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SV: Re: [Pali] Project Pali Scope: Unicode fonts

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  • lighthisertim
    ... Hi, From the Unicode Standard : The Lao language and script are closely related to Thai. The Unicode Standard encodes the Lao script in the same relative
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
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      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar G�llmo <gunnargallmo@y...> wrote:
      > Is there a Lao script? I thought the Lao language is
      > written with Thai script.

      Hi,

      From the "Unicode Standard":

      The Lao language and script are closely related to Thai. The Unicode Standard encodes the
      Lao script in the same relative order as Thai. Lao contains fewer letters than Thai because
      by 1960 it was simplified to be fairly phonemic, while Thai maintains many etymological
      spellings that are homonyms. Regular word spacing is not used in Lao; spaces separate
      phrases or sentences instead. <http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/
      ch10.pdf>

      South Asian Scripts
      http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/ch9.pdf

      tl
    • Walter Stanish
      In my experience trying to learn Lao after the Thai script few years ago, Lao contains many of the same consonants as Thai (however its total number of
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
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        In my experience trying to learn Lao after the Thai script few years
        ago, Lao contains many of the same consonants as Thai (however its
        total number of consonants are fewer) and its script more clearly
        derived from leaf inscriptions, being significantly more rounded.

        As for vowels, the Lao language seems to have an order of magnitude
        more exotic-looking vowel combinations than Thai, which in my short
        experience was a more difficult challenge than anything else when
        learning the language.

        To clarify, I can't say I've 'learned' either script, though I can
        usually read place names and words I already know when seen in
        context in both countries. Hoping to improve, in time!


        - Walter, whose trip to Thailand is postponed, so is still online :)
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends, thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 6, 2005
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          Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends,

          thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply
          amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai script is now part of the
          standard installation for most computers. As I understand, there are
          more Pali resources in Sinhala or Burmese scripts than in Thai, Khmer
          or Laotian(?). Then, we have manuscripts in Gandhari and Brahmi.
          Lastly, there are the synthesised texts in Devanagari and Mongol
          scripts (as those found on CSCD).

          There may not yet be a single font containing all the scripts. To the
          best of my knowledge, there isn't even one that contains two of the
          scripts. However, with Unicode, we are looking at fonts incorporating
          the various scripts in the near future.

          Harry: thanks for your offer to help. I am still working out the
          plans for the project. And I shall let everyone know when it is ready.


          metta,
          Yong Peng.



          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Walter Stanish wrote:

          I believe that most systems these days have at least Thai Unicode
          fonts installed by default. (Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but
          Burmese, Khmer and Lao scripts are perhaps still quite rare. At
          least, none of them seem to be available as input options in my copy
          of (Chinese) Windows XP Pro.)

          Anyway, I'm sure there are Unicode fonts available for all of those
          scripts, see for example the Pali Rosetta Stone my friend Eisel
          Mazard has done and saved to PDF:

          http://pratyeka.org/pali/PaliRosettaStone.pdf
        • Harry Liew
          Dear Yong Peng, and friends, Thanks for the update. Happy to get this opportunity to be of any use. I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 6, 2005
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            Dear Yong Peng, and friends,

            Thanks for the update. Happy to get this opportunity to be of any use.

            I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
            http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you people).

            Beginning to learn Pali recently, and being a poor organiser, I have problems in finding the downloaded materials when needed. Or after flipping through a few web pages, checking through dictionary, grammar, etc, I have problem in finding home. This small application was therefore created in response to my premature senility :-).

            It may sit as a complete desktop application without installation and internet access. When fully zipped, it is about 1.5 MB.

            This is only a prototype which hopefully may become a group project, please... The code is very simple and small. ( 99.9% WYSIWYG)

            Thanks.

            Metta,

            Harry

            Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends,

            thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply
            amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai script is now part of the
            standard installation for most computers. As I understand, there are
            more Pali resources in Sinhala or Burmese scripts than in Thai, Khmer
            or Laotian(?). Then, we have manuscripts in Gandhari and Brahmi.
            Lastly, there are the synthesised texts in Devanagari and Mongol
            scripts (as those found on CSCD).

