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Re: [Pali] most common words?

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  • Stephen Hodge
    Dear Friends, To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words, I had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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      Dear Friends,

      To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words, I
      had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
      statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
      frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the difficulty
      to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the words
      coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could be
      done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
      list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.

      Best wishes,
      Stephen Hodge
    • rsalm
      Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng, I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don t have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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        Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng,
        I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It lists the word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150 times). 'pajahati' comes in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just the Suttapitaka. Will try to attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5 pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng may want to place it in the file section of the list. If it doesn't go through, we'll have to think of something else.
        Rene
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: james Miner
        To: pali@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:03 AM
        Subject: [Pali] most common words?


        Hello,
        I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
        common words in the Pali Canon" .
        is there such a list?
        Thanks,
        James





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      • Clay Collier
        The Top 1000 words list is located in the More Files page that was created for the group at: http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/ The download links for the
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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          The Top 1000 words list is located in the 'More Files' page that was created
          for the group at: http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          The download links for the wordlist are about 3/4s of the way down the page.
          There are three different formats of the list.

          Clay Collier

          On 11/2/05, rsalm <rjs@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi James, Stephen, and Yong Peng,
          > I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't have a
          > URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It lists the
          > word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150 times). 'pajahati' comes
          > in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just the Suttapitaka. Will try to
          > attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5 pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng
          > may want to place it in the file section of the list. If it doesn't go
          > through, we'll have to think of something else.
          > Rene
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: james Miner
          > To: pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 11:03 AM
          > Subject: [Pali] most common words?
          >
          >
          > Hello,
          > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
          > common words in the Pali Canon" .
          > is there such a list?
          > Thanks,
          > James
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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          >
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          > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
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          > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw> Theravada
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw> Beyond
          > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q> Mormon
          > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg> Tibetan
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg> Zen
          > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Clay Collier
          Hi Stephen- I d thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the years hasn t turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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            Hi Stephen-
            I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
            years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
            project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
            classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
            texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
            frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
            a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull out
            of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
            particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
            compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
            additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
            is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
            some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
            not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages. Any
            linguists have any insight to offer?

            Clay Collier

            On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
            >
            > Dear Friends,
            >
            > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words,
            > I
            > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
            > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
            > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
            > difficulty
            > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
            > words
            > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
            > be
            > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
            >
            > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
            >
            > Best wishes,
            > Stephen Hodge
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
            > web only.
            >
            >
            >
            > SPONSORED LINKS
            > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw> Theravada
            > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw> Beyond
            > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q> Mormon
            > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg> Tibetan
            > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg> Zen
            > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
            > ------------------------------
            > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
            >
            >
            > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>" on
            > the web.
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            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Robert Didham
            Some good ppints there Clay and I thought that there had been some work done on the canon (particularly the Sanskrit versions and I expected the Pali as well)
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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              Some good ppints there Clay and I thought that there had been some work done
              on the canon (particularly the Sanskrit versions and I expected the Pali as
              well) at least as far as staistical analysis from the point of view of
              dating, authorship, stylistics etc - will try to dig back through my memory
              and see what pops out - would almost certainly be in the German scholarly
              literature.

              Cheers

              Robert Didham

              >From: Clay Collier <spasemunki@...>
              >Reply-To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              >To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
              >Subject: Re: [Pali] most common words?
              >Date: Wed, 2 Nov 2005 14:40:58 -0800
              >
              >Hi Stephen-
              >I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
              >years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
              >project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
              >classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
              >texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
              >frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
              >a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull
              >out
              >of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
              >particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
              >compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
              >additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
              >is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
              >some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
              >not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages.
              >Any
              >linguists have any insight to offer?
              >
              >Clay Collier
              >
              >On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Dear Friends,
              > >
              > > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
              >words,
              > > I
              > > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
              > > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
              > > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
              > > difficulty
              > > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
              > > words
              > > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
              > > be
              > > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
              >frequency
              > >
              > > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
              > >
              > > Best wishes,
              > > Stephen Hodge
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
              > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
              > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
              > > web only.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > SPONSORED LINKS
              > >
              >Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
              > Theravada
              > >
              >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
              > Beyond
              > >
              >belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
              > Mormon
              > >
              >beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
              > Tibetan
              > >
              >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
              > Zen
              > >
              >buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
              > > ------------------------------
              > > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
              > >
              > >
              > > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>" on
              > > the web.
              > > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > >
              >Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
              > > - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------
              > >
              >
              >
              >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Ole Holten Pind
              Hi, There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 2, 2005
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                Hi,

                There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that might be
                interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many. Take, for
                instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is a
                Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well over
                26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about 160
                quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined philologist
                would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the two
                vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial position
                in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is dubious to
                say the very least.

