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Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?

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  • Roger Berry
    I m a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16 bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything looked normal. Here s how
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 3 1:29 PM
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      I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
      bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
      looked normal.
      Here's how it turned out:
      http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
      Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
      on it some more.

      Thanks
      Roger


      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
      <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
      >
      > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
      >
      >
      >
      > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
      >
      >
      >
      > Sacha Griffin
      > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
      > www.southern-digital.com
      > www.seeit360.net
      > www.ezphotosafe.com
      > 404-551-4275
      > 404-731-7798
      >
      > _____
      >
      > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      > Behalf Of Roger Berry
      > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
      > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
      >
    • Sacha Griffin
      Looks great! Don t forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all those green and red fringes will be gone. I m not sure what 16bit would have to do
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 3 2:20 PM
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        Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all
        those green and red fringes will be gone.



        I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I feed
        pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.

        Sacha Griffin
        Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
        www.southern-digital.com
        www.seeit360.net
        www.ezphotosafe.com
        404-551-4275
        404-731-7798

        _____

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Roger Berry
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



        I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
        bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
        looked normal.
        Here's how it turned out:
        http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
        tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
        Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
        on it some more.

        Thanks
        Roger

        --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
        "Sacha Griffin"
        <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
        >
        >
        >
        > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
        >
        >
        >
        > Sacha Griffin
        > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
        > www.southern-digital.com
        > www.seeit360.net
        > www.ezphotosafe.com
        > 404-551-4275
        > 404-731-7798
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
        On
        > Behalf Of Roger Berry
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
        > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
        >





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carl von Einem
        Hi Roger, it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 3 2:32 PM
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          Hi Roger,

          it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels
          but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
          us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)

          Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!

          Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in a
          profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make Photoshop
          simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good start but you
          might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.

          http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm gives a
          comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something about gamut.

          http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color space
          profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
          information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here is the
          direct link:
          http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf

          As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your working
          file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB since
          Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have to do this
          step in advance.

          More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
          Carl


          Roger Berry wrote:
          >
          > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
          > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
          > looked normal.
          > Here's how it turned out:
          > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
          > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
          > on it some more.
          > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
          >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
          >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
          >

          --
          View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
          Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
        • matt_nolan_uaf
          Sacha, Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I m trying to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots. I see a little
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 3 2:36 PM
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            Sacha,

            Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
            to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
            I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
            stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
            to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
            get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

            Thanks,
            Matt


            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
            <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
            Then all
            > those green and red fringes will be gone.
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
            feed
            > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
            >
            > Sacha Griffin
            > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
            > www.southern-digital.com
            > www.seeit360.net
            > www.ezphotosafe.com
            > 404-551-4275
            > 404-731-7798
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            > Behalf Of Roger Berry
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
            > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
            >
            >
            >
            > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
            > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
            > looked normal.
            > Here's how it turned out:
            > http://www.camelpho
            <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
            > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
            > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
            > on it some more.
            >
            > Thanks
            > Roger
            >
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com,
            > "Sacha Griffin"
            > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Sacha Griffin
            > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
            > > www.southern-digital.com
            > > www.seeit360.net
            > > www.ezphotosafe.com
            > > 404-551-4275
            > > 404-731-7798
            > >
            > > _____
            > >
            > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com]
            > On
            > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
            > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
            > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
            yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Jakob Norstedt-Moberg
            ... working ... since The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 3 2:44 PM
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
              >
              > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
              working
              > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
              since

              The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode
              (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
              last step to avoid posterisation.

              Jakob
            • Sacha Griffin
              There s a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark camel on a leash. The legs show a lot of fringing. I m not sure what the lens is..
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3 2:44 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                There's a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark
                camel on a leash.

                The legs show a lot of fringing.

                I'm not sure what the lens is.. Either a sigma 3.5 on a 5D. Or it could be
                the Nikon 10.5.

                Its pretty strong, so it must be from the very edge of the lens on a full
                frame camera.



