewhere around 130 degrees, but there s some weird stuff going on above the chiller cabinets...
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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        *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
        around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
        chiller cabinets...

        Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.

        Ian

        On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:

        > Guys
        > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
        >
        > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would like to
        > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal angle
        > of view on a given image ???
        >
        > the photo is here:
        > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
        >
        > Thanks a lot
        > Ayrton
        >
        > --
        > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
        > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
        > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
        > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
        >
        >
        > --
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
      • AYRTON - avi
        hi Ian, THANKS I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to know if there s a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given shot
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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          hi Ian,
          THANKS
          I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
          know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
          shot ?!?

          Ayrton



          On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
          > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
          > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
          > chiller cabinets...
          >
          > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
          >
          > Ian
          >
          > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
          >
          > > Guys
          > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
          > >
          > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would like to
          > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal angle
          > > of view on a given image ???
          > >
          > > the photo is here:
          > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
          > >
          > > Thanks a lot
          > > Ayrton
          > >
          > > --
          > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
          > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
          > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
          > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > >
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          > --
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >


          --
          AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
          Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
          Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
          Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
        • michel thoby
          Hi Ayrton, I think the answer is about 167 degrees. As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address this unusual specific problem. I have
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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            Hi Ayrton,

            I think the answer is about 167 degrees.

            As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
            this unusual specific problem.

            I have used only one tool for this: PTGui.

            Illustration given here:http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
            ceiling_Ayrton_167deg.jpg
            and the script is here: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
            Ayrton-167deg.pts

            Assuming the provided image to be a purely partial cylindrical
            panorama, I have set the Lens Settings parameters correspondingly.
            Then I have searched for feature(s) that would encompass a large
            angle on the ceiling or on the floor and that for sure is on the same
            straight line in real world.

            I have found and selected such a feature on the ceiling: the straight
            line (in real world) stretches from the top left to the top right of
            the image but is cropped out in the center.
            By moving the image around on the grid of the Panorama Editor, I have
            forced this line to lie on the center horizontal axis and tweaked the
            FOV value step by step. When I have set to 167 degrees, the "line" is
            coincident with the axis (and the other supposed straight lines of
            the ceiling are about parallel as they should be).
            Moving away from this 167 degrees value setting makes the expected
            coincidence (of the straight line with the axis) impossible...

            I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
            be wrong. But it looks good;-)

            Regards,

            Michel

            Le 1 nov. 07 à 17:21, AYRTON - avi a écrit :

            > hi Ian,
            > THANKS
            > I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
            > know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
            > shot ?!?
            >
            > Ayrton
            >
            > On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
            > > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
            > > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
            > > chiller cabinets...
            > >
            > > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
            > >
            > > Ian
            > >
            > > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
            > >
            > > > Guys
            > > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
            > > >
            > > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would
            > like to
            > > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal
            > angle
            > > > of view on a given image ???
            > > >
            > > > the photo is here:
            > > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
            > > >
            > > > Thanks a lot
            > > > Ayrton
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
            > > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
            > > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
            > > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --
            > > >
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --
            > >
            > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > --
            > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
            > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
            > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
            > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • AYRTON - avi
            Michel avant de tout I must say I m a admirer of your tests, website, photos and experiments :-) Second: thanks a lot for your time. I m gonna try your
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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              Michel
              avant de tout
              I must say I'm a admirer of your tests, website, photos and experiments :-)

              Second:
              thanks a lot for your time.
              I'm gonna try your description below

              Thanks again !
              merci beaucoup :-)

              Salut
              Ayrton


              On 11/1/07, michel thoby <thobymichel@...> wrote:
              > Hi Ayrton,
              >
              > I think the answer is about 167 degrees.
              >
              > As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
              > this unusual specific problem.
              >
              > I have used only one tool for this: PTGui.
              >
              > Illustration given here:http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
              > ceiling_Ayrton_167deg.jpg
              > and the script is here: http://michel.thoby.free.fr/PB_FOV_Ayrton/
              > Ayrton-167deg.pts
              >
              > Assuming the provided image to be a purely partial cylindrical
              > panorama, I have set the Lens Settings parameters correspondingly.
              > Then I have searched for feature(s) that would encompass a large
              > angle on the ceiling or on the floor and that for sure is on the same
              > straight line in real world.
              >
              > I have found and selected such a feature on the ceiling: the straight
              > line (in real world) stretches from the top left to the top right of
              > the image but is cropped out in the center.
              > By moving the image around on the grid of the Panorama Editor, I have
              > forced this line to lie on the center horizontal axis and tweaked the
              > FOV value step by step. When I have set to 167 degrees, the "line" is
              > coincident with the axis (and the other supposed straight lines of
              > the ceiling are about parallel as they should be).
              > Moving away from this 167 degrees value setting makes the expected
              > coincidence (of the straight line with the axis) impossible...
              >
              > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
              > be wrong. But it looks good;-)
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Michel
              >
              > Le 1 nov. 07 à 17:21, AYRTON - avi a écrit :
              >
              >
              > > hi Ian,
              > > THANKS
              > > I tought the same, (130º) looking at the ceilings grid, but I wish to
              > > know if there's a tecnique to find out the exact angle of any given
              > > shot ?!?
              > >
              > > Ayrton
              > >
              > > On 11/1/07, Ian Wood <panolists@...> wrote:
              > > > *IF* the grid on the ceiling is a regular grid then it's somewhere
              > > > around 130 degrees, but there's some weird stuff going on above the
              > > > chiller cabinets...
              > > >
              > > > Finding out the exact FoV would be very tricky.
              > > >
              > > > Ian
              > > >
              > > > On 1 Nov 2007, at 15:31, AYRTON - avi wrote:
              > > >
              > > > > Guys
              > > > > I have a question, and really appreciate if someone can help me :
              > > > >
              > > > > I just received a photo from a client as a sample, and I would
              > > like to
              > > > > know if there is a way to find out what is the exact horizontal
              > > angle
              > > > > of view on a given image ???
              > > > >
              > > > > the photo is here:
              > > > > www.ayrton.com/diversos/questions/angleofview.jpg
              > > > >
              > > > > Thanks a lot
              > > > > Ayrton
              > > > >
              > > > > --
              > > > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
              > > > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
              > > > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
              > > > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --
              > > > >
              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --
              > > >
              >
              > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > > --
              > > AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
              > > Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
              > > Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
              > > Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >


              --
              AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
              Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
              Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
              Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
            • Milko Amorth
              Hi Michel, ... Interesting forensic. I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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                Hi Michel,

                > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
                > be wrong. But it looks good;-)

                Interesting forensic.
                I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a
                cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an array of horizontal
                rectlinear tiles fudged together, rather unsuccessfully in the ceiling
                area. Again, pure speculation, but fun.

                Cheers, Milko



                --
                Milko K. Amorth
                360° Immersive Imaging Productions

                VRCanada.ca
                Vancouver.360cities.net
                Ph:604.561.5101
                fx: 604.909.5125

                Skype: VRdundee
                Adobe Photographers Directory: tinyurl.com/2e3tnq
                Flickr: flickr.com/photos/vrdundee/
                Youtube: youtube.com/user/VRDundee Member of IVRPA.org (International VR
                Photography Association): ivrpa.org/user/1133
                Member of the Panorama Tools Meeting Group Europe : panotools-meeting.com/
                Contributor to the WorldWidePanorama.com Project ( University of
                California Berkeley) : tinyurl.com/233lkg
                Member of 360cities.net network VR portal
              • AYRTON - avi
                ... Milko that s exactly that Not a cylindrical projection The client told me that the photographer took the photos on his hands just turning aroound on a
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 1, 2007
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                  On 11/1/07, Milko Amorth <panotools@...> wrote:
                  > Hi Michel,
                  >
                  > > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
                  > > be wrong. But it looks good;-)
                  >
                  > Interesting forensic.
                  > I would have guessed over 180° fov. To me it does not look like a
                  > cylindrical projection at all. It looks more like an array of horizontal
                  > rectlinear tiles fudged together, rather unsuccessfully in the ceiling
                  > area. Again, pure speculation, but fun.

                  Milko that's exactly that
                  Not a cylindrical projection
                  The client told me that the photographer took the photos on his hands
                  just turning aroound on a normal tripod and at the client's agency
                  some young designer put all the shots together ...

                  But he can not remember if the photographer turn 180º or more, or even less ...

                  AYRTON


                  >
                  > Cheers, Milko
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > Milko K. Amorth
                  > 360° Immersive Imaging Productions
                  >
                  > VRCanada.ca
                  > Vancouver.360cities.net
                  > Ph:604.561.5101
                  > fx: 604.909.5125
                  >
                  > Skype: VRdundee
                  > Adobe Photographers Directory: tinyurl.com/2e3tnq
                  > Flickr: flickr.com/photos/vrdundee/
                  > Youtube: youtube.com/user/VRDundee Member of IVRPA.org (International VR
                  > Photography Association): ivrpa.org/user/1133
                  > Member of the Panorama Tools Meeting Group Europe : panotools-meeting.com/
                  > Contributor to the WorldWidePanorama.com Project ( University of
                  > California Berkeley) : tinyurl.com/233lkg
                  > Member of 360cities.net network VR portal
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  >
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --
                  AYRTON 21-9982.6313 www.ayrton.com
                  Ladeira de Nossa Senhora, 214 / sl. 101 www.vrfolio.com
                  Outeiro da Glória - RJ - 22211-100 - Brasil www.vr-images.com
                  Panoramas do Rio de Janeiro www.rio360.com.br
                • Alan Ball
                  ... That guess looks about right. The earlier guess of 130 degrees seemed to be too narrow. I came to my own back-of-the-envelope guess from the square
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, michel thoby <thobymichel@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Ayrton,
                    >
                    > I think the answer is about 167 degrees.
                    >
                    > As you requested it, I have tried to develop a technique to address
                    > this unusual specific problem.

                    That guess looks about right. The earlier guess of 130 degrees seemed
                    to be too narrow. I came to my own "back-of-the-envelope" guess from
                    the square ceiling and floor tiles. Barring a major interruption in
                    the square grid, the angle is definitely fairly close to 180 degrees
                    but isn't quite there. It is then a matter of estimating how many
                    squares' depth correspond to one squares' width at the edges, then
                    calculating the arctangent of the width-to-depth ratio to get the
                    angle at each edge compared to the depth. It is clear that the view
                    isn't quite 180 degrees at each side, so you subtract the sum of these
                    calculated angles from 180 degrees to get the horizontal angle of view.

                    Alan Ball
                    scoundrel1728
                  • Erik Krause
                    ... That reminds me of my experiments how to achieve the orientation plate (arc) projection. Rik Littlefield helped me then to undestand the maths. Perhaps you
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 2, 2007
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                      On Thursday, November 01, 2007 at 18:41, michel thoby wrote:

                      > I am not sure that this is perfectly accurate as my assumptions may
                      > be wrong. But it looks good;-)

                      That reminds me of my experiments how to achieve the orientation
                      plate (arc) projection. Rik Littlefield helped me then to undestand
                      the maths.

                      Perhaps you could use it to verify your assumption:
                      http://wiki.panotools.org/Unusual_remappings

                      best regards
                      --
                      http://www.erik-krause.de
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