            There may not yet be a single font containing all the scripts. To the
            best of my knowledge, there isn't even one that contains two of the
            scripts. However, with Unicode, we are looking at fonts incorporating
            the various scripts in the near future.

            Harry: thanks for your offer to help. I am still working out the
            plans for the project. And I shall let everyone know when it is ready.


            metta,
            Yong Peng.



            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Walter Stanish wrote:

            I believe that most systems these days have at least Thai Unicode
            fonts installed by default. (Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but
            Burmese, Khmer and Lao scripts are perhaps still quite rare. At
            least, none of them seem to be available as input options in my copy
            of (Chinese) Windows XP Pro.)

            Anyway, I'm sure there are Unicode fonts available for all of those
            scripts, see for example the Pali Rosetta Stone my friend Eisel
            Mazard has done and saved to PDF:

            http://pratyeka.org/pali/PaliRosettaStone.pdf





            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



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          • Ong Yong Peng
            Dear Harry, Connie and friends, Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 9, 2005
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              Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

              Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
              students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
              it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
              laptop).

              You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
              but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

              When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
              the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


              metta,
              Yong Peng.


              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

              I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
              learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
              http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
              for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
              don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
              people).
            • Harry Liew
              Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends, Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 9, 2005
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                Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                Thanks.

                Metta,

                Harry





                Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                laptop).

                You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                metta,
                Yong Peng.


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                people).





                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                ---------------------------------
                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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              • Ong Yong Peng
                Dear Harry, Connie and friends, please take note, Harry, 1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt System (or software). It is only my
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 10, 2005
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                  Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                  please take note, Harry,

                  1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                  System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                  I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                  runs outside the standard browser?

                  2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                  proposed software:

                  (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                  the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                  cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                  (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                  can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                  the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                  have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                  include them in your proposed software.


                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.


                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                  Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                  know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                  crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                  user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                  doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                  you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                  please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                  happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                  Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                  study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                  for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                  progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                  supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                  project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                  S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                  > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                  > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                  > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                  > laptop).
                  >
                  > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                  > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                  > use.
                  >
                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                  > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm
                • Harry Liew
                  Dear Yong Peng, Connie and friends, Yong Peng, thanks for your very helpful feedback. This software is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 10, 2005
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                    Dear Yong Peng, Connie and friends,

                    Yong Peng, thanks for your very helpful feedback.

                    This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe, asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.

                    The initial intention is a throw-away personal organizer for a specific purpose - learning Pali. However, on second thought it might be useful for other beginners as well. Therefore the present intention is for the group to take full ownership of the whole project if materialized, and all versions, including future versions for an intermediate and an advance level Pali study, depending on the needs of the members. Hopefully a senior member nominated by the group will examine it, take charge of it if it is of any use, and provide a legitimate platform for further development - my role is strictly a voluntary technician. As owner, the group has full right to do whatever it wants with it.

                    To reiterate, the present prototype was developed for my own use as a beginner in Pali study for ease of navigation and access to the various downloaded study materials for learning Pali as permitted by compassionate owners and authors of those study materials. I have no intention to develop it further other than a thrownaway temporary study tool unless the group thinks otherwise. (Planned version for intermediate level is meant for personal usage in learning Pali. As for advance version, ........not sure.... :-) .)

                    Thank you for your kindness and your effort.

                    Metta,

                    Harry




                    Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:

                    Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                    please take note, Harry,

                    1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                    System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                    I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                    runs outside the standard browser?

                    2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                    proposed software:

                    (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                    the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                    cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                    (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                    can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                    the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                    have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                    include them in your proposed software.


                    metta,
                    Yong Peng.


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                    Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                    know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                    crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                    user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                    doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                    you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                    please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                    happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                    Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                    study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                    for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                    progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                    supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                    project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                    S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                    > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                    > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                    > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                    > laptop).
                    >
                    > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                    > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                    > use.
                    >
                    > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                    > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm






                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                    [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                    [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Pali Theravada buddhism Beyond belief
                    Tibetan buddhism Zen buddhism

                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                    * Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.





