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for Canon 5 D - Nikon 10.5 or Sigma 8 mm ? Any secrets with 10.5 ?

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  • jann_lipka
    Sorry if this question is already discussed ... I m leaning towards buying a Sigma 8 F 3.5 lens , OTOH I see here some very good panoramas by great shooters
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
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      Sorry if this question is already discussed ...


      I'm leaning towards buying a Sigma 8 F 3.5 lens , OTOH I see here some
      very good panoramas by great shooters like Ulf Bergmark ( nice river boat photo Ulf )
      ae made using 10.5 .
      So is there som hidden features there .

      I want the 8 mm because I would skip the adapter, lens hood shaving, get manual F stop
      and looks like maybe even better overlapping / fewer images per panorama .

      There must be some advantage to 10.5 - is the sharpness so much better ?
    • Carel
      ... The new Sigma is an excellent lens, but on a 5D your resolution will be lower than a 10.5mm. Yes, the Nikkor needs to be shaved and changing the f-stops is
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
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        jann lipka wrote:
        >
        >
        > There must be some advantage to 10.5 - is the sharpness so much better ?
        >
        >
        The new Sigma is an excellent lens, but on a 5D your resolution will be
        lower than a 10.5mm. Yes, the Nikkor needs to be shaved and changing the
        f-stops is a bit of a pain.
        With the Tokina 10-17mm you will not have those problems and as added bonus
        the option of making very high resolution spehicals with the zoom set to
        15-17mm. The sun shield also needs to be shaved off the Tokina and this is
        even harder to do than on the 10.5 nikkor. But a good camera repair facility
        can do it for you and the combined cost of lens plus professional shave will
        still be less than the Sigma or Nikkor.

        Carel Struycken
        --
        View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/for-Canon-5-D---Nikon-10.5-or-Sigma-8-mm---Any-secrets-with-10.5---tf4204098.html#a11958633
        Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
      • jann_lipka
        CAREL , Thanks for your suggestions, Tokina looks certainly like an interesting option, As a DX lens , can it be used on 5 D, I remember some APS sized lenses
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
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          CAREL ,
          Thanks for your suggestions,
          Tokina looks certainly like an interesting option,
          As a DX lens , can it be used on 5 D,
          I remember some APS sized lenses will not work on 24x36 mm...
          ( my kit lens from 400 D will not work on 5 D )
          Anyone with a sample of 5D/ tokina combo ?

          Also I'm trying to get a grip of FOV on those fisheye lenses, will 8 mm Sigma get me
          more of the view ( fewer images to take ) or is the difference to 10 / 10.5 mm very small.

          I own already a Sigma 12- 24 mm lens , and I think I get very nice detail from it, but it is
          jsut too many images to take, so the panoramas tend to be less dynamic .
        • Carel
          Michel Thoby has done extensive testing on the Tokina and also shows how to remove the metal sun shade. But I would have that done by a camera repair person.
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
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            Michel Thoby has done extensive testing on the Tokina and also shows how to
            remove the metal sun shade. But I would have that done by a camera repair
            person.
            http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_10_17/Can_the_Zoom_Tokina_10-17mm_be_shaved.html

            Carel Struycken

            --
            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/for-Canon-5-D---Nikon-10.5-or-Sigma-8-mm---Any-secrets-with-10.5---tf4204098.html#a11958910
            Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          • jann_lipka
            Carel, Thanks for this interesting link , I m bit worried about lens shade removal, I m not sure if I would find someone to do that for me here in Stockholm .
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 1, 2007
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              Carel, Thanks for this interesting link ,
              I'm bit worried about lens shade removal, I'm not sure if I would find someone to do that for
              me here in Stockholm .
            • Erik Krause
              ... The 10.5 acts as a portrait cropped circular on a 5D, whereas the 8mm is a full circular, where you throw away nearly half of the sensors pixels. You
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                On Thursday, August 02, 2007 at 4:41, jann_lipka wrote:

                > I want the 8 mm because I would skip the adapter, lens hood shaving, get
                > manual F stop and looks like maybe even better overlapping / fewer images per
                > panorama .

                ...and much less resolution.

                > There must be some advantage to 10.5 - is the sharpness so much better ?

                The 10.5 acts as a portrait cropped circular on a 5D, whereas the 8mm
                is a full circular, where you throw away nearly half of the sensors
                pixels. You should know that the 5D has a lower absolute resolution
                (pixels/mm) than f.e. a Nikon D70, which means that you get a higher
                resolution panorama with the Nikon and the respective lens.

