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Re: las vegas boulevard - hd view

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  • Juergen Schrader
    i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2 gigapixel range. best
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
      i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate
      tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
      gigapixel range.

      best
      juergen

      but we don't need another ms flame though ^^



      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
      >
      > Sometime around 31/10/07 (at 12:39 -0400) Mark D. Fink said:
      >
      > >Once it
      > >is out of beta, it's anyone's guess if MS will make it compatible
      with MACs.
      > >I wouldn't hold my breath… :o)
      >
      > Quite. "Anyone's guess" is one way of putting it.
      > "Snowball's chance in hell" is another. Remember,
      > this is the company that is known for the
      > 'exterminate' approach to all competition,
      > wherever they can get away with it and sometimes
      > where they can't.
      >
      > I appreciate the fact that this viewer offers
      > something very interesting for certain projects.
      > But please remember to support inclusive,
      > cross-platform solutions wherever humanly
      > possible.
      >
      > k
      >
    • Hans Nyberg
      ... Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR. I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html which as far as I remember is around
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
        >
        > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate
        > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
        > gigapixel range.

        Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
        I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html
        which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920 pixels cubefaces.
        Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the first parts.

        Warning; 23 mb download

        I guess around 7000pixels cubefaces is the max I can produce on my G5 with
        CubicConverter

        I have to say I hate zoomify
        I remember the zoomify spherical panoramas. They died a quiet death.

        I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some reason but I am not
        interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super resolution images on the net in
        zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.

        For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.

        Hans
      • Juergen Schrader
        yeah sure, i know about this. but, honestly, i can t imagine i would want to shoot that much pictures on las vegas boulevard at nine in the night. personally
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
          yeah sure, i know about this. but, honestly, i can't imagine i would
          want to shoot that much pictures on las vegas boulevard at nine in
          the night. personally i'd rather prefer the people and fountains
          anyway. we'll see. ;)

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sometime around 31/10/07 (at 13:38 +0000) Juergen Schrader said:
          >
          > >anyway. on customers demand the picture was taken purposely
          around 3
          > >a.m. to avoid the people. (i also have one with the crowd and
          > >fountains, but this one has to wait).
          >
          > Photoshop CS3 could be used to produce a composite image from
          > multiple shots that eliminates people, if you have enough shots of
          > the same place to be able to mask out the differences from each
          one.
          >
          >
          > >www.schrader-air.de/panorama/lasvegas
          > >(ie or firefox, no opera, sorry for the inconvenience).
          >
          > Or Safari, or Macs in general? :-(
          >
          > k
          >
        • Paul D. DeRocco
          ... I think it s more likely that MS _will_ come out with a Mac version, since it s doubtful that very many people would use the format if Mac users couldn t
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
            > From: Keith Martin
            >
            > Quite. "Anyone's guess" is one way of putting it.
            > "Snowball's chance in hell" is another. Remember,
            > this is the company that is known for the
            > 'exterminate' approach to all competition,
            > wherever they can get away with it and sometimes
            > where they can't.

            I think it's more likely that MS _will_ come out with a Mac version, since
            it's doubtful that very many people would use the format if Mac users
            couldn't view it. (They did, after all, come out with IE for the Mac.) And I
            can't imagine that anyone at MS would be deluded enough to think that
            creating this minor viewer utility only for Windows would make anyone switch
            from a Mac to a Windows machine.

            Just my W.A.G., though.

            --

            Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
            Paul mailto:pderocco@...
          • Juergen Schrader
            but that s exactly the point. and mind that this is just a small one. i agree that not every picture will benefit from just making it
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
              <Warning; 23 mb download>

              but that's exactly the point. and mind that this is just a small one.

              i agree that not every picture will benefit from just making it big.
              (same with the hdr hype). but there truely are scenes that deserve it
              or purposes that demand it. and i am pretty sure that in the near
              future there is an expanding market for this kind.

