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Flash Panoramas

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  • Sacha Griffin
    At the risk of sounding OT, hypocritical and what not, I d like to ask a question to the techie community among us. Flash Panoramas has quickly taken off and
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 20, 2007
      At the risk of sounding OT, hypocritical and what not, I'd like to ask a
      question to the techie community among us.
      Flash Panoramas has quickly taken off and become the lead for the quick
      fact, it accepts xml for design. This means, you can read some
      documentation, use the helper editor and actually create an embedded
      interface without a huge flash design program with which you need to read
      and understand a 500 page book. Thomas would be quick to duplicate this
      method.

      My question is this... How can one create an overlay in which it remains the
      same size in regard to the window.. similar to the native static hotspot..
      but does is not affected by the zoom of fpp?

      Meaning you place a logo in some corner, and resize the window from
      2000x1000 to 800x600 and it remains in relative size, but also does not grow
      or expand when zooming in and out.

      I assume this is currently only supported by an actual flash editor. I have
      seen a brail tour incorporating the correct hotspot navigation, but it
      apparently only embedded the panorama and did its own thing.

      FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions for
      many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh so
      frustrating.

      Sacha Griffin
      Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
      www.southern-digital.com
      www.seeit360.net
      www.ezphotosafe.com
      404-551-4275
      404-731-7798
    • Andrei Zdetovetchi
      Sacha, To simply place an image in the lower right corner, for example, you must use the hotspots plugin and write the following code in the xml file:
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
        Sacha,

        To simply place an image in the lower right corner, for example, you must use the hotspots plugin and write the following code in the xml file:

        <spot id="logo" url="logo.png" static="1" salign="RB" align="RB" depth="1" />

        This just defines a spot in the right bottom corner and it stays there, no matter what.

        Also I suggest to check the forum, at flashpanoramas.com/forum/ where you will surely find help regarding your specific flashpanoramas questions :)

        Best regards,
        Andrei Zdetovetchi

        the panoblogus - http://www.csvd.ro/panoblog/
        flickr - http://www.flickr.com/photos/zdeto/
        ---


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Sacha Griffin <sachagriffin@...>
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:15:06 AM
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Flash Panoramas














        At the risk of sounding OT, hypocritical and what not, I'd like to ask a

        question to the techie community among us.

        Flash Panoramas has quickly taken off and become the lead for the quick

        fact, it accepts xml for design. This means, you can read some

        documentation, use the helper editor and actually create an embedded

        interface without a huge flash design program with which you need to read

        and understand a 500 page book. Thomas would be quick to duplicate this

        method.



        My question is this... How can one create an overlay in which it remains the

        same size in regard to the window.. similar to the native static hotspot..

        but does is not affected by the zoom of fpp?



        Meaning you place a logo in some corner, and resize the window from

        2000x1000 to 800x600 and it remains in relative size, but also does not grow

        or expand when zooming in and out.



        I assume this is currently only supported by an actual flash editor. I have

        seen a brail tour incorporating the correct hotspot navigation, but it

        apparently only embedded the panorama and did its own thing.



        FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions for

        many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh so

        frustrating.



        Sacha Griffin

        Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia

        www.southern- digital.com

        www.seeit360. net

        www.ezphotosafe. com

        404-551-4275

        404-731-7798











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Hans Nyberg
        ... Yes as you can see from the forum there is a large need for a Gui. I use to say there are 3 types of VR photographers. 1. The tech nerds who are fantastic
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
          >
          > At the risk of sounding OT, hypocritical and what not, I'd like to ask a
          > question to the techie community among us.
          > Flash Panoramas has quickly taken off and become the lead for the quick
          > fact, it accepts xml for design. This means, you can read some
          > documentation, use the helper editor and actually create an embedded
          > interface without a huge flash design program with which you need to read
          > and understand a 500 page book. Thomas would be quick to duplicate this
          > method.
          >
          > My question is this... How can one create an overlay in which it remains the
          > same size in regard to the window.. similar to the native static hotspot..
          > but does is not affected by the zoom of fpp?
          >
          > Meaning you place a logo in some corner, and resize the window from
          > 2000x1000 to 800x600 and it remains in relative size, but also does not grow
          > or expand when zooming in and out.
          >
          > I assume this is currently only supported by an actual flash editor. I have
          > seen a brail tour incorporating the correct hotspot navigation, but it
          > apparently only embedded the panorama and did its own thing.
          >
          > FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions for
          > many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh so
          > frustrating.

          Yes as you can see from the forum there is a large need for a Gui.

          I use to say there are 3 types of VR photographers.

          1. The tech nerds who are fantastic programmers but if they are to design a website they
          make something that looks like it was made in 1994.
          2. The creative photographer who does fantastic amazing panoramas
          3. The creative nerds who can do both. They are rare, I only know a handful of them.

