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RE: [PanoToolsNG] OpenSource HDR panorama workflow

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  • Sacha Griffin
    You almost nailed it. It s NOT staying on the photographic side. Once you accept that, You ll find it amazing. Its neat to see where the cartoon starts and the
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 4, 2007
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      You almost nailed it.



      It's NOT staying on the photographic side.

      Once you accept that, You'll find it amazing.

      Its neat to see where the cartoon starts and the photo ends.



      The problem is when people do photographic tonemaping and they produce crap
      that kinda looks like that.



      Sacha Griffin
      Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
      www.southern-digital.com
      www.seeit360.net
      www.ezphotosafe.com
      404-551-4275
      404-731-7798

      _____

      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Michael Asgian
      Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 2:31 PM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] OpenSource HDR panorama workflow



      Yuv, to stay now on the photographic side, I dont think that THAT result
      advocates the opensource tonemapping... Is this a mistake? I dont like it at
      all...

      No offence please...

      __________________________________________________________
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      that gives answers, not web links.
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      yahoo.com/mobileweb/onesearch?refer=1ONXIC

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    • yuval_levy
      ... currently under heavy development and still slightly unstable - improvement expected in the coming week as it is one of our Google Summer of Code projects
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 4, 2007
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        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bruno Postle <bruno@...> wrote:
        > With freepv, a hardware accelerated QTVR viewer:
        >
        > http://freepv.sourceforge.net/

        currently under heavy development and still slightly unstable -
        improvement expected in the coming week as it is one of our Google
        Summer of Code projects and by the end of the summer it will display
        both QTVR and SPi-V panoramas.

        if you have ubuntu linux and you can't wait, the following
        instructions should get you started.

        start a terminal window and type
        $ sudo apt-get install libjpeg62-dev
        $ sudo apt-get install freeglut3-dev
        $ sudo apt-get install firefox-dev
        $ sudo apt-get install libxxf86vm-dev
        $ sudo apt-get install cmake
        $ svn co https://freepv.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/freepv freepv
        $ cd freepv/freepv/trunk/
        $ ccmake .

        in ccmake, press "c" to configure and "g" to generate and exit then
        type again:

        $ make

        test your compiled freepv:

        $ cd src/freepv-glut
        $ ./freepv-glut ../../testcases/good/MichelThoby_tiled_qtvr.mov

        install plugin

        $ sudo cp src/freepv-mozilla/libnpfreepv.so /usr/lib/mozilla-
        firefox/plugins/

        caveat: if you install it, freepv will take over for all QuickTime
        content and will prevent totem from showing QuickTime movies and
        object VR. if you need totem again, just remove libnpfreepv.so from
        the plugins directory and restart firefox.

        i've been through all current WWP entries and almost all of them
        work. a report will follow later tonight on the WWP mailing list.

        Yuv
      • Arnd Baecker
        Hi Bruno and Yuval, thanks a lot for your helpful replies! ... I use debian etch, so I will have to check, if the packages are recent enough. If so, it will be
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 4, 2007
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          Hi Bruno and Yuval,

          thanks a lot for your helpful replies!

          On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, yuval_levy wrote:

          > if you have ubuntu linux and you can't wait, the following
          > instructions should get you started.

          I use debian etch, so I will have to check,
          if the packages are recent enough. If so, it will be easy.

          Thanks a lot, Arnd
        • yuval_levy
          ... photography = drawing with light. My entry is on the photographic side. It is not on the trying to reproduce reality side of reporting photography. And
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 4, 2007
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            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
            wrote:
            > It's NOT staying on the photographic side.

            photography = drawing with light.

            My entry is on the photographic side. It is not on the "trying to
            reproduce reality" side of reporting photography. And it is also not
            on the side of "the limitation of the media are what looks natural".

            It is a very subjective, personal interpretation of a room that has
            seen and still sees very dramatic debates. It's history in the making.