              cheers
              juergen


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@>
              wrote:
              > >
              > > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an
              appropriate
              > > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
              > > gigapixel range.
              >
              > Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
              > I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html
              > which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920 pixels
              cubefaces.
              > Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the first parts.
              >
              > Warning; 23 mb download
              >
              > I guess around 7000pixels cubefaces is the max I can produce on my
              G5 with
              > CubicConverter
              >
              > I have to say I hate zoomify
              > I remember the zoomify spherical panoramas. They died a quiet
              death.
              >
              > I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some
              reason but I am not
              > interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super
              resolution images on the net in
              > zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.
              >
              > For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.
              >
              > Hans
              >
            • Jook Leung
              For flat panoramas there s a cool sharing site at http://gigapan.org Jook ... Jook Leung Photography 360VR Images - 360 degree Panoramic photography Web:
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                For flat panoramas there's a cool sharing site at http://gigapan.org


                Jook



                On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:

                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader"
                > <panorama@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate
                > > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
                > > gigapixel range.
                >
                > Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
                > I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html
                > which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920 pixels
                > cubefaces.
                > Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the first parts.
                >
                > Warning; 23 mb download
                >
                > I guess around 7000pixels cubefaces is the max I can produce on my
                > G5 with
                > CubicConverter
                >
                > I have to say I hate zoomify
                > I remember the zoomify spherical panoramas. They died a quiet death.
                >
                > I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some reason
                > but I am not
                > interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super
                > resolution images on the net in
                > zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.
                >
                > For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.
                >
                > Hans
                >
                >
                >

                Jook Leung Photography
                360VR Images - 360 degree Panoramic photography
                Web: http://360vr.com
                E-mail: jook@...






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Paul D. DeRocco
                ... I think the point of this particular MS viewer is that it doesn t just download the whole image, it works more like Google Earth, downloading and caching
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                  > From: Hans Nyberg
                  >
                  > Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
                  > I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html
                  > which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920
                  > pixels cubefaces. Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the
                  > first parts.
                  >
                  > Warning; 23 mb download

                  I think the point of this particular MS viewer is that it doesn't just
                  download the whole image, it works more like Google Earth, downloading and
                  caching the parts that the user actually views, at the resolution viewed at.
                  Indeed, the presentation is fairly similar to the Gigapixl Photos on Google
                  Earth, except that they're all flat, not 360s.

                  > I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some
                  > reason but I am not
                  > interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super
                  > resolution images on the net in
                  > zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.
                  >
                  > For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.

                  Do you print other people's big panos? I never do--I just look at them
                  online. For 360s, it's printing that seems pretty uninteresting to me, since
                  they look pretty weird when printed flat.

                  --

                  Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                  Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                • Pablo dAngelo
                  Hi Juergen, ... Google Earth can do this, too. It doesn t have some fancy features of HDView, but its nice to place panos on Google Earth. I have tested it
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                    Hi Juergen,

                    > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate
                    > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
                    > gigapixel range.

                    Google Earth can do this, too. It doesn't have some fancy features of
                    HDView, but its nice to place panos on Google Earth. I have tested it with a
                    40000x10000 cylindrical pano I shot from the Campanile in Berkeley, and it
                    works fine. I have used a self written python script for the creation of the
                    required tiles, but this should also work and is probably a little more
                    comfortable:
                    http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/software/photooverlaycreator.asp
                    Not sure if that progam can convert gigapixel panos, though.

                    This is actually nicer than most of the other viewers, since it will work in
                    linux too ;-)

                    ciao
                    Pablo

                    >
                    > best
                    > juergen
                    >
                    > but we don't need another ms flame though ^^
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In #email-removed# Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                    >> Sometime around 31/10/07 (at 12:39 -0400) Mark D. Fink said:
                    >>
                    >>> Once it
                    >>> is out of beta, it's anyone's guess if MS will make it compatible
                    > with MACs.
                    >>> I wouldn't hold my breath… :o)
                    >> Quite. "Anyone's guess" is one way of putting it.
                    >> "Snowball's chance in hell" is another. Remember,
                    >> this is the company that is known for the
                    >> 'exterminate' approach to all competition,
                    >> wherever they can get away with it and sometimes
                    >> where they can't.
                    >>
                    >> I appreciate the fact that this viewer offers
                    >> something very interesting for certain projects.
                    >> But please remember to support inclusive,
                    >> cross-platform solutions wherever humanly
                    >> possible.
                    >>
                    >> k
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Juergen Schrader
                    yep, i found this on the ivrpa journal today and soon will give it a try. cheers juergen pablo, you got my mail? ... appropriate ... of ... it with a ...
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                      yep, i found this on the ivrpa journal today and soon will give it a
                      try.

                      cheers
                      juergen

                      pablo, you got my mail?


