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Pano2QTR Color Loss ?

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  • Roger Berry
    I m having a problem when using Pano2QTR. There seems to be a lot of color loss and I ve had no luck getting it back no matter what I do. I m saving it full
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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      I'm having a problem when using Pano2QTR. There seems to be a lot of
      color loss and I've had no luck getting it back no matter what I do.
      I'm saving it full size, Quality setting 100% and have tried 4
      different Interpolator settings but it still comes out the same.
      Here is a screen shot showing the before and after:
      http://CamelPhotos.com/india2/pic4/quality.jpg

      Roger
    • Sacha Griffin
      Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren t color changers. Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC -
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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        Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.



        Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.



        Sacha Griffin
        Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
        www.southern-digital.com
        www.seeit360.net
        www.ezphotosafe.com
        404-551-4275
        404-731-7798

        _____

        From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Roger Berry
        Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



        I'm having a problem when using Pano2QTR. There seems to be a lot of
        color loss and I've had no luck getting it back no matter what I do.
        I'm saving it full size, Quality setting 100% and have tried 4
        different Interpolator settings but it still comes out the same.
        Here is a screen shot showing the before and after:
        http://CamelPhotos. <http://CamelPhotos.com/india2/pic4/quality.jpg>
        com/india2/pic4/quality.jpg

        Roger





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Roger Berry
        I m a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16 bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything looked normal. Here s how
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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          I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
          bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
          looked normal.
          Here's how it turned out:
          http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
          Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
          on it some more.

          Thanks
          Roger


          --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
          <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
          >
          > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
          >
          >
          >
          > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
          >
          >
          >
          > Sacha Griffin
          > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
          > www.southern-digital.com
          > www.seeit360.net
          > www.ezphotosafe.com
          > 404-551-4275
          > 404-731-7798
          >
          > _____
          >
          > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
          > Behalf Of Roger Berry
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
          > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
          >
        • Sacha Griffin
          Looks great! Don t forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all those green and red fringes will be gone. I m not sure what 16bit would have to do
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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            Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time. Then all
            those green and red fringes will be gone.



            I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I feed
            pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.

            Sacha Griffin
            Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
            www.southern-digital.com
            www.seeit360.net
            www.ezphotosafe.com
            404-551-4275
            404-731-7798

            _____

            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
            Behalf Of Roger Berry
            Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



            I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
            bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
            looked normal.
            Here's how it turned out:
            http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
            tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
            Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
            on it some more.

            Thanks
            Roger

            --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
            "Sacha Griffin"
            <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
            >
            > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
            >
            >
            >
            > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
            >
            >
            >
            > Sacha Griffin
            > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
            > www.southern-digital.com
            > www.seeit360.net
            > www.ezphotosafe.com
            > 404-551-4275
            > 404-731-7798
            >
            > _____
            >
            > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
            [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
            On
            > Behalf Of Roger Berry
            > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
            > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carl von Einem
            Hi Roger, it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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              Hi Roger,

              it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are Camels
              but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want to make
              us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)

              Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!

              Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in a
              profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make Photoshop
              simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good start but you
              might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.

              http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm gives a
              comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something about gamut.

              http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color space
              profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
              information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here is the
              direct link:
              http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf

              As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your working
              file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB since
              Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have to do this
              step in advance.

              More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
              Carl


              Roger Berry wrote:
              >
              > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
              > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
              > looked normal.
              > Here's how it turned out:
              > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
              > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
              > on it some more.
              > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
              >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
              >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
              >

              --
              View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
              Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
            • matt_nolan_uaf
              Sacha, Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I m trying to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots. I see a little
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                Sacha,

                Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
                to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
                I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
                stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
                to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
                get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

                Thanks,
                Matt


                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
                <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                >
                > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
                Then all
                > those green and red fringes will be gone.
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
                feed
                > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
                >
                > Sacha Griffin
                > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                > www.southern-digital.com
                > www.seeit360.net
                > www.ezphotosafe.com
                > 404-551-4275
                > 404-731-7798
                >
                > _____
                >
                > From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
                > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
                > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                > looked normal.
                > Here's how it turned out:
                > http://www.camelpho
                <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                > on it some more.
                >
                > Thanks
                > Roger
                >
                > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com,
                > "Sacha Griffin"
                > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Sacha Griffin
                > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                > > www.southern-digital.com
                > > www.seeit360.net
                > > www.ezphotosafe.com
                > > 404-551-4275
                > > 404-731-7798
                > >
                > > _____
                > >
                > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com]
                > On
                > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
                > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                yahoogroups.com
                > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Jakob Norstedt-Moberg
                ... working ... since The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
                  working
                  > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
                  since

                  The reverse order is better. Do as much as possible in 16 bit mode
                  (e.g. convert to sRGB) and while ready convert to 8 bit as the very
                  last step to avoid posterisation.

