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Re: varying color balance

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  • Peter Braatz
    Am 05.10.2007 um 16:32 schrieb oldfbii: Here is my question - Do you fiddle with the color temperature at all? I ask because each image shows a different color
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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      Am 05.10.2007 um 16:32 schrieb oldfbii:

      Here is my question - Do you fiddle with the color temperature at
      all? I ask because each image shows a different color temperature when
      it is opened in camera raw. When the batch runs through the pictures
      converting them to TIF, it saves these TIF's with different
      colorations. Particularly bad is when shooting inside, for as the
      picture approaches a window, the tints changes radically. I thought
      that when one chooses the RAW setting, that there is no color
      temperature at all but just what happens to be recorded on the sensor?

      Hi Fritz,

      first:
      of course there is a white balace when shootig RAW!
      The good thing in shooting RAW is that: you can think about it later when processing these
      images and finetune the color balance.

      How to:
      Load all your images belonging to ONE set into CS3 (open the NEF-Files all at once eith
      CS3). Then choose one image representing the scene best (in color, light, etc.) Make your
      settings as you wish and as your eyes tell you: color balance, shadow recovery, brightness,
      contrast, anything you want to change (in moderate terms!). When these setting are ok for
      you choose all the images with the first image still active and in the preview visible.
      Choose "Sychronize..." and select nearly all settings (except the last two) and sychronize
      the images to the first one. Now all images should look equal!

      It´s easy and not so hard to do.

      ... and maybe drink a tea or eat a cookie while the images are processed - it helps ;-)

      Greetings - Peter Braatz

      360pixel.de - Panoramic imaging for Print and Web
      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      info@... | www.360pixel.de | Aachen | Germany
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    • Rodolpho Pajuaba
      It´s very similar in Lightroom, another program from Adobe that, besides RAW processing, can make almost the same amount of image-massaging on Jpegs, Tiffs
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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        It´s very similar in Lightroom, another program from Adobe that, besides
        RAW processing, can make almost the same amount of image-massaging on
        Jpegs, Tiffs and PSDs, with the same control. Obviously, the quality one
        gets from already-processed images are not the same as with RAWs, but if
        you had already done a lot of retouching on Tiffs/Jpegs you´ll not want
        to go back to ACR and redo them. ;-) . On CS3 you can set ACR to open
        Jpegs and Tiffs too, but it takes another step, while in LR it´s
        automatic. After 3 or 4 months using LR every single day, for every
        single image I take, it became easier to work with than Bridge+ACR,
        which to me seems a bit awkward now.
        Regards,
        Rodolpho Pajuaba

        Peter Braatz escreveu:
        > Am 05.10.2007 um 16:32 schrieb oldfbii:
        >
        > Here is my question - Do you fiddle with the color temperature at
        > all? I ask because each image shows a different color temperature when
        > it is opened in camera raw. When the batch runs through the pictures
        > converting them to TIF, it saves these TIF's with different
        > colorations. Particularly bad is when shooting inside, for as the
        > picture approaches a window, the tints changes radically. I thought
        > that when one chooses the RAW setting, that there is no color
        > temperature at all but just what happens to be recorded on the sensor?
        >
        > Hi Fritz,
        >
        > first:
        > of course there is a white balace when shootig RAW!
        > The good thing in shooting RAW is that: you can think about it later when processing these
        > images and finetune the color balance.
        >
        > How to:
        > Load all your images belonging to ONE set into CS3 (open the NEF-Files all at once eith
        > CS3). Then choose one image representing the scene best (in color, light, etc.) Make your
        > settings as you wish and as your eyes tell you: color balance, shadow recovery, brightness,
        > contrast, anything you want to change (in moderate terms!). When these setting are ok for
        > you choose all the images with the first image still active and in the preview visible.
        > Choose "Sychronize..." and select nearly all settings (except the last two) and sychronize
        > the images to the first one. Now all images should look equal!
        >
        > It´s easy and not so hard to do.
        >
        > ... and maybe drink a tea or eat a cookie while the images are processed - it helps ;-)
        >
        > Greetings - Peter Braatz
        >
        > 360pixel.de - Panoramic imaging for Print and Web
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        > info@... | www.360pixel.de | Aachen | Germany
        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Joergen Geerds
        hi fritz, i agree with peter said. when shooting your pano, turn OFF auto white balance, and use a fixed white balance setting. this white balance setting then
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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          hi fritz,

          i agree with peter said. when shooting your pano, turn
          OFF auto white balance, and use a fixed white balance
          setting. this white balance setting then gets recorded
          into the RAW file as a SUGGESTED value and is used for
          precessing the RAW file. other than that, follow
          peters instructions and everything should be fine.