                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pablo dAngelo
                      <pablo.dangelo@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Juergen,
                      >
                      > > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an
                      appropriate
                      > > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
                      > > gigapixel range.
                      >
                      > Google Earth can do this, too. It doesn't have some fancy features
                      of
                      > HDView, but its nice to place panos on Google Earth. I have tested
                      it with a
                      > 40000x10000 cylindrical pano I shot from the Campanile in
                      Berkeley, and it
                      > works fine. I have used a self written python script for the
                      creation of the
                      > required tiles, but this should also work and is probably a little
                      more
                      > comfortable:
                      > http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/software/photooverlaycreator.asp
                      > Not sure if that progam can convert gigapixel panos, though.
                      >
                      > This is actually nicer than most of the other viewers, since it
                      will work in
                      > linux too ;-)
                      >
                      > ciao
                      > Pablo
                      >
                      > >
                      > > best
                      > > juergen
                      > >
                      > > but we don't need another ms flame though ^^
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In #email-removed# Keith Martin <keith@> wrote:
                      > >> Sometime around 31/10/07 (at 12:39 -0400) Mark D. Fink said:
                      > >>
                      > >>> Once it
                      > >>> is out of beta, it's anyone's guess if MS will make it
                      compatible
                      > > with MACs.
                      > >>> I wouldn't hold my breath… :o)
                      > >> Quite. "Anyone's guess" is one way of putting it.
                      > >> "Snowball's chance in hell" is another. Remember,
                      > >> this is the company that is known for the
                      > >> 'exterminate' approach to all competition,
                      > >> wherever they can get away with it and sometimes
                      > >> where they can't.
                      > >>
                      > >> I appreciate the fact that this viewer offers
                      > >> something very interesting for certain projects.
                      > >> But please remember to support inclusive,
                      > >> cross-platform solutions wherever humanly
                      > >> possible.
                      > >>
                      > >> k
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Juergen Schrader
                      thank you jook, i visited their site the other day and really like their approach. but finally i felt i wouldn t want to leave the picture i shot for a
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                        thank you jook,

                        i visited their site the other day and really like their approach.
                        but finally i felt i wouldn't want to leave the picture i shot for a
                        customer at full resolution on an unknown server.

                        cheers
                        juergen

                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Jook Leung <jook360@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > For flat panoramas there's a cool sharing site at http://gigapan.org
                        >
                        >
                        > Jook
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Oct 31, 2007, at 5:22 PM, Hans Nyberg wrote:
                        >
                        > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader"
                        > > <panorama@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an
                        appropriate
                        > > > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
                        > > > gigapixel range.
                        > >
                        > > Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
                        > > I have one online here http://www.panoramas.dk/big/
                        fullscreen1.html
                        > > which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920
                        pixels
                        > > cubefaces.
                        > > Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the first parts.
                        > >
                        > > Warning; 23 mb download
                        > >
                        > > I guess around 7000pixels cubefaces is the max I can produce on
                        my
                        > > G5 with
                        > > CubicConverter
                        > >
                        > > I have to say I hate zoomify
                        > > I remember the zoomify spherical panoramas. They died a quiet
                        death.
                        > >
                        > > I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some
                        reason
                        > > but I am not
                        > > interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super
                        > > resolution images on the net in
                        > > zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.
                        > >
                        > > For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.
                        > >
                        > > Hans
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        > Jook Leung Photography
                        > 360VR Images - 360 degree Panoramic photography
                        > Web: http://360vr.com
                        > E-mail: jook@...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Hans Nyberg
                        ... Not at all. The problem with the Zoomyfy type what ever it is called is that you have to download the tiles again and again. Image always has to update
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > <Warning; 23 mb download>
                          >
                          > but that's exactly the point. and mind that this is just a small one.