                Regards,

                Ole Pind

                _____

                Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Clay
                Collier
                Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?


                Hi Stephen-
                I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching over the
                years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such a
                project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work on
                classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering incomplete
                texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of character/letter
                frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that there is
                a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to pull out
                of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of what a
                particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you have an
                additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a given text
                is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have given
                some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered useful or
                not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other languages. Any
                linguists have any insight to offer?

                Clay Collier

                On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dear Friends,
                >
                > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali words,
                > I
                > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question: Has a
                > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful word
                > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                > difficulty
                > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and the
                > words
                > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it could
                > be
                > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word frequency
                >
                > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                > Stephen Hodge
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
                > web only.
                >
                >
                >
                > SPONSORED LINKS
                > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                Theravada
                > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
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                liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                P5Q> Mormon
                > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
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                eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                7lEg> Tibetan
                > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
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                iYfSbg> Zen
                > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
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                iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                NA>
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              • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
                Hello James, ... Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624 Besides,
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello James,

                  > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most
                  > common words in the Pali Canon" .
                  > is there such a list?

                  Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread
                  http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                  Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                  occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                  Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                  This approach can be an instrument of determining the relative age of
                  Pali texts.

                  Regards,
                  Dmytro
                • Ole Holten Pind
                  Dear Dmytro, Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                    Dear Dmytro,

                    Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution lists to be
                    the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.

                    Best regards,

                    Ole Pind

                    -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                    Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Dmytro
                    A. Ivakhnenko
                    Sendt: 3. november 2005 09:59
                    Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                    Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?

                    Hello James,

                    > I have been looking for this list of the "100 most common words in the
                    > Pali Canon" .
                    > is there such a list?

                    Besides already mentioned link, you can find extended lists in the thread
                    http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                    Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                    occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                    Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                    This approach can be an instrument of determining the relative age of Pali
                    texts.

                    Regards,
                    Dmytro


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                  • Stephen Hodge
                    Dear Dmytro, ... Sadhu, sadhu ! This sounds brilliant ! I, for one, would love to have a copy. Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it. I
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                      Dear Dmytro,

                      > Besides, I have a list of top 50000 Pali words with numbers of their
                      > occurences in Digha, Majjhima, Samyutta, Anguttara, Khuddaka Nikayas and
                      > Vinaya, and overall number. I can put it on website if necessary.

                      Sadhu, sadhu ! This sounds brilliant ! I, for one, would love to have a
                      copy. Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it. I wonder if
                      there is something similar for Sanskrit, based perhaps on the main classics.

                      Best wishes,
                      Stephen Hodge
                    • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
                      Hello, Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                        Hello,

                        Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas
                        and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                        Vinaya-pitaka, and overall number of occurences, in MS Excel format:

                        http://translate.nibbanka.com/wordlist/paliwords.zip (1.2 Mb)

                        Best wishes,
                        Dmytro
                      • Stephen Hodge
                        Dear Dmytro, Thanks -- this sounds really useful. All I need now is to get a copy of MS Excel since I don t have that at present. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                          Dear Dmytro,

                          Thanks -- this sounds really useful. All I need now is to get a copy of MS
                          Excel since I don't have that at present.

                          Best wishes,
                          Stephen Hodge
                        • Dmytro A. Ivakhnenko
                          Dear Stephen, ... I used the wordlist provided by Ven. Yuttadhammo, see: http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624 and did a bit of processing
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dear Stephen,

                            > Did you compile it yourself ? If so, how did you do it.

                            I used the wordlist provided by Ven. Yuttadhammo, see:
                            http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=19624

                            and did a bit of processing in MS Excel.

                            Yours, Dmytro
                          • rett
                            Hi, Very nice. Saavatthiya.m is att 111th place! /Rett
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                              Hi,

                              Very nice. Saavatthiya.m is att 111th place!