            > Its neat to see where the cartoon starts and the photo ends.

            yeah! this panorama is just the start. Cartoon-like features are in
            the making. no deadline yet, but the concept is drawn on paper and the
            coding has started.

            stay tuned
            Yuv
          • Arnd Baecker
            Hi, ... [...] ... Hmm, I don t have this on debian stable (=etch), I installed ``mozilla-dev`` instead and also installed ``libxul-dev``, but ``ccmake .``
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 4, 2007
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              Hi,

              On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, yuval_levy wrote:

              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Bruno Postle <bruno@...> wrote:
              > > With freepv, a hardware accelerated QTVR viewer:
              > >
              > > http://freepv.sourceforge.net/

              [...]

              > $ sudo apt-get install firefox-dev

              Hmm, I don't have this on debian stable (=etch),
              I installed ``mozilla-dev`` instead
              and also installed ``libxul-dev``, but ``ccmake .``
              gives me the error message:
              CMake Error: could not finde GECKO SDK


              However, at least I got the rest working by removing
              all references to GECKO and the plugin.

              > test your compiled freepv:
              >
              > $ cd src/freepv-glut
              > $ ./freepv-glut ../../testcases/good/MichelThoby_tiled_qtvr.mov

              This worked - I am impressed!!
              (Wondering how you got the camera in the cage and
              made it rotate ...;-)

              Thanks a lot,

              Arnd
            • Pablo dAngelo
              ... You can also use automake (make -f Makefile.cvs; ./configure ; make ) to build freepv, it might recognize the mozilla sdk. ... Michel Thoby (the creator of
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                Arnd Baecker wrote:

                > Hi,
                >
                > On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, yuval_levy wrote:
                >
                >> $ sudo apt-get install firefox-dev
                >
                > Hmm, I don't have this on debian stable (=etch),
                > I installed ``mozilla-dev`` instead
                > and also installed ``libxul-dev``, but ``ccmake .``
                > gives me the error message:
                > CMake Error: could not finde GECKO SDK
                >
                >
                > However, at least I got the rest working by removing
                > all references to GECKO and the plugin.

                You can also use automake (make -f Makefile.cvs; ./configure ; make )
                to build freepv, it might recognize the mozilla sdk.

                >> test your compiled freepv:
                >>
                >> $ cd src/freepv-glut
                >> $ ./freepv-glut ../../testcases/good/MichelThoby_tiled_qtvr.mov
                >
                > This worked - I am impressed!!
                > (Wondering how you got the camera in the cage and
                > made it rotate ...;-)

                Michel Thoby (the creator of the above panorama) has a page
                on how he shoots macropanoramas:
                http://michel.thoby.free.fr/MacroPanos.html

                ciao
                Pablo
              • Arnd Baecker
                Hi Pablo, ... That part looks better, configure: Determining mozilla/firefox packages to build against checking for MOZPLUG... no configure: WARNING:
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                  Hi Pablo,

                  On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Pablo dAngelo wrote:

                  > Arnd Baecker wrote:
                  >
                  > > Hi,
                  > >
                  > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2007, yuval_levy wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> $ sudo apt-get install firefox-dev
                  > >
                  > > Hmm, I don't have this on debian stable (=etch),
                  > > I installed ``mozilla-dev`` instead
                  > > and also installed ``libxul-dev``, but ``ccmake .``
                  > > gives me the error message:
                  > > CMake Error: could not finde GECKO SDK
                  > >
                  > > However, at least I got the rest working by removing
                  > > all references to GECKO and the plugin.
                  >
                  > You can also use automake (make -f Makefile.cvs; ./configure ; make )
                  > to build freepv, it might recognize the mozilla sdk.

                  That part looks better,
                  configure: Determining mozilla/firefox packages to build against
                  checking for MOZPLUG... no
                  configure: WARNING: mozilla-plugin not found
                  checking for MOZPLUG... no
                  configure: WARNING: firefox-plugin not found
                  checking for MOZPLUG... no
                  configure: WARNING: seamonkey-plugin not found
                  checking for MOZPLUG... yes

                  It also compiles to a bunch of *.o in
                  the src/freepv-mozilla directory,
                  but there is no *.so in the end ...