          btw, ACR4.2 is the most current version, you might
          want to upgrade it first before you continue.

          here is a tutorial video about it:
          http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/html/vid0007.html

          good luck

          -joergen

          --- Peter Braatz <yahoo@...> wrote:

          > Am 05.10.2007 um 16:32 schrieb oldfbii:
          >
          > Here is my question - Do you fiddle with the color
          > temperature at
          > all? I ask because each image shows a different
          > color temperature when
          > it is opened in camera raw. When the batch runs
          > through the pictures
          > converting them to TIF, it saves these TIF's with
          > different
          > colorations. Particularly bad is when shooting
          > inside, for as the
          > picture approaches a window, the tints changes
          > radically. I thought
          > that when one chooses the RAW setting, that there is
          > no color
          > temperature at all but just what happens to be
          > recorded on the sensor?
          >
          > Hi Fritz,
          >
          > first:
          > of course there is a white balace when shootig RAW!
          > The good thing in shooting RAW is that: you can
          > think about it later when processing these
          > images and finetune the color balance.
          >
          > How to:
          > Load all your images belonging to ONE set into CS3
          > (open the NEF-Files all at once eith
          > CS3). Then choose one image representing the scene
          > best (in color, light, etc.) Make your
          > settings as you wish and as your eyes tell you:
          > color balance, shadow recovery, brightness,
          > contrast, anything you want to change (in moderate
          > terms!). When these setting are ok for
          > you choose all the images with the first image still
          > active and in the preview visible.
          > Choose "Sychronize..." and select nearly all
          > settings (except the last two) and sychronize
          > the images to the first one. Now all images should
          > look equal!
          >
          > It´s easy and not so hard to do.
          >
          > ... and maybe drink a tea or eat a cookie while the
          > images are processed - it helps ;-)
          >
          > Greetings - Peter Braatz
          >
          > 360pixel.de - Panoramic imaging for Print and Web
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > info@... | www.360pixel.de | Aachen |
          > Germany
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          >
          >



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        • John Houghton
          ... You want to switch off all auto settings in ACR. Either select a specific white balance (such as daylight) or a particular colour temperature and tint -
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "oldfbii" <xtoper@...> wrote:
            >
            > each image shows a different color temperature

            You want to switch off all "auto" settings in ACR. Either select a
            specific white balance (such as daylight) or a particular colour
            temperature and tint - the same for all images.

            John
          • erik leeman
            For a LOT of useful info about white balance (and Adobe LightRoom) have a look at this site: http://www.rawworkflow.com You can find tutorial videos there to
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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              For a LOT of useful info about white balance (and Adobe LightRoom) have
              a look at this site:

              http://www.rawworkflow.com

              You can find tutorial videos there to guide you through all steps of
              the process.
              The WhiBal card they sell is a great help for finding good settings
              after shooting in difficult light, I use it a lot!

              Regards,

              erik leeman

              (www.erikleeman.com)
            • Eduardo Hutter
              Hey Fritz, One thing you should set on your camera is to turn auto white-balance *OFF*. That will help a little but of course, you can fix that later like
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                Hey Fritz,

                One thing you should set on your camera is to turn auto white-balance
                *OFF*. That will help a little but of course, you can fix that later
                like Peter said.

                I think though that things like contrast, shadow, saturation and curves
                shouldn't be done at this stage. I set them to zero and pick a linear
                curve, fiddling with those later in the process, after everything is
                stitched and seams errors fixed, only then I'll change them.

                cheers

                Eduardo

                Peter Braatz wrote:

                > Hi Fritz,
                >
                > first: of course there is a white balace when shootig RAW! The good
                > thing in shooting RAW is that: you can think about it later when
                > processing these images and finetune the color balance.
                >
                > How to: Load all your images belonging to ONE set into CS3 (open the
                > NEF-Files all at once eith CS3). Then choose one image representing
                > the scene best (in color, light, etc.) Make your settings as you wish
                > and as your eyes tell you: color balance, shadow recovery,
                > brightness, contrast, anything you want to change (in moderate
                > terms!). When these setting are ok for you choose all the images with
                > the first image still active and in the preview visible. Choose
                > "Sychronize..." and select nearly all settings (except the last two)
                > and sychronize the images to the first one. Now all images should
                > look equal!
              • oldfbii
                ... when processing these ... NEF-Files all at once eith ... light, etc.) Make your ... shadow recovery, brightness, ... these setting are ok for ... the
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Braatz" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  > Hi Fritz,
                  >
                  > first:
                  > of course there is a white balace when shootig RAW!
                  > The good thing in shooting RAW is that: you can think about it later
                  when processing these
                  > images and finetune the color balance.
                  >
                  > How to:
                  > Load all your images belonging to ONE set into CS3 (open the
                  NEF-Files all at once eith
                  > CS3). Then choose one image representing the scene best (in color,
                  light, etc.) Make your
                  > settings as you wish and as your eyes tell you: color balance,
                  shadow recovery, brightness,
                  > contrast, anything you want to change (in moderate terms!). When
                  these setting are ok for
                  > you choose all the images with the first image still active and in
                  the preview visible.
                  > Choose "Sychronize..." and select nearly all settings (except the
                  last two) and sychronize
                  > the images to the first one. Now all images should look equal!
                  >
                  > It´s easy and not so hard to do.

                  Well, if that isn't something! I have been putting up with big
                  variations in the images and when merging to HDR it always comes out
                  just not right. This makes all the difference and I thank you for
                  pointing this out to me.

                  There must be tutorials somewhere that mention things like this. I'll
                  look online for more of the same.



                  >
                  > ... and maybe drink a tea or eat a cookie while the images are
                  processed - it helps ;-)

                  I timed it. It takes about 20 seconds per image on my desktop
                  machine. Which isn't time to enjoy a cup of tea leisurely but I can
                  sneak in a couple of cookies when the wife isn't looking! :-)

                  > Greetings - Peter Braatz

                  Thanks again Peter!

                  fritz
                • Paul D. DeRocco
                  ... One oddity in ACR is that if you use the Synchronize function, and the master image white balance is set to As Shot , it merely forces all the other
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                    > From: oldfbii
                    >
                    > Here is my question - Do you fiddle with the color
                    > temperature at all? I ask because each image shows a
                    > different color temperature when it is opened in camera raw.
                    > When the batch runs through the pictures converting them to
                    > TIF, it saves these TIF's with different colorations.
                    > Particularly bad is when shooting inside, for as the picture
                    > approaches a window, the tints changes radically. I thought
                    > that when one chooses the RAW setting, that there is no color
                    > temperature at all but just what happens to be recorded on
                    > the sensor?

                    One oddity in ACR is that if you use the Synchronize function, and the
                    master image white balance is set to "As Shot", it merely forces all the
                    other images to be converted "As Shot", meaning that they may still have
                    different white balances. Before doing the Synchronize function, you have to
                    get the white balance for the master image off "As Shot". Just changing it
                    to "Custom" is enough--that'll leave the Temperature and Tint alone. In this
                    state, the Synchronize function will actually force the images to have the
                    same Temperature and Tint.

                    --

                    Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                    Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                  • oldfbii
                    Thank you for all the information and suggestions. I think that my first thing to do will be upgrade to acr 4.2 as suggested then check the adobe site for
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                      Thank you for all the information and suggestions. I think that my
                      first thing to do will be upgrade to acr 4.2 as suggested then check
                      the adobe site for hints and tips.

                      Then when shooting, as I understand it, set raw then color temp to the
                      approximate setting: such as flourescent, or sunshine. The d200
                      doesn't have an "off" setting but one could set it for a specific
                      color temp if desired. What about the whitebalance cards mentioned?

                      (I looked up the one at rawworkflow.com and see that they come in
                      different sizes but the little one only 2x3.5" seems as if you
                      couldn't get it all in the viewfinder without blocking the ambient
                      light? Particularly with a fisheye.)

                      Then take all shots at these settings.

                      Then in ACR all the photos should be at least set as one color balance
                      setting. Then make the changes as suggested by Peter.

                      Just taking the NEFs that I have and doing as Peter said, I have
                      improved the quality of the series by a factor of 100. Trying to
                      stitch and blend them as they were and then trying to make the
                      adjustments in the equirectangular was a bit trying! This way makes
                      all the difference in the world.


                      A little bit about the white balance card. Wouldn't it be of little
                      use in an indoor setting where windows could make one side of the room
                      quite a bit different from the where incandescents are? And then it
                      would depend upon the placement of the card and you would get
                      different values for each place?


