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A passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika

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  • Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen
    Dear friends I am confused by a passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika, inclined to think the reading may be corrupt. However, I am not sure, any comment is very
    Message 1 of 7 , Sep 3 7:06 PM
      Dear friends

      I am confused by a passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika, inclined to
      think the reading may be corrupt. However, I am not sure, any comment
      is very much appreciated.

      Visuddhimagga-mahatika vol. II p.482 (CSCD) reads,

      Tattha dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m vut.t.haanagaaminiiti vuttaa
      dhammat.t.hitiya.m pat.iccasamuppaade asammuyhanavasena pavattanato.

      I think 'vuttaa' may be corrupted, and the right reading should
      be 'vutta.m' so that it would aggre with 'dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m'.

      with metta

      Tzungkuen



      May you be free from mental and physical suffering
      May you be peaceful and happy.

      My website:http://home.kimo.com.tw/vipassanacenter/
    • Ole Holten Pind
      The reading vuttaa is correct. If you take a look at the Visuddhimagga passage commented upon you will notice that the term qualified by vuttaa is vipassanaa,
      Message 2 of 7 , Sep 4 1:48 AM
        The reading vuttaa is correct. If you take a look at the Visuddhimagga
        passage commented upon you will notice that the term qualified by vuttaa is
        vipassanaa, therefore the feminine termination aa.

        Hope this helps.

        With kind regards,

        Ole Holten Pind

        -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Mr
        Tzung-Kuen Wen
        Sendt: 4. september 2005 04:07
        Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
        Emne: [Pali] A passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika

        Dear friends

        I am confused by a passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika, inclined to
        think the reading may be corrupt. However, I am not sure, any comment
        is very much appreciated.

        Visuddhimagga-mahatika vol. II p.482 (CSCD) reads,

        Tattha dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m vut.t.haanagaaminiiti vuttaa
        dhammat.t.hitiya.m pat.iccasamuppaade asammuyhanavasena pavattanato.

        I think 'vuttaa' may be corrupted, and the right reading should
        be 'vutta.m' so that it would aggre with 'dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m'.

        with metta

        Tzungkuen



        May you be free from mental and physical suffering
        May you be peaceful and happy.

        My website:http://home.kimo.com.tw/vipassanacenter/





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      • Nina van Gorkom
        Dear Tzung-Kuen, I am interested in your project. I cannot use CSCD, but is this Ch 17? Ole answered it already. Do you print your translation of the Tiika? I
        Message 3 of 7 , Sep 4 12:17 PM
          Dear Tzung-Kuen,
          I am interested in your project. I cannot use CSCD, but is this Ch 17? Ole
          answered it already.
          Do you print your translation of the Tiika?
          I am at Ch XIV, but I only write summaries of the tiika. The project leader
          wants to jump to Ch 17 later on.
          Nina.
          op 04-09-2005 04:06 schreef Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen op s4060239@...:

          >>
          > Visuddhimagga-mahatika vol. II p.482 (CSCD) reads,
          >
          > Tattha dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m vut.t.haanagaaminiiti vuttaa
          > dhammat.t.hitiya.m pat.iccasamuppaade asammuyhanavasena pavattanato.
          >
          >
          >
          > May you be free from mental and physical suffering
          > May you be peaceful and happy.
          >
          > My website:http://home.kimo.com.tw/vipassanacenter/
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
          > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
          > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
          > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
          > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
          > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
          > only.
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Ole Holten Pind
          Dear Nina, If I recall corectly it is chap. 21. The passage in question occurs towards the end of it. Best, Ole ... Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 7 , Sep 4 12:25 PM
            Dear Nina,

            If I recall corectly it is chap. 21. The passage in question occurs towards
            the end of it.

            Best,

            Ole

            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
            Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Nina van
            Gorkom
            Sendt: 4. september 2005 21:17
            Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
            Emne: Re: [Pali] A passage from Visuddhimagga-mahatika

            Dear Tzung-Kuen,
            I am interested in your project. I cannot use CSCD, but is this Ch 17? Ole
            answered it already.
            Do you print your translation of the Tiika?
            I am at Ch XIV, but I only write summaries of the tiika. The project leader
            wants to jump to Ch 17 later on.
            Nina.
            op 04-09-2005 04:06 schreef Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen op s4060239@...:

            >>
            > Visuddhimagga-mahatika vol. II p.482 (CSCD) reads,
            >
            > Tattha dhammat.t.hiti~naan.a.m vut.t.haanagaaminiiti vuttaa
            > dhammat.t.hitiya.m pat.iccasamuppaade asammuyhanavasena pavattanato.
            >
            >
            >
            > May you be free from mental and physical suffering
            > May you be peaceful and happy.
            >
            > My website:http://home.kimo.com.tw/vipassanacenter/
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
            web
            > only.
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




            - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
            Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
            only.
            Yahoo! Groups Links
          • Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen
            Dear Nina Sorry! I have no project on Mahatika because it s too difficult for me.^^ I try to read passages from Mahatika only when I want to know the
            Message 5 of 7 , Sep 4 6:41 PM
              Dear Nina

              Sorry! I have no project on Mahatika because it's too difficult for
              me.^^
              I try to read passages from Mahatika only when I want to know the
              expositions given by Mahatika of some technical terms from the
              Buddhist Canon.

              By the way, I do have a quesion related to Abhidhamma for you. Some
              say gene is utuja-rupa, others say it is kammaja-rupa. What is your
              opinion?

              with metta

              Tzungkuen

              May you be free from mental and physical suffering
              May you be peaceful and happy.



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Nina van Gorkom
              Dear Tzungkuen, as to vasena, I meet this all the time, also today in the Tiika. Vasa; control, influence. Vasena, this has become an expression. translated as
              Message 6 of 7 , Sep 5 11:17 AM
                Dear Tzungkuen,
                as to vasena, I meet this all the time, also today in the Tiika.
                Vasa; control, influence. Vasena, this has become an expression. translated
                as you say: as to, with regard to, according to.
                There are different items summed up in a text, different aspects and then
                explained one by one. Vasena is used to refer to these.
                Vis. XIV, 186:...tattha ruupa.m taava addhaasantatisamayakha.navasena
                catudhaa atiita.m
                naama hoti. tathaa anaagatapaccuppanna.m.
                The present, is classified according to addhaasantatisamayakha.na. vasena:
                according to: extent (addhaa), to continuity, to period, to moment.

                op 05-09-2005 03:41 schreef Mr Tzung-Kuen Wen op s4060239@...:
                >
                > By the way, I do have a quesion related to Abhidhamma for you. Some
                > say gene is utuja-rupa, others say it is kammaja-rupa. What is your
                > opinion?
                ---------
                N: Ruupas are classified as 28 and rupas arise and fall away in groups,
                kalapas. The groups of ruupa of the body are produced by four factors: by
                kamma, citta, nutrition and heat. All these groups arise and then fall away
                immediately, and so long as there are conditions ruupas are replaced by new
                ruupas.
                There is no gene among the 28 ruupas that arise because of condiitons and
                then fall away very quickly. This is a conventional term used in science,
                not an ultimate dhamma or paramattha dhamma. The purpose of the Dhamma is
                not: knowing about science but understanding of aniccaa, dukkha, anattaa
                that leads to emancipation.
                The field of science has its own merit, it can help people, but it should be
                distinguished from the Dhamma. If one tries to combine both it leads to
                confusion as I see it.
                Nina.
              • A-Kuen
                Dear Nina Many thanks for your reply. I think the only way to get used to various usages of vasena is to read more Pali commentarial passages. As to gene, I
                Message 7 of 7 , Sep 5 5:57 PM
                  Dear Nina

                  Many thanks for your reply.

                  I think the only way to get used to various usages of 'vasena' is to
                  read more Pali commentarial passages.

                  As to gene, I think you're right to say it's not paramattha dhamma,
                  and we should be careful when we talk about the similarity between
                  science and Dhamma.

                  with metta

                  Tzungkuen

                  > ---------
                  > N: Ruupas are classified as 28 and rupas arise and fall away in
                  groups,
                  > kalapas. The groups of ruupa of the body are produced by four
                  factors: by
                  > kamma, citta, nutrition and heat. All these groups arise and then
                  fall away
                  > immediately, and so long as there are conditions ruupas are
                  replaced by new
                  > ruupas.
                  > There is no gene among the 28 ruupas that arise because of
                  condiitons and
                  > then fall away very quickly. This is a conventional term used in
                  science,
                  > not an ultimate dhamma or paramattha dhamma. The purpose of the
                  Dhamma is
                  > not: knowing about science but understanding of aniccaa, dukkha,
                  anattaa
                  > that leads to emancipation.
                  > The field of science has its own merit, it can help people, but it
                  should be
                  > distinguished from the Dhamma. If one tries to combine both it
                  leads to
                  > confusion as I see it.
                  > Nina.
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