Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

How would you do exposure bracketing for a 360 panorama?

Expand Messages
  • Andrew G
    I use the Nikon CP8400 and FC E9 Fisheye (Soon to be replaced with the D80 and 10.5mm but will still probably have the same problem). Faced with an awquard
    Message 1 of 24 , Jun 22 4:33 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      I use the Nikon CP8400 and FC E9 Fisheye
      (Soon to be replaced with the D80 and 10.5mm but will still probably
      have the same problem).

      Faced with an awquard location such as a restaurant with plenty of
      windows and plenty of light coming in, I would normally take 6
      horizontal images with the shutter speed at approx 1/4 - 1/8 and F4.9
      and then go round again taking another 6 images with a higher speed
      of approx 1/30 - 1/60 and F4.9. This is obviously no good for moving
      objects.

      I then stitch one set in PTGui and then use that file as a template
      for the other 6 images with a higher shutter speed.

      Send both psd files over to Photoshop, convert to tif. One has semi
      blown out windows but well lit room, other has see through windows
      but dark room.

      I put the dark room image on a layer above the light one, mask it out
      and then slowly reveal the window areas over the semi blown out one
      underneath.

      The results look good, nicly lit room and windows you can look
      through but it is so time consuming.

      I've also tried the method described at the following link but the
      result looks too unrealistc and almost grey in colour.

      http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml

      I can't use the Exposure bracketing feature on the camera as it
      doesn't work in manual mode

      Perhaps some of you have a less time consuming method that you use?
      Would love to hear some advice if you have the time.

      Thanks

      Andrew
    • Eric O'Brien
      It is possible that you are overreaching the technical limits of your camera/system. If you re this ambitious about the quality of the result, saving up enough
      Message 2 of 24 , Jun 22 10:18 PM
      • 0 Attachment
        It is possible that you are overreaching the technical limits of your
        camera/system.

        If you're this ambitious about the quality of the result, saving up
        enough money to buy a camera that would support you could be a good
        idea! :)

        On Jun 22, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Andrew G wrote:

        > I use the Nikon CP8400 and FC E9 Fisheye
        > (Soon to be replaced with the D80 and 10.5mm but will still probably
        > have the same problem).

        You mention a number of "problems." One you should NOT have to worry
        about: [no personal experience here, but] I feel pretty confident
        that the D80 CAN bracket in manual mode.

        >
        > Faced with an awquard location such as a restaurant with plenty of
        > windows and plenty of light coming in, I would normally take 6
        > horizontal images with the shutter speed at approx 1/4 - 1/8 and F4.9
        > and then go round again taking another 6 images with a higher speed
        > of approx 1/30 - 1/60 and F4.9. This is obviously no good for moving
        > objects.

        It is VASTLY preferably to make all three (or whatever number) of
        exposures with the pano head at a SINGLE orientation. That is, do
        NOT take three turns, where each turn has a different exposure.
        Instead, make "three" bracketed exposures at EACH pano head orientation.

        >
        > I then stitch one set in PTGui and then use that file as a template
        > for the other 6 images with a higher shutter speed.
        >
        > Send both psd files over to Photoshop, convert to tif. One has semi
        > blown out windows but well lit room, other has see through windows
        > but dark room.
        >
        > I put the dark room image on a layer above the light one, mask it out
        > and then slowly reveal the window areas over the semi blown out one
        > underneath.

        If you are already using PTGui, I suggest you try the beta 7 "Pro"
        version, which has tone mapper built in.

        >
        > The results look good, nicly lit room and windows you can look
        > through but it is so time consuming.
        >
        > I've also tried the method described at the following link but the
        > result looks too unrealistc and almost grey in colour.
        >
        > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml
        >
        > I can't use the Exposure bracketing feature on the camera as it
        > doesn't work in manual mode

        New camera should fix that.

        >
        > Perhaps some of you have a less time consuming method that you use?

        Heh. It seems that regardless of how much faster my computer is, or
        how much I (try to) refine my workflow, "TIME CONSUMING" is the
        operative phrase!

        > Would love to hear some advice if you have the time.
        >
        > Thanks
        >
        > Andrew
        >
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • - AYRTON - (avi)
        ... For sure, YES it can !!! ... BUT the CP8400 also he can brackt as much as he wants to !!!! Why not ? Just leave camera in Manual and do three or more
        Message 3 of 24 , Jun 22 10:37 PM
        • 0 Attachment
          On 23/06/2007, at 02:18, Eric O'Brien wrote:

          > It is possible that you are overreaching the technical limits of your
          > camera/system.
          >
          > If you're this ambitious about the quality of the result, saving up
          > enough money to buy a camera that would support you could be a good
          > idea! :)
          >
          > On Jun 22, 2007, at 4:33 PM, Andrew G wrote:
          >
          >> I use the Nikon CP8400 and FC E9 Fisheye
          >> (Soon to be replaced with the D80 and 10.5mm but will still probably
          >> have the same problem).
          >
          > You mention a number of "problems." One you should NOT have to worry
          > about: [no personal experience here, but] I feel pretty confident
          > that the D80 CAN bracket in manual mode.

          For sure, YES it can !!!


          >
          >>
          >> Faced with an awquard location such as a restaurant with plenty of
          >> windows and plenty of light coming in, I would normally take 6
          >> horizontal images with the shutter speed at approx 1/4 - 1/8 and F4.9
          >> and then go round again taking another 6 images with a higher speed
          >> of approx 1/30 - 1/60 and F4.9. This is obviously no good for moving
          >> objects.
          >
          > It is VASTLY preferably to make all three (or whatever number) of
          > exposures with the pano head at a SINGLE orientation. That is, do
          > NOT take three turns, where each turn has a different exposure.
          > Instead, make "three" bracketed exposures at EACH pano head
          > orientation.
          >
          >>
          >> I then stitch one set in PTGui and then use that file as a template
          >> for the other 6 images with a higher shutter speed.
          >>
          >> Send both psd files over to Photoshop, convert to tif. One has semi
          >> blown out windows but well lit room, other has see through windows
          >> but dark room.
          >>
          >> I put the dark room image on a layer above the light one, mask it out
          >> and then slowly reveal the window areas over the semi blown out one
          >> underneath.
          >
          > If you are already using PTGui, I suggest you try the beta 7 "Pro"
          > version, which has tone mapper built in.
          >
          >>
          >> The results look good, nicly lit room and windows you can look
          >> through but it is so time consuming.
          >>
          >> I've also tried the method described at the following link but the
          >> result looks too unrealistc and almost grey in colour.
          >>
          >> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml
          >>
          >> I can't use the Exposure bracketing feature on the camera as it
          >> doesn't work in manual mode
          >
          > New camera should fix that.

          BUT the CP8400 also he can brackt as much as he wants to !!!! Why not ?
          Just leave camera in Manual and do three or more exposures at every
          position ...