          We who believes we are of the second type need the other 2.
          Unfortunately people like Denis have not understood the need of making a simple drag
          and drop Gui for us who have trouble with the coding.

          I assume what you are talking about can be done just as you ad one of the navigation
          buttons or as you do a map like I done on this test page.
          http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/

          This page took me 2 days to figure out mostly by pasting codes from different sites and
          testing them until I got it working as I wanted.
          We need a Gui that can do this just as easy as we can do it in QTVR with CubicConnector.

          For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the same map.
          It took me 15 minutes to do this http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
          And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.

          This one is 16mb as I have made it as a single movie but you can of course just save the
          movies as individual mov.

          The problem with the QTVR tour is that the map is scaling and this means that it is
          unreadable when you scale down and get pixalated when you scale up.
          And the map proportions will change if you do not lock the aspect ratio
          And of course you do not get the fancy transitions (even if it actually could be done also in
          QTVR)

          When someone makes a Mac/PC Gui for flashpanoramas which can do most of the
          functions you can achieve with the viewer in a way just as simple as Cubic Connector he
          could easy sell it for $200-400. There will be a large need for it when VR Photographers
          begin to understand the possibilities.

          Hans
        • John Houghton
          ... Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black window. This is on Win XP and IE7. John
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
            >
            > For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the
            > same map. It took me 15 minutes to do this
            > http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
            > And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.

            Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black
            window. This is on Win XP and IE7.

            John
          • Yuval Levy
            ... FF2 WinXP: when I click on the map button the map appears but I can no longer pan. Also the title does not match. But of course, for 15 minutes of work
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
              John Houghton wrote:
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
              >> For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the
              >> same map. It took me 15 minutes to do this
              >> http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
              >> And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.
              >
              > Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black
              > window. This is on Win XP and IE7.

              FF2 WinXP: when I click on the map button the map appears but I can no
              longer pan. Also the title does not match. But of course, for 15 minutes
              of work that's a remarkably productive result.

              Yuv
            • Hans Nyberg
              ... Yes thats right, on of the functions you do not have in Quicktime at least not with an overlay map in CubicConnector. This is not an official linked page
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...> wrote:
                >
                > John Houghton wrote:
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
                > >> For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the
                > >> same map. It took me 15 minutes to do this
                > >> http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
                > >> And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.
                > >
                > > Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black
                > > window. This is on Win XP and IE7.
                >
                > FF2 WinXP: when I click on the map button the map appears but I can no
                > longer pan. Also the title does not match. But of course, for 15 minutes
                > of work that's a remarkably productive result.

                Yes thats right, on of the functions you do not have in Quicktime at least not with an
                overlay map in CubicConnector.

                This is not an official linked page of any kind. Just a fast test page for you to see.
                Have not done any SEO for that.

                Hans
              • Patrick Cheatham
                ... Hey Sacha: I m probably late to the party since I m on digest mode, but... This is extremeley easy to do using FPP. See examples all over the place, but
                Message 7 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                  > My question is this... How can one create an overlay in which it remains the
                  > same size in regard to the window.. similar to the native static hotspot..
                  > but does is not affected by the zoom of fpp?
                  >
                  > Meaning you place a logo in some corner, and resize the window from
                  > 2000x1000 to 800x600 and it remains in relative size, but also does not grow
                  > or expand when zooming in and out.
                  >

                  Hey Sacha:

                  I'm probably late to the party since I'm on digest mode, but... This is extremeley easy to
                  do using FPP. See examples all over the place, but there are several at my site (http://
                  cheathamlane.net).

                  Basically, you set up a type of spot in the XML.

                  > FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions for
                  > many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh so
                  > frustrating.

                  The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP documentation leaves
                  you confused. :-)

                  Cheers,

                  Patrick
                • Hans Nyberg
                  ... Sorry I had not tested it in Explorer . Have updated it with some changes, it works now at least it does in my IE6 and in Firefox on XP. Had forgot all the
                  Message 8 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "John Houghton" <j.houghton@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the
                    > > same map. It took me 15 minutes to do this
                    > > http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
                    > > And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.
                    >
                    > Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black
                    > window. This is on Win XP and IE7.

                    Sorry I had not tested it in Explorer . Have updated it with some changes, it works now at
                    least it does in my IE6 and in Firefox on XP.

                    Had forgot all the weird table behavior in IE.

                    Hans
                  • Sacha Griffin
                    Yes, its cool. But the problem I was trying to work around is.. for map for example is great on 1650x1080. Not too large and not to small. But on 800x600..
                    Message 9 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                      Yes, its cool. But the problem I was trying to work around is.. for map for
                      example is great on 1650x1080.

                      Not too large and not to small. But on 800x600.. whoah!.. Its way too big.

                      A hotspot relative to the windows width.

                      FPP has something that almost works .. a scaleable hotspot but this hotspot
                      will change size when you zoom.

