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Re: My first pano

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  • Hans Nyberg
    ... Yes and stripes takes additional memory, they also has to be converted to individual cubefaces I assume. Read Denis answer in the forum, page 2
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Berry" <onezebra1@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi Yuv,
      >
      > Yes I was talking about six cube faces. Think I came across something
      > the other day on the Flashpanoramas site stating that it was better
      > to use 6 cube faces for flash. I'll have to go back and look for it.
      >

      Yes and stripes takes additional memory, they also has to be converted to individual
      cubefaces I assume.
      Read Denis answer in the forum, page 2
      http://flashpanoramas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159


      Hans
    • Hans Nyberg
      ... Flash compared to Quicktime is a very CPU thirsty. The same pano will use 75-80 % CPU while Quicktime uses 50-60%. Also any automatic activity in Flash
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Berry" <onezebra1@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi Yuv,
        > >
        > > Yes I was talking about six cube faces. Think I came across something
        > > the other day on the Flashpanoramas site stating that it was better
        > > to use 6 cube faces for flash. I'll have to go back and look for it.
        > >
        >
        > Yes and stripes takes additional memory, they also has to be converted to individual
        > cubefaces I assume.
        > Read Denis answer in the forum, page 2
        > http://flashpanoramas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159

        Flash compared to Quicktime is a very CPU thirsty.
        The same pano will use 75-80 % CPU while Quicktime uses 50-60%.
        Also any automatic activity in Flash will consume 90-100% CPU.

        I have pointed out for years that if you make a flash site with hotspots you should never
        use any automatic animation in it. If you open a popup QTVR or any other pano they are
        affected and will pan very jerky. This is still the case even if I now have a dualcore
        MacBook pro.

        Your browser is not able to use the dual cores so even if you open another window it is
        affected. I just did a test using the panos at http://www.sziget2007.com/.
        The flash panos has a very slow autorotation.
        If you open a new browser window and open one more pano as QTVR or Flash this pano
        will perform very bad.

        I tried open it in Firefox and keep the Flash pano in Safari. The pano panned fine as it
        could use the second CPU. My activity monitor showed me that the flash pano in the
        background used 90% CPU and my new opened flash pano in Firefox used 80% while
        panning around without any jerkyness.

        I am not sure yet if this also affects flashpanos using the Fullscreen option to open real
        fullscreen.

        Hans
      • Yuval Levy
        ... From his answer: Stripes takes some additional memory (30% more then cubes in the worst case). It can be a problem if you have big stripes with
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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          Hans Nyberg wrote:
          > Yes and stripes takes additional memory, they also has to be converted to individual
          > cubefaces I assume.
          > Read Denis answer in the forum, page 2
          > http://flashpanoramas.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159

          From his answer:

          "Stripes takes some additional memory (30% more then cubes in the worst
          case). It can be a problem if you have big stripes with transitional
          effect and user has only 256Mb of memory..."

          everything else refers to equirectangulars.

          stripes need no conversion, only slicing.

          Yuv
        • Carel
          ... Thanks for mentioning that. This explains a lot of strange behavior I have been noticing. But without hotspots the autoplay also affects CPU usage I see
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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            Hans Nyberg wrote:
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:
            >
            > I have pointed out for years that if you make a flash site with hotspots
            > you should never
            > use any automatic animation in it. If you open a popup QTVR or any other
            > pano they are
            > affected and will pan very jerky. This is still the case even if I now
            > have a dualcore
            > MacBook pro.
            >
            > Hans
            >
            >

            Thanks for mentioning that. This explains a lot of strange behavior I have
            been noticing. But without hotspots the autoplay also affects CPU usage I
            see now.

            Carel Struycken
            --
            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/My-first-pano-tf4346275.html#a12408958
            Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          • Roger Berry
            Hi Hans, I was interested to see what my Quad Core CPU would do when viewing more than 1 pano. When I got to having 4 panos open from this site
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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              Hi Hans,

              I was interested to see what my Quad Core CPU would do when viewing
              more than 1 pano.
              When I got to having 4 panos open from this site
              http://www.sziget2007.com/. The autorotation did slow down and they
              got a lot of jerkyness in them when panning around.
              Here is a screen shot of my Performance Manager with the 4 panos,
              Internet Explore and screen capture open:
              http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/cpu_test.png