          >
          >>
          >> Perhaps some of you have a less time consuming method that you use?
          >
          > Heh. It seems that regardless of how much faster my computer is, or
          > how much I (try to) refine my workflow, "TIME CONSUMING" is the
          > operative phrase!
          >
          >> Would love to hear some advice if you have the time.
          >>
          >> Thanks
          >>
          >> Andrew
          >>
        • Alan Pinstein
          ... Heh yeah that s exactly what I am working on. The new PTGui Pro beta has HDR stitching support. We ve been playing with it and it s quite nice. You have to
          Message 4 of 24 , Jun 23 1:35 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            > Perhaps some of you have a less time consuming method that you use?
            > Would love to hear some advice if you have the time.

            Heh yeah that's exactly what I am working on. The new PTGui Pro beta
            has HDR stitching support. We've been playing with it and it's quite
            nice.

            You have to take a lot more pictures (depending on the real dynamic
            range of the scene, from 3-6 bracketed sets), but there is FAR less
            post-processing. We are presently doing the exact procedure you
            describe and seeking a better alternative.

            We aren't 100% to a workable outcome yet, but getting there. The
            hardest part seems to be getting a reasonable output from the
            tonemapping process. There are a lot of output options and it's
            sometimes tough getting something that looks natural.

            Alan

            On Jun 22, 2007, at 7:33 PM, Andrew G wrote:

            > I use the Nikon CP8400 and FC E9 Fisheye
            > (Soon to be replaced with the D80 and 10.5mm but will still probably
            > have the same problem).
            >
            > Faced with an awquard location such as a restaurant with plenty of
            > windows and plenty of light coming in, I would normally take 6
            > horizontal images with the shutter speed at approx 1/4 - 1/8 and F4.9
            > and then go round again taking another 6 images with a higher speed
            > of approx 1/30 - 1/60 and F4.9. This is obviously no good for moving
            > objects.
            >
            > I then stitch one set in PTGui and then use that file as a template
            > for the other 6 images with a higher shutter speed.
            >
            > Send both psd files over to Photoshop, convert to tif. One has semi
            > blown out windows but well lit room, other has see through windows
            > but dark room.
            >
            > I put the dark room image on a layer above the light one, mask it out
            > and then slowly reveal the window areas over the semi blown out one
            > underneath.
            >
            > The results look good, nicly lit room and windows you can look
            > through but it is so time consuming.
            >
            > I've also tried the method described at the following link but the
            > result looks too unrealistc and almost grey in colour.
            >
            > http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/digital-blending.shtml
            >
            > I can't use the Exposure bracketing feature on the camera as it
            > doesn't work in manual mode
            >
            > Perhaps some of you have a less time consuming method that you use?
            > Would love to hear some advice if you have the time.
            >
            > Thanks
            >
            > Andrew
            >
            >
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andrew G
            Thanks very much for the info. The process I was using just seemed a bit on the long winded side and I thought I was missing out on a easier method. I will be
            Message 5 of 24 , Jun 24 6:14 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks very much for the info.

              The process I was using just seemed a bit on the long winded side and I
              thought I was missing out on a easier method.

              I will be taking 4 panoramas inside a similar restaurant this coming
              tuesday with the CP8400 that will require bracketing. I'll set the
              quality to JPEG & manual and try out the method mentioned with 3
              different speed settings at each position. Perhaps feed them into the
              Photomatrix program after. I tried Photomatrix before but the results
              didn't look believable at all.

              Andrew
            • - AYRTON - (avi)
              ... Andrew, WHY you ll use JPGs ???? Doesn t the CP8400 have RAW option ? [ ]s Ayrton ... I M A G E M A K E R It s not WHAT you shoot. It s the WAY you shoot
              Message 6 of 24 , Jun 24 6:45 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                On 24/06/2007, at 10:14, Andrew G wrote:

                > Thanks very much for the info.
                >
                > The process I was using just seemed a bit on the long winded side
                > and I
                > thought I was missing out on a easier method.
                >
                > I will be taking 4 panoramas inside a similar restaurant this coming
                > tuesday with the CP8400 that will require bracketing. I'll set the
                > quality to JPEG & manual and try out the method mentioned with 3
                > different speed settings at each position.

                Andrew, WHY you'll use JPGs ????
                Doesn't the CP8400 have RAW option ?

                [ ]s
                Ayrton


                > Perhaps feed them into the
                > Photomatrix program after. I tried Photomatrix before but the results
                > didn't look believable at all.
                >
                > Andrew




                ----------


                I M A G E M A K E R

                "It's not WHAT you shoot. It's the WAY you shoot"
                -----------------------------------------------------------------------

                www.ayrton.com
                www.rio360.com.br
                www.vrfolio.com
                www.vr-images.com




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Andrew G
                Hi Ayrton, I was thinking of using HI jpeg to cut down on my work load as now I will have 3 different sets of 6 images for each panorama. If I use raw, I
                Message 7 of 24 , Jun 24 8:10 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Ayrton,

                  I was thinking of using 'HI' jpeg to cut down on my work load as now
                  I will have 3 different sets of 6 images for each panorama. If I use
                  raw, I have to set the options in photoshop for each imported raw
                  file. Not to mention the amount of time it takes for the CP8400 to
                  write each RAW image to the card while I'm taking the pictures. I
                  have a couple of fast cards and both are the same. I'd be there all
                  day with 18 raw images

                  I'm trying to work out a reasonable balance for making these
                  bracketed panoramas.

                  That was my theory anyway!

                  Andrew





                  --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "- AYRTON - (avi)" <avi@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > On 24/06/2007, at 10:14, Andrew G wrote:
                  >
                  > > Thanks very much for the info.
                  > >
                  > > The process I was using just seemed a bit on the long winded
                  side
                  > > and I
                  > > thought I was missing out on a easier method.
                  > >
                  > > I will be taking 4 panoramas inside a similar restaurant this
                  coming
                  > > tuesday with the CP8400 that will require bracketing. I'll set the
                  > > quality to JPEG & manual and try out the method mentioned with 3
                  > > different speed settings at each position.
                  >
                  > Andrew, WHY you'll use JPGs ????
                  > Doesn't the CP8400 have RAW option ?
                  >
                  > [ ]s
                  > Ayrton
                  >
                  >
                  > > Perhaps feed them into the
                  > > Photomatrix program after. I tried Photomatrix before but the
                  results
                  > > didn't look believable at all.
                  > >
                  > > Andrew
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ----------
                  >
                  >
                  > I M A G E M A K E R
                  >
                  > "It's not WHAT you shoot. It's the WAY you shoot"
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  ---
                  >
                  > www.ayrton.com
                  > www.rio360.com.br
                  > www.vrfolio.com
                  > www.vr-images.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • Robert C. Fisher
                  Hi Andrew My RAW workflow only takes a few minutes longer than using JPEGs. I just correct one image then apply the settings to all the images in the set,
                  Message 8 of 24 , Jun 24 9:25 AM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Hi Andrew
                    My RAW workflow only takes a few minutes longer than using JPEGs. I
                    just correct one image then apply the settings to all the images in
                    the set, including the over and under exposures. I have an action in
                    PS that automates the open and saving of the tiffs into the proper
                    folder then have a cup of coffee while it works and then get to work
                    on the stitching.

