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SV: Re: [Pali] Project Pali Scope: Unicode fonts

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  • Gunnar Gällmo
    ... Is there a Lao script? I thought the Lao language is written with Thai script. Gunnar
    Message 1 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      --- Walter Stanish <walter@...> skrev:

      > (Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but Burmese,
      > Khmer and Lao scripts
      > are perhaps still quite rare.

      Is there a Lao script? I thought the Lao language is
      written with Thai script.

      Gunnar
    • lighthisertim
      ... Hi, From the Unicode Standard : The Lao language and script are closely related to Thai. The Unicode Standard encodes the Lao script in the same relative
      Message 2 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
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        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Gunnar G�llmo <gunnargallmo@y...> wrote:
        > Is there a Lao script? I thought the Lao language is
        > written with Thai script.

        Hi,

        From the "Unicode Standard":

        The Lao language and script are closely related to Thai. The Unicode Standard encodes the
        Lao script in the same relative order as Thai. Lao contains fewer letters than Thai because
        by 1960 it was simplified to be fairly phonemic, while Thai maintains many etymological
        spellings that are homonyms. Regular word spacing is not used in Lao; spaces separate
        phrases or sentences instead. <http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/
        ch10.pdf>

        South Asian Scripts
        http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/ch9.pdf

        tl
      • Alan McClure
        ... Dear Gunnar, I ran into this: Lao alphabet Origin After the unification of the Lao principalities (meuang) in the 14th century, the Lan Xang monarchs
        Message 3 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
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          Gunnar Gällmo wrote:

          >--- Walter Stanish <walter@...> skrev:
          >
          >
          >
          >>(Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but Burmese,
          >>Khmer and Lao scripts
          >>are perhaps still quite rare.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >Is there a Lao script? I thought the Lao language is
          >written with Thai script.
          >
          >Gunnar
          >

          Dear Gunnar,

          I ran into this:

          "


          Lao alphabet


          Origin

          After the unification of the Lao principalities (meuang) in the 14th
          century, the Lan Xang monarchs commissioned their scholars to create a
          new script to write the Lao language. The scholars adapted an early
          version of the Thai script, which was developed from the Old Khmer
          script, which was itself based on Mon scripts. The modern Lao script
          retains many aspects of the appearance of the early Thai script which
          have disappeared from the modern Thai script
          <http://www.omniglot.com/writing/thai.htm>."

          From:
          http://www.omniglot.com/writing/lao.htm

          and also:
          http://www.laoscript.net/

          With metta,

          Alan
        • Walter Stanish
          In my experience trying to learn Lao after the Thai script few years ago, Lao contains many of the same consonants as Thai (however its total number of
          Message 4 of 30 , Dec 3, 2005
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            In my experience trying to learn Lao after the Thai script few years
            ago, Lao contains many of the same consonants as Thai (however its
            total number of consonants are fewer) and its script more clearly
            derived from leaf inscriptions, being significantly more rounded.

            As for vowels, the Lao language seems to have an order of magnitude
            more exotic-looking vowel combinations than Thai, which in my short
            experience was a more difficult challenge than anything else when
            learning the language.

            To clarify, I can't say I've 'learned' either script, though I can
            usually read place names and words I already know when seen in
            context in both countries. Hoping to improve, in time!


            - Walter, whose trip to Thailand is postponed, so is still online :)
          • Ong Yong Peng
            Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends, thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai
            Message 5 of 30 , Dec 6, 2005
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              Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends,

              thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply
              amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai script is now part of the
              standard installation for most computers. As I understand, there are
              more Pali resources in Sinhala or Burmese scripts than in Thai, Khmer
              or Laotian(?). Then, we have manuscripts in Gandhari and Brahmi.
              Lastly, there are the synthesised texts in Devanagari and Mongol
              scripts (as those found on CSCD).

              There may not yet be a single font containing all the scripts. To the
              best of my knowledge, there isn't even one that contains two of the
              scripts. However, with Unicode, we are looking at fonts incorporating
              the various scripts in the near future.

              Harry: thanks for your offer to help. I am still working out the
              plans for the project. And I shall let everyone know when it is ready.


              metta,
              Yong Peng.



              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Walter Stanish wrote:

              I believe that most systems these days have at least Thai Unicode
              fonts installed by default. (Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but
              Burmese, Khmer and Lao scripts are perhaps still quite rare. At
              least, none of them seem to be available as input options in my copy
              of (Chinese) Windows XP Pro.)