                    Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                    please take note, Harry,

                    1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                    System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                    I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                    runs outside the standard browser?

                    2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                    proposed software:

                    (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                    the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                    cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                    (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                    can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                    the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                    have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                    include them in your proposed software.


                    metta,
                    Yong Peng.


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                    Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                    know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                    crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                    user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                    doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                    you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                    please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                    happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                    Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                    study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                    for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                    progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                    supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                    project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                    S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                    > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                    > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                    > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                    > laptop).
                    >
                    > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                    > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                    > use.
                    >
                    > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                    > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm






                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                    [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                    [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                    SPONSORED LINKS
                    Pali Theravada buddhism Beyond belief Tibetan buddhism Zen buddhism

                    ---------------------------------
                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                    Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                    ---------------------------------






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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • gurusinha sena
                    It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book Teach Yourself Pali in English have good sound and
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 11, 2005
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                      It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have good sound and clear pronunciation.

                      Harry Liew <harryliew66@...> wrote: Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                      Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                      Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                      Thanks.

                      Metta,

                      Harry





                      Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                      Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                      students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                      it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                      laptop).

                      You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                      but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                      When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                      the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                      metta,
                      Yong Peng.


                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                      I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                      learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                      http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                      for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                      don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                      people).





                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                      [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                      [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                      [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                      Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                      ---------------------------------
                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                      Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                      ---------------------------------






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                      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                      Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                      [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                      [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                      [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                      Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                      ---------------------------------
                      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                      Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                      Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                      ---------------------------------






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                      Yahoo! Shopping
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                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear friends, the SBMC website: http://www.buddhist-book.com/ In the past, SBMC has published many quality books, such as the Illustrated Light of Asia, and
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                        Dear friends,

                        the SBMC website: http://www.buddhist-book.com/

                        In the past, SBMC has published many quality books, such as the
                        Illustrated Light of Asia, and the Illustrated Dhammapada (now
                        available in PDF from Buddhanet). Not to mentioned to long awaited
                        Illustrated Jataka Tales, which is due to be published anytime.

                        I am not sure about the CD-ROM, but is interested to obtain a copy.
                        Anyone with more information? Thanks.

                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, gurusinha sena wrote:

                        It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I
                        check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have
                        good sound and clear pronunciation.
                      • Ong Yong Peng
                        Dear Harry and friends, thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                          Dear Harry and friends,

                          thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on
                          Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                          individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many
                          people will appreciate your work.

                          Your proposal for such a system also highlights that the Pali section
                          on Tipitaka.net is due for a better design. When the site moved to a
                          new server in December 2004, I started work on a new design for the
                          entire site. All the contents remain, but the navigational aids and
                          graphical components are being reworked. Some of the sections still
                          remain undone. This is mainly due to my work, and other commitments.
                          This year has also been quite an eventful one for me, running into
                          some problems here in Brisbane, Australia.

                          Apart from that, all are going fine. I have thought about a new
                          design for the Pali section, which will bring together all the Pali
                          resources in a useful manner. It will not be ready until the new
                          year, but I will let the group know when it is done.


                          metta,
                          Yong Peng.



                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                          This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                          organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from
                          linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe,
                          asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic
                          PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or
                          Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple
                          standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run
                          outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The
                          whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net
                          and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small
                          but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text
                          files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.
                        • Harry Liew
                          Dear Yong Peng, Thanks for your compliment. I am very much amazed by your selfless energy. You provide a very good living mirror for me to reflect on. Luckily
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                            Dear Yong Peng,

                            Thanks for your compliment.

                            I am very much amazed by your selfless energy. You provide a very good living mirror for me to reflect on. Luckily there are many many more among these Pali friends.

                            Thanks again for everything.

                            Metta,

                            Harry

                            Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry and friends,

                            thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on
                            Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                            individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many
                            people will appreciate your work.

                            Your proposal for such a system also highlights that the Pali section
                            on Tipitaka.net is due for a better design. When the site moved to a
                            new server in December 2004, I started work on a new design for the
                            entire site. All the contents remain, but the navigational aids and
                            graphical components are being reworked. Some of the sections still
                            remain undone. This is mainly due to my work, and other commitments.
                            This year has also been quite an eventful one for me, running into
                            some problems here in Brisbane, Australia.

