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Panoramas with people...

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  • obarakana
    I m new here and one of my reasons for joining is that I was very impressed with Mikhael Subotzky s panoramic work, especially they way he managed to fill his
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 29 8:09 AM
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      I'm new here and one of my reasons for joining is that I was very
      impressed with Mikhael Subotzky's panoramic work, especially they way
      he managed to fill his shots with people (I was familiar with stitched
      panos of places but this was the first time I had seen images so
      densely populated with humans...).
      I have just now been looking at Roger Berry's panorama of a Pushkar
      camel market and am intrigued by the way that I don't see the same
      person in more than one place.
      I had assumed that stitching together images in situations where
      people are in movement and risked moving between one shot and another
      would cause problems and would require special techniques (like trying
      to avoid having people at the points where individual images
      overlap). Would anyone be kind enough to give me some tips as to how
      one goes about producing successful panos full of people?...
      Many thanks...
      David.
    • panokaemena@mac.com
      I am not paying special attention when shooting in a place with many people moving around. I try to shoot as fast as possible. I take only care with moving
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 29 8:21 AM
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        I am not paying special attention when shooting in a place with many
        people moving around. I try to shoot as fast as possible.
        I take only care with moving people very near to the cam. for the
        rest it is quite unlikely that you cannot repair any missing limb
        either by eliminating a person or by repairing a person with parts
        from the overlap.
        Regarding same persons in same pano see here an example of curious
        boys....

        http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/Syria/Bosra3_23022007

        and these here were jumping like crazy around me

        http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FS/Syria/CracStudents2/



        Willy
        http://homepage.mac.com/wkaemena/FSPanos/Menu352.html


        On Jul 29, 2007, at 18:09, obarakana wrote:

        > I'm new here and one of my reasons for joining is that I was very
        > impressed with Mikhael Subotzky's panoramic work, especially they way
        > he managed to fill his shots with people (I was familiar with stitched
        > panos of places but this was the first time I had seen images so
        > densely populated with humans...).
        > I have just now been looking at Roger Berry's panorama of a Pushkar
        > camel market and am intrigued by the way that I don't see the same
        > person in more than one place.
        > I had assumed that stitching together images in situations where
        > people are in movement and risked moving between one shot and another
        > would cause problems and would require special techniques (like trying
        > to avoid having people at the points where individual images
        > overlap). Would anyone be kind enough to give me some tips as to how
        > one goes about producing successful panos full of people?...
        > Many thanks...
        > David.
        >
        >
        >



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • yuval_levy
        Hi David ... the techniques are very similar whether you want to produce panos full of people or empty of people. In the end, it boils down to overlap and
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 29 10:36 AM
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          Hi David

          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "obarakana" <david.carr@...> wrote:
          > tips as to how one goes about producing successful panos full of
          > people?...

          the techniques are very similar whether you want to produce panos full
          of people or empty of people.

          In the end, it boils down to overlap and masking.

          First, make sure you have plenty of overlap. As you correctly observed
          it will avoid you wasting time at the seams. Patience is your friend.
          Leave your setup in place (make sure the NPP does not move) and wait
          for the crowd to change/move. When there has been enough movement,
          shoot the pano again. Repeat as often as needed - the number of
          repetition depends from the dynamic of the crowd, it's density and
          your objective (empty or full).

          Back at your desk, get *all* of the pictures into a hugin or PTgui
          project. Go through the usual process of CP registration. When you are
          ready to stitch, output a layered document, with each image a separate
          Photoshop layer.

          Open the layered document in Photoshop. For each place in the panorama
          you will have many overlapping images. Use masks to reveal / hide
          details from any one image.

          Share with us your results, please!
          Yuv
        • udedomenico
          Yuv, I have question with regards to your suggestion: say you output from PTGUI, you choose individual layers only in PSD format. Once you have done that of
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 31 1:34 AM
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            Yuv,

            I have question with regards to your suggestion:

            say you output from PTGUI, you choose individual layers only in PSD
            format.