                    Learn to use the batch function and how to write actions in Photoshop
                    because this will help your workflow immensely.

                    On Jun 24, 2007, at 8:10 AM, Andrew G wrote:

                    > Hi Ayrton,
                    >
                    > I was thinking of using 'HI' jpeg to cut down on my work load as now
                    > I will have 3 different sets of 6 images for each panorama. If I use
                    > raw, I have to set the options in photoshop for each imported raw
                    > file. Not to mention the amount of time it takes for the CP8400 to
                    > write each RAW image to the card while I'm taking the pictures. I
                    > have a couple of fast cards and both are the same. I'd be there all
                    > day with 18 raw images
                    >
                    > I'm trying to work out a reasonable balance for making these
                    > bracketed panoramas.
                    >
                    > That was my theory anyway!
                    >
                    > Andrew
                    >

                    Cheers
                    Robert C. Fisher
                    VR Photography/Cinematography
                  • John Houghton
                    ... Robert, that s true, but perhaps the process you described is adequately performed by Photoshop s Image Processor script. No need to create an action if
                    Message 9 of 24 , Jun 24 10:24 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Learn to use the batch function and how to write actions in
                      > Photoshop because this will help your workflow immensely.

                      Robert, that's true, but perhaps the process you described is
                      adequately performed by Photoshop's Image Processor script. No need to
                      create an action if you have at least CS.

                      John
                    • Andrew G
                      Hi Robert, After you ve made the matching adjustments to the first regular set of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two exposure sets? I
                      Message 10 of 24 , Jun 24 10:51 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi Robert,

                        After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                        of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                        exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own settings?

                        I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                        droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to go. I
                        also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.

                        Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.

                        Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does the
                        rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be perfect
                        if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.

                        Definitely a good start though to saving time.

                        Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around with
                        JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                        files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well put up
                        with it for now.

                        Thanks

                        Andrew





                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Robert C. Fisher" <bob@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Andrew
                        > My RAW workflow only takes a few minutes longer than using JPEGs.
                        I
                        > just correct one image then apply the settings to all the images
                        in
                        > the set, including the over and under exposures. I have an action
                        in
                        > PS that automates the open and saving of the tiffs into the proper
                        > folder then have a cup of coffee while it works and then get to
                        work
                        > on the stitching.
                        >
                        > Learn to use the batch function and how to write actions in
                        Photoshop
                        > because this will help your workflow immensely.
                        >
                        > On Jun 24, 2007, at 8:10 AM, Andrew G wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hi Ayrton,
                        > >
                        > > I was thinking of using 'HI' jpeg to cut down on my work load as
                        now
                        > > I will have 3 different sets of 6 images for each panorama. If I
                        use
                        > > raw, I have to set the options in photoshop for each imported raw
                        > > file. Not to mention the amount of time it takes for the CP8400 to
                        > > write each RAW image to the card while I'm taking the pictures. I
                        > > have a couple of fast cards and both are the same. I'd be there
                        all
                        > > day with 18 raw images
                        > >
                        > > I'm trying to work out a reasonable balance for making these
                        > > bracketed panoramas.
                        > >
                        > > That was my theory anyway!
                        > >
                        > > Andrew
                        > >
                        >
                        > Cheers
                        > Robert C. Fisher
                        > VR Photography/Cinematography
                        >
                      • Robert C. Fisher
                        ... Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust and apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including the over/under
                        Message 11 of 24 , Jun 24 11:39 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On Jun 24, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Andrew G wrote:

                          > Hi Robert,
                          >
                          > After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                          > of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                          > exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own settings?
                          Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust and
                          apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including the
                          over/under images go to tools>apply camera raw settings>previous
                          conversion. If you are using bracketed images from a camera that
                          produces them this will work well since the images were exposed with
                          the proper over/under exposures. This will apply the same settings to
                          the images selected. You want all the images to have the same
                          settings/exposure so it doesn't change and screw up the blending later.
                          >
                          > I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                          > droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to go. I
                          > also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                          >
                          > Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                          Also learn how to make actions since they are really easy to do and
                          can save huge time. I just made an action that did in 2 minutes what
                          would have take over an hour to do by hand to 36 images. When you use
                          the action with the batch function then you can specify different
                          destination folders for the image sets.
                          >
                          > Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does the
                          > rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be perfect
                          > if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                          >
                          > Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                          >
                          > Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around with
                          > JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                          > files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well put up
                          > with it for now.
                          >
                          > Thanks
                          >
                          > Andrew
                          >


                          Cheers
                          Robert C. Fisher
                          VR Photography/Cinematography
                        • Rodolpho Pajuaba
                          If you learn to use Lightroom the process will be even faster; beside all the bells and whistles of ACR 4.0, you are able to export the files in many different
                          Message 12 of 24 , Jun 24 7:59 PM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            If you learn to use Lightroom the process will be even faster; beside
                            all the bells and whistles of ACR 4.0, you are able to export the files
                            in many different sizes in a snap. This way you can adjust the pano(s)
                            with small files and then apply the script on the big ones.
                            Regards,
                            Rodolpho Pajuaba

                            Andrew G wrote:
                            > Hi Robert,
                            >
                            > After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                            > of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                            > exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own settings?
                            >
                            > I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                            > droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to go. I
                            > also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                            >
                            > Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                            >
                            > Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does the
                            > rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be perfect
                            > if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                            >
                            > Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                            >
                            > Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around with
                            > JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                            > files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well put up
                            > with it for now.
                            >
                            > Thanks
                            >
                            > Andrew
                            >
                          • Eric O'Brien
                            If you are shooting bracketed shots, in raw, for later conversion to hdr I believe that you should treat the conversion process in a similar manner to the
                            Message 13 of 24 , Jun 25 12:16 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              If you are shooting bracketed shots, in raw, for later conversion to
                              hdr I believe that you should treat the conversion process in a
                              similar manner to the original shoot.

                              Here, we are creating INTERMEDIATE files that will be the starting
                              material for the next step (merging to hdr). In the raw converter,
                              make sure all "automatic" settings are disabled (and do NOT click
                              "Auto!"). Make sure all settings are 'zeroed' or 'neutral' (whatever
                              that may mean for each settting). I'm undecided about what the
                              "right" settings are for Brightness and Contrast -- I'm not sure that
                              zero is the right setting for these.

                              The goal is not to produce images that *individually* look the best,
                              but to produce images that will be the best *source material) for the
                              conversion to hdr.

                              I would be hesitant to change ANY settings other than white balance
                              (then apply that same change to ALL images) and Lens Correction. If
                              you must adjust "exposure," the same rule applies: change ALL images
                              by the same amount.

