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old english vs. new english...

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  • Frank
    Virupa Arya Thera wrote: Greetings, I would say your best bet is the Pali Text Society as they have the most comprehensive models available, at discounts of
    Message 1 of 3 , Jan 26, 2006
      Virupa Arya Thera wrote:

      Greetings,
      I would say your best bet is the Pali Text Society as they have the most comprehensive models available, at discounts of members too!
      Also, up to date language can be filled with much slang and inappropriate methods of speaking and structure from an academic standpoint. Myself being a Buddhist priest, the need for such language creates an appropriate tone setting of the language and keeps a foundation of edified translation of the spoken form. Similar to the use of old and new English in Bible translations, incredible levels of structure and meaning are lost and immensely impact one's internalizing the meaning of the words themselves.
      Virupa Arya Thera
      =====================================================

      Dear Virupa Arya Thera,
      Coincidentally or ironically (I don't know which yet), I kind of get the gist of what you're saying above, but I had no idea based on what you wrote above where you personally stand.
      Are you saying that in your role as Buddhist Priest, you prefer old English style translations that are inscrutable to modern readers, or that you prefer new English style translations which contain some slang but is easier to understand because it serves to explain some of the incredible structures of the original scriptures which would have otherwise been lost on modern readers?

      -fk




      frank@...


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • redlotustemple@aol.com
      Old, definately old, fk. I possess a bible over 120 years old and the language could not be more focused and perfect for bringing about understanding of the
      Message 2 of 3 , Jan 26, 2006
        Old, definately old, fk. I possess a bible over 120 years old and the
        language could not be more focused and perfect for bringing about understanding of
        the inner meaning, Gnosis, of the Bible's deliverance.

        I truly see why the Buddha taught that investigation of phenomena is actually
        a quality of enlightement. We cannot be slothish and lazy in our spiritual
        growth and understanding. The complexity of the world around us is set to be
        understood at many levels. But, we cannot lowr the standard of the deliverance
        because of assimilated cultural laziness in langauge comprehension. It
        really degrades the message and bridge between those speaking and those receiveing.


        Remember that slothiness and idleness is a fetter to rid ourselves of. It
        would stand to support learning and more in-depth understanding of the context
        of written translation in a better solidified language enviornment of
        translation instead of cutting it short and mixing slang and cultural newness to the
        mess and mix.

        I actualy posses more than 30 bibles and hundreds of histroical and religous
        texts focued on such problematic areas. I also spent some time talking with a
        biblical scholar named Gerd Luddermann on the topic plus owning his books in
        German as well. This helped me understand the complexities of mistranslation
        of such world important books with upgrades and degragdes of content.

        I will now bow out of any discussion on the topic any further due to it being
        off topic of the group's purpose only on Pali. I can answer it further via
        redlotustemple@... if you wish. Thanks for the e-mail fk...great question.
        If you'd like to visit our Sangha and read the Bible I speak of right in our
        library please do. Just let us know when you plan to visit you are always
        welcome!

        Virupa Arya
        Director
        Red Lotus Temple
        Fairborn, Ohio


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • sjeff70
        I understand everyone s point. I recently checked out Wisdom s red volume (Middle Length) and was disappointed with the translation. It was watered down. I d
        Message 3 of 3 , Jan 27, 2006
          I understand everyone's point. I recently checked out Wisdom's red
          volume (Middle Length) and was disappointed with the translation.
          It was watered down. I'd rather struggle with a more word for word
          translation. I have not looked at Wisdom's other translations, ie,
          Long and Connected discourses.

          I happened to picked up a "Disciple" magazine by chance the other
          day and realized what someone here mentioned about the different
          translations of the Bible. The Kings James Versions are the oldest
          and most word for word. I would rather try to figure out the
          meaning and how it fits me rather than have someone give me their
          meaning. Of course the era of language has to be translated too.
          It might be wise to have two translations.

          Jesus as a youth was recorded as saying, and in so many words, "In a
          particular instance, a sin is not a universal sin, what a sin for
          one is not necessarily a sin for another."
          I guess this could be the case for translations. The six Paramitas
          for instanceÂ…Generosity has very different meanings for different
          translators. One interprets it as communication: being generous
          while communicating with others. How did he get that? Did it make
          the most sense for his particular situation? Out of all translations
          this one made the most sense for me.

          I see why one would want to learn Pali. If I was properly motivated
          I would make the attempt to learn the language.











          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Frank <frank@4...> wrote:
          >
          > Virupa Arya Thera wrote:
          >
          > Greetings,
          > I would say your best bet is the Pali Text Society as they
          have the most comprehensive models available, at discounts of
          members too!
          > Also, up to date language can be filled with much slang and
          inappropriate methods of speaking and structure from an academic
          standpoint. Myself being a Buddhist priest, the need for such
          language creates an appropriate tone setting of the language and
          keeps a foundation of edified translation of the spoken form.
          Similar to the use of old and new English in Bible translations,
          incredible levels of structure and meaning are lost and immensely
          impact one's internalizing the meaning of the words themselves.
          > Virupa Arya Thera
          > =====================================================
          >
          > Dear Virupa Arya Thera,
          > Coincidentally or ironically (I don't know which yet), I
          kind of get the gist of what you're saying above, but I had no idea
          based on what you wrote above where you personally stand.
          > Are you saying that in your role as Buddhist Priest, you
          prefer old English style translations that are inscrutable to modern
          readers, or that you prefer new English style translations which
          contain some slang but is easier to understand because it serves to
          explain some of the incredible structures of the original scriptures
          which would have otherwise been lost on modern readers?
          >
          > -fk
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > frank@4...
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
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