                  Jakob
                • Sacha Griffin
                  There s a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark camel on a leash. The legs show a lot of fringing. I m not sure what the lens is..
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                    There's a guy standing on the other side of the water trough with a dark
                    camel on a leash.

                    The legs show a lot of fringing.

                    I'm not sure what the lens is.. Either a sigma 3.5 on a 5D. Or it could be
                    the Nikon 10.5.

                    Its pretty strong, so it must be from the very edge of the lens on a full
                    frame camera.



                    Sacha Griffin
                    Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                    www.southern-digital.com
                    www.seeit360.net
                    www.ezphotosafe.com
                    404-551-4275
                    404-731-7798

                    _____

                    From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of matt_nolan_uaf
                    Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:37 PM
                    To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                    Sacha,

                    Can you point out where you see green and red fringing? I'm trying
                    to train my eye to spot things like this, so I can improve my shots.
                    I see a little red on the right side of the head of the guy with the
                    stick standing near the camera, but nothing else. I know it's tough
                    to describe locations, but just a few points would do, just so I can
                    get a sense of these artifacts on my own.

                    Thanks,
                    Matt

                    --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                    "Sacha Griffin"
                    <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Looks great! Don't forget to correct your aberration next time.
                    Then all
                    > those green and red fringes will be gone.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm not sure what 16bit would have to do with color saturation. I
                    feed
                    > pano2qtvr 16bit always as well.
                    >
                    > Sacha Griffin
                    > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                    > www.southern-digital.com
                    > www.seeit360.net
                    > www.ezphotosafe.com
                    > 404-551-4275
                    > 404-731-7798
                    >
                    > _____
                    >
                    > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com]
                    On
                    > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                    > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 4:30 PM
                    > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in 16
                    > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                    > looked normal.
                    > Here's how it turned out:
                    > http://www.camelpho
                    <http://www.camelpho <http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                    tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html>
                    > tos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                    > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                    > on it some more.
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    > Roger
                    >
                    > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com,
                    > "Sacha Griffin"
                    > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Sacha Griffin
                    > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                    > > www.southern-digital.com
                    > > www.seeit360.net
                    > > www.ezphotosafe.com
                    > > 404-551-4275
                    > > 404-731-7798
                    > >
                    > > _____
                    > >
                    > > From: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com
                    > [mailto:PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com]
                    > On
                    > > Behalf Of Roger Berry
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 2:12 PM
                    > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                    yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Pano2QTR Color Loss ?
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • matt_nolan_uaf
                    Carl, I m a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two printers -- there
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                      Carl,

                      I'm a bit confused by the explanation on color spaces in the section
                      on printers. I dont see how to use that figure to compare the two
                      printers -- there is only one gray outline in each of the 3 luminance
                      figures, which printer does this represent? Or am I missing
                      something really obvious?