                            Apart from that, all are going fine. I have thought about a new
                            design for the Pali section, which will bring together all the Pali
                            resources in a useful manner. It will not be ready until the new
                            year, but I will let the group know when it is done.


                            metta,
                            Yong Peng.



                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                            This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                            organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from
                            linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe,
                            asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic
                            PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or
                            Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple
                            standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run
                            outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The
                            whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net
                            and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small
                            but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text
                            files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.





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                            [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                            [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                            [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                          • Harry Liew
                            Dear Gurusinhas, and friends, Thank you for your feedback. Being not afraid to learn new languages through mistakes, your effort probably belongs to what I
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                              Dear Gurusinhas, and friends,

                              Thank you for your feedback. Being not afraid to learn new languages through mistakes, your effort probably belongs to what I understand as yoniso manasikara (??).

                              Pronunciation is indeed a very big problem for me. And probably for other beginners as well. Although the group has a file with 600 individually pronounced word clips, I still need to search for and to use Pali chantings as guide. My favourites are those downloaded from http://www.concentration.org/b_chants.htm. Pronunciation is distinct, neither fast nor slow, providing an ambience of stability, moving one slowly away from erratic high and low of emotional turmoil. Unfortunately, the amount of material is fairly limited.

                              Thanks for the information. (Please I still need your help.)

                              Metta,

                              Harry



                              gurusinha sena <gurusinhas@...> wrote: It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have good sound and clear pronunciation.

                              Harry Liew <harryliew66@...> wrote: Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                              Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                              Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                              Thanks.

                              Metta,

                              Harry





                              Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                              Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                              students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                              it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                              laptop).

                              You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                              but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                              When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                              the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                              metta,
                              Yong Peng.


                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                              I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                              learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                              http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                              for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                              don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                              people).





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                              [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                              [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                              [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                              [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                              [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
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                            • Harry Liew
                              Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners Dear Friends, The following had been done: 1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners

                                Dear Friends,

                                The following had been done:

                                1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta located at ww.geocities.com/paligroup had been included. Completely converted to Velthuis Scheme, re-sorted alphabetically, permitting easier search by using web browser's "Edit -> Find (on this Page)" function, without using special key board. (All pages are displayed by web browsers.)

                                2. Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar was downloaded from www.tipitaka.net/pali, and converted to Velthuis. To minimize transmission error,
                                extensive tabulation with provision for easier reading is employed by using the pdf file located at
                                www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/paligram.pdf as cross reference. However, the web pages grow enormously in size. For example, Chapter 10 is over 400 MB. The solution then is to split them into two, re-write and re-package the code. Now the first half of Chapter 10, originally over 200MB, is less tan 110 MB. There is no loss in quality. The end product is not only smaller in size but also more efficient as the demand for computer resources is smaller.

                                3. Dhammapada seems to be very popular among the group, based on threads from the [dsg]. There is still quite a bit of real estate vacancy on the common navigation page. It may be incoporated in this version if the materials are available (with permission from owners/authors). Connie seems to like it very much and have access to a very large collection of translated materials http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/message/52941).

                                Please provide feedback. The old copy built for personal usage is temporarily housed at a free site: http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm for better feedback. It will be removed when a more user friendly one is completed,
                                hopefully in another 2 weeks or so. Then it will be dedicated and offered to the Pali study group as a thankyou for their anonymous generosity and assistance in learning Pali.

                                Thankyou.

                                Metta,

                                Harry



                                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
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                              • davco123
                                Harry, I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or encoding to correctly
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                  Harry,

                                  I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my
                                  browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or
                                  encoding to correctly display the pages?

