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Re: [Pali] most common words?

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  • rsalm
    Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng, I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don t have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
      Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng,
      I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It lists the word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150 times). 'pajahati' comes in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just the Suttapitaka. Will try to attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5 pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng may want to place it in the file section of the list. If it doesn't go through, we'll have to think of something else.
      Rene
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: james Miner
      To: pali@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:03 AM
      Subject: [Pali] most common words?


      Hello,
      I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
      common words in the Pali Canon" .
      is there such a list?
      Thanks,
      James





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    • Clay Collier
      The Top 1000 words list is located in the More Files page that was created for the group at: http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/ The download links for the
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
        The Top 1000 words list is located in the 'More Files' page that was created
        for the group at: http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
        The download links for the wordlist are about 3/4s of the way down the page.
        There are three different formats of the list.

        Clay Collier

        On 11/2/05, rsalm <rjs@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng,
        > I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't have a
        > URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It lists the
        > word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150 times). 'pajahati' comes
        > in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just the Suttapitaka. Will try to
        > attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5 pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng
        > may want to place it in the file section of the list. If it doesn't go
        > through, we'll have to think of something else.
        > Rene
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: james Miner
        > To: pali@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:03 AM
        > Subject: [Pali] most common words?
        >
        >
        > Hello,
        > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
        > common words in the Pali Canon" .
        > is there such a list?
        > Thanks,
        > James
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw> Beyond
        > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q> Mormon
        > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg> Tibetan
        > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg> Zen
        > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
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      • Clay Collier
        Hi Stephen- I d thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the years hasn t turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
          Hi Stephen-
          I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
          years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
          project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
          classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
          texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
          frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
          a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull out
          of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
          particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
          compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
          additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
          is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
          some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
          not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages. Any
          linguists have any insight to offer?

          Clay Collier

          On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Friends,
          >
          > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words,
          > I
          > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
          > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
          > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
          > difficulty
          > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
          > words
          > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
          > be
          > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
          >
          > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
          >
          > Best wishes,
          > Stephen Hodge
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
          > web only.
          >
          >
          >
          > SPONSORED LINKS
          > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw> Theravada
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw> Beyond
          > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q> Mormon
          > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg> Tibetan
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg> Zen
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
          > ------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert Didham
          Some good ppints there Clay and I thought that there had been some work done on the canon (particularly the Sanskrit versions and I expected the Pali as well)
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
            Some good ppints there Clay and I thought that there had been some work done
            on the canon (particularly the Sanskrit versions and I expected the Pali as
            well) at least as far as staistical analysis from the point of view of
            dating, authorship, stylistics etc - will try to dig back through my memory
            and see what pops out - would almost certainly be in the German scholarly
            literature.

            Cheers

            Robert Didham

            >From: Clay Collier <spasemunki@...>
            >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [Pali] most common words?
            >Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:40:58 -0800
            >
            >Hi Stephen-
            >I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
            >years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
            >project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
            >classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
            >texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
            >frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
            >a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull
            >out
            >of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
            >particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
            >compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
            >additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
            >is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
            >some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
            >not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages.
            >Any
            >linguists have any insight to offer?
            >
            >Clay Collier
            >
            >On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > Dear Friends,
            > >
            > > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
            >words,
            > > I
            > > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
            > > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
            > > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
            > > difficulty
            > > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
            > > words
            > > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
            > > be
            > > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
            >frequency
            > >
            > > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
            > >
            > > Best wishes,
            > > Stephen Hodge
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
            > > web only.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > SPONSORED LINKS
            > >
            >Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
            > Theravada
            > >
            >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
            > Beyond
            > >
            >belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
            > Mormon
            > >
            >beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
            > Tibetan
            > >
            >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
            > Zen
            > >
            >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
            > > ------------------------------
            > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            > >
            > >
            > > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>" on
            > > the web.
            > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > >
            >Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
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            > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------
            > >
            >
            >
            >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Ole Holten Pind
            Hi, There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
              Hi,

              There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be
              interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
              instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
              Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is a
              Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well over
              26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about 160
              quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined philologist
              would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the two
              vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial position
              in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
              indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is dubious to
              say the very least.