                              Before doing a conversion, check/change these things:

                              In the the Camera Raw preferences, set Apply sharpening to "Preview
                              images only." Turn OFF "Apply auto tone adjustments."

                              Under the Tone Curve settings, make sure "Linear" is selected.

                              Under "Detail," my guess is that noise reduction will not hurt.

                              If you are shooting with a fisheye lens (or, probably, any wide angle
                              lens) you probably want to use the Lens Correction tab. Make sure to
                              apply any change to ALL images.


                              Take similar precautions when using Lightroom. Remember that at the
                              time you import images, you can select which Preset (Called "Develop
                              Settings" in the Import dialog) to apply to the images that are
                              imported. It can be useful to create a "for panoramas" Preset that
                              has all settings neutralized and "Lens Corrections" preset for
                              whatever lens you use.

                              eo



                              On Jun 24, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Robert C. Fisher wrote:

                              >
                              > On Jun 24, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Andrew G wrote:
                              >
                              >> Hi Robert,
                              >>
                              >> After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                              >> of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                              >> exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own settings?
                              > Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust and
                              > apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including the
                              > over/under images go to tools>apply camera raw settings>previous
                              > conversion. If you are using bracketed images from a camera that
                              > produces them this will work well since the images were exposed with
                              > the proper over/under exposures. This will apply the same settings to
                              > the images selected. You want all the images to have the same
                              > settings/exposure so it doesn't change and screw up the blending
                              > later.
                              >>
                              >> I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                              >> droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to go. I
                              >> also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                              >>
                              >> Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                              > Also learn how to make actions since they are really easy to do and
                              > can save huge time. I just made an action that did in 2 minutes what
                              > would have take over an hour to do by hand to 36 images. When you use
                              > the action with the batch function then you can specify different
                              > destination folders for the image sets.
                              >>
                              >> Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does the
                              >> rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be perfect
                              >> if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                              >>
                              >> Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                              >>
                              >> Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around with
                              >> JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                              >> files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well put up
                              >> with it for now.
                              >>
                              >> Thanks
                              >>
                              >> Andrew
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              > Cheers
                              > Robert C. Fisher
                              > VR Photography/Cinematography
                            • - AYRTON - (avi)
                              ... Well I adjust these according with the *kind* of the image ... sometimes more, sometimes less ... ... Why is that ??? ... Why that too ??? ... Again; why ?
                              Message 14 of 24 , Jun 25 12:30 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                On 25/06/2007, at 16:16, Eric O'Brien wrote:

                                > ... I'm undecided about what the
                                > "right" settings are for Brightness and Contrast -- I'm not sure that
                                > zero is the right setting for these.

                                Well I adjust these according with the *kind* of the image ...
                                sometimes more, sometimes less ...

                                > I would be hesitant to change ANY settings other than white balance

                                Why is that ???

                                > (then apply that same change to ALL images) and Lens Correction. If
                                > you must adjust "exposure," the same rule applies: change ALL images
                                > by the same amount.
                                > Before doing a conversion, check/change these things:
                                > In the the Camera Raw preferences, set Apply sharpening to "Preview
                                > images only."

                                Why that too ???

                                > Turn OFF "Apply auto tone adjustments."
                                > Under the Tone Curve settings, make sure "Linear" is selected.

                                Again; why ? I eman, for different kind of subjects, I choose a
                                different stting ... sometimes more contrast, other times much less.
                                But for sure I apply to ALL images.

                                > Take similar precautions when using Lightroom. Remember that at the
                                > time you import images, you can select which Preset (Called "Develop
                                > Settings" in the Import dialog) to apply to the images that are
                                > imported. It can be useful to create a "for panoramas" Preset that
                                > has all settings neutralized and "Lens Corrections" preset for
                                > whatever lens you use.

                                good idea :-)

                                Thanks
                                AYRTON

                                >
                                > eo
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > On Jun 24, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Robert C. Fisher wrote:
                                >
                                >>
                                >> On Jun 24, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Andrew G wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> Hi Robert,
                                >>>
                                >>> After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                                >>> of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                                >>> exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own settings?
                                >> Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust and
                                >> apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including the
                                >> over/under images go to tools>apply camera raw settings>previous
                                >> conversion. If you are using bracketed images from a camera that
                                >> produces them this will work well since the images were exposed with
                                >> the proper over/under exposures. This will apply the same settings to
                                >> the images selected. You want all the images to have the same
                                >> settings/exposure so it doesn't change and screw up the blending
                                >> later.
                                >>>
                                >>> I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                                >>> droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to
                                >>> go. I
                                >>> also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                                >>>
                                >>> Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                                >> Also learn how to make actions since they are really easy to do and
                                >> can save huge time. I just made an action that did in 2 minutes what
                                >> would have take over an hour to do by hand to 36 images. When you use
                                >> the action with the batch function then you can specify different
                                >> destination folders for the image sets.
                                >>>
                                >>> Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does the
                                >>> rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be perfect
                                >>> if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                                >>>
                                >>> Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                                >>>
                                >>> Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around with
                                >>> JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                                >>> files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well put up
                                >>> with it for now.
                                >>>
                                >>> Thanks
                                >>>
                                >>> Andrew
                                >>>
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Cheers
                                >> Robert C. Fisher
                                >> VR Photography/Cinematography
                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Eric O'Brien
                                ... As I have said (or, perhaps, am about to say)... I think that the conversion of raw is not the appropriate point in the workflow to change these things.
                                Message 15 of 24 , Jun 25 10:50 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  On Jun 25, 2007, at 12:30 PM, - AYRTON - (avi) wrote:

                                  > On 25/06/2007, at 16:16, Eric O'Brien wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> ... I'm undecided about what the
                                  >> "right" settings are for Brightness and Contrast -- I'm not sure that
                                  >> zero is the right setting for these.
                                  >
                                  > Well I adjust these according with the *kind* of the image ...
                                  > sometimes more, sometimes less ...

                                  As I have said (or, perhaps, am about to say)... I think that the
                                  conversion of raw is not the appropriate point in the workflow to
                                  change these things.

                                  >> I would be hesitant to change ANY settings other than white balance
                                  >
                                  > Why is that ???

                                  Here's my thinking:

                                  My comments assume that we are talking about bracketed sets of images
                                  whose only purpose is to act as INPUT MATERIAL for conversion to
                                  HDR. Based on that, the conversion from raw files is NOT the
                                  appropriate place in the workflow to "fine tune" the appearance of
                                  the images.

                                  SO, the thing to do here -- it seems to me -- is to produce data
                                  files (images) that are the LEAST manipulated as possible. The place
                                  in the workflow to change contrast or brightness is at the TONE
                                  MAPPING stage (or after), not earlier. The same for almost all other
                                  settings. [No, I have not analytically tested my assumption.
                                  However, if it is true, making these modifications at as close to the
                                  final stage as possible could save a LOT of effort!]