                      The hotspot editor is pretty decent. You only need to attach the swf to the
                      xml.

                      A good application would be nice.. perhaps built with air to load and edit
                      xml, and images, and attach various plugins.

                      Mostly to ensure, all the parameters are visible and the xml is
                      syntactically correct.



                      Sacha Griffin
                      Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                      www.southern-digital.com
                      www.seeit360.net
                      www.ezphotosafe.com
                      404-551-4275
                      404-731-7798

                      _____

                      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                      Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                      Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:11 AM
                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Flash Panoramas

                      I assume what you are talking about can be done just as you ad one of the
                      navigation
                      buttons or as you do a map like I done on this test page.
                      http://www.panorama <http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/> s.dk/moen/

                      This page took me 2 days to figure out mostly by pasting codes from
                      different sites and
                      testing them until I got it working as I wanted.
                      We need a Gui that can do this just as easy as we can do it in QTVR with
                      CubicConnector.



                      .


                      <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18227848/grpspId=1705006496/msgI
                      d=13751/stime=1192957854/nc1=4025304/nc2=4936875/nc3=3848644>




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Chris Thomas
                      Hans. I agree with you.. those of us that aren t software gurus need help! Your map is terrific but suffers from a frustratingly common problem. It doesn t
                      Message 10 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                        Hans.

                        I agree with you.. those of us that aren't software gurus need help!

                        Your map is terrific but suffers from a frustratingly common problem.
                        It doesn't tell the viewer which pano is presently displaying. We need a
                        method of displaying the loaded pano hotspot differently than those that
                        aren't loaded.

                        I think I've seen it used once or twice, if it could be combined with the
                        compass tool....
                        It would make "tours" less frustrating....which I think we need to do to
                        take VR to the next level of adoption commercially.

                        Personally.... I couldn't even get a map up on my panos at this point!

                        Cheers
                        chris

                        Chris Thomas
                        Photographer
                        cell... 403-615-1212
                        In North America
                        call... 1-800-870-5110
                        http://www.christhomas.com

                        [Chris Thomas] snip
                        The problem with the QTVR tour is that the map is scaling and this means
                        that it is
                        unreadable when you scale down and get pixalated when you scale up.
                        And the map proportions will change if you do not lock the aspect ratio
                        And of course you do not get the fancy transitions (even if it actually
                        could be done also in
                        QTVR)

                        When someone makes a Mac/PC Gui for flashpanoramas which can do most of the
                        functions you can achieve with the viewer in a way just as simple as Cubic
                        Connector he
                        could easy sell it for $200-400. There will be a large need for it when VR
                        Photographers
                        begin to understand the possibilities.

                        Hans
                        .
                      • Chris Thomas
                        Hi Hans I m also on XP (Media Edition) with IE 7 It loads for me and works fine.. But without a progress bar there is only the tiny loading circle in the
                        Message 11 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                          Hi Hans

                          I'm also on XP (Media Edition) with IE 7
                          It loads for me and works fine..
                          But without a progress bar there is only the tiny "loading circle" in the
                          upper part of the browser to indicate that anything is happening.

                          A loader is needed, or only the most "experienced" pano views will feel
                          confident that anything is happening.

                          Works the same in Firefox 2.

                          Lastly....
                          I've been working with FPP lately using the new Flash player....
                          all Quicktime is looking inferior....
                          Java and Quicktime is jerky by comparison.

                          Cheers
                          chris


                          Chris Thomas
                          Photographer
                          cell... 403-615-1212
                          In North America
                          call... 1-800-870-5110
                          http://www.christhomas.com

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of John Houghton
                          Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:40 AM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Flash Panoramas

                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > For fun I yesterday did the same page in CubicConnector using the
                          > same map. It took me 15 minutes to do this
                          > http://www.panoramas.dk/moen/QTVR.html
                          > And I have never used CubicConnector for anything like this before.

                          Hans, After a lengthy download, I see only a grey banner above a black
                          window. This is on Win XP and IE7.

                          John
                          snip
                        • Chris Thomas
                          Hi Patrick.. The AutoPlayer is very cool. Everything plays but I got a couple of Flash Player warnings. TypeError: Error #2007: Parameter text must be
                          Message 12 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                            Hi Patrick..



                            The AutoPlayer is very cool.

                            Everything plays but I got a couple of Flash Player warnings.



                            TypeError: Error #2007: Parameter text must be non-null.

                            at flash.text::TextField/set htmlText()

                            at
                            _dynamicHotspotText_fla::MainTimeline/_dynamicHotspotText_fla::frame1()



                            pressed "continue and received:



                            Error: Error #2099: The loading object is not sufficiently loaded to provide
                            this information.

                            at flash.display::LoaderInfo/get childAllowsParent()

                            at AttributesSpot/set smoothing()

                            at AttributesSpot/::loadComplete()



                            pressing continue it loads and works great.



