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RE: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?

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  • Sacha Griffin
    Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren t color changers. Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC -
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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      Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.



      Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.



      Sacha Griffin
      Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
      www.southern-digital.com
      www.seeit360.net
      www.ezphotosafe.com
      404-551-4275
      404-731-7798

      _____

      From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Roger Berry
      Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



      I'm having a problem when using Pano2QTR. There seems to be a lot of
      color loss and I've had no luck getting it back no matter what I do.
      I'm saving it full size, Quality setting 100% and have tried 4
      different Interpolator settings but it still comes out the same.
      Here is a screen shot showing the before and after:
      http://CamelPhotos. <http://CamelPhotos.com/india2/pic4/quality.jpg>
      com/india2/pic4/quality.jpg

      Roger





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Roger Berry
      I m a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16 bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything looked normal. Here s how
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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        I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
        bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
        looked normal.
        Here's how it turned out:
        http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
        Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
        on it some more.

        Thanks
        Roger


        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
        <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
        >
        > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
        >
        >
        >
        > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
        >
        >
        >
        > Sacha Griffin
        > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
        > www.southern-digital.com
        > www.seeit360.net
        > www.ezphotosafe.com
        > 404-551-4275
        > 404-731-7798
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Roger Berry
        > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
        >
      • Sacha Griffin
        Looks great! Don t forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all those green and red fringes will be gone. I m not sure what 16bit would have to do
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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          Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all
          those green and red fringes will be gone.



          I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I feed
          pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.

          Sacha Griffin
          Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
          www.southern-digital.com
          www.seeit360.net
          www.ezphotosafe.com
          404-551-4275
          404-731-7798

          _____

          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Roger Berry
          Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



          I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
          bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
          looked normal.
          Here's how it turned out:
          http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
          tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
          Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
          on it some more.

          Thanks
          Roger

          --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
          "Sacha Griffin"
          <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
          >
          >
          >
          > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sacha Griffin
          > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
          > www.southern-digital.com
          > www.seeit360.net
          > www.ezphotosafe.com
          > 404-551-4275
          > 404-731-7798
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
          On
          > Behalf Of Roger Berry
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
          > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
          >





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Carl von Einem
          Hi Roger, it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Roger,

            it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels
            but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
            us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)

            Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!

            Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in a
            profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make Photoshop
            simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good start but you
            might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.

            http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm gives a
            comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something about gamut.

            http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color space
            profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
            information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here is the
            direct link:
            http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf

            As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your working
            file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB since
            Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have to do this
            step in advance.

            More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
            Carl


            Roger Berry wrote:
            >
            > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
            > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
            > looked normal.
            > Here's how it turned out:
            > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
            > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
            > on it some more.
            > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
            >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
            >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
            >

            --
            View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
            Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
          • matt_nolan_uaf
            Sacha, Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I m trying to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots. I see a little
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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              Sacha,

              Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
              to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
              I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
              stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
              to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
              get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

              Thanks,
              Matt


              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
              <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
              >
              > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
              Then all
              > those green and red fringes will be gone.
              >
              >
              >
              > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
              feed
              > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
              >
              > Sacha Griffin
              > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
              > www.southern-digital.com
              > www.seeit360.net
              > www.ezphotosafe.com
              > 404-551-4275
              > 404-731-7798
              >
              > _____
              >
              > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of Roger Berry
              > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
              >
              >
              >
              > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
              > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
              > looked normal.
              > Here's how it turned out:
              > http://www.camelpho
              <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
              > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
              > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
              > on it some more.
              >
              > Thanks
              > Roger
              >
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com,
              > "Sacha Griffin"
              > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
              > >
              > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > Sacha Griffin
              > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
              > > www.southern-digital.com
              > > www.seeit360.net
              > > www.ezphotosafe.com
              > > 404-551-4275
              > > 404-731-7798
              > >
              > > _____
              > >
              > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com
              > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com]
              > On
              > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
              > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
              > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
              yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Jakob Norstedt-Moberg
              ... working ... since The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                >
                > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
                working
                > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
                since

                The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode
                (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
                last step to avoid posterisation.

                Jakob
              • Sacha Griffin
                There s a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark camel on a leash. The legs show a lot of fringing. I m not sure what the lens is..
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  There's a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark
                  camel on a leash.

                  The legs show a lot of fringing.

                  I'm not sure what the lens is.. Either a sigma 3.5 on a 5D. Or it could be
                  the Nikon 10.5.

                  Its pretty strong, so it must be from the very edge of the lens on a full
                  frame camera.