              Roger Berry

              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
              >
              > Flash compared to Quicktime is a very CPU thirsty.
              > The same pano will use 75-80 % CPU while Quicktime uses 50-60%.
              > Also any automatic activity in Flash will consume 90-100% CPU.
              >
              > I have pointed out for years that if you make a flash site with
              hotspots you should never
              > use any automatic animation in it. If you open a popup QTVR or any
              other pano they are
              > affected and will pan very jerky. This is still the case even if I
              now have a dualcore
              > MacBook pro.
              >
              > Your browser is not able to use the dual cores so even if you open
              another window it is
              > affected. I just did a test using the panos at
              http://www.sziget2007.com/.
              > The flash panos has a very slow autorotation.
              > If you open a new browser window and open one more pano as QTVR or
              Flash this pano
              > will perform very bad.
              >
              > I tried open it in Firefox and keep the Flash pano in Safari. The
              pano panned fine as it
              > could use the second CPU. My activity monitor showed me that the
              flash pano in the
              > background used 90% CPU and my new opened flash pano in Firefox
              used 80% while
              > panning around without any jerkyness.
              >
              > I am not sure yet if this also affects flashpanos using the
              Fullscreen option to open real
              > fullscreen.
              >
              > Hans
              >
            • Hans Nyberg
              ... What affects the CPU usage seems to be the motion quality settings. I checked this site http://www.lapalma-virtualtour.nl/ which has a much faster
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 30, 2007
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                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Berry" <onezebra1@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Hans,
                >
                > I was interested to see what my Quad Core CPU would do when viewing
                > more than 1 pano.
                > When I got to having 4 panos open from this site
                > http://www.sziget2007.com/. The autorotation did slow down and they
                > got a lot of jerkyness in them when panning around.
                > Here is a screen shot of my Performance Manager with the 4 panos,
                > Internet Explore and screen capture open:
                > http://www.indiavrtours.com/pic/cpu_test.png

                What affects the CPU usage seems to be the motion quality settings.
                I checked this site http://www.lapalma-virtualtour.nl/
                which has a much faster autopanning and it only uses 60% when left alone during
                autopanning.

                If you open one of the Sziget panos in another window you get no performance
                disturbance at all but you get some if you change to the Palma site and start panning.

                Hans

                >
                > Roger Berry
                >
                > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Flash compared to Quicktime is a very CPU thirsty.
                > > The same pano will use 75-80 % CPU while Quicktime uses 50-60%.
                > > Also any automatic activity in Flash will consume 90-100% CPU.
                > >
                > > I have pointed out for years that if you make a flash site with
                > hotspots you should never
                > > use any automatic animation in it. If you open a popup QTVR or any
                > other pano they are
                > > affected and will pan very jerky. This is still the case even if I
                > now have a dualcore
                > > MacBook pro.
                > >
                > > Your browser is not able to use the dual cores so even if you open
                > another window it is
                > > affected. I just did a test using the panos at
                > http://www.sziget2007.com/.
                > > The flash panos has a very slow autorotation.
                > > If you open a new browser window and open one more pano as QTVR or
                > Flash this pano
                > > will perform very bad.
                > >
                > > I tried open it in Firefox and keep the Flash pano in Safari. The
                > pano panned fine as it
                > > could use the second CPU. My activity monitor showed me that the
                > flash pano in the
                > > background used 90% CPU and my new opened flash pano in Firefox
                > used 80% while
                > > panning around without any jerkyness.
                > >
                > > I am not sure yet if this also affects flashpanos using the
                > Fullscreen option to open real
                > > fullscreen.
                > >
                > > Hans
                > >
                >
              • Peter Crowley
                ... Okay, I understand the problem as being the seam between the zenith and nadir on the stripe. It appears that your solution is to try decreasing the levels
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...> wrote:

                  >
                  > Confirm - the stripes are malformed. See
                  > <http://www.photopla.net/wwp0703/stripes.php> for an explanation.

                  Okay, I understand the problem as being the seam between the zenith
                  and nadir on the stripe. It appears that your solution is to try
                  decreasing the levels of jpeg compression and look at each iteration
                  manually until the seam becomes distinct. Is there not a better way
                  (more automated) way to do this? I could just use the six cube faces
                  separately, but that means I'd have to keep track of six different
                  files instead of the single stripe file I have now.
                • Peter Crowley
                  ... Resolution for each face would be 1026x1026. Yes the range has been shortened quite a bit. I think next time I ll go back and redo the process with a
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "bob_in_minnesota"
                    <installexpert@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Peter,
                    > Your panoramas loaded fine for me, and look good! What sizes are
                    > you using for the cube faces? The panos seem like they could use a
                    > bit more resolution/contrast/sharpening. Maybe that's just becase
                    > the HDR didn't work out?