                            Cheers

                            chris



                            Chris Thomas

                            Photographer

                            cell... 403-615-1212

                            In North America

                            call... 1-800-870-5110

                            <http://www.christhomas.com/> http://www.christhomas.com



                            [Chris Thomas] snip

                            Hey Sacha:

                            I'm probably late to the party since I'm on digest mode, but... This is
                            extremeley easy to
                            do using FPP. See examples all over the place, but there are several at my
                            site (http://
                            cheathamlane.net).

                            Basically, you set up a type of spot in the XML.

                            > FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions
                            for
                            > many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh
                            so
                            > frustrating.

                            The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP
                            documentation leaves
                            you confused. :-)

                            Cheers,

                            Patrick





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Keith Martin
                            ... I m glad to hear it. I hadn t seen any response when I asked a question, but that was only the one specific question and I know web forum activity often
                            Message 13 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                              Sacha Griffin wrote:

                              > > FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered questions for
                              >> many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing, but oh so
                              > > frustrating.


                              Patrick Cheatham commented:

                              >The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP
                              >documentation leaves you confused. :-)


                              I'm glad to hear it. I hadn't seen any response when I asked a
                              question, but that was only the one specific question and I know web
                              forum activity often goes in cycles. I'll stop by there again when I
                              get stuck on something.

                              But more to the point, I must say my feeling is exactly the same as
                              Sacha's: it seems *very* interesting, but it is equally frustrating.
                              Lively forums are excellent, but of course not as good as excellent
                              documentation... :-)

                              Anyway, I hope to have more time for experimenting and review-writing
                              very soon, which will be good. (A product comparison of the various
                              Mac-based VR output options would be even better, but that's not
                              actually planned as yet.)

                              k
                            • Scott Witte
                              Sacha, I haven t actually tried this, yet, but I would look at the embedded pano example. Have the embedding (frame) flash application scale to 100% of the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                Sacha,

                                I haven't actually tried this, yet, but I would look at the embedded
                                pano example. Have the embedding (frame) flash application scale to 100%
                                of the window. make your logo, controls and everything else part of
                                that. It should do exactly what you are after without the zoom in/out
                                issues you had.

                                Worth a try, anyway.

                                Scott

                                Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                > Yes, its cool. But the problem I was trying to work around is.. for map for
                                > example is great on 1650x1080.
                                >
                                > Not too large and not to small. But on 800x600.. whoah!.. Its way too big.
                                >

                                --
                                Scott Witte
                                ---------------------------------
                                *WITTE *ON* LOCATION*
                                414.345.9660
                                www.scottwitte.com <http://www.scottwitte.com>

                                Member, APA | Midwest





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Patrick Cheatham
                                ... _dynamicHotspotText_fla::MainTimeline/_dynamicHotspotText_fla::frame1() ... provide ... is ... at my ... questions ... but oh
                                Message 15 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Thomas <chris@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Patrick..
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > The AutoPlayer is very cool.
                                  >
                                  > Everything plays but I got a couple of Flash Player warnings.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > TypeError: Error #2007: Parameter text must be non-null.
                                  >
                                  > at flash.text::TextField/set htmlText()
                                  >
                                  > at
                                  >
                                  _dynamicHotspotText_fla::MainTimeline/_dynamicHotspotText_fla::frame1()
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > pressed "continue and received:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Error: Error #2099: The loading object is not sufficiently loaded to
                                  provide
                                  > this information.
                                  >
                                  > at flash.display::LoaderInfo/get childAllowsParent()
                                  >
                                  > at AttributesSpot/set smoothing()
                                  >
                                  > at AttributesSpot/::loadComplete()
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > pressing continue it loads and works great.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Cheers
                                  >
                                  > chris
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Chris Thomas
                                  >
                                  > Photographer
                                  >
                                  > cell... 403-615-1212
                                  >
                                  > In North America
                                  >
                                  > call... 1-800-870-5110
                                  >
                                  > <http://www.christhomas.com/> http://www.christhomas.com
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Chris Thomas] snip
                                  >
                                  > Hey Sacha:
                                  >
                                  > I'm probably late to the party since I'm on digest mode, but... This
                                  is
                                  > extremeley easy to
                                  > do using FPP. See examples all over the place, but there are several
                                  at my
                                  > site (http://
                                  > cheathamlane.net).
                                  >
                                  > Basically, you set up a type of spot in the XML.
                                  >
                                  > > FPP has a LOT of potential, but there are a lot of unanswered
                                  questions
                                  > for
                                  > > many of its intricacies which makes it very tempting, tantalizing,
                                  but oh
                                  > so
                                  > > frustrating.
                                  >
                                  > The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP
                                  > documentation leaves
                                  > you confused. :-)
                                  >
                                  > Cheers,
                                  >
                                  > Patrick
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Patrick Cheatham
                                  ... Ha, yes... But, it s worlds better, IMO than, say, the LiveStage Pro documentation and tutorials were... ;-) Different animals, I know... I think what many
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                                    > Patrick Cheatham commented:
                                    >
                                    > >The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP
                                    > >documentation leaves you confused. :-)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > I'm glad to hear it. I hadn't seen any response when I asked a
                                    > question, but that was only the one specific question and I know web
                                    > forum activity often goes in cycles. I'll stop by there again when I
                                    > get stuck on something.
                                    >
                                    > But more to the point, I must say my feeling is exactly the same as
                                    > Sacha's: it seems *very* interesting, but it is equally frustrating.
                                    > Lively forums are excellent, but of course not as good as excellent
                                    > documentation... :-)

