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Re: [Pali] Re: gender

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  • Ven. Yuttadhammo
    Dear June, I agree, it is strange that some entries in the PED don t have gender... it might be that all of those nouns without stated gender are masculine...
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 31, 2005
      Dear June,

      I agree, it is strange that some entries in the PED don't have
      gender... it might be that all of those nouns without stated gender
      are masculine...

      > Thanks. Do you find this program useful? How do you use it? Because
      > I
      > think it's hard to look up words on there, I mean, I keep getting
      > blank lists for results, it's a bit irritating. I like their old
      > version better, because at least there are suggestions of what you
      > might be looking for. Also, I don't know what's wrong with my
      > computer, because before the Pali fonts used to work find, but now
      > I'm
      > seeing weird characters. Pali is totally not on my side!

      First of all, if you can't find the word, just type in the first one
      or two letters and then search - you'll find it easier that way.

      Second, I had the same problem with the Pali characters in PaliLookup,
      and I think this fixed the problem:

      Start/Settings/Control Panel/Regional and Language Options/Advanced
      (Tab)/Language for non-Unicode programs/ and set the language to
      "English (US)" - if it is set at "Thai", you will not get the proper
      characters.

      What is good about PaliLookup, is that you get the declensions for
      verbs and nouns. If you don't know what "pamuccatha" means for
      instance. You can't look it up in any dictionary, but in PaliLookup,
      you can search for "pamuc" and find it under "pamuccati" as the second
      person plural form (present or imperative tense). If you use
      PaliLookup along with the PED and the other Pali-English dictionary, I
      think it is quite useful for translating and composing Pali.

      Sabbadukkhaa pamuccatha,

      Yuttadhammo
    • junet9876
      Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, ... PaliLookup, ... This fixed it for me, too. Thank you very much, I think I was stuck on this problem since last year, but never
      Message 2 of 28 , Apr 1, 2005
        Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,

        >
        > Second, I had the same problem with the Pali characters in
        PaliLookup,
        > and I think this fixed the problem:
        >
        > Start/Settings/Control Panel/Regional and Language Options/Advanced
        > (Tab)/Language for non-Unicode programs/ and set the language to
        > "English (US)" - if it is set at "Thai", you will not get the proper
        > characters.

        This fixed it for me, too. Thank you very much, I think I was stuck on
        this problem since last year, but never bothered to put up a post or
        asked anyone, so the problem's never been solved.

        >
        > What is good about PaliLookup, is that you get the declensions for
        > verbs and nouns. If you don't know what "pamuccatha" means for
        > instance. You can't look it up in any dictionary, but in PaliLookup,
        > you can search for "pamuc" and find it under "pamuccati" as the
        second
        > person plural form (present or imperative tense). If you use
        > PaliLookup along with the PED and the other Pali-English dictionary, I
        > think it is quite useful for translating and composing Pali.

        Great tip. Thank you :) I was just looking for something that would do
        this. It lessens the headache.

        >
        > Sabbadukkhaa pamuccatha,

        Thank you! May you be freed from suffering, too.

        With respect,
        June
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear Ven. Pandita, Ven. Yuttadhammo, June, Stephen and friends, June: if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide for the book here:
        Message 3 of 28 , Apr 3, 2005
          Dear Ven. Pandita, Ven. Yuttadhammo, June, Stephen and friends,

          June: if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide
          for the book here: http://www.tipitaka.net/paliprimerguide.pdf

          The guide contains the complete list of words in the book, as well as a
          summary of the grammar topics covered in the book. Each word has an
          indication of class (part of speech), saving you the trouble from
          flipping through the pages or looking up a dictionary. Of course, you
          can still refer to a dictionary for additional information.