                          Not at all.
                          The problem with the Zoomyfy type what ever it is called is that you have to download the
                          tiles again and again.
                          Image always has to update even if you have a 6 mbit connection like me.

                          The QTVR when you make it the right way pointing at the right interesting point updates
                          and stays as you start exploring.
                          Even with a standard ADSL you have a full view on the screen in less than 20 seconds and
                          when it is loaded you can explore what ever you like without the extremely irritating pixel
                          update.

                          Most of these gigapixel images has a real resolution which is much less than they claim.
                          Cut them to half and you can still see the same details.

                          My 5920 cubefaces can easy be reduced to 4500 and you will still have the same
                          experience.

                          And many of them has nothing to give you when zooming in.
                          Take a look at the famous cliff here at Xrez
                          http://www.xrez.com/

                          It is impressing.
                          But what the hack is impressing in zooming in on some stones.
                          50% zoom is enough to give me the felling of the cliffs.

                          The full image is what impresses me as a natural wonder.

                          Hans
                        • Jeffrey Martin
                          We *can* convert gigapixel panos / sphericals, into the googlemap and photoOverlay format simultaneously (with the additional option to put hotspots in the
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                            We *can* convert gigapixel panos / sphericals, into the googlemap and
                            photoOverlay format simultaneously (with the additional option to put
                            hotspots in the google map version...)
                            One example (still under development - http://krumlov.360cities.net/?layer=1 )

                            We do not (yet) offer an uploading interface, but whoever is
                            interested, feel free to send a message to me off-list.

                            Jeffrey


                            >
                            > I have used a self written python script for the creation of the
                            > required tiles, but this should also work and is probably a little more
                            > comfortable:
                            > http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/software/photooverlaycreator.asp
                            > Not sure if that progam can convert gigapixel panos, though.
                            >






                            --
                            ------------------
                            www.360cities.net
                            www.prague360.com
                            www.vrlog.net
                            tel. +420 608 076 502
                            skype jeffrey.s.martin
                          • Sacha Griffin
                            Zoomify isn t bad on a fast connection. On slow connections, it s beyond annoying. You are waiting 90% of the time for tile downloads. There seems to be a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                              Zoomify isn't bad on a fast connection. On slow connections, it's beyond
                              annoying. You are waiting 90% of the time for tile downloads.



                              There seems to be a coding problem with the hd view stuff.

                              It downloaded ALL interim tiles for before showing the tiles suitable for
                              the view. Not cool.

                              Ideally, tiles should be downloaded based on some the users connection speed
                              to prevent further waits, except for sphericals. :-)

                              Considering no one zooms for those anyway. Though tiles should be downloaded
                              at higher resolutions for different screen resolutions.



                              Sacha Griffin
                              Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                              www.southern-digital.com
                              www.seeit360.net
                              www.ezphotosafe.com
                              404-551-4275
                              404-731-7798

                              _____

                              From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                              Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:22 PM
                              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: las vegas boulevard - hd view



                              --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                              "Juergen Schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an appropriate
                              > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/2
                              > gigapixel range.

                              Your 20.000 pixels should work fine in QTVR.
                              I have one online here http://www.panorama
                              <http://www.panoramas.dk/big/fullscreen1.html> s.dk/big/fullscreen1.html
                              which as far as I remember is around 19.000 pixels and 5920 pixels
                              cubefaces.
                              Made with 5x5 tiles it loads very fast the first parts.

                              Warning; 23 mb download

                              I guess around 7000pixels cubefaces is the max I can produce on my G5 with
                              CubicConverter

                              I have to say I hate zoomify
                              I remember the zoomify spherical panoramas. They died a quiet death.

                              I can not see the HDview in my Parallels Windows XP for some reason but I am
                              not
                              interested in it either. The whole idea with all these super resolution
                              images on the net in
                              zoomable versions are to me very uninteresting.

                              For gigantic prints -Yes but seeing it in computer No.

