Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

SV: [Pali] most common words?

Expand Messages
  • Ole Holten Pind
    Hi, There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,

      There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be
      interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
      instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
      Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is a
      Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well over
      26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about 160
      quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined philologist
      would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the two
      vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial position
      in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
      indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is dubious to
      say the very least.

      Regards,

      Ole Pind

      _____

      Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Clay
      Collier
      Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
      Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
      Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?


      Hi Stephen-
      I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
      years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
      project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
      classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
      texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
      frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
      a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull out
      of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
      particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
      compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
      additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
      is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
      some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
      not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages. Any
      linguists have any insight to offer?

      Clay Collier

      On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Friends,
      >
      > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words,
      > I
      > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
      > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
      > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
      > difficulty
      > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
      > words
      > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
      > be
      > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
      >
      > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
      >
      > Best wishes,
      > Stephen Hodge
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
      > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
      > web only.
      >
      >
      >
      > SPONSORED LINKS
      > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
      eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
      &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
      &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
      Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
      Theravada
      > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
      +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
      hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
      &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
      on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
      4nXQuJGw> Beyond
      > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
      hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
      c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
      &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
      liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
      P5Q> Mormon
      > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
      dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
      &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
      &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
      eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
      7lEg> Tibetan
      > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
      uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
      sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
      &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
      +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
      iYfSbg> Zen
      > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
      ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
      =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
      &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
      iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
      NA>
      > ------------------------------
      > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
      >
      >
      > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>" on
      > the web.
      > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >
      Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Un
      subscribe>
      > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
      > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



      - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
      [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
      [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
      [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
      Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
      only.



      _____

      YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



      * Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> " on
      the web.


      * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      <mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


      * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
      <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


      _____




      <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=41764&pa
      rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ole Holten Pind
      Dear Dmytro, Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
      • 0 Attachment
        Dear Dmytro,

        Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be
        the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.

        Best regards,

        Ole Pind

        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Dmytro
        A. Ivakhnenko
        Sendt: 3. november 2005 09:59
        Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?

        Hello James,

        > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most common words in the
        > Pali Canon" .
        > is there such a list?

        Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread
        http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

        Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
        occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
        Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

        This approach can be an instrument of determining the relative age of Pali
        texts.

        Regards,
        Dmytro


        ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
        Click here to rescue a little child from a life of poverty.
        http://us.click.yahoo.com/rAWabB/gYnLAA/i1hLAA/b0VolB/TM
        --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

        - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Paa.li-Parisaa
        - The Pali Collective [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net [Files]
        http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
        [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
        Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
        only.
        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • libris
        The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism. What is the
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
        • 0 Attachment
          The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

          What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

          Sukhi,

          Piya

          --- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:

          > Hi,
          >
          > There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
          > might be
          > interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
          > Take, for
          > instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
          > Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
          > a
          > Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
          > over
          > 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
          > 160
          > quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
          > philologist
          > would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
          > two
          > vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
          > position
          > in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
          > indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
          > dubious to
          > say the very least.
          >
          > Regards,
          >
          > Ole Pind
          >
          > _____
          >
          > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
          > Clay
          > Collier
          > Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
          > Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
          >
          >
          > Hi Stephen-
          > I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
          > over the
          > years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
          > a
          > project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
          > on
          > classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
          > incomplete
          > texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
          > character/letter
          > frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
          > there is
          > a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
          > pull out
          > of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
          > what a
          > particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
          > compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
          > have an
          > additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
          > given text
          > is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
          > given
          > some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
          > useful or
          > not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
          > languages. Any
          > linguists have any insight to offer?
          >
          > Clay Collier
          >
          > On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > Dear Friends,
          > >
          > > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
          > words,
          > > I
          > > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
          > Has a
          > > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
          > word
          > > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
          > > difficulty
          > > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
          > the
          > > words
          > > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
          > could
          > > be
          > > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
          > frequency
          > >
          > > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
          > >
          > > Best wishes,
          > > Stephen Hodge
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
          > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
          > digest or
          > > web only.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > SPONSORED LINKS
          > > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
          > eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
          > &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
          > &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
          > Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
          > Theravada
          > > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
          > +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
          > hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
          > &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
          > on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
          > 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
          > > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
          > hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
          > c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
          > &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
          > liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
          > P5Q> Mormon
          > > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
          > dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
          > &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
          > &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
          > eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
          > 7lEg> Tibetan
          > > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
          > uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
          > sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
          > &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
          > +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
          > iYfSbg> Zen
          > > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
          > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
          > ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
          > =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
          > &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
          > iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
          > NA>
          > > ------------------------------
          > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          > >
          > >
          > > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>"
          > on
          > > the web.
          > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > >
          > Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Un
          > subscribe>
          > > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------
          > >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
          > or web
          > only.
          >
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
          >
          >
          >
          > * Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> " on
          > the web.
          >
          >
          > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > <mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
          >
          >
          > * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
          > Service
          > <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
          >
          >
          > _____
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=41764&pa
          > rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
          > --------------------~-->
          > Click here to rescue a little child from a life of poverty.
          > http://us.click.yahoo.com/rAWabB/gYnLAA/i1hLAA/b0VolB/TM
          > --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
          > or web only.
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • rett
          Hi Piya and group. I don t have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Piya and group.