          If you are working on An Elementary Pali Course, I am in the process of
          preparing a similar guide for it. Its completion will be several months
          away, since I am still working through the book myself. However, I
          shall release the draft versions at different stages of the
          compilation. The first draft should be made available next week.


          metta,
          Yong Peng.
        • Ong Yong Peng
          Dear friends, the first working draft of the language guide is now available at http://www.tipitaka.net/palicourseguide.pdf This draft covers up to Lesson 7
          Message 4 of 28 , Apr 9, 2005
            Dear friends,

            the first working draft of the language guide is now available at
            http://www.tipitaka.net/palicourseguide.pdf

            This draft covers up to Lesson 7 inclusive. It is in PDF format, and
            I hope it is useful to those who plan to start their personal Pali
            study.

            The second draft will be available around Vesak Day in May.

            metta,
            Yong Peng.


            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

            if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide for
            the book here: http://www.tipitaka.net/paliprimerguide.pdf

            If you are working on An Elementary Pali Course, I am in the process
            of preparing a similar guide for it. Its completion will be several
            months away, since I am still working through the book myself.
            However, I shall release the draft versions at different stages of
            the compilation. The first draft should be made available next week.
          • Ven. Pandita
            Dear Yong Peng You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when you
            Message 5 of 28 , Apr 9, 2005
              Dear Yong Peng

              You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files in the
              file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when you plan to do
              it. I have some files to upload and I'm afraid they would take up too much
              space.

              with metta

              Ven. Pandita


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ong Yong Peng
              Dear Ven. Pandita and friends, Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space,
              Message 6 of 28 , Apr 10, 2005
                Dear Ven. Pandita and friends,

                Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am
                disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space, while
                the Files section has 20MB. But, what I will still do is to transfer
                up to 15MB of the files to Geocities. I will then set up an interface
                page similar to what we have now. This should be ready by this week.

                Information of the site's location will be given on the group's page,
                its Files and Links sections, and as a small text note in the footer
                of each message.

                metta,
                Yong Peng.

                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ven. Pandita wrote:

                You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files
                in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when
                you plan to do it. I have some files to upload and I'm afraid they
                would take up too much space.
              • Ong Yong Peng
                Dear Ven. Pandita and friends, so far, I have uploaded 5.1MB of files to Geocities. I will still be transferring another 9.9MB to fill up the entire 15MB of
                Message 7 of 28 , Apr 15, 2005
                  Dear Ven. Pandita and friends,

                  so far, I have uploaded 5.1MB of files to Geocities. I will still be
                  transferring another 9.9MB to fill up the entire 15MB of space as
                  much as possible. Due to the limited uploading quota I have, I will
                  have to do this in several phases in this two days. Please check the
                  following page for updates.

                  http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/

                  metta,
                  Yong Peng.


                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                  Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am
                  disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space, while
                  the Files section has 20MB. But, what I will still do is to transfer
                  up to 15MB of the files to Geocities. I will then set up an interface
                  page similar to what we have now. This should be ready by this week.

                  > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ven. Pandita wrote:
                  >
                  > You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some
                  > files in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good
                  > to know when you plan to do it. I have some files to upload
                  > and I'm afraid they would take up too much space.
                • Nina van Gorkom
                  Dear Yong Peng and friends, In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                    Dear Yong Peng and friends,

                    In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                    (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                    <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                    Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                    latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                    the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                    about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                    may be brought about by morality.>
                    Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                    kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness
                    as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness
                    as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                    easily a position of honour in society.
                    When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                    his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                    the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                    birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                    I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                    should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                    We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                    and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                    Womankind, § 34:
                    <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                    increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                    of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                    learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>

                    We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.

