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PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...

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  • David Palermo
    Hello all, I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that has HDR support. So far I like it a lot. Picture photographing a room where
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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      Hello all,

      I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that
      has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.

      Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot
      3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the
      rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area
      and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so
      images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need
      bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what
      I mean.



      Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a
      360°.

      Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures
      each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops

      Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1
      exposure.

      Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure

      Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure

      Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make
      3 or more exposures

      Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures


      Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
      for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?

      I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and
      thought I'd ask the forum here.

      Thanks all!

      David


      David Palermo

      WorldVR
      http://www.worldvr.com
      david@...
      1-805-886-0146





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Michael Asgian
      David, this is the most unusual way of thinking HDR I ever heard... :) ... From: David Palermo To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com Sent:
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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        David, this is the most unusual way of thinking HDR I ever heard... :)



        ----- Original Message ----
        From: David Palermo <david@...>
        To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 2:27:02 PM
        Subject: [PanoToolsNG] PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...













        Hello all,



        I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that

        has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.



        Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot

        3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the

        rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area

        and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so

        images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need

        bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what

        I mean.



        Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a

        360°.



        Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures

        each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops



        Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1

        exposure.



        Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure



        Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure



        Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make

        3 or more exposures



        Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures



        Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures

        for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?



        I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and

        thought I'd ask the forum here.



        Thanks all!



        David



        David Palermo



        WorldVR

        http://www.worldvr com

        david@worldvr. com

        1-805-886-0146



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]














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      • Milko Amorth
        Hi David, ... Ptgui will stack and expect planes by exposure values. If you have bracketed a few segments only it will create blending holes (because of
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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          Hi David,

          > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
          > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?

          Ptgui will stack and expect planes by exposure values.
          If you have bracketed a few segments only it will create blending holes
          (because of missing segments) in the planes.
          You need to exposure bracket complete sets to get full blend planes or it
          will be a very ugly and unusable image.
          If you forget just one segment out of a plane set you will see a hard
          blend seem.

          Your shooting technique is best for a manual mask blend but not for HDR.
          Full planes with different exposures is what creates HDR and the tone
          mapping is applied from that to the device output.

          No shortcuts possible for true HDR, i am afraid.

          Cheers, Milko


          --
          Milko Amorth
          360° Immersive Imaging
          Photographic Virtual Reality
          VRCanada.ca
          604.561.5101

          PhotoScrapbook at Flickr.com/photos/vrdundee
          Skype me @ vrdundee
          Member of IVRPA.org
          Contributor to the World Wide Panorama Project
        • Joost Nieuwenhuijse
          Hi David, I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier autobracketing? But it will not work. See FAQ section 9:
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 29, 2007
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            Hi David,

            I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
            autobracketing?

            But it will not work. See FAQ section 9:
            http://www.ptgui.com/support.html#9_1

            Joost


            David Palermo wrote:
            > Hello all,
            >
            > I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that
            > has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.
            >
            > Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot
            > 3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the
            > rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area
            > and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so
            > images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need
            > bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what
            > I mean.
            >
            >
            >
            > Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a
            > 360°.
            >
            > Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures
            > each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops
            >
            > Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1
            > exposure.
            >
            > Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
            >
            > Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
            >
            > Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make
            > 3 or more exposures
            >
            > Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures
            >
            >
            > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
            > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?
            >
            > I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and
            > thought I'd ask the forum here.
            >
            > Thanks all!
            >
            > David
            >
            >
            > David Palermo
            >
            > WorldVR
            > http://www.worldvr.com
            > david@...
            > 1-805-886-0146
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >
          • Jakob Norstedt-Moberg
            ... I would like to give my opinion here. The reason I don t always autobracket is that I get too many images and that slows the capturing process down too
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, Joost Nieuwenhuijse <imim@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi David,
              >
              > I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
              > autobracketing?

              I would like to give my opinion here.

              The reason I don't always autobracket is that I get too many images
              and that slows the capturing process down too much and wastes
              storage.

              Autobracketing works fine with 360x180's captured with fisheye,
              where the total number of images is limited. Cylindricals with
              normal or telephoto lens is another thing. Around the horizon I can
              have 30 images without bracketing - that makes 90 with
              autobracketing and only a few in the direction towards the sun
              really needs bracketing.