            Once you have done that of course you can play with masks in
            photoshop.
            but....how will you blend the final result?

            will input the psd layers manually in a blending sw (e.g.
            smartblend)?

            which format would you use? psd?

            or what else?

            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "yuval_levy" <yahoo06@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi David
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "obarakana" <david.carr@>
            wrote:
            > > tips as to how one goes about producing successful panos full of
            > > people?...
            >
            > the techniques are very similar whether you want to produce panos
            full
            > of people or empty of people.
            >
            > In the end, it boils down to overlap and masking.
            >
            > First, make sure you have plenty of overlap. As you correctly
            observed
            > it will avoid you wasting time at the seams. Patience is your
            friend.
            > Leave your setup in place (make sure the NPP does not move) and
            wait
            > for the crowd to change/move. When there has been enough movement,
            > shoot the pano again. Repeat as often as needed - the number of
            > repetition depends from the dynamic of the crowd, it's density and
            > your objective (empty or full).
            >
            > Back at your desk, get *all* of the pictures into a hugin or PTgui
            > project. Go through the usual process of CP registration. When you
            are
            > ready to stitch, output a layered document, with each image a
            separate
            > Photoshop layer.
            >
            > Open the layered document in Photoshop. For each place in the
            panorama
            > you will have many overlapping images. Use masks to reveal / hide
            > details from any one image.
            >
            > Share with us your results, please!
            > Yuv
            >
          • Erik Krause
            ... No need to do that. In PTGui choose blended and layers as output and select yout favourite blending tool. You get a blendend panorama with all the layers
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 31 2:01 AM
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              On Tuesday, July 31, 2007 at 8:34, udedomenico wrote:

              > say you output from PTGUI, you choose individual layers only in PSD
              > format.
              >
              > Once you have done that of course you can play with masks in
              > photoshop.
              > but....how will you blend the final result?
              >
              > will input the psd layers manually in a blending sw (e.g.
              > smartblend)?

              No need to do that. In PTGui choose "blended and layers" as output
              and select yout favourite blending tool. You get a blendend panorama
              with all the layers masked black. If there are some ghosts, cut off
              legs etc. look for the appropriate layer and paint the mask white.
              That's all.

              best regards
              --
              http://www.erik-krause.de
            • Yuval Levy
              ... sometimes yes and sometimes no. IN PTgui you can choose to color-correct the layers or not. If you do, some funny results will happen such as seeing a pink
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 31 6:35 AM
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                Erik Krause wrote:
                >> will input the psd layers manually in a blending sw (e.g.
                >> smartblend)?
                >
                > No need to do that. In PTGui choose "blended and layers" as output
                > and select yout favourite blending tool. You get a blendend panorama
                > with all the layers masked black. If there are some ghosts, cut off
                > legs etc. look for the appropriate layer and paint the mask white.
                > That's all.

                sometimes yes and sometimes no. IN PTgui you can choose to color-correct
                the layers or not.

                If you do, some funny results will happen such as seeing a pink shade on
                a gray wall when in one picture a person with a red shirt passed in
                front of that gray wall and in the other picture you have the gray wall.

                If you don't, the "normal" 2%-5% variation in brightness due to many
                factors including vignetting, changing weather conditions, changed light
                reflection from moving objects, etc. will show at the seams.

                Use a soft, feathered brush to make the masks and significantly reduce
                the effect until it is almost unnoticeable.

                Or better: use hugin with its photometric correction which is far
                superior to color-correction of layers.