                I'll prepare a table on the wiki as soon as I get time since this
                questions arise over and over again...

                best regards




                --
                http://www.erik-krause.de
              • Carel
                I live in a small town and my camera repair shop is the size of a shoebox. He took my 10.5mm lens apart to remove a chip that had somehow manifested itself in
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                  I live in a small town and my camera repair shop is the size of a shoebox. He
                  took my 10.5mm lens apart to remove a chip that had somehow manifested
                  itself in between the elements.

                  In a city like Stockholm you should be able to find a repairshop that will
                  take this on. Hey, they build Hasselblads in Sweden :-)
                  Or you can do it yourself. Michel Thoby provides excellent step by step
                  instructions.

                  Carel

                  --
                  View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/for-Canon-5-D---Nikon-10.5-or-Sigma-8-mm---Any-secrets-with-10.5---tf4204098.html#a11960495
                  Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                • jann_lipka
                  Very good point Erik , thanks for pointing this out . But from what I see on MIchel Tobys review It looks for me that shaved Tokina should behave at least as
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                    Very good point Erik , thanks for pointing this out .
                    But from what I see on MIchel Tobys review
                    It looks for me that shaved Tokina should behave at least as good as Nikon 10.5
                    ( = I get more nice pixels then with Sigma 8 )

                    Considering the fact that I can skip the adapter and fiddling with Fstop it looks for me that
                    this lens should work OK .

                    Any obvious problems to expect from 10-17 zoom ?
                    Even max aperture 3.5 looks fine ..

                    I'm so tired of 6 + 2 images for my 12 mm Sigma .

                    OTOH I get very nice detail - like in this one from Warsaw taken few days ago :
                    http://www.lipka.se/special/panos/roundoffice.mov

                    ( This one became possible only thanks to PTgui Joost generous support )
                  • erik leeman
                    about roundoffice.mov: why-oh-why did you choose NOT to position your camera in the exact center??? that really puzzles me, sorry bout that : ) Regards, erik
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                      about roundoffice.mov:
                      why-oh-why did you choose NOT to position your camera in the exact
                      center???
                      that really puzzles me, sorry 'bout that : )

                      Regards,

                      erik leeman
                    • jann_lipka
                      ... Erik , The world is full of properly centered panoramas :-) , Actually , I put camera first exactly in the middle , but moved it because I thought that it
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "erik leeman" <erik.leeman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > about roundoffice.mov:
                        > why-oh-why did you choose NOT to position your camera in the exact
                        > center???
                        > that really puzzles me, sorry 'bout that : )
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > erik leeman
                        >

                        Erik , The world is full of properly centered panoramas :-) ,
                        Actually , I put camera first exactly in the middle ,
                        but moved it because I thought that it was too obvious and
                        the building itself was so very symetric ....
                        After a quick session I was approached by a guard telling me it was strictly förbidden
                        to take any photos there ...

                        BTW: Because of symmetry it was very difficult to stitch ...
                      • Keith Martin
                        ... I see what you mean. But I think I d probably have shot it off-center too. If the camera had been right in the middle then the view around would have been
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                          Sometime around 2/8/07 (at 15:49 +0000) erik leeman said:

                          >about roundoffice.mov:
                          >why-oh-why did you choose NOT to position your camera in the exact
                          >center???

                          :-)
                          I see what you mean. But I think I'd probably have shot it off-center
                          too. If the camera had been right in the middle then the view around
                          would have been virtually identical, no change in the paving patterns
                          to give a sense of placement.

                          But it is definitely a subjective, aesthetic decision.

                          k
                        • erik leeman
                          I wasn t trying to tell you it would have been better if centered, no sir! It made me curious about WHY you choose not to do the most obvious thing. Off center
                          Message 12 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                            I wasn't trying to tell you it would have been better if centered, no
                            sir! It made me curious about WHY you choose not to do the most obvious
                            thing. Off center it may have lost some of its 'geometrical beauty' but
                            it gained 'interestingness'. To me that made it a good move for the
                            right reason : )

                            erik leeman
                          • Luca Vascon
                            1 an 8mm on a 5D is an injurious loss of pixels!!! The Tokina is good for a 5D, no problem at allm shave it and live happy... With the addicrional plus you
                            Message 13 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                              1 an 8mm on a 5D is an injurious loss of pixels!!!
                              The Tokina is good for a 5D, no problem at allm shave it and live happy...
                              With the addicrional plus you will be able to also shoot at 6+2
                              qnhancing resolution a LOT, whenever you need...
                              Without need of moving the panohead settings...
                              ;-P