                                  >> (then apply that same change to ALL images) and Lens Correction. If
                                  >> you must adjust "exposure," the same rule applies: change ALL images
                                  >> by the same amount.
                                  >> Before doing a conversion, check/change these things:
                                  >> In the the Camera Raw preferences, set Apply sharpening to "Preview
                                  >> images only."
                                  >
                                  > Why that too ???

                                  The general consensus (and I mostly agree) seems to be that the
                                  appropriate stage in the workflow to apply sharpening is AT or NEAR
                                  the end. Therefore, I suggest NOT sharpening during raw conversion.
                                  (Although it might be that a *small* amount of "capture sharpening"
                                  could be appropriate. I simply haven't done comparative tests.)

                                  In this workflow (bracketed exposures -> merge to HDR -> Tone Map),
                                  the appropriate point to apply sharpening would be on the tone mapped
                                  result.

                                  >> Turn OFF "Apply auto tone adjustments."
                                  >> Under the Tone Curve settings, make sure "Linear" is selected.
                                  >
                                  > Again; why ? I eman, for different kind of subjects, I choose a
                                  > different stting ... sometimes more contrast, other times much less.
                                  > But for sure I apply to ALL images.

                                  [I feel VERY certain that we want to disable "Apply auto tone
                                  adjustments." -- when on, this will automatically modify EACH IMAGE
                                  INDIVIDUALLY. We certainly do not want to do that!]


                                  Just to be clear: I refer to the situation where we are converting a
                                  bracketed set of raw images for the purpose of eventually converting
                                  to HDR, then Tone Mapping.


                                  If that is the case, the *appropriate* point in the workflow to
                                  modify the contrast/curve/saturation/vibrance ... whatEVER... would
                                  be either *during* Tone Mapping (if possible) or afterwards, on the
                                  Tone Mapped result. It would *not* be appropriate to modify the
                                  contrast (or whatever) of the source files to be input into the
                                  conversion process.

                                  As for Curve settings, consider:

                                  For a *single* exposure, we may well want an "S" shaped curve
                                  ("Medium Contrast"). This is the shape of the response of
                                  traditional materials: lower contrast in the "shadow" and
                                  "highlight" areas.

                                  But if the file we are working with is an intermediate step, not the
                                  final output, what will meddling with the output Curve result in?

                                  A strange "wiggle," across the composite "exposure," it would seem to
                                  me.

                                  I LIKE the "S" curve; I SUPPORT the "S" curve. But the place to
                                  apply it, it seems to me, is against the final, Tone Mapped, result,
                                  not upon each individual image. The same argument applies to any of
                                  the other settings: the appropriate point in the workflow to make
                                  such changes is AFTER merging to HDR.


                                  Disclaimer: I have not actually done any analytical comparative
                                  testing that prove or disprove my assumptions. However, if my
                                  assumptions ARE "correct," a LARGE amount of pointless (and perhaps
                                  damaging) effort can be avoided:

                                  Convert all raw files using "neutral" or "linear" settings (except
                                  for color temperature);

                                  Convert the results to HDR files;

                                  Tone Map the results.

                                  On the Tone Mapped results (or during the Tone Mapping process, if
                                  possible) --

                                  THEN apply the bulk of any "tuning" desired (curve shape, etc.)


                                  eo

                                  >
                                  >> Take similar precautions when using Lightroom. Remember that at the
                                  >> time you import images, you can select which Preset (Called "Develop
                                  >> Settings" in the Import dialog) to apply to the images that are
                                  >> imported. It can be useful to create a "for panoramas" Preset that
                                  >> has all settings neutralized and "Lens Corrections" preset for
                                  >> whatever lens you use.
                                  >
                                  > good idea :-)
                                  >
                                  > Thanks
                                  > AYRTON
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> eo
                                  >>
                                  >> On Jun 24, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Robert C. Fisher wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> On Jun 24, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Andrew G wrote:
                                  >>>
                                  >>>> Hi Robert,
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular set
                                  >>>> of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                                  >>>> exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own
                                  >>>> settings?
                                  >>> Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust and
                                  >>> apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including
                                  >>> the
                                  >>> over/under images go to tools>apply camera raw settings>previous
                                  >>> conversion. If you are using bracketed images from a camera that
                                  >>> produces them this will work well since the images were exposed with
                                  >>> the proper over/under exposures. This will apply the same
                                  >>> settings to
                                  >>> the images selected. You want all the images to have the same
                                  >>> settings/exposure so it doesn't change and screw up the blending
                                  >>> later.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                                  >>>> droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to
                                  >>>> go. I
                                  >>>> also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                                  >>> Also learn how to make actions since they are really easy to do and
                                  >>> can save huge time. I just made an action that did in 2 minutes what
                                  >>> would have take over an hour to do by hand to 36 images. When you
                                  >>> use
                                  >>> the action with the batch function then you can specify different
                                  >>> destination folders for the image sets.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does
                                  >>>> the
                                  >>>> rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be
                                  >>>> perfect
                                  >>>> if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around
                                  >>>> with
                                  >>>> JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the RAW
                                  >>>> files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well
                                  >>>> put up
                                  >>>> with it for now.
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Thanks
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>> Andrew
                                  >>>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>>
                                  >>> Cheers
                                  >>> Robert C. Fisher
                                  >>> VR Photography/Cinematography
                                  >>
                                • Andrew G
                                  Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be practising quite a bit until i get it right! I ve come across a problem though using bracketing.
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Jun 26 7:14 AM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                    practising quite a bit until i get it right!

                                    I've come across a problem though using bracketing.

                                    I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing the
                                    speed to 8, 15, 30.

                                    I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see whats
                                    going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets are
                                    stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all match.
                                    Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas that
                                    needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the image
                                    didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.

                                    Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have the
                                    same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on earth
                                    do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD files
                                    with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I redo
                                    each one manualy.

                                    Eagerly looking out for any replies

                                    Thanks

                                    Andrew
                                  • Sacha Griffin
                                    Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you have a lot of ram to open both documents quickly. Sacha Griffin Southern Digital Solutions LLC
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Jun 26 8:00 AM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you have a lot
                                      of ram to open both documents quickly.



                                      Sacha Griffin
                                      Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                      www.southern-digital.com
                                      www.seeit360.net
                                      www.ezphotosafe.com
                                      404-551-4275
                                      404-731-7798

                                      _____

                                      From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                      Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:14 AM
                                      To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for a 360
                                      panorama?



                                      Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                      practising quite a bit until i get it right!

                                      I've come across a problem though using bracketing.

                                      I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing the
                                      speed to 8, 15, 30.

                                      I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see whats
                                      going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets are
                                      stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all match.
                                      Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas that
                                      needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the image
                                      didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.

                                      Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have the
                                      same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on earth
                                      do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD files
                                      with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I redo
                                      each one manualy.

