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Re: siiha ... lion's roar?

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear Frank, Stephen, Rett, Charlie and friends, thanks for the interesting discussion. I have always been wondering of the origin of the Chinese s Lion Dance.
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 6, 2005
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      Dear Frank, Stephen, Rett, Charlie and friends,

      thanks for the interesting discussion. I have always been wondering
      of the origin of the Chinese's Lion Dance.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_dance

      I think the well-travelled ones may have encountered lions (hopefully
      in captivity) in their journeys. Besides the Lion Dance, you may also
      find a pair of stone lions sitting at the entrance of (large) Chinese
      residences, temples, gardens or even government offices.

      http://www.adagiomarine.com/year2001/images_xmas_hobart/F00016.html

      I think the concept of lion being the king of all animals probably
      can be traced back to Indian origins, and permeates all of Asia. Even
      the name of Singapore means Lion City, in Malay it is Singapura, in
      Pali it would be Siihapura!

      metta,
      Yong Peng.


      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rett wrote:

      "Asiatic lion

      It is the only remaining habitat of the Asiatic lion, which has been
      confined to this forest, since 1884 ( about 239 lions were reported
      in 1985 ).The Asiatic lion is slightly smaller than its African
      cousin, nevertheless, a large male lion of the Gir is quite a sight
      to behold"

      http://www.cultureholidays.com/wildlife/gir-national-park-and-
      sanctuary.htm
    • Gunnar Gällmo
      ... And in Sanskrit Si mhapura , which I suppose is perhaps the original form. And Buddhaghosa s commentaries were based on a previous commentary in the lion
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 6, 2005
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        --- Ong Yong Peng <yongpeng.ong@...> skrev:

        > Even
        > the name of Singapore means Lion City, in Malay it
        > is Singapura, in
        > Pali it would be Siihapura!

        And in Sanskrit "Si"mhapura", which I suppose is
        perhaps the original form.

        And Buddhaghosa's commentaries were based on a
        previous commentary in the lion language -
        Si"mhala/Siihala.

        And Ceilão/Ceylon is the Lion Island.

        Gunnar



        gunnargallmo@...
      • frank
        Hi all, Thanks for the illuminating discussion on Indian lions still in existence, stories and origins of nagas in different cultures. As far as lion s roar
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 6, 2005
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          Hi all,
          Thanks for the illuminating discussion on Indian lions still in
          existence, stories and origins of nagas in different cultures.

          As far as "lion's roar" in the context of the Buddha or arahant
          delivering a discourse, I'm still wondering for which reason that expression
          was chosen:
          1) lion's roar being the most impressive and dominant sound emanating from
          the jungle, just as an arahant proclaiming dhamma in the world has a
          similarly impressive effect.
          2) lion being the king of the jungle, i.e. in a one on one battle with any
          jungle creature, the lion would emerge victorious. Similarly, in a one on
          one battle, the dhamma would conquer and completely obliterate any other
          doctrine.
          3) both 1) and 2)


          My inclination would be to go with option (3), but I wonder whether the lion
          actually is the king of the jungle if it came down to physical
          confrontations. Can an animal expert comment on who would win these battles?
          1) lion vs. tiger
          2) lion vs. elephant
          3) lion vs. rhino
          4) rhino vs. elephant

          As far as who actually has the loudest most impressive voice, again I don't
          know the answer to this. Perhaps an elephant actually has the loudest voice,
          but the reaction of the other jungle creatures is more like, "Ok, it's just
          a plant eating herbivore. We better mosey on out of their way so they don't
          trample us, but otherwise no problem." Whereas when they hear a lion,
          they're like, Ack!! there's a pissed off and hungry carnivore in close
          proximity. Run! Run like the wind!"

          -fk
        • seisen_au
          Hi Frank and All, ... expression ... Siihasutta.m - The Lion. Bhikkhus, the lion, king of beasts in the evening comes out of his den arouses himself, looks in
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 7, 2005
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            Hi Frank and All,

            >frank wrote:
            > As far as "lion's roar" in the context of the Buddha or arahant
            > delivering a discourse, I'm still wondering for which reason that
            expression
            > was chosen:

            Siihasutta.m - The Lion.

            Bhikkhus, the lion, king of beasts in the evening comes out of his
            den arouses himself, looks in the four directions, roars three times
            and goes in search of food. Bhikkhus, the animals who hear the lion's
            roar become frightened and shivering much - those living in holes
            enter their holes, those living in water, enter the water, those
            living in the forest enter the forest and birds fly away. The king's
            elephants securely bound in villages and hamlets, break their bonds
            and frightened and shivering, throw urine and excreta and run in all
            directions. Bhikkhus, so powerful is the lion, the king of beasts.

            Bhikkhus, in like manner when the Thus Gone One is born in the world,
            worthy and rightfully enlightened, endowed with knowledge and
            conduct, well gone, knower of the worlds, the incomparable tamer of
            those to be tamed, the teacher of gods and men, enlightened and
            blessed. He declares the Teaching- This is the individual, this its
            arising, this its cessation and this is the path to the cessation of
            the individual. Bhikkhus, those gods enjoying long life born into
            pleasantness established long, in lofty palaces, they too hearing the
            Teaching become anxious and frightened and think-We being impermanent
            thought were permanent. Not lasting forever, we thought we would last
            forever. We too are impermanent, changeful, do not last forever are
            an embodiment of an individual. . Bhikkhus, the Thus Gone One is so
            powerful and wields power over the world. .

            http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-
            Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/004-cakkavaggo-e.htm

            Steve
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