                    Resolution for each face would be 1026x1026. Yes the range has been
                    shortened quite a bit. I think next time I'll go back and redo the
                    process with a different set of images from by bracketed set and then
                    manually add the detail I'm looking for. As it is, with just that one
                    set, I had to decrease a lot of contrast.
                    -Peter
                  • Peter Crowley
                    ... Yes it is a stripe. I d rather keep track of just image per panoramic, but if I can t get the jpeg compression to stop merging my zenith and nadir for one
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Berry" <onezebra1@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Peter,
                      >
                      > I take it you're using the stripe format, because I can see lines where
                      > some of the images join together. I went that way for awhile until
                      > after doing about 20 of them and I saw some lines in one, now I stick
                      > with cubes.
                      > Someone else posted one here a few days ago that had the same thing.
                      >
                      > Roger Berry
                      >
                      Yes it is a stripe. I'd rather keep track of just image per
                      panoramic, but if I can't get the jpeg compression to stop merging my
                      zenith and nadir for one pixel row, then I might just have to do it
                      the long way.
                    • Peter Crowley
                      ... hotspots you should never ... other pano they are ... now have a dualcore ... I m not so worried that my intended audience (obviously not people on this
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Hans Nyberg" <hans@...> wrote:

                        > I have pointed out for years that if you make a flash site with
                        hotspots you should never
                        > use any automatic animation in it. If you open a popup QTVR or any
                        other pano they are
                        > affected and will pan very jerky. This is still the case even if I
                        now have a dualcore
                        > MacBook pro.

                        I'm not so worried that my intended audience (obviously not people on
                        this list) are going to open more than one panoramic at a time. I am
                        worried, however, that they are not going to understand how to use the
                        viewer, or even to understand that it is a panoramic, not just a
                        regular photo. I added the automatic rotation for these users who
                        don't know to click on the buttons or drag the mouse. I designed my
                        viewer to account for users that have never seen a panoramic before
                        and will not know what to expect. I personally find the automatic
                        rotation annoying, so I have a button to turn it off easily.

                        Yes it's a CPU hog and I wish it weren't, but the user experience
                        outweighs the CPU argument for me.
                        -Peter
                      • Yuval Levy
                        ... I use a fully automated method. what you see on that web page is just the research that lead to that method. Yuv
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                          Peter Crowley wrote:
                          > Is there not a better way (more automated) way to do this?

                          I use a fully automated method. what you see on that web page is just
                          the research that lead to that method.

                          Yuv
                        • Yuval Levy
                          ... multiple concurrent panoramas can be prevented with proper coding of the pages. ... that s the old quagmire: with auto-rotation they say nice movie , let
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 31, 2007
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                            Peter Crowley wrote:
                            > I'm not so worried that my intended audience (obviously not people on
                            > this list) are going to open more than one panoramic at a time.

                            multiple concurrent panoramas can be prevented with proper coding of the
                            pages.


                            > I am
                            > worried, however, that they are not going to understand how to use the
                            > viewer, or even to understand that it is a panoramic, not just a
                            > regular photo.

                            that's the old quagmire: with auto-rotation they say "nice movie", let
                            it run a whole round and when they see things repeat, they just click
                            away. without it they say nice picture and click away without seeing
                            what's beyond the viewer's FOV. Don't even ask them to zoom - 99% of
                            them don't, even those that know to navigate a VR.

                            ptviewer and SPi-V have the best solution to this, as camera movement
                            can be scripted so to make people understand that they can take control.


                            > Yes it's a CPU hog and I wish it weren't, but the user experience
                            > outweighs the CPU argument for me.

                            modern CPU are anyway idle most of the time. Some exercise does not hurt
                            them :-)

                            Yuv
                          • Peter Crowley
                            ... First, I forgot to thank you, Yuval, for bringing to my attention that there was a problem, and also for having a webpage describing how to fix it. You
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 3, 2007
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                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Peter Crowley wrote:
                              > > Is there not a better way (more automated) way to do this?
                              >
                              > I use a fully automated method. what you see on that web page is just
                              > the research that lead to that method.
                              >
                              > Yuv
                              >
                              First, I forgot to thank you, Yuval, for bringing to my attention that
                              there was a problem, and also for having a webpage describing how to
                              fix it. You have been a great help to me on increasing my
                              understanding of panoramas.

                              Here is what I ended up doing in ImageMagick:
                              <code>
                              for FACE in front right back left up down
                              do
                              convert $FACE.tif -depth 8 -resize 1026 -quality 60% -unsharp
                              "3x1+1.5" $FACE.jpg
                              done
                              # make a stripe of the cube faces (used by flashpanoramas player)
                              convert -quality 100% front.jpg right.jpg back.jpg left.jpg up.jpg
                              down.jpg +append $OUTFILE.jpg
                              </code>

                              I think it turned out better. I also tried to extend the contrast per
                              bob-in-minnesota. I thought it was good before, but now I'm really
                              proud. I wonder if it can get any better?
                              http://www.rochmn.us/pano.php?name=park&size=Stripe
                              -Peter
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