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Spiritual friendship [Re: I Love All Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis]

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  • Ong Yong Peng
    Dear friends, thanks to Michael Olds, below is a nice little passage which he offers me offline, and I would like to share with everyone. This passage speaks
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
      Dear friends,

      thanks to Michael Olds, below is a nice little passage which he
      offers me offline, and I would like to share with everyone. This
      passage speaks of the value of solitude as a cherished Buddhist
      tradition:


      It is not brilliant, Ananda,
      for a beggar to resort to association,
      to resort to taking pleasure from association,
      to be intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
      to resort to gatherings,
      to resort to taking pleasure from gatherings,
      to enjoy gatherings.

      For a beggar, Ananda,
      who resorts to association,
      who resorts to taking pleasure from association,
      who is intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
      who resorts to gatherings,
      who resorts to taking pleasure from gatherings,
      who enjoys gatherings
      that such a one should get pleasure from renunciation,
      get pleasure from solitude,
      get pleasure from calm,
      get pleasure from self-awakening,
      that such a one should enjoy the pleasure
      of progress without trouble,
      without aggrivation —
      such a thing is not to be seen.

      But, Ananda, for a beggar,
      who lives alone,
      secluded from associations
      that such a one should get pleasure from renunciation,
      get pleasure from solitude,
      get pleasure from calm,
      get pleasure from self-awakening,
      that such a one should enjoy the pleasure
      of progress without trouble,
      without aggrivation —
      such a thing is to be seen.

      For a beggar, Ananda,
      who resorts to association,
      who resorts to taking pleasure from association,
      who is intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
      who resorts to gatherings,
      who resorts to taking pleasure from gatherings,
      who enjoys gatherings
      to enter into and reside in
      either the time-bound and happy,
      or the non-time-bound and unshakable hearts release —
      such a thing is not to be seen.

      But, Ananda, for a beggar,
      who lives alone,
      secluded from associations
      to enter into and reside in
      either the time-bound and happy,
      or the non-time-bound and unshakable hearts release —
      such a thing is to be seen.

      --MN 122
    • rjkjp1
      Dear Yong Peng, I think there are different types of solitude: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/samyutta/sn21-010.html the Blessed One said to him, Is it
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
        Dear Yong Peng,
        I think there are different types of solitude:
        http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/samyutta/sn21-010.html
        the Blessed One said to him, "Is it true, Elder, that you live
        alone and extol the virtues of living alone?" ... "Yes,
        lord." ... "But how do you live alone and extol the virtues of
        living alone?" ... "Lord, alone I enter the village for alms, alone
        I return, alone I sit
        withdrawn, alone I do walking meditation. That is how I
        live alone and extol the virtues of living alone." ...

        BUDDHA:"There is
        that way of living alone, Elder. I don't say that there isn't.
        Still,
        listen well to you how your living alone is perfected in its
        details,
        and pay close attention. I will speak." ... "As you say, lord,"
        Ven. Elder responded. ... The Blessed One said: "And how is living
        alone perfected in its details? There is the case where whatever is
        past is abandoned, whatever is future is relinquished, and any
        passion & desire with regard to states of being attained in the
        present is well subdued. That is how living alone is perfected in
        its
        details."
        Robertk


        In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <yongpeng.ong@g...> wrote:
        > Dear friends,
        >
        > thanks to Michael Olds, below is a nice little passage which he
        > offers me offline, and I would like to share with everyone. This
        > passage speaks of the value of solitude as a cherished Buddhist
        > tradition:
        >
        >
        > It is not brilliant, Ananda,
        > for a beggar to resort to association,
        > to resort to taking pleasure from association,
        > to be intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
        > to resort to gatherings,
        > to resort to taking pleasure from gatherings,
        > to enjoy gatherings.
        >
        >
      • Piya Tan
        Sumana, You might already know that your name means good (su) mind (mana). Although I am not impressed with the rampant spiritual materialism of many
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
          Sumana,

          You might already know that your name means "good" (su) "mind" (mana).