                                    Ha, yes... But, it's worlds better, IMO than, say, the LiveStage Pro documentation and
                                    tutorials were... ;-) Different animals, I know...

                                    I think what many people are experiencing is actually a lack of documentation for the un-
                                    Flash initiated. If you have a handle on things Flash already, then you can do many many
                                    things with FPP without having to do too much with FPP. :) FPP "out of the box" isn't meant
                                    to be a one stop shop, I think (but it may be heading that way?).

                                    I agree also, though, that FPP could benefit from more lower-common-denominator
                                    documentation and how-to info. I also know firsthand how difficult it is for the lone
                                    developer to find time and wherewithal for writing the documentation. One "low rent" way
                                    for there to be documentation is for people to continue interacting and assisting each
                                    other within the FPP forums (or here, wherever). The written record is at least searchable,
                                    even if not indexed with a table of contents. :)

                                    P
                                  • Hans Nyberg
                                    ... Actually my impression was that you did not want it scaled. Scaling any bitmap will result in problems like the ones i did demonstrate by the QTVR example
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Scott Witte <scottwitte@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Sacha,
                                      >
                                      > I haven't actually tried this, yet, but I would look at the embedded
                                      > pano example. Have the embedding (frame) flash application scale to 100%
                                      > of the window. make your logo, controls and everything else part of
                                      > that. It should do exactly what you are after without the zoom in/out
                                      > issues you had.
                                      >
                                      > Worth a try, anyway.
                                      >
                                      > Scott
                                      >
                                      > Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                      > > Yes, its cool. But the problem I was trying to work around is.. for map for
                                      > > example is great on 1650x1080.
                                      > >
                                      > > Not too large and not to small. But on 800x600.. whoah!.. Its way too big.

                                      Actually my impression was that you did not want it scaled.
                                      Scaling any bitmap will result in problems like the ones i did demonstrate by the QTVR
                                      example with the map.

                                      If you want a logo or a Map to be scaled from lets 800x600 to fullscreen you have to make
                                      a vectorbased map. Otherwise it will be unreadable.
                                      Even if you make a png large enough for the fullscreen it will look very bad on the small
                                      display.

                                      The advantage in flashpanoramas is that you easy ad it at pixel size and it does NOT scale.

                                      Hans
                                    • Yuval Levy
                                      ... *tediously* searchable, and particularly in web based forums along with an incredible amount of clutter (who cares the date when a member joined?),
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                        Patrick Cheatham wrote:
                                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                                        > One "low rent" way
                                        > for there to be documentation is for people to continue interacting and assisting each
                                        > other within the FPP forums (or here, wherever). The written record is at least searchable,
                                        > even if not indexed with a table of contents. :)

                                        *tediously* searchable, and particularly in web based forums along with
                                        an incredible amount of clutter (who cares the date when a member
                                        joined?), extremly high noise to signal ratio and lack of authority (how
                                        can you trust those anonymous handles? how do you know that the SWF file
                                        that is offered for a download won't transmit a virus of some sort to
                                        your viewers?)

                                        Like Hans said rightly before, there is a group of non-geeky
                                        photographers (and of geeks that prefer to put their skills and time
                                        elsewhere) willing to pay for a proper, clean tool, and that includes
                                        documentation.

                                        It's not just about the index. It is IMO the same reason why SPi-V is
                                        not as widely adopted as it could be. Online documentation is for the
                                        few who takes intravenous shots of internet. It is good for reference
                                        once you know the ins and outs of something. But it can't replace a
                                        good, structured, progressively built handbook, possibly in PDF or other
                                        *printable* format which is *much* more conducive to a learning
                                        experience. Even the best displays nowadays are about five time less
                                        efficient in terms of reading / absorbing knowledge. I'm sorry for the
                                        tree huggers out there, but I still print the information that I find
                                        useful on the net, and read it in places and times when I am far away
                                        from the computer, hand writing notes on them. Digital display
                                        technology is at least ten years away from offering similar reading
                                        efficiency, and even if it did, forums with their "customized" choices
                                        of colors and fonts make it for a most horrible reading experience. My
                                        eyes are trained for a specific font and background color and I love to
                                        have that for all of my mail and news readers. Fixed width fonts may be
                                        boring to the designer, but they are the best type of font for
                                        quick-reading on no matter what display. The eye recognizes the number
                                        of spaces in between the identified letters more easily and the brain
                                        fits in the missing bits based on the few letters it had to recognize.
                                        Try to time yourself reading text on a few web based forums, then on
                                        your favorite mail client, then on a proper book and then on a few texts
                                        printed in courier fixed with font black on white. You might not get to
                                        former US President JFK amazing 1200 words per minute, but you will
                                        notice differences based on the different media.