                  > >> test your compiled freepv:
                  > >>
                  > >> $ cd src/freepv-glut
                  > >> $ ./freepv-glut ../../testcases/good/MichelThoby_tiled_qtvr.mov
                  > >
                  > > This worked - I am impressed!!
                  > > (Wondering how you got the camera in the cage and
                  > > made it rotate ...;-)
                  >
                  > Michel Thoby (the creator of the above panorama) has a page
                  > on how he shoots macropanoramas:
                  > http://michel.thoby.free.fr/MacroPanos.html

                  Thanks, that's amazing (as all the stuff in this NG!;
                  I don't go beyond these partial panoramae with far away objects ;-)

                  Best, Arnd
                • Bruno Postle
                  ... This is normal, look in the .libs directory. -- Bruno
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                    On Thu 05-Jul-2007 at 11:33 +0200, Arnd Baecker wrote:

                    >checking for MOZPLUG... yes
                    >
                    >It also compiles to a bunch of *.o in
                    >the src/freepv-mozilla directory,
                    >but there is no *.so in the end ...

                    This is normal, look in the .libs directory.

                    --
                    Bruno
                  • Yuval Levy
                    Joel, I hope you don t mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war. ... I don t feel attacked. when I
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                      Joel, I hope you don't mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate
                      your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war.


                      Joel M. Baldwin wrote:
                      > Do you see the un-naturalness of the pano? I'm not attacking the
                      > result, I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

                      I don't feel attacked. when I put that pano up, I knew some would love
                      it and some would hate it. This is art, not engineering and as an artist
                      I have the total freedom to go against the laws of gravity :-)

                      I am bringing back the meaning of "photography = drawing with light" as
                      opposed to "photography = (hopelessly) trying to capture reality". This
                      is art, not doc.

                      It has taken some time for me to realize that the fault in HDR was
                      trying to replicate what is deemed to be "natural". We probably disagree
                      on the definition of "natural". The limitation of current sensor,
                      processing and display technology is not natural to me. Which is why I
                      am in the quest for something different.

                      When I realized it, and I set free my creativity to use the added
                      dimensions offered by tonemapping, I obtained these results that were at
                      first shocking. Then I found pleasure in them - reminded me of the first
                      time I tasted wine and how shocking that was in contrast to "kids drinks".

                      Like with many artistic experiments, I don't know if the public will
                      like it or not. I don't care. I don't know if it will ever become
                      fashionable or if it will be considered an ugly, tasteless extravaganza.
                      I don't know if it will be short-lived or if it will live on. What I do
                      know is that this is what I felt to produce at the moment and so I did.

                      So my take is that it is natural in current digital media with linear
                      response curves to have blown out highlights and extremely dark shadows.
                      And it is natural for HDR media with manipulated response curves and
                      locally enhanced (or even exacerbated) contrast to have different
                      characteristics. There is no right or wrong. To me, there is only fun
                      and excitement in pushing the envelope!

                      Yuv
                    • Chris Thomas
                      The richness of this List is. That there are so many with such Depth of Techno Alongside Bleeding Edge Artists. Most seem to have a healthy portion of
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                        The "richness" of this "List" is.



                        That there are so many with such "Depth of Techno"

                        Alongside "Bleeding Edge" Artists.



                        Most seem to have a healthy portion of both..

                        Mileage does vary.. "Thank God!"



                        Thanks Yuv.. for sharing your "Explorations".



                        It's beautiful and even contain more information, than a "normal"
                        photograph.





                        chris



                        Chris Thomas

                        Photographer

                        cell... 403-615-1212

                        In North America

                        call... 1-800-870-5110

                        <http://www.christhomas.com/> http://www.christhomas.com



                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Yuval Levy
                        Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 8:22 AM
                        To: Joel M. Baldwin; PanotoolsNG Yahoo group
                        Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] OpenSource HDR panorama workflow



                        Joel, I hope you don't mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate
                        your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war.