                                      Eagerly looking out for any replies

                                      Thanks

                                      Andrew





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Andrew G
                                      Thanks for the reply Sacha, I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Jun 26 8:52 AM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Thanks for the reply Sacha,

                                        I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time
                                        that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and the
                                        blended panorama)

                                        Made adjustments to No 1 PSD but after clicking on the layer mask and
                                        try to drag it over to the other PSD files, I just get the small
                                        symbol telling me it's not going to happen.

                                        I can drag the entire layer over to the new image complete with the
                                        mask but it's not properly alligned when it gets there.

                                        Very strange

                                        Andrew


                                        --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
                                        <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you
                                        have a lot
                                        > of ram to open both documents quickly.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Sacha Griffin
                                        > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                        > www.southern-digital.com
                                        > www.seeit360.net
                                        > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                        > 404-551-4275
                                        > 404-731-7798
                                        >
                                        > _____
                                        >
                                        > From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                        > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:14 AM
                                        > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for
                                        a 360
                                        > panorama?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                        > practising quite a bit until i get it right!
                                        >
                                        > I've come across a problem though using bracketing.
                                        >
                                        > I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing the
                                        > speed to 8, 15, 30.
                                        >
                                        > I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see
                                        whats
                                        > going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets are
                                        > stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all
                                        match.
                                        > Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas
                                        that
                                        > needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the image
                                        > didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.
                                        >
                                        > Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have
                                        the
                                        > same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on
                                        earth
                                        > do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD
                                        files
                                        > with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I redo
                                        > each one manualy.
                                        >
                                        > Eagerly looking out for any replies
                                        >
                                        > Thanks
                                        >
                                        > Andrew
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                      • Sacha Griffin
                                        Hmm you re right. Off the top of my head, heres A way. 1. Select the mask to copy 2. Control A 3. Copy 4. Go to the other document 5. Paste to make a new layer
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Jun 26 9:16 AM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Hmm you're right.

                                          Off the top of my head, heres A way.

                                          1. Select the mask to copy
                                          2. Control A
                                          3. Copy
                                          4. Go to the other document
                                          5. Paste to make a new layer
                                          6. Go to Channel
                                          7. Control Click on RGB
                                          8. Go to the Layer tab
                                          9. select your correct layer
                                          10. click on the mask icon.



                                          You can probably make an action to facilitate steps 6-7 or more to save
                                          time.





                                          Sacha Griffin
                                          Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                          www.southern-digital.com
                                          www.seeit360.net
                                          www.ezphotosafe.com
                                          404-551-4275
                                          404-731-7798

                                          _____

                                          From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                          Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:53 AM
                                          To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for a 360
                                          panorama?



                                          Thanks for the reply Sacha,

                                          I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time
                                          that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and the
                                          blended panorama)

                                          Made adjustments to No 1 PSD but after clicking on the layer mask and
                                          try to drag it over to the other PSD files, I just get the small
                                          symbol telling me it's not going to happen.

                                          I can drag the entire layer over to the new image complete with the
                                          mask but it's not properly alligned when it gets there.

                                          Very strange

                                          Andrew

                                          --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                                          "Sacha Griffin"
                                          <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you
                                          have a lot
                                          > of ram to open both documents quickly.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Sacha Griffin
                                          > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                          > www.southern-digital.com
                                          > www.seeit360.net
                                          > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                          > 404-551-4275
                                          > 404-731-7798
                                          >
                                          > _____
                                          >
                                          > From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                          > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:14 AM
                                          > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                          > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for
                                          a 360
                                          > panorama?
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                          > practising quite a bit until i get it right!
                                          >
                                          > I've come across a problem though using bracketing.
                                          >
                                          > I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing the
                                          > speed to 8, 15, 30.
                                          >
                                          > I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see
                                          whats
                                          > going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets are
                                          > stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all
                                          match.
                                          > Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas
                                          that
                                          > needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the image
                                          > didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.
                                          >
                                          > Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have
                                          the
                                          > same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on
                                          earth
                                          > do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD
                                          files
                                          > with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I redo
                                          > each one manualy.
                                          >
                                          > Eagerly looking out for any replies
                                          >
                                          > Thanks
                                          >
                                          > Andrew
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Sacha Griffin
                                          To drag the whole layer properly and aligned- hold shift. That could be an easier or quicker way, to just deleted the layer when you ve stolen its mask. Sacha
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Jun 26 9:27 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            To drag the whole layer properly and aligned- hold shift.

                                            That could be an easier or quicker way, to just deleted the layer when
                                            you've stolen its mask.



                                            Sacha Griffin
                                            Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                            www.southern-digital.com
                                            www.seeit360.net
                                            www.ezphotosafe.com
                                            404-551-4275
                                            404-731-7798

                                            _____

                                            From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                            Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:53 AM
                                            To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                            Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for a 360
                                            panorama?



                                            Thanks for the reply Sacha,

                                            I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time
                                            that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and the
                                            blended panorama)

                                            Made adjustments to No 1 PSD but after clicking on the layer mask and
                                            try to drag it over to the other PSD files, I just get the small
                                            symbol telling me it's not going to happen.

                                            I can drag the entire layer over to the new image complete with the
                                            mask but it's not properly alligned when it gets there.

                                            Very strange

                                            Andrew

                                            --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com,
                                            "Sacha Griffin"
                                            <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you
                                            have a lot
                                            > of ram to open both documents quickly.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Sacha Griffin
                                            > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                            > www.southern-digital.com
                                            > www.seeit360.net
                                            > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                            > 404-551-4275
                                            > 404-731-7798
                                            >
                                            > _____
                                            >
                                            > From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                            > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:14 AM
                                            > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for
                                            a 360
                                            > panorama?
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                            > practising quite a bit until i get it right!
                                            >
                                            > I've come across a problem though using bracketing.
                                            >
                                            > I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing the
                                            > speed to 8, 15, 30.
                                            >
                                            > I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see
                                            whats
                                            > going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets are
                                            > stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all
                                            match.
                                            > Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas
                                            that
                                            > needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the image
                                            > didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.
                                            >
                                            > Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have
                                            the
                                            > same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on
                                            earth
                                            > do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD
                                            files
                                            > with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I redo
                                            > each one manualy.
                                            >
                                            > Eagerly looking out for any replies
                                            >
                                            > Thanks
                                            >
                                            > Andrew
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >





                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Andrew G
                                            Excellent! Sacha, that did the trick. Drag each one over using shift. Then drag the newly imported mask down over the top of the relevant layer mask and click
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Jun 26 10:16 AM
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Excellent!

                                              Sacha, that did the trick. Drag each one over using shift. Then drag
                                              the newly imported mask down over the top of the relevant layer mask
                                              and click 'ok' to replace it. Then delete what was left of the
                                              layer. Works good.