                                  Thank you,

                                  David Cohen




                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew <harryliew66@y...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners
                                  >
                                  > Dear Friends,
                                  >
                                  > The following had been done:
                                  >
                                  > 1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta
                                  located at ww.geocities.com/paligroup had been included. Completely
                                  converted to Velthuis Scheme, re-sorted alphabetically, permitting
                                  easier search by using web browser's "Edit -> Find (on this Page)"
                                  function, without using special key board. (All pages are displayed by
                                  web browsers.)
                                  >
                                  > 2. Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar was downloaded from www.
                                  tipitaka.net/pali, and converted to Velthuis. To minimize
                                  transmission error,
                                  > extensive tabulation with provision for easier reading is employed
                                  by using the pdf file located at
                                  > www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/paligram.pdf as cross reference.
                                  However, the web pages grow enormously in size. For example, Chapter
                                  10 is over 400 MB. The solution then is to split them into two, re-
                                  write and re-package the code. Now the first half of Chapter 10,
                                  originally over 200MB, is less tan 110 MB. There is no loss in
                                  quality. The end product is not only smaller in size but also more
                                  efficient as the demand for computer resources is smaller.
                                  >
                                  > 3. Dhammapada seems to be very popular among the group, based on
                                  threads from the [dsg]. There is still quite a bit of real estate
                                  vacancy on the common navigation page. It may be incoporated in this
                                  version if the materials are available (with permission from owners/
                                  authors). Connie seems to like it very much and have access to a very
                                  large collection of translated materials http://groups.yahoo.com/
                                  group/dhammastudygroup/message/52941).
                                  >
                                  > Please provide feedback. The old copy built for personal usage is
                                  temporarily housed at a free site: http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/
                                  learnpali/index.htm for better feedback. It will be removed when a
                                  more user friendly one is completed,
                                  > hopefully in another 2 weeks or so. Then it will be dedicated and
                                  offered to the Pali study group as a thankyou for their anonymous
                                  generosity and assistance in learning Pali.
                                  >
                                  > Thankyou.
                                  >
                                  > Metta,
                                  >
                                  > Harry
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                  > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                  > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                  > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                  > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                                  digest or web only.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Harry Liew
                                  Dear David, and friends, Thank you very very much for your feedback. You question reminds me of the very intense frustrations following download of the Pali
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 21, 2005
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                                    Dear David, and friends,
                                    Thank you very very much for your feedback.
                                    You question reminds me of the very intense frustrations following download of the Pali study materials recently.

                                    Those semi-processed web pages at the temporary website were mainly downloaded from Yong Peng's Tipitaka.net website and the group Yahoo website. The initial problem in trying to learn Pali was not frustration in learning to read forward, waiting patiently and interpreting backward (and forward again) by linking various words by grammatical rules, but in dealing with numerous fonts and searching for them (proprietary is one reason). And with a recent computer degree. :-(
                                    The problems that you mentioned are very tough to solve. Hence, there is a group effort at the moment to create a Unicode font (Project Pali Scope: Unicode fonts). Yong Peng is doing the planning at the moment.
                                    In order to make those materials user friendly, presently the study materials are been converted under 100% Velthuis Scheme, allowing a basic PC or laptop to utilize basic fonts such as Arial. Another problem is shifting of field values from one column to another, especially on printing transmission. And a beginner isn't aware of it. In order to minimize them, extensive tabulation is used, which is time consuming. Hopefully, in another 2 weeks, "converted" study materials will replace the old ones.
                                    Thanks again for your feedback. It means the present process in presenting those study materials in a more coherent user friendly manner is worthwhile. Your email is very encouraging. May all merits in this process go to members of the Pali study group who have contribute so much anonymously in helping beginners. (No, this beginner don't want any. Want to give them away, to the contributors, to all, in all directions.)
                                    Please write. Off list, if you wish. Perhaps you may wish to have a look at these presently re-processed materials under Velthuis and input invaluable ideas to make them more friendly to end users - which your present email has done. (This puthujjana house builder won’t know, and my PC doesn’t know either now that it has almost every font from a to z.:-))
                                    Warmest thank you.
                                    Harry


                                    davco123 <davco123@...> wrote: Harry,

                                    I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my
                                    browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or
                                    encoding to correctly display the pages?

