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Re: [Pali] Re: Mahaasatipa.t.thaanasutta.m

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  • "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko (Дмитро Ол
    Bhante Yuttadhammo, ... For a comprehensive analysis of this word please see the excellent book The Buddhist Path to Awakening by the current President of
    Message 1 of 32 , May 1, 2005
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      Bhante Yuttadhammo,

      > I am still not convinced :)

      For a comprehensive analysis of this word please see the excellent book
      "The Buddhist Path to Awakening" by the current President of Pali Text
      Society Rupert Gethin, pp. 59-66. There he gives as well Jataka usage
      which you quoted. As it often happens with Jatakas, meaning of this word
      in them is somewhat different from Sutta usage.

      > I would suggest that it is better to leave a broader translation here than
      > "leading to only one place" or "the direct way to the one". The word
      > "direct" is not used, and neither is the word "leading". The words that are
      > included in the compound are "eka=one, certain, only" and "ayana" = "going
      > (as a noun), way (from "i"=to go)".

      Thus "going to one (place)".

      > If we consider only the Satipatthana Sutta, we have the Lord Buddha's words
      > that the four foundations of mindfulness are at least one way to Nibbaana,
      > but then we see that "this way" (the eightfold noble path) is the only way
      > (natth'a~n~na.m).

      You probably mean Dhammapada 274.

      > So surely Satipatthana practice must also be the only
      > way, and also be the same way, or else we cannot reconcile the Buddha's
      > words.

      I see your point, however I won't equalise the Eightfold noble path with
      Satipatthana practice as a method. For example, in Vera~njaka.n.da
      (Vin. iii 1.11) it is described how different Buddhas apply quite
      different methods of Eightfold path.

      The notion of exclusivity, when applied to one particular method, may
      lead to sectarianism. It is not an only method - for example, some
      people attained Nibbana after short conversation with Buddha.

      In translation "leading to Nibbana and nowhere else" I see optimistic
      exhortation. Satipatthana itself is an embodiment of multiple
      alternatives of reaching Nibbana via either of four satipatthanas.

      > It seems to be the same path, and this sameness is carried over to the
      > eightfold noble path by the commentary, as Nina points out:
      >
      > Why is the Arousing of Mindfulness intended by the word "way"? Are there not
      > many other factors of the way, namely, understanding, thinking, speech,
      > action, livelihood, effort, and concentration, besides mindfulness? To be
      > sure there are. But all these are implied when the Arousing of Mindfulness
      > is mentioned, because these factors exist in union with mindfulness.

      There is indeed a connection. Each sutta, Satipatthana included, is like
      an aspect of a wonderful gem of Eightfold path.

      Satipatthana offers unique multidimensional perspective of the Path -
      four satipatthanas as one dimension, seven bojjhangas as second
      dimension, varieties of practice as third dimension.

      However to say that an aspect is a gem would be an exaggeration.

      With metta, Dmytro
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Ven. Sujato, Ven. Yuttadhammo, Stephen and friends, Bhante, how true! It had never occurred to me that Dhammakaya is related to Chinese Buddhism. But,
      Message 32 of 32 , May 6, 2005
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        Dear Ven. Sujato, Ven. Yuttadhammo, Stephen and friends,

        Bhante, how true! It had never occurred to me that Dhammakaya is
        related to Chinese Buddhism. But, since you mention it, I believe it
        is making reference to the Tri-kaya concept (which isn't of Chinese
        origin) in Mahayana.

        I think they have probably got it wrong. The Dhammakaya (or
        Dharmakaya) is simply the embodiment of truth. It means that the
        enlightenment of all Buddhas are undiscriminatorily equal, regardless
        of time and space. If it insists a 'physical' state of nibbana, it
        should be the Sambhagakaya. The third kaya is the Nirmanakaya. This
        concept is important in Mahayana, and it blends in with the
        Madhyamika's explanation of emptiness.


        metta,
        Yong Peng.

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bhante Sujato wrote:

        > > One very large group of "Buddhists" in Thailand has come out
        > > and proclaimed publicly that "Nibbana is Atta."

        It is worth noticing that this group emerged in Thailand as part of a
        movement in Thai culture from the 80's that started to re-acknowledge
        the Chinese roots of Thai culture. Bankok was in fact a Chinese
        trading port. One aspect of this is the adoption of aspects of
        Chinese Buddhism. For example, statues of Kwan Yin are common all
        over Thailand.

        But Dhammakaya has pursued this angle more consciously, claiming
        support for their Dhammakaya idea from Mahayana sutras.
        Unfortunately, few people in Thailand have read the Mahayana sutras,
        so apart from sectarian prejudice, they are unable to respond very
        meaningfully to this aspect of Dhammakaya's arguments.
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