                        Joel M. Baldwin wrote:
                        > Do you see the un-naturalness of the pano? I'm not attacking the
                        > result, I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

                        I don't feel attacked. when I put that pano up, I knew some would love
                        it and some would hate it. This is art, not engineering and as an artist
                        I have the total freedom to go against the laws of gravity :-)

                        I am bringing back the meaning of "photography = drawing with light" as
                        opposed to "photography = (hopelessly) trying to capture reality". This
                        is art, not doc.

                        It has taken some time for me to realize that the fault in HDR was
                        trying to replicate what is deemed to be "natural". We probably disagree
                        on the definition of "natural". The limitation of current sensor,
                        processing and display technology is not natural to me. Which is why I
                        am in the quest for something different.

                        When I realized it, and I set free my creativity to use the added
                        dimensions offered by tonemapping, I obtained these results that were at
                        first shocking. Then I found pleasure in them - reminded me of the first
                        time I tasted wine and how shocking that was in contrast to "kids drinks".

                        Like with many artistic experiments, I don't know if the public will
                        like it or not. I don't care. I don't know if it will ever become
                        fashionable or if it will be considered an ugly, tasteless extravaganza.
                        I don't know if it will be short-lived or if it will live on. What I do
                        know is that this is what I felt to produce at the moment and so I did.

                        So my take is that it is natural in current digital media with linear
                        response curves to have blown out highlights and extremely dark shadows.
                        And it is natural for HDR media with manipulated response curves and
                        locally enhanced (or even exacerbated) contrast to have different
                        characteristics. There is no right or wrong. To me, there is only fun
                        and excitement in pushing the envelope!

                        Yuv

                        .


                        <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=18227848/grpspId=1705006496/msgI
                        d=10803/stime=1183645446/nc1=4025338/nc2=4699084/nc3=3848643>




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Rodolpho Pajuaba
                        Not exactly the same thing, but alt-photo master Dan Burkholder did a series of photographs of, among other subjects, New Orleans post-Katrina, exploring the
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                          Not exactly the same thing, but alt-photo master Dan Burkholder did a
                          series of photographs of, among other subjects, New Orleans
                          post-Katrina, exploring the multiple possibilities of
                          HDR-shooting:<http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/Jun07/showpage.taf?page=8>
                          The result is in a way similar to the wonderful one achieved by Yuval.
                          And no, he was not trying to represent reality ;-) .
                          Regards,
                          Rodolpho Pajuaba

                          Yuval Levy escreveu:
                          > Joel, I hope you don't mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate
                          > your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war.
                          >
                          >
                          > Joel M. Baldwin wrote:
                          >> Do you see the un-naturalness of the pano? I'm not attacking the
                          >> result, I'm just trying to understand your perspective.
                          >
                          > I don't feel attacked. when I put that pano up, I knew some would love
                          > it and some would hate it. This is art, not engineering and as an artist
                          > I have the total freedom to go against the laws of gravity :-)
                          >
                        • Rodolpho Pajuaba
                          More pictures of the Katrina series: Regards, Rodolpho Pajuaba
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                            More pictures of the Katrina series:
                            <http://www.danburkholder.com/neworleans/>
                            Regards,
                            Rodolpho Pajuaba