                                        yuv
                                      • Scott Witte
                                        ... Agreed. But the question was how to do it, not whether it was the best approach. And, as you say, if you make the graphics vector based it isn t a problem.
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                          Hans Nyberg wrote:
                                          > The advantage in flashpanoramas is that you easy ad it at pixel size and it does NOT scale.
                                          >
                                          Agreed. But the question was how to do it, not whether it was the best
                                          approach. And, as you say, if you make the graphics vector based it
                                          isn't a problem.


                                          --
                                          Scott Witte
                                          ---------------------------------
                                          *WITTE *ON* LOCATION*
                                          414.345.9660
                                          www.scottwitte.com <http://www.scottwitte.com>

                                          Member, APA | Midwest





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Sacha Griffin
                                          I m with you Yuv, However, on denis s defense he has become popular for the fact that it IS easier to author something despite all the drawbacks. With flash
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                            I'm with you Yuv, However, on denis's defense he has become popular for the
                                            fact that it IS easier to author something despite all the drawbacks.

                                            With flash panoramas, you CAN use images and xml only and make SOMETHING.
                                            With pano2vr you still need a flash authoring environment.

                                            SPIV and deval vr aren't quite there for the plugin issue.. but deval vr
                                            still is very nice. SPIV I think is almost completely taken in by the latest
                                            flash players.

                                            I also agree with printed materials.. I still buy technical books. I once
                                            downloaded free ebooks, but now I pay for the printed version at least until
                                            a decent portable tablet comes out.



                                            Sacha Griffin
                                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                            www.southern-digital.com
                                            www.seeit360.net
                                            www.ezphotosafe.com
                                            404-551-4275
                                            404-731-7798

                                            _____

                                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                            Behalf Of Yuval Levy
                                            Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:41 AM
                                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Flash Panoramas



                                            Patrick Cheatham wrote:
                                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                            yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                                            > One "low rent" way
                                            > for there to be documentation is for people to continue interacting and
                                            assisting each
                                            > other within the FPP forums (or here, wherever). The written record is at
                                            least searchable,
                                            > even if not indexed with a table of contents. :)

                                            *tediously* searchable, and particularly in web based forums along with
                                            an incredible amount of clutter (who cares the date when a member
                                            joined?), extremly high noise to signal ratio and lack of authority (how
                                            can you trust those anonymous handles? how do you know that the SWF file
                                            that is offered for a download won't transmit a virus of some sort to
                                            your viewers?)

                                            Like Hans said rightly before, there is a group of non-geeky
                                            photographers (and of geeks that prefer to put their skills and time
                                            elsewhere) willing to pay for a proper, clean tool, and that includes
                                            documentation.

                                            It's not just about the index. It is IMO the same reason why SPi-V is
                                            not as widely adopted as it could be. Online documentation is for the
                                            few who takes intravenous shots of internet. It is good for reference
                                            once you know the ins and outs of something. But it can't replace a
                                            good, structured, progressively built handbook, possibly in PDF or other
                                            *printable* format which is *much* more conducive to a learning
                                            experience. Even the best displays nowadays are about five time less
                                            efficient in terms of reading / absorbing knowledge. I'm sorry for the
                                            tree huggers out there, but I still print the information that I find
                                            useful on the net, and read it in places and times when I am far away
                                            from the computer, hand writing notes on them. Digital display
                                            technology is at least ten years away from offering similar reading
                                            efficiency, and even if it did, forums with their "customized" choices
                                            of colors and fonts make it for a most horrible reading experience. My
                                            eyes are trained for a specific font and background color and I love to
                                            have that for all of my mail and news readers. Fixed width fonts may be
                                            boring to the designer, but they are the best type of font for
                                            quick-reading on no matter what display. The eye recognizes the number
                                            of spaces in between the identified letters more easily and the brain
                                            fits in the missing bits based on the few letters it had to recognize.
                                            Try to time yourself reading text on a few web based forums, then on
                                            your favorite mail client, then on a proper book and then on a few texts
                                            printed in courier fixed with font black on white. You might not get to
                                            former US President JFK amazing 1200 words per minute, but you will
                                            notice differences based on the different media.