              Regards,

              Ole Pind

              _____

              Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Clay
              Collier
              Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
              Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?


              Hi Stephen-
              I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
              years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
              project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
              classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
              texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
              frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
              a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull out
              of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
              particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
              compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
              additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
              is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
              some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
              not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages. Any
              linguists have any insight to offer?

              Clay Collier

              On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
              >
              > Dear Friends,
              >
              > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words,
              > I
              > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
              > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
              > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
              > difficulty
              > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
              > words
              > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
              > be
              > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
              >
              > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
              >
              > Best wishes,
              > Stephen Hodge
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
              > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
              > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
              > web only.
              >
              >
              >
              > SPONSORED LINKS
              > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
              eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
              &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
              &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
              Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
              Theravada
              > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
              +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
              hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
              &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
              on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
              4nXQuJGw> Beyond
              > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
              hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
              c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
              &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
              liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
              P5Q> Mormon
              > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
              dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
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              eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
              7lEg> Tibetan
              > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
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              +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
              iYfSbg> Zen
              > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
              <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
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              iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
              NA>
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            • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
              Hello James, ... Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624 Besides,
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                Hello James,

                > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
                > common words in the Pali Canon" .
                > is there such a list?

                Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread
                http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                This approach can be an instrument of determining the relative age of
                Pali texts.

                Regards,
                Dmytro
              • Ole Holten Pind
                Dear Dmytro, Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                  Dear Dmytro,

                  Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be
                  the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.

                  Best regards,

                  Ole Pind

                  -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                  Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Dmytro
                  A. Ivakhnenko
                  Sendt: 3. november 2005 09:59
                  Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                  Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?

                  Hello James,

                  > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most common words in the
                  > Pali Canon" .
                  > is there such a list?

                  Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread
                  http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                  Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                  occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                  Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                  This approach can be an instrument of determining the relative age of Pali
                  texts.

                  Regards,
                  Dmytro


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                • Stephen Hodge
                  Dear Dmytro, ... Sadhu, sadhu ! This sounds brilliant ! I, for one, would love to have a copy. Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it. I
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                    Dear Dmytro,

                    > Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                    > occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                    > Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                    Sadhu, sadhu ! This sounds brilliant ! I, for one, would love to have a
                    copy. Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it. I wonder if
                    there is something similar for Sanskrit, based perhaps on the main classics.

                    Best wishes,
                    Stephen Hodge
                  • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
                    Hello, Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                      Hello,

                      Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas
                      and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                      Vinaya-pitaka, and overall number of occurences, in MS Excel format:

                      http://translate.nibbanka.com/wordlist/paliwords.zip (1.2 Mb)

                      Best wishes,
                      Dmytro
                    • Stephen Hodge
                      Dear Dmytro, Thanks -- this sounds really useful. All I need now is to get a copy of MS Excel since I don t have that at present. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                        Dear Dmytro,

                        Thanks -- this sounds really useful. All I need now is to get a copy of MS
                        Excel since I don't have that at present.

                        Best wishes,
                        Stephen Hodge
                      • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
                        Dear Stephen, ... I used the wordlist provided by Ven. Yuttadhammo, see: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624 and did a bit of processing
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                          Dear Stephen,

                          > Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it.

                          I used the wordlist provided by Ven. Yuttadhammo, see:
                          http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                          and did a bit of processing in MS Excel.

                          Yours, Dmytro
                        • rett
                          Hi, Very nice. Saavatthiya.m is att 111th place! /Rett
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                            Hi,

                            Very nice. Saavatthiya.m is att 111th place!