                            Rodolpho Pajuaba escreveu:
                            > Not exactly the same thing, but alt-photo master Dan Burkholder did a
                            > series of photographs of, among other subjects, New Orleans
                            > post-Katrina, exploring the multiple possibilities of
                            > HDR-shooting:<http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/Jun07/showpage.taf?page=8>
                            > The result is in a way similar to the wonderful one achieved by Yuval.
                            > And no, he was not trying to represent reality ;-) .
                            > Regards,
                            > Rodolpho Pajuaba
                            >
                            > Yuval Levy escreveu:
                            >> Joel, I hope you don't mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate
                            >> your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war.
                            >>
                            >>
                            >> Joel M. Baldwin wrote:
                            >>> Do you see the un-naturalness of the pano? I'm not attacking the
                            >>> result, I'm just trying to understand your perspective.
                            >> I don't feel attacked. when I put that pano up, I knew some would love
                            >> it and some would hate it. This is art, not engineering and as an artist
                            >> I have the total freedom to go against the laws of gravity :-)
                            >>
                            >
                            >
                          • Michael Asgian
                            Yuv, In a way I feel responsible because I first started the seed of flame (but not intended); happily, ppl on the list are civilized enought to have a very
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 5, 2007
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                              Yuv, In a way I feel responsible because I first started the seed of flame (but not intended); happily, ppl on the list are civilized enought to have a very intersting discussion about this non technical aspect of your pano.

                              I dident questioned at all the artistic aspect. That's why I said from the beginning "on the photography side". My point is that hdr can be used to overcome the limited cappacity of today sensors by expanding the dynamic range. Fantastic results can be obtained...

                              Overdoing the hdr compressions and "effects" is the most common thing anyone can achieve (with any hdr software). getting amazing images with hdr are really a question of understanding the tonemapping techiniques and using them exactlly in the right ammount.

                              There is also another consideration about the umbrella of art that covers any tech problems... but I wont take that plunge...

                              With friendship,
                              Michael

                              ----- Original Message ----
                              From: Yuval Levy <yahoo06@...>
                              To: Joel M. Baldwin <qumqats@...>; PanotoolsNG Yahoo group <PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com>
                              Sent: Thursday, July 5, 2007 7:21:52 AM
                              Subject: Re: [PanoToolsNG] OpenSource HDR panorama workflow

                              Joel, I hope you don't mind if I share this with the list. I appreciate
                              your kindness of not wanting to start a flame war.

                              Joel M. Baldwin wrote:
                              > Do you see the un-naturalness of the pano? I'm not attacking the
                              > result, I'm just trying to understand your perspective.

                              I don't feel attacked. when I put that pano up, I knew some would love
                              it and some would hate it. This is art, not engineering and as an artist
                              I have the total freedom to go against the laws of gravity :-)

                              I am bringing back the meaning of "photography = drawing with light" as
                              opposed to "photography = (hopelessly) trying to capture reality". This
                              is art, not doc.

                              It has taken some time for me to realize that the fault in HDR was
                              trying to replicate what is deemed to be "natural". We probably disagree
                              on the definition of "natural". The limitation of current sensor,
                              processing and display technology is not natural to me. Which is why I
                              am in the quest for something different.

                              When I realized it, and I set free my creativity to use the added
                              dimensions offered by tonemapping, I obtained these results that were at
                              first shocking. Then I found pleasure in them - reminded me of the first
                              time I tasted wine and how shocking that was in contrast to "kids drinks".

                              Like with many artistic experiments, I don't know if the public will
                              like it or not. I don't care. I don't know if it will ever become
                              fashionable or if it will be considered an ugly, tasteless extravaganza.
                              I don't know if it will be short-lived or if it will live on. What I do
                              know is that this is what I felt to produce at the moment and so I did.

                              So my take is that it is natural in current digital media with linear
                              response curves to have blown out highlights and extremely dark shadows.
                              And it is natural for HDR media with manipulated response curves and
                              locally enhanced (or even exacerbated) contrast to have different
                              characteristics. There is no right or wrong. To me, there is only fun
                              and excitement in pushing the envelope!

                              Yuv





                              ____________________________________________________________________________________
                              TV dinner still cooling?
                              Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV.
                              http://tv.yahoo.com/

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Yuval Levy
                              ... thanks for sharing - absolutely wonderful! Yuv
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 8, 2007
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                                Rodolpho Pajuaba wrote:
                                > HDR-shooting:<http://www.rangefindermag.com/magazine/Jun07/showpage.taf?page=8>

                                thanks for sharing - absolutely wonderful!
                                Yuv
                              • Yuval Levy
                                ... don t worry, this was no flame IMO, you had good intentions and you stimulated an interesting discussion. ... Disagree. The point is that there is no right
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 8, 2007
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                                  Michael Asgian wrote:
                                  > In a way I feel responsible because I first started the seed of flame

                                  don't worry, this was no flame IMO, you had good intentions and you
                                  stimulated an interesting discussion.