              Anyway, I'm sure there are Unicode fonts available for all of those
              scripts, see for example the Pali Rosetta Stone my friend Eisel
              Mazard has done and saved to PDF:

              http://pratyeka.org/pali/PaliRosettaStone.pdf
            • Harry Liew
              Dear Yong Peng, and friends, Thanks for the update. Happy to get this opportunity to be of any use. I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management
              Message 6 of 30 , Dec 6, 2005
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                Dear Yong Peng, and friends,

                Thanks for the update. Happy to get this opportunity to be of any use.

                I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you people).

                Beginning to learn Pali recently, and being a poor organiser, I have problems in finding the downloaded materials when needed. Or after flipping through a few web pages, checking through dictionary, grammar, etc, I have problem in finding home. This small application was therefore created in response to my premature senility :-).

                It may sit as a complete desktop application without installation and internet access. When fully zipped, it is about 1.5 MB.

                This is only a prototype which hopefully may become a group project, please... The code is very simple and small. ( 99.9% WYSIWYG)

                Thanks.

                Metta,

                Harry

                Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Walter, Harry, Gunnar, Alan, tl and friends,

                thanks for all the information. The Pali Rosetta Stone is simply
                amazing. It is great to learn that the Thai script is now part of the
                standard installation for most computers. As I understand, there are
                more Pali resources in Sinhala or Burmese scripts than in Thai, Khmer
                or Laotian(?). Then, we have manuscripts in Gandhari and Brahmi.
                Lastly, there are the synthesised texts in Devanagari and Mongol
                scripts (as those found on CSCD).

                There may not yet be a single font containing all the scripts. To the
                best of my knowledge, there isn't even one that contains two of the
                scripts. However, with Unicode, we are looking at fonts incorporating
                the various scripts in the near future.

                Harry: thanks for your offer to help. I am still working out the
                plans for the project. And I shall let everyone know when it is ready.


                metta,
                Yong Peng.



                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Walter Stanish wrote:

                I believe that most systems these days have at least Thai Unicode
                fonts installed by default. (Sinhalese and Lao I'm unsure about, but
                Burmese, Khmer and Lao scripts are perhaps still quite rare. At
                least, none of them seem to be available as input options in my copy
                of (Chinese) Windows XP Pro.)

                Anyway, I'm sure there are Unicode fonts available for all of those
                scripts, see for example the Pali Rosetta Stone my friend Eisel
                Mazard has done and saved to PDF:

                http://pratyeka.org/pali/PaliRosettaStone.pdf





                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



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              • Ong Yong Peng
                Dear Harry, Connie and friends, Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would
                Message 7 of 30 , Dec 9, 2005
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                  Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                  Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                  students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                  it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                  laptop).

                  You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                  but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                  When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                  the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.


                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                  I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                  learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                  http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                  for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                  don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                  people).
                • Harry Liew
                  Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends, Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to
                  Message 8 of 30 , Dec 9, 2005
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                    Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                    Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                    Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                    Thanks.

                    Metta,

                    Harry





                    Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                    Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                    students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                    it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                    laptop).

                    You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                    but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                    When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                    the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                    metta,
                    Yong Peng.


                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                    I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                    learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                    http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                    for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                    don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                    people).





                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                    [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                    [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                    ---------------------------------
                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                    Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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                  • Ong Yong Peng
                    Dear Harry, Connie and friends, please take note, Harry, 1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt System (or software). It is only my
                    Message 9 of 30 , Dec 10, 2005
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                      Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                      please take note, Harry,

                      1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                      System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                      I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                      runs outside the standard browser?

                      2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                      proposed software:

                      (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                      the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                      cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                      (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                      can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                      the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                      have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                      include them in your proposed software.


                      metta,
                      Yong Peng.


                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                      Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                      know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                      crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                      user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                      doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                      you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                      please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                      happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                      Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                      study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                      for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                      progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                      supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                      project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                      S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                      > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                      > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                      > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                      > laptop).
                      >
                      > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                      > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                      > use.
                      >
                      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                      > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm
                    • Harry Liew
                      Dear Yong Peng, Connie and friends, Yong Peng, thanks for your very helpful feedback. This software is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                      Message 10 of 30 , Dec 10, 2005
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                        Dear Yong Peng, Connie and friends,

                        Yong Peng, thanks for your very helpful feedback.

                        This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe, asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.