                                              Thanks very much

                                              Andrew


                                              --- In PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com, "Sacha Griffin"
                                              <sachagriffin@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > To drag the whole layer properly and aligned- hold shift.
                                              >
                                              > That could be an easier or quicker way, to just deleted the layer
                                              when
                                              > you've stolen its mask.
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Sacha Griffin
                                              > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                              > www.southern-digital.com
                                              > www.seeit360.net
                                              > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                              > 404-551-4275
                                              > 404-731-7798
                                              >
                                              > _____
                                              >
                                              > From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@...]
                                              > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 11:53 AM
                                              > To: PanoToolsNG@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing for
                                              a 360
                                              > panorama?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Thanks for the reply Sacha,
                                              >
                                              > I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time
                                              > that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and the
                                              > blended panorama)
                                              >
                                              > Made adjustments to No 1 PSD but after clicking on the layer mask
                                              and
                                              > try to drag it over to the other PSD files, I just get the small
                                              > symbol telling me it's not going to happen.
                                              >
                                              > I can drag the entire layer over to the new image complete with the
                                              > mask but it's not properly alligned when it gets there.
                                              >
                                              > Very strange
                                              >
                                              > Andrew
                                              >
                                              > --- In PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              yahoogroups.com,
                                              > "Sacha Griffin"
                                              > <sachagriffin@> wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Masks are dragable between layers and documents. I just hope you
                                              > have a lot
                                              > > of ram to open both documents quickly.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Sacha Griffin
                                              > > Southern Digital Solutions LLC - Atlanta, Georgia
                                              > > www.southern-digital.com
                                              > > www.seeit360.net
                                              > > www.ezphotosafe.com
                                              > > 404-551-4275
                                              > > 404-731-7798
                                              > >
                                              > > _____
                                              > >
                                              > > From: Andrew G [mailto:conanthedestroya222@]
                                              > > Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 10:14 AM
                                              > > To: PanoToolsNG@ <mailto:PanoToolsNG%40yahoogroups.com>
                                              yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: [PanoToolsNG] Re: How would you do exposure bracketing
                                              for
                                              > a 360
                                              > > panorama?
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > Lots of extra info added and good reading. Thanks. Going to be
                                              > > practising quite a bit until i get it right!
                                              > >
                                              > > I've come across a problem though using bracketing.
                                              > >
                                              > > I took 3 sets of images as a demo. All 3 with F4.8 but changing
                                              the
                                              > > speed to 8, 15, 30.
                                              > >
                                              > > I stitch the set using speed 8 as that has the most light to see
                                              > whats
                                              > > going on. Export it as a PSD with layers. Then the other 2 sets
                                              are
                                              > > stitched using the PTGui template of the speed 8 one so they all
                                              > match.
                                              > > Opening the complete speed 8 PSD, I noticed there were some areas
                                              > that
                                              > > needed adjustments in the masking as the curtain rails in the
                                              image
                                              > > didn't line up correctly. Sorted that out.
                                              > >
                                              > > Now I have the problem in that the other two psd files also have
                                              > the
                                              > > same line up problem as they came from the same template. How on
                                              > earth
                                              > > do I duplicate the mask work on the first image onto the two PSD
                                              > files
                                              > > with their own masks? I won't be able to match it exactly if I
                                              redo
                                              > > each one manualy.
                                              > >
                                              > > Eagerly looking out for any replies
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks
                                              > >
                                              > > Andrew
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                            • Rodolpho Pajuaba
                                              One thing you can do is to delete the masks of the second and third files, load the masks as selection and create a new layer mask, for each layer. Takes some
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Jun 26 10:46 AM
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                One thing you can do is to delete the masks of the second and third
                                                files, load the masks as selection and create a new layer mask, for each
                                                layer. Takes some time but it works, and they will be perfectly aligned.

                                                Andrew G escreveu:
                                                > Thanks for the reply Sacha,
                                                >
                                                > I tried that first. Have all three PSD files open at the same time
                                                > that were exported from PTGui. Each has 7 layers. (6 images and the
                                                > blended panorama)
                                                >
                                                > Made adjustments to No 1 PSD but after clicking on the layer mask and
                                                > try to drag it over to the other PSD files, I just get the small
                                                > symbol telling me it's not going to happen.
                                                >
                                                > I can drag the entire layer over to the new image complete with the
                                                > mask but it's not properly alligned when it gets there.
                                                >

                                                If you shift-drag (i.e. drag with the shift key pressed) they will align.

                                                Hope this helps,
                                                Rodolpho Pajuaba
                                              • - AYRTON - (avi)
                                                Thans Eric for all the explanations I got your point AYRTON
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Jun 26 2:10 PM
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Thans Eric for all the explanations
                                                  I got your point

                                                  AYRTON


                                                  On 26/06/2007, at 02:50, Eric O'Brien wrote:

                                                  > On Jun 25, 2007, at 12:30 PM, - AYRTON - (avi) wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >> On 25/06/2007, at 16:16, Eric O'Brien wrote:
                                                  >>
                                                  >>> ... I'm undecided about what the
                                                  >>> "right" settings are for Brightness and Contrast -- I'm not sure
                                                  >>> that
                                                  >>> zero is the right setting for these.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Well I adjust these according with the *kind* of the image ...
                                                  >> sometimes more, sometimes less ...
                                                  >
                                                  > As I have said (or, perhaps, am about to say)... I think that the
                                                  > conversion of raw is not the appropriate point in the workflow to
                                                  > change these things.
                                                  >
                                                  >>> I would be hesitant to change ANY settings other than white balance
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Why is that ???
                                                  >
                                                  > Here's my thinking:
                                                  >
                                                  > My comments assume that we are talking about bracketed sets of images
                                                  > whose only purpose is to act as INPUT MATERIAL for conversion to
                                                  > HDR. Based on that, the conversion from raw files is NOT the
                                                  > appropriate place in the workflow to "fine tune" the appearance of
                                                  > the images.
                                                  >
                                                  > SO, the thing to do here -- it seems to me -- is to produce data
                                                  > files (images) that are the LEAST manipulated as possible. The place
                                                  > in the workflow to change contrast or brightness is at the TONE
                                                  > MAPPING stage (or after), not earlier. The same for almost all other
                                                  > settings. [No, I have not analytically tested my assumption.
                                                  > However, if it is true, making these modifications at as close to the
                                                  > final stage as possible could save a LOT of effort!]
                                                  >
                                                  >>> (then apply that same change to ALL images) and Lens
                                                  >>> Correction. If
                                                  >>> you must adjust "exposure," the same rule applies: change ALL
                                                  >>> images
                                                  >>> by the same amount.
                                                  >>> Before doing a conversion, check/change these things:
                                                  >>> In the the Camera Raw preferences, set Apply sharpening to
                                                  >>> "Preview
                                                  >>> images only."
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Why that too ???
                                                  >
                                                  > The general consensus (and I mostly agree) seems to be that the
                                                  > appropriate stage in the workflow to apply sharpening is AT or NEAR
                                                  > the end. Therefore, I suggest NOT sharpening during raw conversion.
                                                  > (Although it might be that a *small* amount of "capture sharpening"
                                                  > could be appropriate. I simply haven't done comparative tests.)
                                                  >
                                                  > In this workflow (bracketed exposures -> merge to HDR -> Tone Map),
                                                  > the appropriate point to apply sharpening would be on the tone mapped
                                                  > result.
                                                  >
                                                  >>> Turn OFF "Apply auto tone adjustments."
                                                  >>> Under the Tone Curve settings, make sure "Linear" is selected.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Again; why ? I eman, for different kind of subjects, I choose a
                                                  >> different stting ... sometimes more contrast, other times much less.
                                                  >> But for sure I apply to ALL images.
                                                  >
                                                  > [I feel VERY certain that we want to disable "Apply auto tone
                                                  > adjustments." -- when on, this will automatically modify EACH IMAGE
                                                  > INDIVIDUALLY. We certainly do not want to do that!]
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Just to be clear: I refer to the situation where we are converting a
                                                  > bracketed set of raw images for the purpose of eventually converting
                                                  > to HDR, then Tone Mapping.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > If that is the case, the *appropriate* point in the workflow to
                                                  > modify the contrast/curve/saturation/vibrance ... whatEVER... would
                                                  > be either *during* Tone Mapping (if possible) or afterwards, on the
                                                  > Tone Mapped result. It would *not* be appropriate to modify the
                                                  > contrast (or whatever) of the source files to be input into the
                                                  > conversion process.
                                                  >
                                                  > As for Curve settings, consider:
                                                  >
                                                  > For a *single* exposure, we may well want an "S" shaped curve
                                                  > ("Medium Contrast"). This is the shape of the response of
                                                  > traditional materials: lower contrast in the "shadow" and
                                                  > "highlight" areas.
                                                  >
                                                  > But if the file we are working with is an intermediate step, not the
                                                  > final output, what will meddling with the output Curve result in?
                                                  >
                                                  > A strange "wiggle," across the composite "exposure," it would seem to
                                                  > me.
                                                  >
                                                  > I LIKE the "S" curve; I SUPPORT the "S" curve. But the place to
                                                  > apply it, it seems to me, is against the final, Tone Mapped, result,
                                                  > not upon each individual image. The same argument applies to any of
                                                  > the other settings: the appropriate point in the workflow to make
                                                  > such changes is AFTER merging to HDR.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Disclaimer: I have not actually done any analytical comparative
                                                  > testing that prove or disprove my assumptions. However, if my
                                                  > assumptions ARE "correct," a LARGE amount of pointless (and perhaps
                                                  > damaging) effort can be avoided:
                                                  >
                                                  > Convert all raw files using "neutral" or "linear" settings (except
                                                  > for color temperature);
                                                  >
                                                  > Convert the results to HDR files;
                                                  >
                                                  > Tone Map the results.
                                                  >
                                                  > On the Tone Mapped results (or during the Tone Mapping process, if
                                                  > possible) --
                                                  >
                                                  > THEN apply the bulk of any "tuning" desired (curve shape, etc.)
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > eo
                                                  >
                                                  >>
                                                  >>> Take similar precautions when using Lightroom. Remember that at the
                                                  >>> time you import images, you can select which Preset (Called "Develop
                                                  >>> Settings" in the Import dialog) to apply to the images that are
                                                  >>> imported. It can be useful to create a "for panoramas" Preset that
                                                  >>> has all settings neutralized and "Lens Corrections" preset for
                                                  >>> whatever lens you use.
                                                  >>
                                                  >> good idea :-)
                                                  >>
                                                  >> Thanks
                                                  >> AYRTON
                                                  >>
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> eo
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>> On Jun 24, 2007, at 11:39 AM, Robert C. Fisher wrote:
                                                  >>>
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>> On Jun 24, 2007, at 10:51 AM, Andrew G wrote:
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>>> Hi Robert,
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> After you've made the matching adjustments to the first regular
                                                  >>>>> set
                                                  >>>>> of raw images you also apply that same setting to the other two
                                                  >>>>> exposure sets? I thought they would have to have their own
                                                  >>>>> settings?
                                                  >>>> Pick a image that has a reasonable range of exposure then adjust
                                                  >>>> and
                                                  >>>> apply settings, in bridge, then select the other images including
                                                  >>>> the
                                                  >>>> over/under images go to tools>apply camera raw settings>previous
                                                  >>>> conversion. If you are using bracketed images from a camera that
                                                  >>>> produces them this will work well since the images were exposed
                                                  >>>> with
                                                  >>>> the proper over/under exposures. This will apply the same
                                                  >>>> settings to
                                                  >>>> the images selected. You want all the images to have the same
                                                  >>>> settings/exposure so it doesn't change and screw up the blending
                                                  >>>> later.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> I've just been reading the help files in Photoshop CS2 regarding
                                                  >>>>> droplets, batching and actions. That does seem to be the way to
                                                  >>>>> go. I
                                                  >>>>> also had a quick go using Adobe Bridge.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Tools - Photoshop - Image processor.
                                                  >>>> Also learn how to make actions since they are really easy to do and
                                                  >>>> can save huge time. I just made an action that did in 2 minutes
                                                  >>>> what
                                                  >>>> would have take over an hour to do by hand to 36 images. When you
                                                  >>>> use
                                                  >>>> the action with the batch function then you can specify different
                                                  >>>> destination folders for the image sets.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Opened the first raw file to apply the settings and then it does
                                                  >>>>> the
                                                  >>>>> rest and saves them as tif files! Great stuff. This would be
                                                  >>>>> perfect
                                                  >>>>> if you could apply the same settings to all 3 sets of exposures.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Definitely a good start though to saving time.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Also Ayrton just convinced me to use RAW and not to mess around
                                                  >>>>> with
                                                  >>>>> JPEGS as I previously mentioned. I guess the D80 will write the
                                                  >>>>> RAW
                                                  >>>>> files a lot faster to the card than the CP8400 so may as well
                                                  >>>>> put up
                                                  >>>>> with it for now.
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Thanks
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>> Andrew
                                                  >>>>>
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>>
                                                  >>>> Cheers
                                                  >>>> Robert C. Fisher
                                                  >>>> VR Photography/Cinematography
                                                  >>>
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --
                                                  >
                                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                • Wheaton, Simon
                                                  Could you possibly trim your responses? Simon Canberra AUSTRALIA ________________________________ From: AYRTON - (avi) Sent: Wed 27/06/2007 7:10 AM Thans Eric
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Jun 26 2:11 PM
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    Could you possibly trim your responses?

                                                    Simon
                                                    Canberra
                                                    AUSTRALIA

                                                    ________________________________

                                                    From: AYRTON - (avi)
                                                    Sent: Wed 27/06/2007 7:10 AM

                                                    Thans Eric for all the explanations
                                                    I got your point

                                                    AYRTON

                                                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                    This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along with any attachments immediately. You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents to any other person.
                                                    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.