                              /Rett

                              >Hello,
                              >
                              >Here is a list of about 50000 Pali words, sorted by frequency in Nikayas
                              >and Vinaya-pitaka, with numbers of occurences in each Nikaya and in
                              >Vinaya-pitaka, and overall number of occurences, in MS Excel format:
                              >
                              >http://translate.nibbanka.com/wordlist/paliwords.zip (1.2 Mb)
                              >
                              >Best wishes,
                              > Dmytro
                            • libris
                              The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism. What is the
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
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                                The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

                                What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

                                Sukhi,

                                Piya

                                --- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:

                                > Hi,
                                >
                                > There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                                > might be
                                > interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                                > Take, for
                                > instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                                > Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                                > a
                                > Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                                > over
                                > 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                                > 160
                                > quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                                > philologist
                                > would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                                > two
                                > vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                                > position
                                > in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                                > indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                                > dubious to
                                > say the very least.
                                >
                                > Regards,
                                >
                                > Ole Pind
                                >
                                > _____
                                >
                                > Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                                > Clay
                                > Collier
                                > Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                                > Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                > Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                                >
                                >
                                > Hi Stephen-
                                > I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                                > over the
                                > years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                                > a
                                > project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                                > on
                                > classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                                > incomplete
                                > texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                                > character/letter
                                > frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                                > there is
                                > a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                                > pull out
                                > of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                                > what a
                                > particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                                > compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                                > have an
                                > additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                                > given text
                                > is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                                > given
                                > some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                                > useful or
                                > not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                                > languages. Any
                                > linguists have any insight to offer?
                                >
                                > Clay Collier
                                >
                                > On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Dear Friends,
                                > >
                                > > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                                > words,
                                > > I
                                > > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                                > Has a
                                > > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                                > word
                                > > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                                > > difficulty
                                > > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                                > the
                                > > words
                                > > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                                > could
                                > > be
                                > > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                                > frequency
                                > >
                                > > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                                > >
                                > > Best wishes,
                                > > Stephen Hodge
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
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                              • rett
                                Hi Piya and group. I don t have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 3, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Piya and group.

                                  I don't have an firm opinion on the topic of Magadhisms since I used to just assume everything in Geiger was true, but now I see some of it has been called into question. But I can perhaps respond to a few parts of your question.

                                  >The impression I get is that Hajime Nakamura in his Gotama Buddha vol 2 (page 263 n59) says that it is bhikkhavo that is the Magadhism.

                                  That's interesting. Geiger/Norman §82.3 identify the /-e/ ending form as a Magadhism. Final /e/ where we would expect /o/ is typical of the words considered Magadhisms.


                                  >What is the significance of "Magadhism"? Does this mean that the passage or section was added during the Asokan period?

                                  As I understand it, no. Magadhisms would be forms dating already from the period when the Buddha was teaching. The idea is that the Pali as we know it is a different, probably later, dialect than the one in which the Buddha taught, but that certain old forms were retained for various reasons.

                                  The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the dialect now called Pali.

                                  In the samaññaphalasutta in the dighanikaya one of the samanas expounds his doctrine using nominative singulars ending in -e, which is considered a typical Magadhism. This could perhaps be a way of portraying his character (since dialects can be associated with certain stereotyped figures). Maybe it makes him sound like a country-bumpkin or something. It's hard to say.