                    We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                    prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                    the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                    this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                    eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

                    Nina.
                  • Peter Tomlinson
                    Hooray for Nina van Gorkom, she cuts through obscuration to the heart of the Dhamma once more! Pete Tomlinson ________________________________ From: Nina van
                    Message 9 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                      Hooray for Nina van Gorkom, she cuts through obscuration to the heart of the Dhamma once more!
                      Pete Tomlinson





                      ________________________________
                      From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
                      To: pali@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 4:15:08 AM
                      Subject: [Pali] gender


                      Dear Yong Peng and friends,

                      In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                      (Atthasaalinii) , II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                      <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                      Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                      latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                      the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                      about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                      may be brought about by morality.>
                      Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                      kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousne ss
                      as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousne ss
                      as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                      easily a position of honour in society.
                      When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                      his rebirth-consciousne ss cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                      the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                      birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                      I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                      should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                      We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                      and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                      Womankind, § 34:
                      <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                      increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                      of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                      learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>

                      We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.

                      We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                      prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                      the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                      this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                      eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

                      Nina.


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • frank
                      Hi Nina, I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta central:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                        Hi Nina, I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                        central:
                        http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?subdivision_id=59&subdivision_name=Ekaka%20Nip%C4%81ta&collection_name=Pali&division=AN&acronym=1&type=Subdivision
                        Is it using the numbering scheme on the left column or 2nd column in
                        parenthesis?
                        -Frank


                        On 3/11/2010 2:15 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
                        >
                        > Dear Yong Peng and friends,
                        >
                        > In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                        > (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                        > <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                        > Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                        > latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                        > the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                        > about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                        > may be brought about by morality.>
                        > Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                        > kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness
                        > as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness
                        > as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                        > easily a position of honour in society.
                        > When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                        > his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                        > the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                        > birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                        > I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                        > should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                        > We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                        > and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                        > Womankind, § 34:
                        > <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                        > increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                        > of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                        > learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>
                        >
                        > We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.
                        >
                        > We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                        > prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                        > the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                        > this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                        > eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.
                        >
                        > Nina.
                        >
                        >



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Jim Anderson
                        Dear Nina, You wrote:
                        Message 11 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                          Dear Nina,

                          You wrote:
                          << In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                          (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                          <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                          Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                          latter may be brought about by *weak immorality*. But in disappearing,
                          the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                          about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                          may be brought about by morality.> >>

                          The part "weak immorality" which I've marked off above with two asterisks
                          should be "weak morality" according to the reading of the CSCD text:
                          itthili"nga.m dubbalakusalena pati.t.thaati (As 322) --- the feminine sex is
                          (re-)established through weak moral action or conduct. I would prefer
                          "strong immoral conduct" for "grossly immoral conduct" (balava-akusalena) in
                          contrast to "weak immoral conduct" (dubbala-akusalena).

                          Best wishes,
                          Jim
                        • Nina van Gorkom
                          Dear Jim, Thank you very much for the correction. Indeed, this was in the PTS text. Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                            Dear Jim,
                            Thank you very much for the correction. Indeed, this was in the PTS
                            text.
                            Nina.
                            Op 11-mrt-2010, om 17:06 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:

                            > The part "weak immorality" which I've marked off above with two
                            > asterisks
                            > should be "weak morality" according to the reading of the CSCD text:
                            > itthili"nga.m dubbalakusalena pati.t.thaati (As 322) --- the
                            > feminine sex is
                            > (re-)established through weak moral action or conduct. I would prefer
                            > "strong immoral conduct" for "grossly immoral conduct" (balava-
                            > akusalena) in
                            > contrast to "weak immoral conduct" (dubbala-akusalena).



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Nina van Gorkom
                            Dear Frank, I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on ... Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34. Does this help? I do not
                            Message 13 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
                              Dear Frank,
                              I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                              > Womankind, § 34.
                              Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34.
                              Does this help? I do not understand the method of sutta central, my
                              skill is very limited.
                              It is the last sutta of Sayings about womankind, Maatugaamasa.myutta.
                              Nina.

                              Op 11-mrt-2010, om 16:17 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

                              > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                              > central:
                              > http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Ong Yong Peng
                              Dear Nina and Frank, Nina s earlier A I,27 should refer to volume I page 27 of the PTS English print edition. It is a volume/page referencing system. Nowadays,
                              Message 14 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
                                Dear Nina and Frank,

                                Nina's earlier A I,27 should refer to volume I page 27 of the PTS English print edition. It is a volume/page referencing system.