                  Sacha Griffin
                  Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                  www.southern-digital.com
                  www.seeit360.net
                  www.ezphotosafe.com
                  404-551-4275
                  404-731-7798

                  _____

                  From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of matt_nolan_uaf
                  Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:37 PM
                  To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                  Sacha,

                  Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
                  to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
                  I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
                  stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
                  to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
                  get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

                  Thanks,
                  Matt

                  --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                  "Sacha Griffin"
                  <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
                  Then all
                  > those green and red fringes will be gone.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
                  feed
                  > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
                  >
                  > Sacha Griffin
                  > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                  > www.southern-digital.com
                  > www.seeit360.net
                  > www.ezphotosafe.com
                  > 404-551-4275
                  > 404-731-7798
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                  On
                  > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                  > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
                  > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
                  > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                  > looked normal.
                  > Here's how it turned out:
                  > http://www.camelpho
                  <http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                  tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                  > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                  > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                  > on it some more.
                  >
                  > Thanks
                  > Roger
                  >
                  > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com,
                  > "Sacha Griffin"
                  > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Sacha Griffin
                  > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                  > > www.southern-digital.com
                  > > www.seeit360.net
                  > > www.ezphotosafe.com
                  > > 404-551-4275
                  > > 404-731-7798
                  > >
                  > > _____
                  > >
                  > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com
                  > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com]
                  > On
                  > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                  > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
                  > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                  yahoogroups.com
                  > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • matt_nolan_uaf
                  Carl, I m a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two printers -- there
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    Carl,

                    I'm a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section
                    on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two
                    printers -- there is only one gray outline in each of the 3 luminance
                    figures, which printer does this represent? Or am I missing
                    something really obvious?

                    Thanks,
                    Matt


                    --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Roger,
                    >
                    > it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are
                    Camels
                    > but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want
                    to make
                    > us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)
                    >
                    > Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!
                    >
                    > Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in
                    a
                    > profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make
                    Photoshop
                    > simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good
                    start but you
                    > might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.
                    >
                    > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm
                    gives a
                    > comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something
                    about gamut.
                    >
                    > http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color
                    space
                    > profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
                    > information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here
                    is the
                    > direct link:
                    > http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-
                    en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf
                    >
                    > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
                    working
                    > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
                    since
                    > Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have
                    to do this
                    > step in advance.
                    >
                    > More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
                    > Carl
                    >
                    >
                    > Roger Berry wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in
                    16
                    > > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                    > > looked normal.
                    > > Here's how it turned out:
                    > > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                    > > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                    > > on it some more.
                    > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
                    > >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                    > >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                    > >
                    >
                    > --
                    > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-
                    Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
                    > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                    >
                  • Andrey Ilyin
                    Carl, There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Carl,

                      There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and
                      Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).

                      http://www.ultimateungulate.com/Artiodactyla/Camelus_bactrianus.html
                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary


                      Andrey
                    • Roger Berry
                      I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D, Sigma 8mm F 3.5
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                        photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                        Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                        the lens.
                        Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                        looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                        I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                        through Pano2QTVR.
                        Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                        I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                        How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                        Thanks for all of the help,
                        Roger

                        Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.
                      • Sacha Griffin
                        Edit - Convert to Profile - Destination Space sRGB - Ok - Save You don t need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and you are eeking
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                          Edit -> Convert to Profile -> Destination Space sRGB -> Ok -> Save



                          You don't need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and
                          you are eeking your last inch of quality out.

                          I don't want to hear an endless discussion on the merits of adobergb.

                          Its more annoying to save an adobergb and srbg tiff and store both copies,
                          than perhaps gain that little bit of quality out on the rare chance you're
                          going to make a big print.



                          Sacha Griffin
                          Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                          www.southern-digital.com
                          www.seeit360.net
                          www.ezphotosafe.com
                          404-551-4275
                          404-731-7798

                          _____

                          From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                          Behalf Of Roger Berry
                          Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:58 PM
                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                          I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                          photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                          Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                          the lens.
                          Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                          looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                          I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                          through Pano2QTVR.
                          Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                          I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                          How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                          Thanks for all of the help,
                          Roger

                          Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Roger Berry
                          I learned a lot today and with everyone s help and finally got this pano redone. Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the camels
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I learned a lot today and with everyone's help and finally got this
                            pano redone.
                            Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the
                            camels to drink is something like Blup-Blup. Don't know if I well be
                            able to find that audio with about 10 hours of video footage on my
                            hard drive from here.
                            http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water2.html

                            Thanks all,
                            Roger
                          • John Houghton
                            ... The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can easily be
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 4, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > always convert, never make Photoshop simply set a profile without
                              > conversion!

                              The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and
                              should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can
                              easily be lost during processing by various applications. When this
                              happens and Photoshop reports the icc profile in a file as "untagged
                              rgb", then it is important to use the assign option to restore the
                              correct profile, not the convert option.

                              John
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