                        The initial intention is a throw-away personal organizer for a specific purpose - learning Pali. However, on second thought it might be useful for other beginners as well. Therefore the present intention is for the group to take full ownership of the whole project if materialized, and all versions, including future versions for an intermediate and an advance level Pali study, depending on the needs of the members. Hopefully a senior member nominated by the group will examine it, take charge of it if it is of any use, and provide a legitimate platform for further development - my role is strictly a voluntary technician. As owner, the group has full right to do whatever it wants with it.

                        To reiterate, the present prototype was developed for my own use as a beginner in Pali study for ease of navigation and access to the various downloaded study materials for learning Pali as permitted by compassionate owners and authors of those study materials. I have no intention to develop it further other than a thrownaway temporary study tool unless the group thinks otherwise. (Planned version for intermediate level is meant for personal usage in learning Pali. As for advance version, ........not sure.... :-) .)

                        Thank you for your kindness and your effort.

                        Metta,

                        Harry




                        Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:

                        Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                        please take note, Harry,

                        1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                        System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                        I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                        runs outside the standard browser?

                        2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                        proposed software:

                        (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                        the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                        cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                        (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                        can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                        the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                        have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                        include them in your proposed software.


                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                        Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                        know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                        crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                        user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                        doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                        you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                        please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                        happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                        Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                        study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                        for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                        progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                        supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                        project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                        S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                        > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                        > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                        > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                        > laptop).
                        >
                        > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                        > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                        > use.
                        >
                        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                        > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm






                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                        [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                        [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                        [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                        Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                        SPONSORED LINKS
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                        Tibetan buddhism Zen buddhism

                        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                        * Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

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                        Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                        please take note, Harry,

                        1. this is not an endorsement of your proposed Pali Content Mgt
                        System (or software). It is only my opinion that it is a good idea.

                        I have no idea what you are doing, is it going to be a software that
                        runs outside the standard browser?

                        2. the general rule in terms of materials you can incorporate in your
                        proposed software:

                        (a) Tipitaka.net -- unless otherwise specified, you are free to use
                        the materials on the site, on the condition that you do not charge a
                        cost to others. Please check individual page for details.

                        (b) www.geocities.com/paligroup/ -- unless otherwise specified, you
                        can only use the materials as they are originally designed. Some of
                        the materials are made available for the purpose of study only. You
                        have to obtain permission from respective COPYRIGHT OWNERS before you
                        include them in your proposed software.


                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.


                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                        Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me
                        know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it
                        crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and
                        user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it
                        doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever
                        you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything,
                        please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are
                        happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                        Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include
                        study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan
                        for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time
                        progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's
                        supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the
                        project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do.
                        S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....


                        > Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                        > students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                        > it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                        > laptop).
                        >
                        > You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from
                        > Tipitaka.net, but please indicate the source of the materials you
                        > use.
                        >
                        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:
                        > http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm






                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                        [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                        [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                        [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                        Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                        SPONSORED LINKS
                        Pali Theravada buddhism Beyond belief Tibetan buddhism Zen buddhism

                        ---------------------------------
                        YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                        Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                        To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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                        ---------------------------------






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                      • gurusinha sena
                        It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book Teach Yourself Pali in English have good sound and
                        Message 11 of 30 , Dec 11, 2005
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                          It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have good sound and clear pronunciation.

                          Harry Liew <harryliew66@...> wrote: Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                          Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                          Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                          Thanks.

                          Metta,

                          Harry





                          Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                          Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                          students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                          it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                          laptop).

                          You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                          but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                          When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                          the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                          metta,
                          Yong Peng.


                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                          I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                          learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                          http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                          for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                          don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                          people).





                          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                          [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                          [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                          [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                          Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.



                          ---------------------------------
                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                          Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                          Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                          ---------------------------------






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                          Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

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                          - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                          Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                          [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                          [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                          [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                        • Ong Yong Peng
                          Dear friends, the SBMC website: http://www.buddhist-book.com/ In the past, SBMC has published many quality books, such as the Illustrated Light of Asia, and
                          Message 12 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                            Dear friends,

                            the SBMC website: http://www.buddhist-book.com/

                            In the past, SBMC has published many quality books, such as the
                            Illustrated Light of Asia, and the Illustrated Dhammapada (now
                            available in PDF from Buddhanet). Not to mentioned to long awaited
                            Illustrated Jataka Tales, which is due to be published anytime.

