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Re: [PanoToolsNG] PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...

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  • Michael Asgian
    David, this is the most unusual way of thinking HDR I ever heard... :) ... From: David Palermo To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent:
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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      David, this is the most unusual way of thinking HDR I ever heard... :)



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: David Palermo <david@...>
      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:27:02 PM
      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...













      Hello all,



      I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that

      has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.



      Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot

      3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the

      rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area

      and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so

      images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need

      bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what

      I mean.



      Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a

      360°.



      Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures

      each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops



      Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1

      exposure.



      Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure



      Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure



      Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make

      3 or more exposures



      Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures



      Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures

      for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?



      I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and

      thought I'd ask the forum here.



      Thanks all!



      David



      David Palermo



      WorldVR

      http://www.worldvr com

      david@worldvr. com

      1-805-886-0146



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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    • Milko Amorth
      Hi David, ... Ptgui will stack and expect planes by exposure values. If you have bracketed a few segments only it will create blending holes (because of
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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        Hi David,

        > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
        > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?

        Ptgui will stack and expect planes by exposure values.
        If you have bracketed a few segments only it will create blending holes
        (because of missing segments) in the planes.
        You need to exposure bracket complete sets to get full blend planes or it
        will be a very ugly and unusable image.
        If you forget just one segment out of a plane set you will see a hard
        blend seem.

        Your shooting technique is best for a manual mask blend but not for HDR.
        Full planes with different exposures is what creates HDR and the tone
        mapping is applied from that to the device output.

        No shortcuts possible for true HDR, i am afraid.

        Cheers, Milko


        --
        Milko Amorth
        360° Immersive Imaging
        Photographic Virtual Reality
        VRCanada.ca
        604.561.5101

        PhotoScrapbook at Flickr.com/photos/vrdundee
        Skype me @ vrdundee
        Member of IVRPA.org
        Contributor to the World Wide Panorama Project
      • Joost Nieuwenhuijse
        Hi David, I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier autobracketing? But it will not work. See FAQ section 9:
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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          Hi David,

          I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
          autobracketing?

          But it will not work. See FAQ section 9:
          http://www.ptgui.com/support.html#9_1

          Joost


          David Palermo wrote:
          > Hello all,
          >
          > I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that
          > has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.
          >
          > Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot
          > 3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the
          > rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area
          > and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so
          > images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need
          > bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what
          > I mean.
          >
          >
          >
          > Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a
          > 360°.
          >
          > Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures
          > each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops
          >
          > Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1
          > exposure.
          >
          > Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
          >
          > Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
          >
          > Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make
          > 3 or more exposures
          >
          > Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures
          >
          >
          > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
          > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?
          >
          > I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and
          > thought I'd ask the forum here.
          >
          > Thanks all!
          >
          > David
          >
          >
          > David Palermo
          >
          > WorldVR
          > http://www.worldvr.com
          > david@...
          > 1-805-886-0146
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
        • Jakob Norstedt-Moberg
          ... I would like to give my opinion here. The reason I don t always autobracket is that I get too many images and that slows the capturing process down too
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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            --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Joost Nieuwenhuijse <imim@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Hi David,
            >
            > I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
            > autobracketing?

            I would like to give my opinion here.

            The reason I don't always autobracket is that I get too many images
            and that slows the capturing process down too much and wastes
            storage.

            Autobracketing works fine with 360x180's captured with fisheye,
            where the total number of images is limited. Cylindricals with
            normal or telephoto lens is another thing. Around the horizon I can
            have 30 images without bracketing - that makes 90 with
            autobracketing and only a few in the direction towards the sun
            really needs bracketing.

            My Kodak SLR/n will maybe handle the first set of images, but trying
            to capture 90 rapidly will choke it completely. The memory buffer is
            too small and it will freeze for many minutes when halfway and when
            it gets back to life I will only be able to take one image every 20
            seconds or so. And 60 images is about one Gigabyte of memory. Hard
            disk is cheap but I have to take care of my disks, make backups etc,
            and I don't want to waste time on images I absolutely don't need.

            So I would very much like to be able to bracket only parts of the
            pano.

            Jakob
          • Michael Asgian
            I understand your reasoning. The problem is that you wont be able to stitch properly ldrs with hdrs without having a dramatic defference in image dynamic
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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              I understand your reasoning. The problem is that you wont be able to stitch properly ldrs with hdrs without having a dramatic defference in image dynamic between the ldr and non ldr areas of the image.

              Just delete the originals after stitching and keep just the stitched pano... if space is concerning....



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Jakob Norstedt-Moberg <jakob@...>
              To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 2:02:13 AM
              Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...

              --- In PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com, Joost Nieuwenhuijse <imim@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi David,
              >
              > I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
              > autobracketing?

              I would like to give my opinion here.

              The reason I don't always autobracket is that I get too many images
              and that slows the capturing process down too much and wastes
              storage.

              Autobracketing works fine with 360x180's captured with fisheye,
              where the total number of images is limited. Cylindricals with
              normal or telephoto lens is another thing. Around the horizon I can
              have 30 images without bracketing - that makes 90 with
              autobracketing and only a few in the direction towards the sun
              really needs bracketing.

              My Kodak SLR/n will maybe handle the first set of images, but trying
              to capture 90 rapidly will choke it completely. The memory buffer is
              too small and it will freeze for many minutes when halfway and when
              it gets back to life I will only be able to take one image every 20
              seconds or so. And 60 images is about one Gigabyte of memory. Hard
              disk is cheap but I have to take care of my disks, make backups etc,
              and I don't want to waste time on images I absolutely don't need.

              So I would very much like to be able to bracket only parts of the
              pano.

              Jakob






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            • Eric O'Brien
              Even if you manually created the HDR files (from the 3 sets of 3 in your example), then tone mapped the result back down to 8- or 16- bits, I would think that
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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                Even if you manually created the HDR files (from the 3 sets of 3 in
                your example), then tone mapped the result back down to 8- or 16-
                bits, I would think that the appearance of those images would differ
                so much from the remaining ones that getting it to blend nicely could
                be quite a task in post-production. Probably far more than you might
                "save" in your proposed method.

                It would be easy to do the experiment though.

                eo

                On Jun 29, 2007, at 2:27 PM, David Palermo wrote:

                > Hello all,
                >
                > I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that
                > has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.
                >
                > Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot
                > 3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the
                > rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area
                > and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so
                > images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need
                > bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what
                > I mean.
                >
                >
                >
                > Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a
                > 360°.
                >
                > Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures
                > each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops
                >
                > Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1
                > exposure.
                >
                > Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
                >
                > Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
                >
                > Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make
                > 3 or more exposures
                >
                > Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures
                >
                >
                > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
                > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?
                >
                > I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and
                > thought I'd ask the forum here.
                >
                > Thanks all!
                >
                > David
                >
                >
                > David Palermo
                >
                > WorldVR
                > http://www.worldvr.com
                > david@...
                > 1-805-886-0146
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