                      Again thanks to you all for responding. I'm sure I'll have more
                      questions later.

                      fritz
                    • Paul D. DeRocco
                      ... If you re shooting raw, there s no need to even think about WB in the camera, because all it does is record a number in the raw file for the raw converter
                      Message 10 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                        > From: oldfbii

                        > Thank you for all the information and suggestions. I think
                        > that my first thing to do will be upgrade to acr 4.2 as
                        > suggested then check the adobe site for hints and tips.
                        >
                        > Then when shooting, as I understand it, set raw then color
                        > temp to the approximate setting: such as flourescent, or
                        > sunshine. The d200 doesn't have an "off" setting but one
                        > could set it for a specific color temp if desired. What about
                        > the whitebalance cards mentioned?
                        >
                        > (I looked up the one at rawworkflow.com and see that they
                        > come in different sizes but the little one only 2x3.5" seems
                        > as if you couldn't get it all in the viewfinder without
                        > blocking the ambient light? Particularly with a fisheye.)
                        >
                        > Then take all shots at these settings.
                        >
                        > Then in ACR all the photos should be at least set as one
                        > color balance setting. Then make the changes as suggested by Peter.

                        If you're shooting raw, there's no need to even think about WB in the
                        camera, because all it does is record a number in the raw file for the raw
                        converter to obey or ignore.

                        So with raw files, you don't have to get the card to fill the viewfinder.
                        All you need to do is place it somewhere in one of the images (or in a
                        separate test image), lit like the subject, and large enough that you can
                        set the white balance off it with the WB eyedropper in ACR (or probably any
                        other raw converter). Then use that WB setting for all the images in the
                        pano.

                        --

                        Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                        Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                      • oldfbii
                        ... the raw ... viewfinder. ... you can ... probably any ... Thank you very much for the Tip Paul! I ll get a WB card and fool around with it to see if it can
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 5, 2007
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                          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > If you're shooting raw, there's no need to even think about WB in the
                          > camera, because all it does is record a number in the raw file for
                          the raw
                          > converter to obey or ignore.
                          >
                          > So with raw files, you don't have to get the card to fill the
                          viewfinder.
                          > All you need to do is place it somewhere in one of the images (or in a
                          > separate test image), lit like the subject, and large enough that
                          you can
                          > set the white balance off it with the WB eyedropper in ACR (or
                          probably any
                          > other raw converter). Then use that WB setting for all the images in the
                          > pano.
                          >
                          > --
                          >
                          > Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                          > Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                          >

                          Thank you very much for the Tip Paul! I'll get a WB card and fool
                          around with it to see if it can make a difference. The coming winter
                          will be a good time to check out a lot of different things!

                          fritz
                        • Eric O'Brien
                          I have found that shooting a neutral balance target ( gray card ) to be *very* useful. Making only a single exposure of one in mixed lighting is, yes,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 6, 2007
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                            I have found that shooting a neutral balance target ("gray card") to
                            be *very* useful. Making only a single exposure of one in mixed
                            lighting is, yes, problematic. However, if you angle the card so
                            that it is lit predominately by the light you want to balance to, you
                            can have a far better starting point than not shooting a known
                            neutral target at all.

                            If you've ever clicked around with the eyedropper trying to find
                            something in the scene that "certainly must have been gray," and
                            failing, you make know what I mean. :)

                            eo

                            On Oct 5, 2007, at 4:00 PM, oldfbii wrote:

                            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...>
                            > wrote:
                            >>
                            >> If you're shooting raw, there's no need to even think about WB in the
                            >> camera, because all it does is record a number in the raw file for
                            > the raw
                            >> converter to obey or ignore.
                            >>
                            >> So with raw files, you don't have to get the card to fill the
                            > viewfinder.
                            >> All you need to do is place it somewhere in one of the images (or
                            >> in a
                            >> separate test image), lit like the subject, and large enough that
                            > you can
                            >> set the white balance off it with the WB eyedropper in ACR (or
                            > probably any
                            >> other raw converter). Then use that WB setting for all the images
                            >> in the
                            >> pano.
                            >>
                            >> --
                            >>
                            >> Ciao, Paul D. DeRocco
                            >> Paul mailto:pderocco@...
                            >>
                            >
                            > Thank you very much for the Tip Paul! I'll get a WB card and fool
                            > around with it to see if it can make a difference. The coming winter
                            > will be a good time to check out a lot of different things!
                            >
                            > fritz
                            >
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