          Although I am not impressed with the rampant spiritual materialism of many Sinhalese
          monks, I remember with happiness my first taste of temporary monkhood with Bhante
          Gunaratana when he was in Malaysia over 3 decades back.

          I am profoundly happy to know that he has taken up meditation and not merely become a
          "Venerable Doctor" for whom the letter is  above the spirit, or the spirit becomes so
          watered down until it intoxicates.

          Sadhu to good monks: may we meet more of them.

          Piya

          paulocuana wrote:

          > Dear Yong Peng,
          >
          > My teacher Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, Nayaka Thera,(Bhante G.) gave
          > me a Pali name recently.  Where else can I use a Pali name? :)
          >
          > With Metta,
          > Sumana
          >
          > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <yongpeng.ong@g...>
          > > Btw, Sumana, why is there a recent change in name?
          > >
          > >
          > > metta,
          > > Yong Peng.
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, paulocuana wrote:
          > >
          > > Not only did I not have a specific monk in mind, I also did not
          > have
          > > a specific Western philosopher in mind.  Just exchanging ideas. It
          > > was unfortunate that there was a name in the subject line.  It was
          > > the subject line of the post I responded to and I wouldn't have
          > > thought to change it since people look to the subject line for
          > > responses to their posts and I don't like to edit what others
          > write.
          >
          >
          > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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          >  
        • Piya Tan
          Yong Peng, The Pali word for beggar is yaacaka, and monks & nuns are now allowed to beg is not allowed according to the Vinaya. So we have semantic as well
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
            Yong Peng,

            The Pali word for "beggar" is yaacaka, and monks & nuns are now allowed to beg is not
            allowed according to the Vinaya.

            So we have semantic as well as ethical issues problems.

            I have personally communicated this to Michael.

            Or perhaps we can forget about Pali at least for this moment and humour ourselves.

            Sukhi

            Piya

            Ong Yong Peng wrote:

            > Dear friends,
            >
            > thanks to Michael Olds, below is a nice little passage which he
            > offers me offline, and I would like to share with everyone. This
            > passage speaks of the value of solitude as a cherished Buddhist
            > tradition:
            >
            > It is not brilliant, Ananda,
            > for a beggar to resort to association,
            > to resort to taking pleasure from association,
            > to be intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
            > to resort to gatherings,
            > to resort to taking pleasure from gatherings,
            > to enjoy gatherings.
            >
            > For a beggar, Ananda,
            > who resorts to association,
            > who resorts to taking pleasure from association,
            > who is intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
            > who resorts to gatherings,
            > who resorts to taking pleasure from gatherings,
            > who enjoys gatherings
            > that such a one should get pleasure from renunciation,
            > get pleasure from solitude,
            > get pleasure from calm,
            > get pleasure from self-awakening,
            > that such a one should enjoy the pleasure
            > of progress without trouble,
            > without aggrivation —
            > such a thing is not to be seen.
            >
            > But, Ananda, for a beggar,
            > who lives alone,
            > secluded from associations
            > that such a one should get pleasure from renunciation,
            > get pleasure from solitude,
            > get pleasure from calm,
            > get pleasure from self-awakening,
            > that such a one should enjoy the pleasure
            > of progress without trouble,
            > without aggrivation —
            > such a thing is to be seen.
            >
            > For a beggar, Ananda,
            > who resorts to association,
            > who resorts to taking pleasure from association,
            > who is intent on the pleasure of resorting with associates,
            > who resorts to gatherings,
            > who resorts to taking pleasure from gatherings,
            > who enjoys gatherings
            > to enter into and reside in
            > either the time-bound and happy,
            > or the non-time-bound and unshakable hearts release —
            > such a thing is not to be seen.
            >
            > But, Ananda, for a beggar,
            > who lives alone,
            > secluded from associations
            > to enter into and reside in
            > either the time-bound and happy,
            > or the non-time-bound and unshakable hearts release —
            > such a thing is to be seen.
            >
            > --MN 122
            >
            >
            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
            > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
            > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >  
          • Sumana
            Dear Piya, Thank you for your kind note. Bhante Gunaratana is indeed doing well. At the age of 77 he has been in robes for 65 years. I think I m most
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 6, 2005
              Dear Piya,