                                            yuv





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Yuval Levy
                                            ... mine was not a critique of Denis nor of FPP, which I stated already a year ago is the best Flash VR player out there. ... exactly *the* reason for my
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Oct 21, 2007
                                              Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                              > I'm with you Yuv, However, on denis's defense he has become popular for the
                                              > fact that it IS easier to author something despite all the drawbacks.

                                              mine was not a critique of Denis nor of FPP, which I stated already a
                                              year ago is the best Flash VR player out there.


                                              > With flash panoramas, you CAN use images and xml only and make SOMETHING.
                                              > With pano2vr you still need a flash authoring environment.

                                              exactly *the* reason for my strong preference in favor of FPP.


                                              > SPIV and deval vr aren't quite there for the plugin issue.. but deval vr
                                              > still is very nice. SPIV I think is almost completely taken in by the latest
                                              > flash players.

                                              I still find SPi-V to be the best VR player. It is at disadvantage over
                                              FPP in terms of potential audience, but the Shockwave Player's installed
                                              based is increasing, as is the potential target audience (GPU
                                              requirements are now met by most integrated chipsets).

                                              The beauty of the combination FPP + SPi-V is that I can use the exact
                                              same imagery, and programmatically generate XML that does almost the
                                              same thing - SPi-V still has a number of tricks up its sleeve that FPP
                                              can't do because of plugin limitation.

                                              Also the SPi-V format is supported natively by FreePV, which ensures
                                              that the file format (XML + images) will survive even if the Shockwave
                                              plugin collapses (something I think is extremely unlikely).


                                              > I also agree with printed materials.. I still buy technical books. I once
                                              > downloaded free ebooks, but now I pay for the printed version at least until
                                              > a decent portable tablet comes out.

                                              decent screens are at least a decade away. there was something out there
                                              about digital ink (i.e. reprintable paper) but it is also still in the
                                              realm of labs and not on the store shelves.

                                              I might do the Give 1 Get 1 at <http://www.xogiving.org/> because it is
                                              for a good cause. (sorry, I wanted to plug this positive initiative here).

                                              Yuv
                                            • gabriel s
                                              Hi I agree with Yuv re; hard copy. I print out every documentation, can reference it any time. Gabriel Soren ... *tediously* searchable, and particularly in
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Oct 22, 2007
                                                Hi
                                                I agree with Yuv re; hard copy. I print out every documentation, can reference it any time.
                                                Gabriel Soren

                                                Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...> wrote: Patrick Cheatham wrote:
                                                > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                                                > One "low rent" way
                                                > for there to be documentation is for people to continue interacting and assisting each
                                                > other within the FPP forums (or here, wherever). The written record is at least searchable,
                                                > even if not indexed with a table of contents. :)

                                                *tediously* searchable, and particularly in web based forums along with
                                                an incredible amount of clutter (who cares the date when a member
                                                joined?), extremly high noise to signal ratio and lack of authority (how
                                                can you trust those anonymous handles? how do you know that the SWF file
                                                that is offered for a download won't transmit a virus of some sort to
                                                your viewers?)

                                                Like Hans said rightly before, there is a group of non-geeky
                                                photographers (and of geeks that prefer to put their skills and time
                                                elsewhere) willing to pay for a proper, clean tool, and that includes
                                                documentation.

                                                It's not just about the index. It is IMO the same reason why SPi-V is
                                                not as widely adopted as it could be. Online documentation is for the
                                                few who takes intravenous shots of internet. It is good for reference
                                                once you know the ins and outs of something. But it can't replace a
                                                good, structured, progressively built handbook, possibly in PDF or other
                                                *printable* format which is *much* more conducive to a learning
                                                experience. Even the best displays nowadays are about five time less
                                                efficient in terms of reading / absorbing knowledge. I'm sorry for the
                                                tree huggers out there, but I still print the information that I find
                                                useful on the net, and read it in places and times when I am far away
                                                from the computer, hand writing notes on them. Digital display
                                                technology is at least ten years away from offering similar reading
                                                efficiency, and even if it did, forums with their "customized" choices
                                                of colors and fonts make it for a most horrible reading experience. My
                                                eyes are trained for a specific font and background color and I love to
                                                have that for all of my mail and news readers. Fixed width fonts may be
                                                boring to the designer, but they are the best type of font for
                                                quick-reading on no matter what display. The eye recognizes the number
                                                of spaces in between the identified letters more easily and the brain
                                                fits in the missing bits based on the few letters it had to recognize.
                                                Try to time yourself reading text on a few web based forums, then on
                                                your favorite mail client, then on a proper book and then on a few texts
                                                printed in courier fixed with font black on white. You might not get to
                                                former US President JFK amazing 1200 words per minute, but you will
                                                notice differences based on the different media.