                              jann_lipka ha scritto:
                              >
                              > Sorry if this question is already discussed ...
                              >
                              > I'm leaning towards buying a Sigma 8 F 3.5 lens , OTOH I see here some
                              > very good panoramas by great shooters like Ulf Bergmark ( nice river
                              > boat photo Ulf )
                              > ae made using 10.5 .
                              > So is there som hidden features there .
                              >
                              > I want the 8 mm because I would skip the adapter, lens hood shaving,
                              > get manual F stop
                              > and looks like maybe even better overlapping / fewer images per panorama .
                              >
                              > There must be some advantage to 10.5 - is the sharpness so much better ?
                              >
                              >
                            • Jook Leung
                              The big deal for me with the Nikkor 10.5 and Tokina s is the useful image circle s fov is 190 to 200 degrees and both lenses are amazingly flare free. The
                              Message 14 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                The big deal for me with the Nikkor 10.5 and Tokina's is the useful
                                image circle's fov is 190 to 200 degrees and both lenses are
                                amazingly flare free. The Sigma's fov is 180 or less. I use all three.

                                Here's some of my pano rigs with the Canon 5D and 10.5 Nikkor and
                                Canon 15mm:
                                http://360vr.com/misc/5D_pano_rigs/index.htm


                                I'm spending my summer shooting with the Tokina 107 on a Canon 5D and
                                learning to be comfortable with it. I can post sets of test images
                                taken at 10mm, 12mm and 15mm for people to try out. Let me know and
                                I'll put them together.

                                I've cut the Tokina shade off with good success with this approach:

                                You'll need a vertical home shop type of drill press with an
                                adjustable stage and a Dremel tool type of diamond or metal cutting
                                wheel.
                                http://www.toolbarn.com/product/dremel/545/

                                This will allow horizontal cutting. The lens is wrapped in rubber
                                bands and food plastic and placed standing up on its end cap on the
                                drill press stage.

                                An angle bracket is attached to the stage to control cutting depth.
                                The lens is simply turned by hand against the the cutting wheel.

                                A vacuum hose is placed nearby to suck away the metal dust. I'll have
                                to locate a photo of this setup.

                                regards,
                                Jook



                                On Aug 2, 2007, at 2:03 AM, Carel wrote:

                                >
                                > Michel Thoby has done extensive testing on the Tokina and also
                                > shows how to
                                > remove the metal sun shade. But I would have that done by a camera
                                > repair
                                > person.
                                > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/Tokina_10_17/
                                > Can_the_Zoom_Tokina_10-17mm_be_shaved.html
                                >
                                > Carel Struycken
                                >
                                > --
                                > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/for-Canon-5-D---
                                > Nikon-10.5-or-Sigma-8-mm---Any-secrets-with-10.5---
                                > tf4204098.html#a11958910
                                > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                                >
                                >
                                >

                                Jook Leung Photography
                                360VR Images - 360 degree Panoramic photography
                                Web: http://360vr.com
                                E-mail: jook@...




                                Jook Leung Photography
                                360VR Images - 360 degree Panoramic photography
                                Web: http://360vr.com
                                E-mail: jook@...
                                Mobile: 201 679 6177





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Pat Swovelin
                                ... And clearly one the guard didn t like or he wouldn t have made Jann leave. =8^) ... Pat Swovelin Cool Guy @ Large
                                Message 15 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                  On 8/2/2007 9:28 AM, Keith Martin rambled on about ...:
                                  > Sometime around 2/8/07 (at 15:49 +0000) erik leeman said:
                                  >
                                  >> about roundoffice.mov:
                                  >> why-oh-why did you choose NOT to position your camera in the exact
                                  >> center???
                                  >
                                  > :-)
                                  > I see what you mean. But I think I'd probably have shot it off-center
                                  > too. If the camera had been right in the middle then the view around
                                  > would have been virtually identical, no change in the paving patterns
                                  > to give a sense of placement.
                                  >
                                  > But it is definitely a subjective, aesthetic decision.

                                  And clearly one the guard didn't like or he wouldn't have made Jann
                                  leave. =8^)

                                  > k




                                  Pat Swovelin
                                  Cool Guy @ Large
                                • PanoToolsNG.10.m8@spamgourmet.com
                                  Hi Jook, May I ask why you have(what looks like) red tape on all the components of your rig and camera? (Is it for identification of your equipment when with a
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Aug 2, 2007
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                                    Hi Jook,
                                    May I ask why you have(what looks like) red tape on all the components of
                                    your rig and camera?

                                    (Is it for identification of your equipment when with a group of other
                                    panographers/photographers?)

                                    Cheers,
                                    Darren.

                                    )-----Original Message-----
                                    )From: Jook Leung
                                    )
                                    )Here's some of my pano rigs with the Canon 5D and 10.5 Nikkor
                                    )and Canon 15mm:
                                    )http://360vr.com/misc/5D_pano_rigs/index.htm

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