              Thank you for your kind note. Bhante Gunaratana is
              indeed doing well. At the age of 77 he has been in
              robes for 65 years.
              I think I'm most impressed by his drive and his
              ability to see things anew. For example, he has been
              teaching the Jhaanas for some years now even though
              for most of his time in robes it was considered taboo.
              You probably already know that he is the Abbot of the
              Bhaavanaa Society Forest Monastery.
              http://www.bhavana.us/

              With Metta,
              Sumana

              --- Piya Tan <libris@...> wrote:

              > Sumana,
              >
              > You might already know that your name means "good"
              > (su) "mind" (mana).
              >
              > Although I am not impressed with the rampant
              > spiritual materialism of many Sinhalese
              > monks, I remember with happiness my first taste of
              > temporary monkhood with Bhante
              > Gunaratana when he was in Malaysia over 3 decades
              > back.
              >
              > I am profoundly happy to know that he has taken up
              > meditation and not merely become a
              > "Venerable Doctor" for whom the letter is  above the
              > spirit, or the spirit becomes so
              > watered down until it intoxicates.
              >
              > Sadhu to good monks: may we meet more of them.
              >
              > Piya
              >
              > paulocuana wrote:
              >
              > > Dear Yong Peng,
              > >
              > > My teacher Bhante Henepola Gunaratana, Nayaka
              > Thera,(Bhante G.) gave
              > > me a Pali name recently.  Where else can I use a
              > Pali name? :)
              > >
              > > With Metta,
              > > Sumana
              > >
              > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng"
              > <yongpeng.ong@g...>
              > > > Btw, Sumana, why is there a recent change in
              > name?
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > metta,
              > > > Yong Peng.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, paulocuana wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Not only did I not have a specific monk in mind,
              > I also did not
              > > have
              > > > a specific Western philosopher in mind.  Just
              > exchanging ideas. It
              > > > was unfortunate that there was a name in the
              > subject line.  It was
              > > > the subject line of the post I responded to and
              > I wouldn't have
              > > > thought to change it since people look to the
              > subject line for
              > > > responses to their posts and I don't like to
              > edit what others
              > > write.
              > >
              > >
              > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > - - - - - -
              > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
              > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
              > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery
              > options to daily digest or web only.
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >  
              >
              >
              >
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            • Kumaara Bhikkhu
              Since we re talking about bhikkhus here, I thought I should say something. :-) Are we allowed to beg? If I were to stand in a public place with a bowl in hand,
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 10, 2005
                Since we're talking about bhikkhus here, I thought I should say something. :-)

                Are we allowed to beg?

                If I were to stand in a public place with a bowl in hand, and ask for food, e.g., "Can you please give me some chapati or cucuk-kodok or tao-fu-fah (some Malaysian food)," that's begging, right?

                But if I were to stand quietly in a public place with a bowl in hand, and people put food into it without me actually *begging* for it, that should be allowable, shouldn't it?

                So, what's the "ethical issues problems"?

                kb

                At 09:54 AM 07-06-05, Piya Tan wrote:
                >Yong Peng,
                >
                >The Pali word for "beggar" is yaacaka, and monks & nuns are now allowed to beg is not
                >allowed according to the Vinaya.
                >
                >So we have semantic as well as ethical issues problems.
                >
                >I have personally communicated this to Michael.
                >
                >Or perhaps we can forget about Pali at least for this moment and humour ourselves.
                >
                >Sukhi
                >
                >Piya
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