                            I am not sure about the CD-ROM, but is interested to obtain a copy.
                            Anyone with more information? Thanks.

                            metta,
                            Yong Peng.


                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, gurusinha sena wrote:

                            It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I
                            check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have
                            good sound and clear pronunciation.
                          • Ong Yong Peng
                            Dear Harry and friends, thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                            Message 13 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                              Dear Harry and friends,

                              thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on
                              Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                              individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many
                              people will appreciate your work.

                              Your proposal for such a system also highlights that the Pali section
                              on Tipitaka.net is due for a better design. When the site moved to a
                              new server in December 2004, I started work on a new design for the
                              entire site. All the contents remain, but the navigational aids and
                              graphical components are being reworked. Some of the sections still
                              remain undone. This is mainly due to my work, and other commitments.
                              This year has also been quite an eventful one for me, running into
                              some problems here in Brisbane, Australia.

                              Apart from that, all are going fine. I have thought about a new
                              design for the Pali section, which will bring together all the Pali
                              resources in a useful manner. It will not be ready until the new
                              year, but I will let the group know when it is done.


                              metta,
                              Yong Peng.



                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                              This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                              organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from
                              linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe,
                              asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic
                              PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or
                              Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple
                              standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run
                              outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The
                              whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net
                              and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small
                              but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text
                              files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.
                            • Harry Liew
                              Dear Yong Peng, Thanks for your compliment. I am very much amazed by your selfless energy. You provide a very good living mirror for me to reflect on. Luckily
                              Message 14 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                                Dear Yong Peng,

                                Thanks for your compliment.

                                I am very much amazed by your selfless energy. You provide a very good living mirror for me to reflect on. Luckily there are many many more among these Pali friends.

                                Thanks again for everything.

                                Metta,

                                Harry

                                Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry and friends,

                                thanks. I have a better picture now. However, many of the pages on
                                Tipitaka.net are served by PHP scripts. You may still capture them
                                individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many
                                people will appreciate your work.

                                Your proposal for such a system also highlights that the Pali section
                                on Tipitaka.net is due for a better design. When the site moved to a
                                new server in December 2004, I started work on a new design for the
                                entire site. All the contents remain, but the navigational aids and
                                graphical components are being reworked. Some of the sections still
                                remain undone. This is mainly due to my work, and other commitments.
                                This year has also been quite an eventful one for me, running into
                                some problems here in Brisbane, Australia.

                                Apart from that, all are going fine. I have thought about a new
                                design for the Pali section, which will bring together all the Pali
                                resources in a useful manner. It will not be ready until the new
                                year, but I will let the group know when it is done.


                                metta,
                                Yong Peng.



                                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                                This 'software' is a collections of linked throw-away web pages
                                organized in different folders for ease of maintenance. Apart from
                                linked html files and textfiles, there is nothing else (no .exe,
                                asp, php, and so on). No installation is needed. Apart from a basic
                                PC or laptop with a web browser such as Internet Explorer or
                                Firefox, no other supporting software is needed. It is a very simple
                                standalone, with one common interface for all files, does not run
                                outside a web browser, and does not require internet access. The
                                whole program contains study materials downloaded from Tipitaka.net
                                and www.geocities.com/paligroup/ organized in the form of a small
                                but fully functional local desktop 'website' with html and text
                                files only. A localhost or web server is not needed.





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                                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                              • Harry Liew
                                Dear Gurusinhas, and friends, Thank you for your feedback. Being not afraid to learn new languages through mistakes, your effort probably belongs to what I
                                Message 15 of 30 , Dec 12, 2005
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                                  Dear Gurusinhas, and friends,

                                  Thank you for your feedback. Being not afraid to learn new languages through mistakes, your effort probably belongs to what I understand as yoniso manasikara (??).

                                  Pronunciation is indeed a very big problem for me. And probably for other beginners as well. Although the group has a file with 600 individually pronounced word clips, I still need to search for and to use Pali chantings as guide. My favourites are those downloaded from http://www.concentration.org/b_chants.htm. Pronunciation is distinct, neither fast nor slow, providing an ambience of stability, moving one slowly away from erratic high and low of emotional turmoil. Unfortunately, the amount of material is fairly limited.

                                  Thanks for the information. (Please I still need your help.)

                                  Metta,

                                  Harry



                                  gurusinha sena <gurusinhas@...> wrote: It will be very useful for future studies. If you can add sound too. I check SBMC Pali CD ROM e-book "Teach Yourself Pali in English" have good sound and clear pronunciation.