              My Kodak SLR/n will maybe handle the first set of images, but trying
              to capture 90 rapidly will choke it completely. The memory buffer is
              too small and it will freeze for many minutes when halfway and when
              it gets back to life I will only be able to take one image every 20
              seconds or so. And 60 images is about one Gigabyte of memory. Hard
              disk is cheap but I have to take care of my disks, make backups etc,
              and I don't want to waste time on images I absolutely don't need.

              So I would very much like to be able to bracket only parts of the
              pano.

              Jakob
            • Michael Asgian
              I understand your reasoning. The problem is that you wont be able to stitch properly ldrs with hdrs without having a dramatic defference in image dynamic
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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                I understand your reasoning. The problem is that you wont be able to stitch properly ldrs with hdrs without having a dramatic defference in image dynamic between the ldr and non ldr areas of the image.

                Just delete the originals after stitching and keep just the stitched pano... if space is concerning....



                ----- Original Message ----
                From: Jakob Norstedt-Moberg <jakob@...>
                To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2007 2:02:13 AM
                Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: PTGui and HDR and uneven number of shots in 360...

                --- In PanoToolsNG@ yahoogroups. com, Joost Nieuwenhuijse <imim@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi David,
                >
                > I wonder why you would want to do this instead of much easier
                > autobracketing?

                I would like to give my opinion here.

                The reason I don't always autobracket is that I get too many images
                and that slows the capturing process down too much and wastes
                storage.

                Autobracketing works fine with 360x180's captured with fisheye,
                where the total number of images is limited. Cylindricals with
                normal or telephoto lens is another thing. Around the horizon I can
                have 30 images without bracketing - that makes 90 with
                autobracketing and only a few in the direction towards the sun
                really needs bracketing.

                My Kodak SLR/n will maybe handle the first set of images, but trying
                to capture 90 rapidly will choke it completely. The memory buffer is
                too small and it will freeze for many minutes when halfway and when
                it gets back to life I will only be able to take one image every 20
                seconds or so. And 60 images is about one Gigabyte of memory. Hard
                disk is cheap but I have to take care of my disks, make backups etc,
                and I don't want to waste time on images I absolutely don't need.

                So I would very much like to be able to bracket only parts of the
                pano.

                Jakob






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              • Eric O'Brien
                Even if you manually created the HDR files (from the 3 sets of 3 in your example), then tone mapped the result back down to 8- or 16- bits, I would think that
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 30, 2007
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                  Even if you manually created the HDR files (from the 3 sets of 3 in
                  your example), then tone mapped the result back down to 8- or 16-
                  bits, I would think that the appearance of those images would differ
                  so much from the remaining ones that getting it to blend nicely could
                  be quite a task in post-production. Probably far more than you might
                  "save" in your proposed method.

                  It would be easy to do the experiment though.

                  eo

                  On Jun 29, 2007, at 2:27 PM, David Palermo wrote:

                  > Hello all,
                  >
                  > I am a very happy PTGui user and have upgraded to the new beta that
                  > has HDR support. So far I like it a lot.
                  >
                  > Picture photographing a room where there is a bright window. I shoot
                  > 3 or more images to tone down the window and 1 or 2 images for the
                  > rest of the scene. Can PTGui HDR know I shot 3 images for one area
                  > and say, 1 image for the other. Will it then combine those 3 or so
                  > images into one HDR image and stitch the ones that don't need
                  > bracketing normally? Hard to explain but I hope you understand what
                  > I mean.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Example: Let's say I have a lens that requires 6 shots around for a
                  > 360°.
                  >
                  > Shot 1- I shoot at a bright window so I take 3 or more exposures
                  > each getting darker by 1 or 3 stops
                  >
                  > Shot 2 - I shoot at a dark area of the room and only need to take 1
                  > exposure.
                  >
                  > Shot 3 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
                  >
                  > Shot 4 - (same as 2) - 1 exposure
                  >
                  > Shot 5 - I shoot the other edge of the window and again need to make
                  > 3 or more exposures
                  >
                  > Shot 6 - middle of the window and I shoot 3 or more exposures
                  >
                  >
                  > Now, will PTGui "know" that I need to combine the multiple exposures
                  > for HDR (in shots 1, 5, and 6)?
                  >
                  > I can test this when I get home but I am traveling right now and
                  > thought I'd ask the forum here.
                  >
                  > Thanks all!
                  >
                  > David
                  >
                  >
                  > David Palermo
                  >
                  > WorldVR
                  > http://www.worldvr.com
                  > david@...
                  > 1-805-886-0146
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