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1112Re: [PanoToolsNG] Re: hugin 0.6 - amazing!

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  • Yuval Levy
    Aug 1, 2006
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      mike@... wrote:
      > The main advantage of PTGui I have observed:
      > It's dammend easy for beginners.
      It's even better for advanced users.

      > The simple mode developed a good result just clicking a handful of buttons without knowing how panotools are 'ticking' - great!
      >
      I used this mode only once and decide that it is better for me to run
      PTgui in semi-automatd mode.

      > This is very remarkable since in the early days of hugin one of Pablo's major targets was to develop an easy to use/learn panorama frontend. I think hugin is stable, comfortable, easy to use, but it's definitevely not easy to learn.
      >
      With the advanced knowledge from PTgui I found the trasition easy. The
      process is the same, the tabs replicating it in the user interface are
      similar. The difficulties (and the inefficiencies) are at the user
      interface level, not the functionality which is almost identical.

      > Things have changed a lot and meanwhile it's easier than ever to start developing panoramas. Hugin (and PTGui as well) gives you a complete package and straight from downloading and installing you can start - that's really cool.
      >
      Indeed, both of them do, as does Autopano Pro. I have not tried
      Stitcher, but it does this too. Gone are the day of difficult installs.

      > Hugin isn't able to detect the correct lens setting for my old Sigma 8mm MF - PTGui can. If you have a file stored with the lens setting you found once you're fine. I think Hugin will address this by using the ptlens database soon?!
      >
      > PTGui can find the right cropcircle automatically - cool! Not a big deal in Hugin (just 2 clicks), but a newbie will not know that such a function is there and what it is good for.
      >
      My way of working is to set up a template for a specific combo of camera
      and lens. The template has been around for a while, so I was not aware
      that PTgui finds the crop circle automatically. Nice for a newbie. A
      template is more efficient (though it could be made even more efficient
      if the stitching software would verify that there has not been a shift
      of the circle).

      > Using autopano-sift/autopano within hugin is fine. Best results I get using autopano-sift without ransac check. So there are wrong controlpoints I need to filter for. Usually I optimize 2-4 times and delete the points with very large values using the controlpointlist. That are only a few clicks, but a newbie will stumble on this.
      >
      CP are IMHO one of the major weaknesses of hugin. Although the automated
      zoom in is nice, it slows the machine down. The round circles
      identifying the CPs are very difficult to read. I'd rather have a
      crosshair X or something else that identifies the exact point, not the
      appoximate area where it is located. Working through the list of CP is
      difficult, as is manual entry of yaw/pitch/roll in the image parameters.
      I do not know if this is hugin, or the widgets used for its GUI, but it
      slows me down.

      > The default optimization method of hugin is very helpful to detect wrong points and to bring the images into a general order. For good results you need to select another method (maybe "All" or "Custom"). Having not enough cp's, no verticals/horizontals or only many cp's, that are crowded around the center this can result in settings that are less good (Hugin reports that, like PTGui does). That's not an issue and due to UNDO etc. this can be easily and quickly solved. But a newbie would stumble here again. I think PTGui optimizes only y,p,r,b (and v?!) in simple mode to avoid those situations.
      >
      I like the different preset optimization methods. I also like PTgui
      granularity that allows me to select individually which parameter to
      optimize when I need to do so. In my PTgui template I have it preset to
      what is my usual first step. Only for difficult stitches I have to
      change what is optimized. Having the ability to create such custom sets
      (i.e. going further than what hugin does now) and save the set under a
      name would be a bonus.

      True, a newbie would stumble, but then the question is who is the target
      audience. And: it is possible to have the same user interface for both
      experts and newbies, as PTgui shows. The reference for newbies however
      is Autopano: drop a directory on it with source images for 10 panos and
      it will compose all of them with *no* user intervention. Unfortunately
      it does not yet support Fisheye.

      > Preview in hugin is fine and fast and automatically updated if needed - well done! It also show's you the influence of the vignetting tool!!!
      >
      Yes, I liked the preview. This is where in PTgui I do numerical
      transform to "frame" the view as I want it. I do not recall if this was
      possible in hugin too.

      > I'm thankful for the vignetting capabilities although I think this belongs into a RAW converter
      agree.

      > In the end, the result in Hugin (using my usual technique) was better (less stitching errors) than in PTGui using simple mode. Deleting one wrong controlpoint in PTGui (using the controlpoint list) and adding 2 addional points finally leaded to very similar results.
      It took me significantly more time to finish the stitch in hugin, with
      similar quality. IMHO stitching applications no longer differentiate on
      the set of features. They all have great features and do a decent job.
      What matters to me now is efficiency. Speed. Usability.

      > My recommendations to make Hugin more newby-friendly:
      > - A wizard/druid (maybe a range of wizards "Spherical with Fish", "Multirow with Rect", etc..) that triggers autopano/-sift with useful parameters, does basic optimisation and cp filtering, stable post-optimisation, comes up with a preview and shows a short report what you can do next to improve your panorama (or a button "Stitch Now?").
      >
      could be helpful. I'd rather see hugin using a different auto CP
      functionality - one that does not come with the strings attached of
      autopano/-sift (there are patents in there).

      > - A bad-cp-filtering-by-optimisation tool would be nice as well for advanced users.
      >
      yes, and hopefully that auto CP functionality will work. I've stitched
      hundreds of panos in PTgui and had seldom bad CPs. Only in two instances
      (very symmetric buildings) I encountered massive problems. I sent them
      to Joost and I believe he has improved autoCP in the meantime.

      > - A basic HTML creation tab (just some fields for author, title, template, etc.) to create a folder with ptviewer, an html file (using a HTML template file), and the equirectangular image in would be a nice goodie for beginners too.
      >
      IMHO this does not belong into a stitching tool, and there are good
      authoring tools out there. Pano2QTVR takes the stitched equirect and
      generates all the necessary output / formats.

      What I'd like to see is HDR end to end: take HDR input pictures and
      output a stitched HDR pano.

      For newbies I prefer the Autopano Pro approach. No wizards. No
      explanations. Just drop the folder on the app and let it run. At this
      level, competition is anyway from the non-perspective corrected
      stitching tools that come bundled with consumer digital cameras and not
      the perspective corrected tools like the ones we discuss here.


      Yuv
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