                                                yuv





                                                __________________________________________________
                                                Do You Yahoo!?
                                                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                http://mail.yahoo.com

                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • dalileis
                                                Yea, that s what someone sitting in Denmark could easily (incorrectly) conclude. Besides, as soon as Denis would do something like that (go to $200-400 range)
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Oct 23, 2007
                                                  Yea, that's what someone sitting in Denmark could easily (incorrectly)
                                                  conclude. Besides, as soon as Denis would do something like that (go
                                                  to $200-400 range) he would have his program hacked to pieces and
                                                  available on any torrent site worldwide within 2-3 hours. Facts.


                                                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > When someone makes a Mac/PC Gui for flashpanoramas which can do most
                                                  of the
                                                  > functions you can achieve with the viewer in a way just as simple
                                                  as Cubic Connector he
                                                  > could easy sell it for $200-400. There will be a large need for it
                                                  when VR Photographers
                                                  > begin to understand the possibilities.
                                                  >
                                                  > Hans
                                                  >
                                                • Sacha Griffin
                                                  Perhaps you are right. I am already thinking of something clever to eliminate the need for a stretchy interface of thumbnails to replacing the dropdown box.
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Oct 23, 2007
                                                    Perhaps you are right. I am already thinking of something clever to
                                                    eliminate the need for a stretchy interface of thumbnails to replacing the
                                                    dropdown box.

                                                    Which I am almost positive, most people won't understand how to use.

                                                    My estimation for the skills of the average user has dropped tremendously
                                                    since I began showcasing virtual tours.

                                                    ;) or is that :-|





                                                    Sacha Griffin
                                                    Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                                    www.southern-digital.com
                                                    www.seeit360.net
                                                    www.ezphotosafe.com
                                                    404-551-4275
                                                    404-731-7798

                                                    _____

                                                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                                                    Behalf Of Hans Nyberg
                                                    Sent: Monday, October 22, 2007 1:08 AM
                                                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Flash Panoramas



                                                    --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                                                    Scott Witte <scottwitte@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > Sacha,
                                                    >
                                                    > I haven't actually tried this, yet, but I would look at the embedded
                                                    > pano example. Have the embedding (frame) flash application scale to 100%
                                                    > of the window. make your logo, controls and everything else part of
                                                    > that. It should do exactly what you are after without the zoom in/out
                                                    > issues you had.
                                                    >
                                                    > Worth a try, anyway.
                                                    >
                                                    > Scott
                                                    >
                                                    > Sacha Griffin wrote:
                                                    > > Yes, its cool. But the problem I was trying to work around is.. for map
                                                    for
                                                    > > example is great on 1650x1080.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Not too large and not to small. But on 800x600.. whoah!.. Its way too
                                                    big.

                                                    Actually my impression was that you did not want it scaled.
                                                    Scaling any bitmap will result in problems like the ones i did demonstrate
                                                    by the QTVR
                                                    example with the map.

                                                    If you want a logo or a Map to be scaled from lets 800x600 to fullscreen you
                                                    have to make
                                                    a vectorbased map. Otherwise it will be unreadable.
                                                    Even if you make a png large enough for the fullscreen it will look very bad
                                                    on the small
                                                    display.

                                                    The advantage in flashpanoramas is that you easy ad it at pixel size and it
                                                    does NOT scale.

                                                    Hans





                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Georgia Real Tours
                                                    ... That s the perfect use for a wiki. http://wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki Cheers, Robert~ -- Mid GA: 478-599-1300 ATL: 678-438-6955 garealtours.com
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Oct 27, 2007
                                                      On 10/22/07, Patrick Cheatham <patrick@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Keith Martin <keith@...> wrote:
                                                      > > Patrick Cheatham commented:

                                                      > > >The FPP forums are very lively, and work well when the actual FPP
                                                      > > >documentation leaves you confused. :-)

                                                      > > But more to the point, I must say my feeling is exactly the same as
                                                      > > Sacha's: it seems *very* interesting, but it is equally frustrating.
                                                      > > Lively forums are excellent, but of course not as good as excellent
                                                      > > documentation... :-)

                                                      > Ha, yes... But, it's worlds better, IMO than, say, the LiveStage Pro documentation and
                                                      > tutorials were... ;-) Different animals, I know...

                                                      > I agree also, though, that FPP could benefit from more lower-common-denominator
                                                      > documentation and how-to info. I also know firsthand how difficult it is for the lone
                                                      > developer to find time and wherewithal for writing the documentation. One "low rent" way
                                                      > for there to be documentation is for people to continue interacting and assisting each
                                                      > other within the FPP forums (or here, wherever). The written record is at least searchable,
                                                      > even if not indexed with a table of contents. :)


                                                      That's the perfect use for a wiki. http://wiki.org/wiki.cgi?WhatIsWiki

                                                      Cheers,
                                                      Robert~

                                                      --
                                                      Mid GA: 478-599-1300
                                                      ATL: 678-438-6955
                                                      garealtours.com
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