                            /Rett

                            >Hello,
                            >
                            >Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas
                            >and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                            >Vinaya-pitaka, and overall number of occurences, in MS Excel format:
                            >
                            >http://translate.nibbanka.com/wordlist/paliwords.zip (1.2 Mb)
                            >
                            >Best wishes,
                            > Dmytro
                          • libris
                            The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism. What is the
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                              The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

                              What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

                              Sukhi,

                              Piya

                              --- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:

                              > Hi,
                              >
                              > There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                              > might be
                              > interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                              > Take, for
                              > instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                              > Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                              > a
                              > Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                              > over
                              > 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                              > 160
                              > quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                              > philologist
                              > would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                              > two
                              > vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                              > position
                              > in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                              > indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                              > dubious to
                              > say the very least.
                              >
                              > Regards,
                              >
                              > Ole Pind
                              >
                              > _____
                              >
                              > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                              > Clay
                              > Collier
                              > Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                              > Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                              > Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Stephen-
                              > I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                              > over the
                              > years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                              > a
                              > project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                              > on
                              > classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                              > incomplete
                              > texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                              > character/letter
                              > frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                              > there is
                              > a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                              > pull out
                              > of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                              > what a
                              > particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                              > compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                              > have an
                              > additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                              > given text
                              > is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                              > given
                              > some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                              > useful or
                              > not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                              > languages. Any
                              > linguists have any insight to offer?
                              >
                              > Clay Collier
                              >
                              > On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                              > wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Dear Friends,
                              > >
                              > > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                              > words,
                              > > I
                              > > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                              > Has a
                              > > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                              > word
                              > > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                              > > difficulty
                              > > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                              > the
                              > > words
                              > > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                              > could
                              > > be
                              > > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                              > frequency
                              > >
                              > > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                              > >
                              > > Best wishes,
                              > > Stephen Hodge
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
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                            • rett
                              Hi Piya and group. I don t have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                Hi Piya and group.

                                I don't have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it has been called into question. But I can perhaps respond to a few parts of your question.

                                >The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

                                That's interesting. Geiger/Norman §82.3 identify the /-e/ ending form as a Magadhism. Final /e/ where we would expect /o/ is typical of the words considered Magadhisms.


                                >What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

                                As I understand it, no. Magadhisms would be forms dating already from the period when the Buddha was teaching. The idea is that the Pali as we know it is a different, probably later, dialect than the one in which the Buddha taught, but that certain old forms were retained for various reasons.

                                The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the dialect now called Pali.

                                In the samaññaphalasutta in the dighanikaya one of the samanas expounds his doctrine using nominative singulars ending in -e, which is considered a typical Magadhism. This could perhaps be a way of portraying his character (since dialects can be associated with certain stereotyped figures). Maybe it makes him sound like a country-bumpkin or something. It's hard to say.

                                best regards,

                                /Rett


                                >Sukhi,
                                >
                                >Piya
                                >
                                >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >> Hi,
                                >>
                                >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                                >> might be
                                >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                                >> Take, for
                                >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                                >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                                >> a
                                >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                                >> over
                                >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                                >> 160
                                >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                                >> philologist
                                >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                                >> two
                                >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                                >> position
                                >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                                >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                                >> dubious to
                                >> say the very least.
                                >>
                                >> Regards,
                                >>
                                >> Ole Pind
                                >>
                                >> _____
                                >>
                                >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                                >> Clay
                                >> Collier
                                >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                                >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                                >>
                                >>
                                >> Hi Stephen-
                                >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                                >> over the
                                >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                                >> a
                                >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                                >> on
                                >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                                >> incomplete
                                >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                                >> character/letter
                                >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                                >> there is
                                >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                                >> pull out
                                >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                                >> what a
                                >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                                >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                                >> have an
                                >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                                >> given text
                                >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                                >> given
                                >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                                >> useful or
                                >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                                >> languages. Any
                                >> linguists have any insight to offer?
                                >>
                                >> Clay Collier
                                >>
                                >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                                > > wrote:
                                >> >
                                >> > Dear Friends,
                                >> >
                                >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                                >> words,
                                >> > I
                                >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                                >> Has a
                                >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                                >> word
                                >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                                >> > difficulty
                                >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                                >> the
                                >> > words
                                >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                                >> could
                                >> > be
                                >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                                >> frequency
                                >> >
                                >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                                >> >
                                >> > Best wishes,
                                >> > Stephen Hodge
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> >
                                >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
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                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                >> eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                                >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                >> &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                                >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                >> Theravada
                                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                >> +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                                >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                                >> &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                                >> on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                                >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                                >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                >> hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                                >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
                                >> &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
                                >> liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                                >> P5Q> Mormon
                                >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                >> dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
                                >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
                                >> &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
                                >> eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                                >> 7lEg> Tibetan
                                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                >> uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
                                >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
                                >> &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
                                >> +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
                                >> iYfSbg> Zen
                                >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                >> ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
                                >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
                                >> &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
                                >> iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                                >> NA>
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                              • Everett Thiele
                                ... lists to be ... Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@m...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Dmytro,
                                  >
                                  > Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution
                                  lists to be
                                  > the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
                                  >