                                    Thank you,

                                    David Cohen




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                                    [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
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                                  • Harry Liew
                                    Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners Dear Friends, Coversion of Charles Duroiselle s Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to Chapter 10. The
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                      Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners

                                      Dear Friends,

                                      Coversion of Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to Chapter 10. The converted files would utilize the following fonts:
                                      Comic Sans MS, arial, helvetica, and sans-serif.

                                      Chapter 10, in 3 files, has been uploaded at http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/chpt10_1.htm for feedback. During conversion, prefixes and roots were mined simultaneously into 2 more files which may be checked at above url. The rest of the book contains further prefixes and roots which may mine further. This simple application should be completed on schedule.

                                      Please provide suggestions on design, stability, ease of reading, and others. Please include basic information on your computer such as operating system (win98, XP, Linux, etc) and installation of special fonts (Yes or No only).

                                      Thank you.

                                      Metta,

                                      Harry


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                                    • Nina van Gorkom
                                      Dear Harry, thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts. I
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                        Dear Harry,
                                        thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole
                                        sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts.
                                        I just looked, but I am overloaded with other work.
                                        Nina.
                                        op 25-12-2005 12:06 schreef Harry Liew op harryliew66@...:

                                        > Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners
                                        >
                                        > Coversion of Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to
                                        > Chapter 10. The converted files would utilize the following fonts:
                                        > Comic Sans MS, arial, helvetica, and sans-serif.
                                      • Harry Liew
                                        Dear Nina, Thank you. I realize the mistake - absolute measurement instead of percentage. Please don t worry about font. This conversion to Velthuis is meant
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                          Dear Nina,

                                          Thank you.

                                          I realize the mistake - absolute measurement instead of percentage.

                                          Please don't worry about font. This conversion to Velthuis is meant to forget about special font usage.

                                          Thanks again for your thought on directed thought.

                                          Metta,

                                          Harry

                                          Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote: Dear Harry,
                                          thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole
                                          sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts.
                                          I just looked, but I am overloaded with other work.
                                          Nina.


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                                        • Harry Liew
                                          Dear Friends, Work for the Pali Content Management System in Velthuis Scheme for beginners is completed. It is a desktop organizer meant for offline browsing
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                            Dear Friends,

                                            Work for the Pali Content Management System in Velthuis Scheme for beginners is completed.

                                            It is a desktop organizer meant for offline browsing without installation.

                                            All listed study material is accessable from a single page without loss of navigation. The zipped size is 1.72MB, taking about 5 minutes to download with a 56k modem. It has been uploaded to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/

                                            It started out as a crude file system for the the various downloaded materials for learning Pali. It is now dedicated as a thank-you to all members of the Pali group and kind authors in making these study materials available to seekers.

                                            Materials are from www.geocities.com/paligroup/, www.tipitaka.net/pali/, and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/.

                                            What it contains:
                                            1. Duroiselle's Pali grammar with 900+ tables,
                                            2. Buddhadatta's tabulated English - Pali Dict.,
                                            3. Combined tabulated Pali - English Dictionary (23291 terms, with some duplicates) with Buddhadatta's as the backbone, incorporating other vocab. materials from
                                            (a) Yong Peng's Pali Verbs.xls,
                                            (b) Dr de Silva's Pali.zip (Pali Primier),
                                            (c) John Kelly's Warder Vocab 1-22.zip,
                                            (d) Ven Narada's vocab from www.tipitaka.net/pali/pali.php?course=vocabpe.
                                            4. Complete Pali Verbs.xls in a printable web page,
                                            5. Grammer Terms,
                                            6. Yong Peng's Summary on Declensions and Conjugations,
                                            7. What is Pali,
                                            8. Questions and Answers by various Pali students for various books,
                                            9. An acknowledged open source text editor for doing exercises. (The spacing between the questions and answers has been increased so that answers may be 'hidden' in the next line below.)

                                            All tables have alternate rows in light mute colour (Thanks, Rett.)

                                            Thank you to all you for making this first step in learning Pali possible.

                                            Metta,

                                            Harry

                                            ps. The temporary website for testing has been dismantled (http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/). My apology for not including sound files because of sizes and download time.




                                            Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:
                                            You may still capture them individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many people will appreciate

                                            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                            Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                            [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                            [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                            [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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