                              Hans





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • greg downing
                              ... Hans, You will have to refer the group to the specific image in the gallery, our images on our home page loads a different image at random from our gallery
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                                >Take a look at the famous cliff here at Xrez
                                >http://www.xrez.com/

                                Hans,

                                You will have to refer the group to the specific image in the gallery,
                                our images on our home page loads a different image at random from our
                                gallery each time the page is reloaded.

                                -Greg Downing
                                http://www.xrez.com/
                                http://www.gregdowning.com/
                              • Hans Nyberg
                                ... Sorry, never seen anything else but ElCapitan in different versions on the frontpage, Might be by chance. I can see if I reload I can get a couple of
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "greg downing" <greg@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >Take a look at the famous cliff here at Xrez
                                  > >http://www.xrez.com/
                                  >
                                  > Hans,
                                  >
                                  > You will have to refer the group to the specific image in the gallery,
                                  > our images on our home page loads a different image at random from our
                                  > gallery each time the page is reloaded.

                                  Sorry, never seen anything else but ElCapitan in different versions on the frontpage,
                                  Might be by chance. I can see if I reload I can get a couple of others.

                                  Hans
                                • Juergen Schrader
                                  here we go: http://www.schrader-air.de/panorama/lasvegas.kml problem maybe the mime types in your browser and/or my server. i have no idea how to fix this. i
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 31, 2007
                                    here we go:
                                    http://www.schrader-air.de/panorama/lasvegas.kml

                                    problem maybe the mime types in your browser and/or my server. i have
                                    no idea how to fix this. i only was able to launch ge while using
                                    firefox. ie and opera would open the kml as text file.

                                    enjoy
                                    juergen

                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Juergen
                                    Schrader" <panorama@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > yep, i found this on the ivrpa journal today and soon will give it
                                    a
                                    > try.
                                    >
                                    > cheers
                                    > juergen
                                    >
                                    > pablo, you got my mail?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Pablo dAngelo
                                    > <pablo.dangelo@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Hi Juergen,
                                    > >
                                    > > > i agree and would be happy if one could direct me to an
                                    > appropriate
                                    > > > tool a non coder can use to show sphericals at least in the 1/
                                    2
                                    > > > gigapixel range.
                                    > >
                                    > > Google Earth can do this, too. It doesn't have some fancy
                                    features
                                    > of
                                    > > HDView, but its nice to place panos on Google Earth. I have
                                    tested
                                    > it with a
                                    > > 40000x10000 cylindrical pano I shot from the Campanile in
                                    > Berkeley, and it
                                    > > works fine. I have used a self written python script for the
                                    > creation of the
                                    > > required tiles, but this should also work and is probably a
                                    little
                                    > more
                                    > > comfortable:
                                    > > http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/software/photooverlaycreator.asp
                                    > > Not sure if that progam can convert gigapixel panos, though.
                                    > >
                                    > > This is actually nicer than most of the other viewers, since it
                                    > will work in
                                    > > linux too ;-)
                                    > >
                                    > > ciao
                                    > > Pablo
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > best
                                    > > > juergen
                                    > > >
                                    > > > but we don't need another ms flame though ^^
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > --- In #email-removed# Keith Martin <keith@> wrote:
                                    > > >> Sometime around 31/10/07 (at 12:39 -0400) Mark D. Fink said:
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>> Once it
                                    > > >>> is out of beta, it's anyone's guess if MS will make it
                                    > compatible
                                    > > > with MACs.
                                    > > >>> I wouldn't hold my breath… :o)
                                    > > >> Quite. "Anyone's guess" is one way of putting it.
                                    > > >> "Snowball's chance in hell" is another. Remember,
                                    > > >> this is the company that is known for the
                                    > > >> 'exterminate' approach to all competition,
                                    > > >> wherever they can get away with it and sometimes
                                    > > >> where they can't.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> I appreciate the fact that this viewer offers
                                    > > >> something very interesting for certain projects.
                                    > > >> But please remember to support inclusive,
                                    > > >> cross-platform solutions wherever humanly
                                    > > >> possible.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> k
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    >
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