            I don't have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it has been called into question. But I can perhaps respond to a few parts of your question.

            >The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

            That's interesting. Geiger/Norman §82.3 identify the /-e/ ending form as a Magadhism. Final /e/ where we would expect /o/ is typical of the words considered Magadhisms.


            >What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

            As I understand it, no. Magadhisms would be forms dating already from the period when the Buddha was teaching. The idea is that the Pali as we know it is a different, probably later, dialect than the one in which the Buddha taught, but that certain old forms were retained for various reasons.

            The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the dialect now called Pali.

            In the samaññaphalasutta in the dighanikaya one of the samanas expounds his doctrine using nominative singulars ending in -e, which is considered a typical Magadhism. This could perhaps be a way of portraying his character (since dialects can be associated with certain stereotyped figures). Maybe it makes him sound like a country-bumpkin or something. It's hard to say.

            best regards,

            /Rett


            >Sukhi,
            >
            >Piya
            >
            >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Hi,
            >>
            >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
            >> might be
            >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
            >> Take, for
            >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
            >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
            >> a
            >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
            >> over
            >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
            >> 160
            >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
            >> philologist
            >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
            >> two
            >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
            >> position
            >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
            >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
            >> dubious to
            >> say the very least.
            >>
            >> Regards,
            >>
            >> Ole Pind
            >>
            >> _____
            >>
            >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
            >> Clay
            >> Collier
            >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
            >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
            >>
            >>
            >> Hi Stephen-
            >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
            >> over the
            >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
            >> a
            >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
            >> on
            >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
            >> incomplete
            >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
            >> character/letter
            >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
            >> there is
            >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
            >> pull out
            >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
            >> what a
            >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
            >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
            >> have an
            >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
            >> given text
            >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
            >> given
            >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
            >> useful or
            >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
            >> languages. Any
            >> linguists have any insight to offer?
            >>
            >> Clay Collier
            >>
            >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
            > > wrote:
            >> >
            >> > Dear Friends,
            >> >
            >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
            >> words,
            >> > I
            >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
            >> Has a
            >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
            >> word
            >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
            >> > difficulty
            >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
            >> the
            >> > words
            >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
            >> could
            >> > be
            >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
            >> frequency
            >> >
            >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
            >> >
            >> > Best wishes,
            >> > Stephen Hodge
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
            >> digest or
            >> > web only.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > SPONSORED LINKS
            >> > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
            >> eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
            >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
            >> &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
            >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
            >> Theravada
            >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
            >> +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
            >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
            >> &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
            >> on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
            >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
            >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
            >> hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
            >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
            >> &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
            >> liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
            >> P5Q> Mormon
            >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
            >> dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
            >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
            >> &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
            >> eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
            >> 7lEg> Tibetan
            >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
            >> uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
            >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
            >> &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
            >> +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
            >> iYfSbg> Zen
            >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
            >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
            >> ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
            >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
            >> &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
            >> iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
            >> NA>
            >> > ------------------------------
            >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>"
            >> on
            >> > the web.
            >> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >> >
            >> Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Un
            >> subscribe>
            >> > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            >> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
            >> >
            >> >
            >> > ------------------------------
            >> >
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            >>
            >>
            >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
            >> or web
            >> only.
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> _____
            >>
            >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> * Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> " on
            >> the web.
            >>
            >>
            >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            >> Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >> <mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
            >>
            >>
            >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            >> Service
            >> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
            >>
            >>
            >> _____
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=41764&pa
            >> rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            >>
            >>
            >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
            >> or web only.
            >> Yahoo! Groups Links
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >
            >
            >
            >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Everett Thiele
            ... lists to be ... Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@m...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Dmytro,
              >
              > Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution
              lists to be
              > the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
              >

              Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus
              first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal sections
              and elsewhere, that many words show a much higher frequency than they
              ought to.

              Perhaps an approach would be to take all passages that are repeated
              verbatim (such as doctrinal lists and opening formulas) and only count
              them once total in the sample.

              I suppose it would depend on the purpose of the frequency list. For
              pedagogical purposes it's probably a good idea that upasa.mkamitvaa
              and saavatthiya.m have artificially high rankings. But for studies of
              the language itself, that would appear to be misleading.

              best regards,

              /Rett
            • Ole Holten Pind
              _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: Re: SV: [Pali]
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
              • 0 Attachment
                _____

                Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett
                Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39
                Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] most common words?

                Hi group,


                The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha
                addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word
                pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the
                dialect now called Pali.

                Yes, but as I have pointed out below this assumption is contradicted by the
                distribution in the canon of bhikkhave and bhikkhavo.

                regards

                Ole Pind


                best regards,

                /Rett


                >Sukhi,
                >
                >Piya
                >
                >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Hi,
                >>
                >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                >> might be
                >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                >> Take, for
                >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                >> a
                >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                >> over
                >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                >> 160
                >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                >> philologist
                >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                >> two
                >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                >> position
                >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                >> dubious to
                >> say the very least.
                >>
                >> Regards,
                >>
                >> Ole Pind
                >>
                >> _____
                >>
                >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                >> Clay
                >> Collier
                >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                >>
                >>
                >> Hi Stephen-
                >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                >> over the
                >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                >> a
                >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                >> on
                >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                >> incomplete
                >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                >> character/letter
                >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                >> there is
                >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                >> pull out
                >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                >> what a
                >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                >> have an
                >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                >> given text
                >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                >> given
                >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                >> useful or
                >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                >> languages. Any
                >> linguists have any insight to offer?
                >>
                >> Clay Collier
                >>
                >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                > > wrote:
                >> >
                >> > Dear Friends,
                >> >
                >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                >> words,
                >> > I
                >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                >> Has a
                >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                >> word
                >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                >> > difficulty
                >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                >> the
                >> > words
                >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                >> could
                >> > be
                >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                >> frequency
                >> >
                >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                >> >
                >> > Best wishes,
                >> > Stephen Hodge
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                >> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                >> digest or
                >> > web only.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > SPONSORED LINKS
                >> > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                > &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                >>
                eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                >>
                &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                >> Theravada
                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                > &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                >>
                +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                >>
                &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                >>
                on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                > &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                >>
                hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
                >>
                &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
                >>
                liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                >> P5Q> Mormon
                >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                > &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                >>
                dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
                >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
                >>
                &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
                >>
                eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                >> 7lEg> Tibetan
                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                > &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                >>
                uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
                >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
                >>
                &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
                >>
                +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
                >> iYfSbg> Zen
                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                > &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                >>
                ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
                >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
                >>
                &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
                >>
                iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                >> NA>
                >> > ------------------------------
                >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>"
                >> on
                >> > the web.
                >> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >> >
                >>
                Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Un
                >> subscribe>
                >> > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                >> > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
                >> >
                >> >
                >> > ------------------------------
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >>
                >>
                >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                >> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                >> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                >> or web
                >> only.
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> _____
                >>
                >> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> * Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> " on
                >> the web.
                >>
                >>
                >> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >> Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >> <mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
                >>
                >>
                >> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                >> Service
                >> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                >>
                >>
                >> _____
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo
                <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=41764&pa
                > &El=&SG=&RAND=41764&pa
                >> rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                >>
                >>
                >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                >> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                >> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
                >> or web only.
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                >Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                >[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                >[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                >[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                >Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
                only.
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >



                - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
                only.




