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RE: Commentaries {Re: Re-reading the Pali Canon {Re: [Pali] Re: Bhikkhuni ordination and the Vinaya}}

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  • Yuttadhammo
    ... Venerable Sir, What occurs in between if not another immediate bhava (rebirth)? Or are you talking about rebirth in terms of jaati ? Of course, then it
    Message 1 of 59 , May 30, 2005
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      > Heck, there are even some suttas that I can't honestly trust.
      > I know that one of them is rather obviously edited:
      > Dakkhinavibhanga Sutta (MN142). The Mahavihara Commentaries
      > on the other hand introduce ideas unsupported and seemingly
      > contradicted by the suttas, such as the idea that rebirth is
      > necessarily immediate.

      Venerable Sir,

      What occurs in between if not another immediate bhava (rebirth)? Or are you
      talking about rebirth in terms of "jaati"? Of course, then it is never
      immediate, as it requires bhava first.

      > This reminds me of the Buddha's advise to the Kalamas to not
      > go by "a collection of scriptures" (although this seems to
      > contradict the somewhat dogmatic Four Great Standards.) This
      > is a bit hard for me to accept, having placed so much faith
      > in the Pali scriptures in the past, but evidence has been
      > revealed to me and I have unwillingly but eventually gladly
      > awaken from that slumber.

      It's funny, that sounds like the "God Buddha" followers I read about...
      their teaching was also "revealed" to them (of course, by the Buddha
      himself...) He told them, according to this book, that they should no
      longer use the spelling "Buddha" to refer to Him, but they should now use
      "Puttha" because, they say, He is Thai, and that's how the Thai people
      pronounce it. :)

      The Pali scriptures seem fine to me... just like an old car, you say it's
      old and beat up, but I say it get's me where I need to go... Do you think
      that by following the teaching in the Pali scriptures and commentaries that
      I might fall off the path to enlightenment?

      Respectfully,

      Avuso Yuttadhammo (3 vassa)
    • Piya Tan
      Bhante Kumara, Here is my paper on Mahapajapati. Hope it is useful. Namakkara.m Piya ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      Message 59 of 59 , Jun 4, 2005
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        Bhante Kumara,

        Here is my paper on Mahapajapati. Hope it is useful.

        Namakkara.m

        Piya

        Kumaara Bhikkhu wrote:

        > At 01:05 PM 30-05-05, Ngawang Dorje wrote:
        > >> Heck, there are even some suttas that I can't honestly trust. I know that one of them is rather obviously edited: Dakkhinavibhanga Sutta (MN142). <
        > >
        > >May I know why you said that the sutta is edited?
        >
        > I'm sure Piya can give you a very complete answer to that, but for a start, let me point out something rather glaring.
        >
        > According to the sutta, MahaPajapati Gotami, still a lay follower, wished to offer robe cloth to the Buddha, who then asked her to give it to the Sangha instead. Then, the Buddha supposedly mentioned the BhikkhuniSangha as if it already existed. Since it is exceedingly plain in the Mahavagga of the Vinaya Pitaka that MahaPajapati Gotami was the first bhikkhuni, how can we reconcile this?
        >
        > For details, see MLDB, p1349, n1291.
        >
        > To reconcile this, we have to either conclude that either this sutta has been edited or the Mahavagga (or both!). I'm inclined to believe that it is the sutta and would like to hear more about it from Piya. Over to you, Bro. Piya.
        >
        > peace
        >
        > Kum�ra Bhikkhu
        >
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