                                  best regards,

                                  /Rett


                                  >Sukhi,
                                  >
                                  >Piya
                                  >
                                  >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >> Hi,
                                  >>
                                  >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                                  >> might be
                                  >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                                  >> Take, for
                                  >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                                  >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                                  >> a
                                  >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                                  >> over
                                  >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                                  >> 160
                                  >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                                  >> philologist
                                  >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                                  >> two
                                  >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                                  >> position
                                  >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                                  >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                                  >> dubious to
                                  >> say the very least.
                                  >>
                                  >> Regards,
                                  >>
                                  >> Ole Pind
                                  >>
                                  >> _____
                                  >>
                                  >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                                  >> Clay
                                  >> Collier
                                  >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                                  >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                  >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> Hi Stephen-
                                  >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                                  >> over the
                                  >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                                  >> a
                                  >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                                  >> on
                                  >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                                  >> incomplete
                                  >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                                  >> character/letter
                                  >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                                  >> there is
                                  >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                                  >> pull out
                                  >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                                  >> what a
                                  >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                                  >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                                  >> have an
                                  >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                                  >> given text
                                  >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                                  >> given
                                  >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                                  >> useful or
                                  >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                                  >> languages. Any
                                  >> linguists have any insight to offer?
                                  >>
                                  >> Clay Collier
                                  >>
                                  >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                                  > > wrote:
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Dear Friends,
                                  >> >
                                  >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                                  >> words,
                                  >> > I
                                  >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                                  >> Has a
                                  >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                                  >> word
                                  >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                                  >> > difficulty
                                  >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                                  >> the
                                  >> > words
                                  >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                                  >> could
                                  >> > be
                                  >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                                  >> frequency
                                  >> >
                                  >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                                  >> >
                                  >> > Best wishes,
                                  >> > Stephen Hodge
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> >
                                  >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                  >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                  >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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                                  >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
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                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                  >> eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                                  >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                  >> &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                                  >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                  >> Theravada
                                  >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                  >> +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                                  >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                                  >> &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                                  >> on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                                  >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                                  >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                  >> hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                                  >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
                                  >> &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
                                  >> liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                                  >> P5Q> Mormon
                                  >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                  >> dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
                                  >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
                                  >> &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
                                  >> eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                                  >> 7lEg> Tibetan
                                  >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                  >> uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
                                  >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
                                  >> &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
                                  >> +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
                                  >> iYfSbg> Zen
                                  >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                  >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                  >> ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
                                  >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
                                  >> &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
                                  >> iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                                  >> NA>
                                  >> > ------------------------------
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                                  > >
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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                                  >> rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!
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                                • Everett Thiele
                                  ... lists to be ... Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@m...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Dear Dmytro,
                                    >
                                    > Your list would be very interesting to me. I regard distribution
                                    lists to be
                                    > the way to solid linguistic research of the language of the canon.
                                    >

                                    Do you think it might be a good idea to do some trimming in the corpus
                                    first? There are so many repeated formula, both in doctrinal sections
                                    and elsewhere, that many words show a much higher frequency than they
                                    ought to.

                                    Perhaps an approach would be to take all passages that are repeated
                                    verbatim (such as doctrinal lists and opening formulas) and only count
                                    them once total in the sample.

                                    I suppose it would depend on the purpose of the frequency list. For
                                    pedagogical purposes it's probably a good idea that upasa.mkamitvaa
                                    and saavatthiya.m have artificially high rankings. But for studies of
                                    the language itself, that would appear to be misleading.

                                    best regards,

                                    /Rett
                                  • Ole Holten Pind
                                    _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: Re: SV: [Pali]
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      _____

                                      Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af rett
                                      Sendt: 4. november 2005 08:39
                                      Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                      Emne: Re: SV: [Pali] most common words?

                                      Hi group,


                                      The usual Anglo/German explanation of bhikkhave is that since the Buddha
                                      addressed his followers in exactly that way, and everyone had heard the word
                                      pronounced that way, it was retained even when the canon was recited in the
                                      dialect now called Pali.

                                      Yes, but as I have pointed out below this assumption is contradicted by the
                                      distribution in the canon of bhikkhave and bhikkhavo.