                                  Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus
                                  first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal sections
                                  and elsewhere, that many words show a much higher frequency than they
                                  ought to.

                                  Perhaps an approach would be to take all passages that are repeated
                                  verbatim (such as doctrinal lists and opening formulas) and only count
                                  them once total in the sample.

                                  I suppose it would depend on the purpose of the frequency list. For
                                  pedagogical purposes it's probably a good idea that upasa.mkamitvaa
                                  and saavatthiya.m have artificially high rankings. But for studies of
                                  the language itself, that would appear to be misleading.

                                  best regards,

                                  /Rett
                                • Ole Holten Pind
                                  _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: Re: SV: [Pali]
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                    _____

                                    Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett
                                    Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39
                                    Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                    Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] most common words?

                                    Hi group,


                                    The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha
                                    addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word
                                    pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the
                                    dialect now called Pali.

                                    Yes, but as I have pointed out below this assumption is contradicted by the
                                    distribution in the canon of bhikkhave and bhikkhavo.

                                    regards

                                    Ole Pind


                                    best regards,

                                    /Rett


                                    >Sukhi,
                                    >
                                    >Piya
                                    >
                                    >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >> Hi,
                                    >>
                                    >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                                    >> might be
                                    >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                                    >> Take, for
                                    >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                                    >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                                    >> a
                                    >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                                    >> over
                                    >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                                    >> 160
                                    >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                                    >> philologist
                                    >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                                    >> two
                                    >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                                    >> position
                                    >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                                    >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                                    >> dubious to
                                    >> say the very least.
                                    >>
                                    >> Regards,
                                    >>
                                    >> Ole Pind
                                    >>
                                    >> _____
                                    >>
                                    >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                                    >> Clay
                                    >> Collier
                                    >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                                    >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Hi Stephen-
                                    >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                                    >> over the
                                    >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                                    >> a
                                    >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                                    >> on
                                    >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                                    >> incomplete
                                    >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                                    >> character/letter
                                    >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                                    >> there is
                                    >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                                    >> pull out
                                    >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                                    >> what a
                                    >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                                    >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                                    >> have an
                                    >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                                    >> given text
                                    >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                                    >> given
                                    >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                                    >> useful or
                                    >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                                    >> languages. Any
                                    >> linguists have any insight to offer?
                                    >>
                                    >> Clay Collier
                                    >>
                                    >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                                    > > wrote:
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Dear Friends,
                                    >> >
                                    >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                                    >> words,
                                    >> > I
                                    >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                                    >> Has a
                                    >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                                    >> word
                                    >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                                    >> > difficulty
                                    >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                                    >> the
                                    >> > words
                                    >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                                    >> could
                                    >> > be
                                    >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                                    >> frequency
                                    >> >
                                    >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                                    >> >
                                    >> > Best wishes,
                                    >> > Stephen Hodge
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                    >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                    >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                    >> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                    >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                                    >> digest or
                                    >> > web only.
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > SPONSORED LINKS
                                    >> > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                    > &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                    >>
                                    eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                                    >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                                    >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                    >> Theravada
                                    >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                    > &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                    >>
                                    +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                                    >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                                    >>
                                    on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                                    >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                                    >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                    > &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                    >>
                                    hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                                    >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
                                    >>
                                    liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                                    >> P5Q> Mormon
                                    >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                    > &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                    >>
                                    dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
                                    >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
                                    >>
                                    eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                                    >> 7lEg> Tibetan
                                    >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                    > &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                    >>
                                    uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
                                    >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
                                    >>
                                    +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
                                    >> iYfSbg> Zen
                                    >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                    <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                    > &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                    >>
                                    ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
                                    >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
                                    >>
                                    &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
                                    >>
                                    iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                                    >> NA>
                                    >> > ------------------------------
                                    >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                    >> >
                                    >> >
                                    >> > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>"
                                    >> on
                                    >> > the web.
                                    >> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Un
                                    >> subscribe>
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                                    >> > ------------------------------
                                    >> >
                                    >>
                                    >>
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                                    > >
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                    >> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                    >> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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                                    >> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                    >> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
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                                    >> only.
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                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> _____
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                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Stephen Hodge
                                    Dear Ole, Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop top-posting -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not know
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                      Dear Ole,