                                  Harry Liew <harryliew66@...> wrote: Dear Nina, Connie, Yong Peng, and friends,

                                  Connie, Yong Peng has just given me the green light. Please let me know how to fulfill your request. Please try to push it until it crashes. A software is not a good software if it is not stable and user friendly. But the problem is : the person who creates it doesn't know. Besides this writer is very poor in design. Whatever you are not happy with, stability or navigation or.. anything, please yell. It will be re-done until the end users or you are happy. Then it may become a useful software.

                                  Yong Peng, thanks for your kindness. Does the green light include study materials from www.geocities.com/paligroup/ ? There is a plan for a separate intermediate and an advance level versions as time progresses. I hope to develop it further under the group's supervison and guidance. But I won't and don't want to be the project manager. Any senior member nominated by the group will do. S/he doesn't have to be a techie. Please .....

                                  Thanks.

                                  Metta,

                                  Harry





                                  Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote: Dear Harry, Connie and friends,

                                  Harry, I agree with Connie it is a useful software tool for Pali
                                  students. I am sure beginners and advance students alike would find
                                  it handy to have the Pali solutions sitting on their desktop (or
                                  laptop).

                                  You are welcomed to incorporate the Pali solutions from Tipitaka.net,
                                  but please indicate the source of the materials you use.

                                  When you have the program ready, you may also like to upload it to
                                  the Files section on the group's Yahoo! page.


                                  metta,
                                  Yong Peng.


                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew wrote:

                                  I have just uploaded a small and simple Content Management Sytem for
                                  learning Pali (beginner) for Nina to have a look.
                                  http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm . It is there
                                  for testing and will be taken down in the next few days because I
                                  don't want to be sued by by the owners and authors (i.e. you
                                  people).





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                                  [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                  [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                  [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                                  [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                  [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                                  [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                  [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
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                                • Harry Liew
                                  Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners Dear Friends, The following had been done: 1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Dec 19, 2005
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                                    Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners

                                    Dear Friends,

                                    The following had been done:

                                    1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta located at ww.geocities.com/paligroup had been included. Completely converted to Velthuis Scheme, re-sorted alphabetically, permitting easier search by using web browser's "Edit -> Find (on this Page)" function, without using special key board. (All pages are displayed by web browsers.)

                                    2. Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar was downloaded from www.tipitaka.net/pali, and converted to Velthuis. To minimize transmission error,
                                    extensive tabulation with provision for easier reading is employed by using the pdf file located at
                                    www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/paligram.pdf as cross reference. However, the web pages grow enormously in size. For example, Chapter 10 is over 400 MB. The solution then is to split them into two, re-write and re-package the code. Now the first half of Chapter 10, originally over 200MB, is less tan 110 MB. There is no loss in quality. The end product is not only smaller in size but also more efficient as the demand for computer resources is smaller.

                                    3. Dhammapada seems to be very popular among the group, based on threads from the [dsg]. There is still quite a bit of real estate vacancy on the common navigation page. It may be incoporated in this version if the materials are available (with permission from owners/authors). Connie seems to like it very much and have access to a very large collection of translated materials http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dhammastudygroup/message/52941).

                                    Please provide feedback. The old copy built for personal usage is temporarily housed at a free site: http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/index.htm for better feedback. It will be removed when a more user friendly one is completed,
                                    hopefully in another 2 weeks or so. Then it will be dedicated and offered to the Pali study group as a thankyou for their anonymous generosity and assistance in learning Pali.

                                    Thankyou.

                                    Metta,

                                    Harry



                                    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                    Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                    [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                    [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
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                                  • davco123
                                    Harry, I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or encoding to correctly
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Dec 20, 2005
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                                      Harry,

                                      I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my
                                      browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or
                                      encoding to correctly display the pages?