                                      regards

                                      Ole Pind


                                      best regards,

                                      /Rett


                                      >Sukhi,
                                      >
                                      >Piya
                                      >
                                      >--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> Hi,
                                      >>
                                      >> There is certainly a lot of important statistical information that
                                      >> might be
                                      >> interesting to pull out of the canon. To give one example of many.
                                      >> Take, for
                                      >> instance, the assumption that the Pali canon contains Magadhisms.
                                      >> Philologists believe that the vocative bhikkhave, for instance, is
                                      >> a
                                      >> Magadhism as opposed to that of bhikkhavo. However, there are well
                                      >> over
                                      >> 26.000 examples of the use of bhikkhave in the canon, but only about
                                      >> 160
                                      >> quotable instances of bhikkhavo. Any linguistically inclined
                                      >> philologist
                                      >> would find that statistically significant. The distribution of the
                                      >> two
                                      >> vocatives show that bhikkhavo only occurs in verse and in initial
                                      >> position
                                      >> in prose, whereas bhikkhave never occurs in such environments. This
                                      >> indicates that the interpretation of bhikkhave as a Magadhism is
                                      >> dubious to
                                      >> say the very least.
                                      >>
                                      >> Regards,
                                      >>
                                      >> Ole Pind
                                      >>
                                      >> _____
                                      >>
                                      >> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af
                                      >> Clay
                                      >> Collier
                                      >> Sendt: 2. november 2005 23:41
                                      >> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                      >> Emne: Re: [Pali] most common words?
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Hi Stephen-
                                      >> I'd thought of the same question earlier, but a little searching
                                      >> over the
                                      >> years hasn't turned up any leads to anyone having carried out such
                                      >> a
                                      >> project. I initially was drawn to the idea by looking at some work
                                      >> on
                                      >> classical cryptography, and its applications to deciphering
                                      >> incomplete
                                      >> texts, or untranslated scripts. As a result, tables of
                                      >> character/letter
                                      >> frequency were the first thing that I thought of, but I think that
                                      >> there is
                                      >> a lot of other statistical information that might be interesting to
                                      >> pull out
                                      >> of the canon. I imagine that if you have a statistical 'picture' of
                                      >> what a
                                      >> particular body of text looks like in terms of the relative use of
                                      >> compounds, vocabulary, archaic or under-used declentions, etc., you
                                      >> have an
                                      >> additional piece of information to use in trying to assess if a
                                      >> given text
                                      >> is in the same style. I would imagine that philologists would have
                                      >> given
                                      >> some thought to this sort of method- not sure if it is considered
                                      >> useful or
                                      >> not, or to what extent the approach has been tried with other
                                      >> languages. Any
                                      >> linguists have any insight to offer?
                                      >>
                                      >> Clay Collier
                                      >>
                                      >> On 11/2/05, Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      >> >
                                      >> > Dear Friends,
                                      >> >
                                      >> > To add to the request of James Miner fior the 100 most common Pali
                                      >> words,
                                      >> > I
                                      >> > had been thinking recently of asking a somewhat similar question:
                                      >> Has a
                                      >> > statistical count been carried out for Pali ? I have a useful
                                      >> word
                                      >> > frequency program (Hermetic Word Frequency Counter 3.07) but the
                                      >> > difficulty
                                      >> > to use it for Pali / Sanskrit is the large number of compounds and
                                      >> the
                                      >> > words
                                      >> > coalesced through sandhi. Given these problems, I can't see how it
                                      >> could
                                      >> > be
                                      >> > done -- so in the end I didn't bother to ask, though such a word
                                      >> frequency
                                      >> >
                                      >> > list would be useful for pedagogical purposes.
                                      >> >
                                      >> > Best wishes,
                                      >> > Stephen Hodge
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                      >> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
                                      >> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                      >> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
                                      >> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                      >> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                                      >> digest or
                                      >> > web only.
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> > SPONSORED LINKS
                                      >> > Pali<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                      > &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=B
                                      >>
                                      eyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113
                                      >> &.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Pali&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=
                                      >> Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=GyEyePcJHfZpsY-GdFssvw>
                                      >> Theravada
                                      >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                      > &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada
                                      >>
                                      +buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+budd
                                      >> hism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F4nXQuJGw>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Theravada+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Morm
                                      >>
                                      on+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=fPO4yeUBBy8t0F
                                      >> 4nXQuJGw> Beyond
                                      >> > belief<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                      > &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+budd
                                      >>
                                      hism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&
                                      >> c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUbP5Q>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Beyond+belief&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+be
                                      >>
                                      liefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=NgR22WEkb0gHRJDAPUb
                                      >> P5Q> Mormon
                                      >> > beliefs<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                      > &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+bud
                                      >>
                                      dhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism
                                      >> &c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw7lEg>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Mormon+beliefs&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+b
                                      >>
                                      eliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=SlQvf_DQhA7LQCPPqw
                                      >> 7lEg> Tibetan
                                      >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                      > &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+b
                                      >>
                                      uddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhi
                                      >> sm&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBpiYfSbg>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Tibetan+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon
                                      >>
                                      +beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=AYNn_WFJ1K_p6VBp
                                      >> iYfSbg> Zen
                                      >> > buddhism<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      >> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms
                                      <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                      > &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddh
                                      >>
                                      ism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+beliefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c
                                      >> =6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeCNA>
                                      >>
                                      &k=Zen+buddhism&w1=Pali&w2=Theravada+buddhism&w3=Beyond+belief&w4=Mormon+bel
                                      >>
                                      iefs&w5=Tibetan+buddhism&w6=Zen+buddhism&c=6&s=113&.sig=mnV1ApI1F2QNSeDb3zeC
                                      >> NA>
                                      >> > ------------------------------
                                      >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
                                      >> >
                                      >> >
                                      >> > - Visit your group "Pali <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>"
                                      >> on
                                      >> > the web.
                                      >> > - To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Stephen Hodge
                                      Dear Ole, Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop top-posting -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not know
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 4, 2005
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                                        Dear Ole,

                                        Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you possibly stop
                                        "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good example. If you do not
                                        know what top-posting is and why it is to be avoided, please do a google
                                        search for details.