                Yuv
              • udedomenico
                Well I was going through John s tutorial which is also about masking as you guys are talking about: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.houghton/blending.htm but if
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 31 8:34 AM
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                  Well I was going through John's tutorial which is also about masking
                  as you guys are talking about:

                  http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.houghton/blending.htm


                  but if output the psd file I get some masks which do not sound right
                  to me (they are all black?).... also I do not seem to be able to work
                  on them by using the eraser tools, whatever I do iy does not change
                  anything... the layers do not seem to be visible....

                  http://www.umbertodedomenico.net/Test/Masks.JPG


                  what am I doing wrong?
                • Leo
                  ... This took me a while to figure out too but once you realize what is going on it is pretty simple. First make sure that you are outputting the blended and
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 31 10:32 AM
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                    > but if output the psd file I get some masks which do not sound right
                    > to me (they are all black?)... also I do not seem to be able to work
                    > on them by using the eraser tools, whatever I do iy does not change
                    > anything... the layers do not seem to be visible....
                    >
                    > http://www.umbertodedomenico.net/Test/Masks.JPG
                    >
                    >
                    > what am I doing wrong?


                    This took me a while to figure out too but once you realize what is
                    going on it is pretty simple. First make sure that you are outputting
                    the blended and layers. Now to understand what happened. The bottom
                    layer is the blended layer. All the layers on top of it are
                    completely masked out (black). E.G. none of the image from any of
                    those layers is visible yet. If you would like to include some of a
                    particular image you will need to unmask it by painting white (with
                    any brush or paint tool) in the mask area. You should notice an
                    immediate change in the image then. Fixing poor blend lines is then
                    pretty easy, especially if you use a large soft brush.
                  • Pat Swovelin
                    ... You don t want to use the eraser tool, you want to paint on the layer mask with a soft-edged brush and white. Look at the layer and you ll see both an
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 31 3:20 PM
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                      On 7/31/2007 8:34 AM, udedomenico rambled on about ...:
                      > Well I was going through John's tutorial which is also about masking
                      > as you guys are talking about:
                      >
                      > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.houghton/blending.htm
                      >
                      >
                      > but if output the psd file I get some masks which do not sound right
                      > to me (they are all black?).... also I do not seem to be able to work
                      > on them by using the eraser tools, whatever I do iy does not change
                      > anything... the layers do not seem to be visible....
                      >
                      > http://www.umbertodedomenico.net/Test/Masks.JPG
                      >
                      >
                      > what am I doing wrong?
                      You don't want to use the eraser tool, you want to paint on the layer
                      mask with a soft-edged brush and white. Look at the layer and you'll
                      see both an image thumbnail and a layer mask thumbnail. The one you'll
                      be editing will have a rectangle around the thumbnail. To paint on the
                      layer mask you need to click on the layer mask thumbnail (you will see a
                      rectangle appear around the thumbnail, unless it was already targeted).
                      Now whatever you do on that layer will effect the layer mask. If you
                      need to work on the image directly then click on its thumbnail but you
                      really want to work on the layer mask because it's non-destructive of
                      the image itself.




                      Pat Swovelin
                      Cool Guy @ Large
                    • John Houghton
                      ... masking ... The tutorial shows masks as they appear for PSD output when PTStitcher is used, or when the layers only option is used with PTGui s stitcher.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 31 10:57 PM
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                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "udedomenico" <udedomenico@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Well I was going through John's tutorial which is also about
                        masking
                        > as you guys are talking about:
                        >
                        > http://homepage.ntlworld.com/j.houghton/blending.htm
                        >
                        >
                        > but if output the psd file I get some masks which do not sound
                        > right to me (they are all black?)....

                        The tutorial shows masks as they appear for PSD output when
                        PTStitcher is used, or when the layers only option is used with
                        PTGui's stitcher. The masks are all black when the blended+layers
                        option is selected, so the layers are invisible until you paint on
                        the masks with white. However, there are occasions when you might
                        prefer to have a mask that reveals the whole of the image in the
                        layer, in which case do:

                        In the layers palette:
                        1. ctrl+click the image thumbnail in the layer
                        2. click the mask thumbnail to select it
                        3. select the paint can tool and fill selection with white

                        John
                      • udedomenico
                        Pat, Leo and John, Thanks for the explanation. It has helped :) U.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 1, 2007
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                          Pat, Leo and John,

                          Thanks for the explanation.

                          It has helped :)

                          U.
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