                                  > getting amazing images with hdr are really a question of understanding
                                  > the tonemapping techiniques and using them exactlly in the right ammount.

                                  Disagree. The point is that there is no right amount, exactly like there
                                  is no right exposure.

                                  There is is a range of possibilities that has been widened up for the
                                  photographer. More choice for him to draw (graph) with light (photo)
                                  what is needed by the specific application.

                                  Yuv
                                • Arnd Baecker
                                  Hi Bruno, ... Yes, there it is - thanks a lot! And, most importantly it does work brilliantly. This is the first time I can watch a QTVR in my browser - very
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 10, 2007
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                                    Hi Bruno,

                                    On Thu, 5 Jul 2007, Bruno Postle wrote:

                                    > On Thu 05-Jul-2007 at 11:33 +0200, Arnd Baecker wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >checking for MOZPLUG... yes
                                    > >
                                    > >It also compiles to a bunch of *.o in
                                    > >the src/freepv-mozilla directory,
                                    > >but there is no *.so in the end ...
                                    >
                                    > This is normal, look in the .libs directory.

                                    Yes, there it is - thanks a lot!

                                    And, most importantly it does work brilliantly.
                                    This is the first time I can watch a QTVR
                                    in my browser - very impressive....!!
                                    (Is there any open source software for linux to produce such QTVRs?)

                                    Thanks a lot, Arnd
                                  • Bruno Postle
                                    ... Yes, there are two related command-line tools: jpeg2qtvr will take six JPEG cube-faces and wrap them up into a .mov file, and erect2qtvr is a wrapper
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 10, 2007
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                                      On Tue 10-Jul-2007 at 13:29 +0200, Arnd Baecker wrote:

                                      > (Is there any open source software for linux to produce such QTVRs?)

                                      Yes, there are two related command-line tools: jpeg2qtvr will take
                                      six JPEG cube-faces and wrap them up into a .mov file, and
                                      erect2qtvr is a wrapper script that manages the whole process of
                                      converting an equirectangular image to a .mov file.

                                      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Panotools-Script/bin/jpeg2qtvr
                                      http://search.cpan.org/dist/Panotools-Script/bin/erect2qtvr

                                      --
                                      Bruno
                                    • Georgia Real Tours
                                      ... Hi Yuv, I m coming to this party *way* late. I just wanted to say that I *love* the photo. For me, it is perfectly balanced between realism and
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Aug 22, 2007
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                                        On 7/4/07, yuval_levy <yahoo06@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" <sachagriffin@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        > > It's NOT staying on the photographic side.
                                        >
                                        > photography = drawing with light.
                                        >
                                        > My entry is on the photographic side. It is not on the "trying to
                                        > reproduce reality" side of reporting photography. And it is also not
                                        > on the side of "the limitation of the media are what looks natural".
                                        >
                                        > It is a very subjective, personal interpretation of a room that has
                                        > seen and still sees very dramatic debates. It's history in the making.
                                        >
                                        > > Its neat to see where the cartoon starts and the photo ends.
                                        >
                                        > yeah! this panorama is just the start. Cartoon-like features are in
                                        > the making. no deadline yet, but the concept is drawn on paper and the
                                        > coding has started.

                                        Hi Yuv,

                                        I'm coming to this party *way* late. I just wanted to say that I
                                        *love* the photo. For me, it is perfectly balanced between realism
                                        and conceptualization. And unless a viewer was expecting an
                                        unmodified photograph I am certain they would be suitably impressed
                                        and awed.

                                        Cheers,
                                        Robert~

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