                      Thanks,
                      Matt


                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Roger,
                      >
                      > it always confuses me that you say that these (lovely!) animals are
                      Camels
                      > but I know them as Dromedaries, Camels have two humps. Do you want
                      to make
                      > us smoke cigarettes of a certain brand? ;-)
                      >
                      > Funny that in your pole shot several of them stare into the camera!
                      >
                      > Sacha is right about the profiles: try to keep your 16 bit files in
                      a
                      > profile that honors a wide gamut (always convert, never make
                      Photoshop
                      > simply set a profile without conversion!). Adobe RGB is a good
                      start but you
                      > might also look into ProPhoto RGB color space or ECI-RGB.
                      >
                      > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/sRGB-AdobeRGB1998.htm
                      gives a
                      > comparison between sRGB and Adobe RGB and also tells something
                      about gamut.
                      >
                      > http://www.eci.org/eci/en/ has information about the ECI-RGB color
                      space
                      > profile. eci.org also has a PDF ("Digipix3") with some very useful
                      > information available. Look for it in the downloads section. Here
                      is the
                      > direct link:
                      > http://www.eci.org/eci/downloads/ECI-
                      en/digital_photography/Digipix3_V300_EN.pdf
                      >
                      > As soon as you fixed color balance and made a 8 bit copy of your
                      working
                      > file for internet usage you should convert that 8 bit file to sRGB
                      since
                      > Browsers treat your files as sRGB. They don't convert, so we have
                      to do this
                      > step in advance.
                      >
                      > More Camels and/or Dromedaries, please! :-)
                      > Carl
                      >
                      >
                      > Roger Berry wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'm a little new to working with raw images. I was doing this in
                      16
                      > > bits, when I changed it to 8 bits and used Pano2QTVR everything
                      > > looked normal.
                      > > Here's how it turned out:
                      > > http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water.html
                      > > Although I think it can still be done better so I will be working
                      > > on it some more.
                      > > --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin" wrote:
                      > >> Profiles, my friend. Interpolators aren't color changers.
                      > >> Convert to srgb. Maybe your using adobe or prophoto.
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Pano2QTR-Color-
                      Loss---tf4020058.html#a11421008
                      > Sent from the PanoToolsNG mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
                      >
                    • Andrey Ilyin
                      Carl, There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Carl,

                        There are two kinds of camels - Dromedars (Camelus Dromedarus) and
                        Bactrians (Camelus Bactrianus).

                        http://www.ultimateungulate.com/Artiodactyla/Camelus_bactrianus.html
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dromedary


                        Andrey
                      • Roger Berry
                        I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D, Sigma 8mm F 3.5
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                          photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                          Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                          the lens.
                          Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                          looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                          I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                          through Pano2QTVR.
                          Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                          I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                          How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                          Thanks for all of the help,
                          Roger

                          Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.
                        • Sacha Griffin
                          Edit - Convert to Profile - Destination Space sRGB - Ok - Save You don t need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and you are eeking
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Edit -> Convert to Profile -> Destination Space sRGB -> Ok -> Save



                            You don't need adobe rgb unless you are going to use a hotshot printer and
                            you are eeking your last inch of quality out.

                            I don't want to hear an endless discussion on the merits of adobergb.

                            Its more annoying to save an adobergb and srbg tiff and store both copies,
                            than perhaps gain that little bit of quality out on the rare chance you're
                            going to make a big print.



                            Sacha Griffin
                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                            www.southern-digital.com
                            www.seeit360.net
                            www.ezphotosafe.com
                            404-551-4275
                            404-731-7798

                            _____

                            From: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of Roger Berry
                            Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 10:58 PM
                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: Pano2QTR Color Loss ?



                            I looked at the green and red fringing and it is happening where the
                            photos have been stitched together. These were taken with a Canon 20D,
                            Sigma 8mm F 3.5 lens and in these areas it is not close to the edge of
                            the lens.
                            Although redoing the photo I correct the aberration in CS3 and it
                            looks like there will be a lot less this time around.

                            I'm still having problems with loosing color after running them
                            through Pano2QTVR.
                            Looking at the info they are being saved TIFF, Adobe RGB (1998)
                            I even saved one as an JPG and still had the same problem.

                            How do I Convert to srgb or something that will work using CS3

                            Thanks for all of the help,
                            Roger

                            Btw there are 3 types of camels not counting the hybrids.





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Roger Berry
                            I learned a lot today and with everyone s help and finally got this pano redone. Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the camels
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 3, 2007
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                              I learned a lot today and with everyone's help and finally got this
                              pano redone.
                              Now to find an audio clip to go with it. The word they use to tell the
                              camels to drink is something like Blup-Blup. Don't know if I well be
                              able to find that audio with about 10 hours of video footage on my
                              hard drive from here.
                              http://www.camelphotos.com/india2/pushkar_water2.html

                              Thanks all,
                              Roger
                            • John Houghton
                              ... The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can easily be
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 4, 2007
                              • 0 Attachment
                                --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Carl von Einem <einem@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > always convert, never make Photoshop simply set a profile without
                                > conversion!

                                The profile assign and convert options are both there for a purpose and
                                should be used when appropriate. The profile tag in an image file can
                                easily be lost during processing by various applications. When this
                                happens and Photoshop reports the icc profile in a file as "untagged
                                rgb", then it is important to use the assign option to restore the
                                correct profile, not the convert option.

                                John
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