                                      Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop
                                      "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not
                                      know what top-posting is and why it is to be avoided, please do a google
                                      search for details.

                                      Many thanks,
                                      Stephen Hodge
                                    • Gunnar Gällmo
                                      ... I disagree about the principle that top-posting should always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                        --- Stephen Hodge
                                        <s.hodge@...> skrev:

                                        > Dear Ole,
                                        >
                                        > Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you
                                        > possibly stop
                                        > "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good
                                        > example. If you do not
                                        > know what top-posting is and why it is to be
                                        > avoided, please do a google
                                        > search for details.

                                        I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                                        always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                                        message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                        confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                                        Gunnar
                                      • Stephen Hodge
                                        Dear Gunnar, ... One should use one s common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                          Dear Gunnar,

                                          > I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                                          > always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                                          > message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                          > confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                                          One should use one's common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by
                                          top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up message
                                          after message in replies back and forth without deleting all that is
                                          redundant. I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                                          uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                                          top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                          There are several issues here. If messages are archived by a group, it
                                          makes searching topics / threads confusing. Also, many people have slow
                                          connections AND have to pay by the minute for connection times (like me) --
                                          if everybody did the same as Ole, then my phone bill would steadily increase
                                          with no benefit to me.

                                          Generally, it is regarded as good netiquette to snip out = [snip] and only
                                          quote the necessary pieces of a previous message that are required to make
                                          sense. In fact, if you do not do this and top-post, as I have described, in
                                          some groups such as the academic H-NET ones, your message does not get
                                          posted.

                                          So, no big deal really, but just a question of mindfulness.

                                          Best wishes,
                                          Stephen Hodge
                                        • Ong Yong Peng
                                          Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends, I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is advised that members be mindful of the issue. All
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
                                            Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                                            I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is
                                            advised that members be mindful of the issue. All Yahoo! Groups'
                                            messages come with a footer, either the moderator insert one (as is
                                            for this group) or Yahoo! will put in a default footer, pointing the
                                            receipient to Yahoo! Terms of Service, etc.

                                            Together with this footer is advertisements, which is known as
                                            sponsored links. These are generated each time a message is issued
                                            from Yahoo! server. So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                                            them off.


                                            metta,
                                            Yong Peng.



                                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                                            if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                                            three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                          • Ole Holten Pind
                                            _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong Peng Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Pali]
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                                              _____

                                              Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong
                                              Peng
                                              Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24
                                              Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                              Emne: [Pali] Re: Top-posting


                                              Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                                              So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                                              them off.


                                              I agree,

                                              The inconvenience of dealing with the barbage just never ccurred to me. I
                                              have a very fast connection..

                                              Ole Pind


                                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                                              if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                                              three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                            • Ong Yong Peng
                                              Dear Rene and friends, thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                                                Dear Rene and friends,

                                                thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful
                                                documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                                                duplicated. If there is any problem, please write to me offlist.
                                                Thank you.


                                                metta,
                                                Yong Peng.



                                                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rsalm wrote:

                                                I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't
                                                have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It
                                                lists the word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150
                                                times). 'pajahati' comes in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just
                                                the Suttapitaka. Will try to attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5
                                                pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng may want to place it in the file
                                                section of the list. If it doesn't go through, we'll have to think of
                                                something else.
                                              • rett
                                                ... That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That s why it became so
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                                                  > I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                                                  >uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                                                  >top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.

                                                  That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That's why it became so long.

                                                  best regards,

                                                  /Rett
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