                SPONSORED LINKS
                Theravada
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Theravada+buddhis
                m&w2=Tibetan+buddhism&w3=Zen+buddhism&c=3&s=64&.sig=143HA6VIJ6mWxeVKQqQFhg>
                buddhism Tibetan
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Theravada+buddhism&
                w2=Tibetan+buddhism&w3=Zen+buddhism&c=3&s=64&.sig=kFGn80DzpxnMd3qPWEko-g>
                buddhism Zen
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Theravada+buddhism&w2=T
                ibetan+buddhism&w3=Zen+buddhism&c=3&s=64&.sig=QR8c79yJKSfiXn_UCl1T0Q>
                buddhism

                _____

                YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                * Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> " on
                the web.


                * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                <mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                _____




                <http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=&SG=&RAND=91358&pa
                rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Stephen Hodge
                Dear Ole, Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop top-posting -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not know
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear Ole,

                  Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop
                  "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not
                  know what top-posting is and why it is to be avoided, please do a google
                  search for details.

                  Many thanks,
                  Stephen Hodge
                • Gunnar Gällmo
                  ... I disagree about the principle that top-posting should always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a message which fills the entire screen may be very
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- Stephen Hodge
                    <s.hodge@...> skrev:

                    > Dear Ole,
                    >
                    > Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you
                    > possibly stop
                    > "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good
                    > example. If you do not
                    > know what top-posting is and why it is to be
                    > avoided, please do a google
                    > search for details.

                    I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                    always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                    message which fills the entire screen may be very
                    confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                    Gunnar
                  • Stephen Hodge
                    Dear Gunnar, ... One should use one s common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Dear Gunnar,

                      > I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                      > always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                      > message which fills the entire screen may be very
                      > confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                      One should use one's common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by
                      top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up message
                      after message in replies back and forth without deleting all that is
                      redundant. I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                      uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                      top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                      There are several issues here. If messages are archived by a group, it
                      makes searching topics / threads confusing. Also, many people have slow
                      connections AND have to pay by the minute for connection times (like me) --
                      if everybody did the same as Ole, then my phone bill would steadily increase
                      with no benefit to me.

                      Generally, it is regarded as good netiquette to snip out = [snip] and only
                      quote the necessary pieces of a previous message that are required to make
                      sense. In fact, if you do not do this and top-post, as I have described, in
                      some groups such as the academic H-NET ones, your message does not get
                      posted.

                      So, no big deal really, but just a question of mindfulness.

                      Best wishes,
                      Stephen Hodge
                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends, I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is advised that members be mindful of the issue. All
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                        I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is
                        advised that members be mindful of the issue. All Yahoo! Groups'
                        messages come with a footer, either the moderator insert one (as is
                        for this group) or Yahoo! will put in a default footer, pointing the
                        receipient to Yahoo! Terms of Service, etc.

                        Together with this footer is advertisements, which is known as
                        sponsored links. These are generated each time a message is issued
                        from Yahoo! server. So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                        them off.


                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.



                        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                        if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                        three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                      • Ole Holten Pind
                        _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong Peng Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Pali]
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          _____

                          Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong
                          Peng
                          Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24
                          Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                          Emne: [Pali] Re: Top-posting


                          Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                          So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                          them off.


                          I agree,

                          The inconvenience of dealing with the barbage just never ccurred to me. I
                          have a very fast connection..

                          Ole Pind


                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                          if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                          three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                        • Ong Yong Peng
                          Dear Rene and friends, thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Rene and friends,

                            thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful
                            documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                            duplicated. If there is any problem, please write to me offlist.
                            Thank you.


                            metta,
                            Yong Peng.



                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rsalm wrote:

                            I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't
                            have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It
                            lists the word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150
                            times). 'pajahati' comes in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just
                            the Suttapitaka. Will try to attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5
                            pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng may want to place it in the file
                            section of the list. If it doesn't go through, we'll have to think of
                            something else.
                          • rett
                            ... That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That s why it became so
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                              >uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                              >top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.

                              That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That's why it became so long.

                              best regards,

                              /Rett
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.