                                      Thank you,

                                      David Cohen




                                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Harry Liew <harryliew66@y...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Update on desktop Content Mgt Sytem for beginners
                                      >
                                      > Dear Friends,
                                      >
                                      > The following had been done:
                                      >
                                      > 1. Dictionary: The newer bigger Pali - English Dict by Buddhadatta
                                      located at ww.geocities.com/paligroup had been included. Completely
                                      converted to Velthuis Scheme, re-sorted alphabetically, permitting
                                      easier search by using web browser's "Edit -> Find (on this Page)"
                                      function, without using special key board. (All pages are displayed by
                                      web browsers.)
                                      >
                                      > 2. Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar was downloaded from www.
                                      tipitaka.net/pali, and converted to Velthuis. To minimize
                                      transmission error,
                                      > extensive tabulation with provision for easier reading is employed
                                      by using the pdf file located at
                                      > www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/paligram.pdf as cross reference.
                                      However, the web pages grow enormously in size. For example, Chapter
                                      10 is over 400 MB. The solution then is to split them into two, re-
                                      write and re-package the code. Now the first half of Chapter 10,
                                      originally over 200MB, is less tan 110 MB. There is no loss in
                                      quality. The end product is not only smaller in size but also more
                                      efficient as the demand for computer resources is smaller.
                                      >
                                      > 3. Dhammapada seems to be very popular among the group, based on
                                      threads from the [dsg]. There is still quite a bit of real estate
                                      vacancy on the common navigation page. It may be incoporated in this
                                      version if the materials are available (with permission from owners/
                                      authors). Connie seems to like it very much and have access to a very
                                      large collection of translated materials http://groups.yahoo.com/
                                      group/dhammastudygroup/message/52941).
                                      >
                                      > Please provide feedback. The old copy built for personal usage is
                                      temporarily housed at a free site: http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/
                                      learnpali/index.htm for better feedback. It will be removed when a
                                      more user friendly one is completed,
                                      > hopefully in another 2 weeks or so. Then it will be dedicated and
                                      offered to the Pali study group as a thankyou for their anonymous
                                      generosity and assistance in learning Pali.
                                      >
                                      > Thankyou.
                                      >
                                      > Metta,
                                      >
                                      > Harry
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                      > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                      > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                                      digest or web only.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > SPONSORED LINKS
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                                      Beyond belief
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                                      >
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                                      >
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                                      Service.
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                                    • Harry Liew
                                      Dear David, and friends, Thank you very very much for your feedback. You question reminds me of the very intense frustrations following download of the Pali
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Dec 21, 2005
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                                        Dear David, and friends,
                                        Thank you very very much for your feedback.
                                        You question reminds me of the very intense frustrations following download of the Pali study materials recently.

                                        Those semi-processed web pages at the temporary website were mainly downloaded from Yong Peng's Tipitaka.net website and the group Yahoo website. The initial problem in trying to learn Pali was not frustration in learning to read forward, waiting patiently and interpreting backward (and forward again) by linking various words by grammatical rules, but in dealing with numerous fonts and searching for them (proprietary is one reason). And with a recent computer degree. :-(
                                        The problems that you mentioned are very tough to solve. Hence, there is a group effort at the moment to create a Unicode font (Project Pali Scope: Unicode fonts). Yong Peng is doing the planning at the moment.
                                        In order to make those materials user friendly, presently the study materials are been converted under 100% Velthuis Scheme, allowing a basic PC or laptop to utilize basic fonts such as Arial. Another problem is shifting of field values from one column to another, especially on printing transmission. And a beginner isn't aware of it. In order to minimize them, extensive tabulation is used, which is time consuming. Hopefully, in another 2 weeks, "converted" study materials will replace the old ones.
                                        Thanks again for your feedback. It means the present process in presenting those study materials in a more coherent user friendly manner is worthwhile. Your email is very encouraging. May all merits in this process go to members of the Pali study group who have contribute so much anonymously in helping beginners. (No, this beginner don't want any. Want to give them away, to the contributors, to all, in all directions.)
                                        Please write. Off list, if you wish. Perhaps you may wish to have a look at these presently re-processed materials under Velthuis and input invaluable ideas to make them more friendly to end users - which your present email has done. (This puthujjana house builder won’t know, and my PC doesn’t know either now that it has almost every font from a to z.:-))
                                        Warmest thank you.
                                        Harry


                                        davco123 <davco123@...> wrote: Harry,

                                        I am having difficulties to display correctly these pages in my
                                        browsers. Could you please tell me if I need a specific font or
                                        encoding to correctly display the pages?

                                        Thank you,

                                        David Cohen




                                        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                        Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                        [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                        [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                        [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                                      • Harry Liew
                                        Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners Dear Friends, Coversion of Charles Duroiselle s Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to Chapter 10. The
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                          Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners

                                          Dear Friends,

                                          Coversion of Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to Chapter 10. The converted files would utilize the following fonts:
                                          Comic Sans MS, arial, helvetica, and sans-serif.