                Sacha Griffin
                Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                www.southern-digital.com
                www.seeit360.net
                www.ezphotosafe.com
                404-551-4275
                404-731-7798

                _____

                From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of matt_nolan_uaf
                Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:37 PM
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                Sacha,

                Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
                to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
                I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
                stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
                to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
                get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

                Thanks,
                Matt

                --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                "Sacha Griffin"
                <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
                Then all
                > those green and red fringes will be gone.
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
                feed
                > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
                >
                > Sacha Griffin
                > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                > www.southern-digital.com
                > www.seeit360.net
                > www.ezphotosafe.com
                > 404-551-4275
                > 404-731-7798
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                On
                > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
                > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
                > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                > looked normal.
                > Here's how it turned out:
                > http://www.camelpho
                <http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                > on it some more.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Roger
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com,
                > "Sacha Griffin"
                > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Sacha Griffin
                > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                > > www.southern-digital.com
                > > www.seeit360.net
                > > www.ezphotosafe.com
                > > 404-551-4275
                > > 404-731-7798
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com]
                > On
                > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
                > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • matt_nolan_uaf
                Carl, I m a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two printers -- there
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3 2:47 PM
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                  Carl,

                  I'm a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section
                  on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two
                  printers -- there is only one gray outline in each of the 3 luminance
                  figures, which printer does this represent? Or am I missing
                  something really obvious?

                  Thanks,
                  Matt


                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > Hi Roger,
                  >
                  > it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are
                  Camels
                  > but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want
                  to make
                  > us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)
                  >
                  > Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!
                  >
                  > Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in
                  a
                  > profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make
                  Photoshop
                  > simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good
                  start but you
                  > might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.
                  >
                  > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm
                  gives a
                  > comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something
                  about gamut.
                  >
                  > http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color
                  space
                  > profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
                  > information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here
                  is the
                  > direct link:
                  > http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-
                  en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf
                  >
                  > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
                  working
                  > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
                  since
                  > Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have
                  to do this
                  > step in advance.
                  >
                  > More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
                  > Carl
                  >
                  >
                  > Roger Berry wrote:
                  > >
                  > > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in
                  16
                  > > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                  > > looked normal.
                  > > Here's how it turned out:
                  > > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                  > > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                  > > on it some more.
                  > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
                  > >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                  > >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                  > >
                  >
                  > --
                  > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-
                  Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
                  > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                  >
                • Andrey Ilyin
                  Carl, There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3 2:49 PM
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                    Carl,

                    There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and
                    Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).

                    http://www.ultimateungulate.com/Artiodactyla/Camelus_bactrianus.html
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary


                    Andrey
                  • Roger Berry
                    I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D, Sigma 8mm F 3.5
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 3 7:57 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                      photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                      Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                      the lens.
                      Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                      looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                      I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                      through Pano2QTVR.
                      Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                      I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                      How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                      Thanks for all of the help,
                      Roger

                      Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.
                    • Sacha Griffin
                      Edit - Convert to Profile - Destination Space sRGB - Ok - Save You don t need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and you are eeking
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 3 8:04 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Edit -> Convert to Profile -> Destination Space sRGB -> Ok -> Save



                        You don't need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and
                        you are eeking your last inch of quality out.

                        I don't want to hear an endless discussion on the merits of adobergb.

                        Its more annoying to save an adobergb and srbg tiff and store both copies,
                        than perhaps gain that little bit of quality out on the rare chance you're
                        going to make a big print.



                        Sacha Griffin
                        Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                        www.southern-digital.com
                        www.seeit360.net
                        www.ezphotosafe.com
                        404-551-4275
                        404-731-7798

                        _____

                        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of Roger Berry
                        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:58 PM
                        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                        I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                        photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                        Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                        the lens.
                        Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                        looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                        I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                        through Pano2QTVR.
                        Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                        I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                        How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                        Thanks for all of the help,
                        Roger

                        Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Roger Berry
                        I learned a lot today and with everyone s help and finally got this pano redone. Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the camels
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 3 10:15 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I learned a lot today and with everyone's help and finally got this
                          pano redone.
                          Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the
                          camels to drink is something like Blup-Blup. Don't know if I well be
                          able to find that audio with about 10 hours of video footage on my
                          hard drive from here.
                          http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water2.html

                          Thanks all,
                          Roger
                        • John Houghton
                          ... The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can easily be
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 4 12:18 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > always convert, never make Photoshop simply set a profile without
                            > conversion!

                            The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and
                            should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can
                            easily be lost during processing by various applications. When this
                            happens and Photoshop reports the icc profile in a file as "untagged
                            rgb", then it is important to use the assign option to restore the
                            correct profile, not the convert option.

                            John
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