                                        Many thanks,
                                        Stephen Hodge
                                      • Gunnar Gällmo
                                        ... I disagree about the principle that top-posting should always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
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                                          --- Stephen Hodge
                                          <s.hodge@...> skrev:

                                          > Dear Ole,
                                          >
                                          > Your posts are useful and of interest, but could you
                                          > possibly stop
                                          > "top-posting" -- your most recent message was a.good
                                          > example. If you do not
                                          > know what top-posting is and why it is to be
                                          > avoided, please do a google
                                          > search for details.

                                          I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                                          always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                                          message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                          confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                                          Gunnar
                                        • Stephen Hodge
                                          Dear Gunnar, ... One should use one s common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
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                                            Dear Gunnar,

                                            > I disagree about the principle that top-posting should
                                            > always be avoided. Bottom-posting an answer to a
                                            > message which fills the entire screen may be very
                                            > confusing, as you don't see the answer at once.

                                            One should use one's common sense -- but that is not quite what is meant by
                                            top-posting. Top-posting is generally understood to be piling up message
                                            after message in replies back and forth without deleting all that is
                                            redundant. I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                                            uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                                            top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                            There are several issues here. If messages are archived by a group, it
                                            makes searching topics / threads confusing. Also, many people have slow
                                            connections AND have to pay by the minute for connection times (like me) --
                                            if everybody did the same as Ole, then my phone bill would steadily increase
                                            with no benefit to me.

                                            Generally, it is regarded as good netiquette to snip out = [snip] and only
                                            quote the necessary pieces of a previous message that are required to make
                                            sense. In fact, if you do not do this and top-post, as I have described, in
                                            some groups such as the academic H-NET ones, your message does not get
                                            posted.

                                            So, no big deal really, but just a question of mindfulness.

                                            Best wishes,
                                            Stephen Hodge
                                          • Ong Yong Peng
                                            Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends, I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is advised that members be mindful of the issue. All
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 5, 2005
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                                              Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                                              I agree that it is unsightly to have the trailing garbage, and it is
                                              advised that members be mindful of the issue. All Yahoo! Groups'
                                              messages come with a footer, either the moderator insert one (as is
                                              for this group) or Yahoo! will put in a default footer, pointing the
                                              receipient to Yahoo! Terms of Service, etc.

                                              Together with this footer is advertisements, which is known as
                                              sponsored links. These are generated each time a message is issued
                                              from Yahoo! server. So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                                              them off.


                                              metta,
                                              Yong Peng.



                                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                                              if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                                              three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                            • Ole Holten Pind
                                              _____ Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong Peng Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24 Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com Emne: [Pali]
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
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                                                _____

                                                Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong
                                                Peng
                                                Sendt: 6. november 2005 01:24
                                                Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                                Emne: [Pali] Re: Top-posting


                                                Dear Stephen, Gunnar, Ole and friends,

                                                So, they would just keep piling up if no one trim
                                                them off.


                                                I agree,

                                                The inconvenience of dealing with the barbage just never ccurred to me. I
                                                have a very fast connection..

                                                Ole Pind


                                                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Stephen Hodge wrote:

                                                if you look at his last message, you will see that he top-posted onto
                                                three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.
                                              • Ong Yong Peng
                                                Dear Rene and friends, thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                                                • 0 Attachment
                                                  Dear Rene and friends,

                                                  thanks for the information. You are always welcome to put useful
                                                  documents in the Files section. However, please ensure it is not
                                                  duplicated. If there is any problem, please write to me offlist.
                                                  Thank you.


                                                  metta,
                                                  Yong Peng.



                                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rsalm wrote:

                                                  I have a Word document with the 1,000 most common Pali words. Don't
                                                  have a URL source, and am not sure where on the web it comes from. It
                                                  lists the word and the frequency count. 'Hoti' is #1 (26150
                                                  times). 'pajahati' comes in at 707 times. Don't know if this is just
                                                  the Suttapitaka. Will try to attach it to this message. It's 88 kb (5
                                                  pages). Alternatively, Yong Peng may want to place it in the file
                                                  section of the list. If it doesn't go through, we'll have to think of
                                                  something else.
                                                • rett
                                                  ... That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That s why it became so
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Nov 6, 2005
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    > I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
                                                    >uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
                                                    >top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.

                                                    That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That's why it became so long.

                                                    best regards,

                                                    /Rett
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