                                          Chapter 10, in 3 files, has been uploaded at http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/chpt10_1.htm for feedback. During conversion, prefixes and roots were mined simultaneously into 2 more files which may be checked at above url. The rest of the book contains further prefixes and roots which may mine further. This simple application should be completed on schedule.

                                          Please provide suggestions on design, stability, ease of reading, and others. Please include basic information on your computer such as operating system (win98, XP, Linux, etc) and installation of special fonts (Yes or No only).

                                          Thank you.

                                          Metta,

                                          Harry


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                                        • Nina van Gorkom
                                          Dear Harry, thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts. I
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                            Dear Harry,
                                            thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole
                                            sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts.
                                            I just looked, but I am overloaded with other work.
                                            Nina.
                                            op 25-12-2005 12:06 schreef Harry Liew op harryliew66@...:

                                            > Update on Pali Content Mgt System for beginners
                                            >
                                            > Coversion of Charles Duroiselle's Pali Grammar with tabulation has gone up to
                                            > Chapter 10. The converted files would utilize the following fonts:
                                            > Comic Sans MS, arial, helvetica, and sans-serif.
                                          • Harry Liew
                                            Dear Nina, Thank you. I realize the mistake - absolute measurement instead of percentage. Please don t worry about font. This conversion to Velthuis is meant
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Dec 25, 2005
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                                              Dear Nina,

                                              Thank you.

                                              I realize the mistake - absolute measurement instead of percentage.

                                              Please don't worry about font. This conversion to Velthuis is meant to forget about special font usage.

                                              Thanks again for your thought on directed thought.

                                              Metta,

                                              Harry

                                              Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote: Dear Harry,
                                              thanks, but on my iMac my field is not broad enough to read the whole
                                              sentence. However, I am no good at conversion, or doing something to fonts.
                                              I just looked, but I am overloaded with other work.
                                              Nina.


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                                              Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                              [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                              [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                              [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                                            • Harry Liew
                                              Dear Friends, Work for the Pali Content Management System in Velthuis Scheme for beginners is completed. It is a desktop organizer meant for offline browsing
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Jan 30, 2006
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                                                Dear Friends,

                                                Work for the Pali Content Management System in Velthuis Scheme for beginners is completed.

                                                It is a desktop organizer meant for offline browsing without installation.

                                                All listed study material is accessable from a single page without loss of navigation. The zipped size is 1.72MB, taking about 5 minutes to download with a 56k modem. It has been uploaded to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files/

                                                It started out as a crude file system for the the various downloaded materials for learning Pali. It is now dedicated as a thank-you to all members of the Pali group and kind authors in making these study materials available to seekers.

                                                Materials are from www.geocities.com/paligroup/, www.tipitaka.net/pali/, and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/.

                                                What it contains:
                                                1. Duroiselle's Pali grammar with 900+ tables,
                                                2. Buddhadatta's tabulated English - Pali Dict.,
                                                3. Combined tabulated Pali - English Dictionary (23291 terms, with some duplicates) with Buddhadatta's as the backbone, incorporating other vocab. materials from
                                                (a) Yong Peng's Pali Verbs.xls,
                                                (b) Dr de Silva's Pali.zip (Pali Primier),
                                                (c) John Kelly's Warder Vocab 1-22.zip,
                                                (d) Ven Narada's vocab from www.tipitaka.net/pali/pali.php?course=vocabpe.
                                                4. Complete Pali Verbs.xls in a printable web page,
                                                5. Grammer Terms,
                                                6. Yong Peng's Summary on Declensions and Conjugations,
                                                7. What is Pali,
                                                8. Questions and Answers by various Pali students for various books,
                                                9. An acknowledged open source text editor for doing exercises. (The spacing between the questions and answers has been increased so that answers may be 'hidden' in the next line below.)

                                                All tables have alternate rows in light mute colour (Thanks, Rett.)

                                                Thank you to all you for making this first step in learning Pali possible.

                                                Metta,

                                                Harry

                                                ps. The temporary website for testing has been dismantled (http://free.hostdepartment.com/l/learnpali/). My apology for not including sound files because of sizes and download time.




                                                Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> wrote:
                                                You may still capture them individually and save them all for offline viewing. I am sure many people will appreciate

                                                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                                Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                                [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                                Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.




                                                ---------------------------------
                                                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


                                                Visit your group "Pali" on the web.

                                                To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


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