                                Nowadays, most students would use the more "user-friendly" universal subdivision/sutta referencing system. There are differences in how such a system is implemented, but the differences can be numerically resolved easily.

                                AN1.15.12 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/9613

                                From AN1.15.12 to AN1.15.16, there are a total of 5 statements which describe what a woman may not become but a man may. These are 5 highest acclaimed positions/functions/roles in the Buddhist "universe". Such statements are based on the premise that there is a domineering gender in the society, and karma determines which gender one is born into.

                                metta,
                                Yong Peng.


                                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                                I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on Womankind, � 34.

                                Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, � 34.

                                > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta central
                              • frank
                                Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect, it lists the
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                  Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                  the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                  it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                  number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                  [A.1.15] after the explanation.

                                  -Frank

                                  On 3/12/2010 6:57 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Dear Frank,
                                  > I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                  > > Womankind, § 34.
                                  > Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34.
                                  > Does this help? I do not understand the method of sutta central, my
                                  > skill is very limited.
                                  > It is the last sutta of Sayings about womankind, Maatugaamasa.myutta.
                                  > Nina.
                                  >
                                  > Op 11-mrt-2010, om 16:17 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:
                                  >
                                  > > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                                  > > central:
                                  > > http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?
                                  > <http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?>
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Ong Yong Peng
                                  Dear Nina, thank you. This explanation in the Abhidhamma first establishes the male gender to be superior. Through observation in nature, we can see advantages
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                    Dear Nina,

                                    thank you. This explanation in the Abhidhamma first establishes the male gender to be superior. Through observation in nature, we can see advantages of the male sex anatomically and culturally. For example, it is obvious to see how strongly dependent on man (father, husband and son) a woman is in certain cultures. And then it explains that kamma (karma) determines if a person is born into the "superior" or "inferior" sex.

                                    Without first acknowledging one gender to be better than the other, the theory of kamma won't work. This is how I see it, in the Buddhist context to explain things using cause and effect, but not to explain "away" things so that we can turn a blind eye on suffering.

                                    So, this explanation in the Abhidhamma should not in anyway prevent any effort for creating favourable conditions for gender equality in our modern society. Neither should we use it as an excuse to bring further suffering to women.

                                    metta,
                                    Yong Peng.


                                    --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                                    In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                    <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior. Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing, the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and may be brought about by morality.>
                                    Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so easily a position of honour in society.
                                    When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha, his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones, I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                                  • Ngawang Dorje
                                    Hi,   For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:   Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The Impossibilities) 279.
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                      Hi,
                                       
                                      For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:
                                       
                                      Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The Impossibilities)
                                      279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
                                       
                                      On the other, I could not find it in samyuta Nikaya. Any help would be appreciated.
                                       
                                      Thanks,
                                      Rahula
                                       
                                      --- On Sun, 3/14/10, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:


                                      From: frank <fcckuan@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [Pali] gender
                                      To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 12:50 AM


                                       



                                      Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                      the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                      it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                      number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                      [A.1.15] after the explanation.

                                      -Frank






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Nina van Gorkom
                                      Dear Yong Peng, ... N: Of course I agree with your conclusion. However, the real cause of birth as a male or female is kamma. Nina. [Non-text portions of this
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                        Dear Yong Peng,
                                        Op 13-mrt-2010, om 20:09 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

                                        > So, this explanation in the Abhidhamma should not in anyway prevent
                                        > any effort for creating favourable conditions for gender equality
                                        > in our modern society. Neither should we use it as an excuse to
                                        > bring further suffering to women.
                                        -------
                                        N: Of course I agree with your conclusion. However, the real cause of
                                        birth as a male or female is kamma.
                                        Nina.



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • frank
                                        Hi Rahula, the samyutta reference is in the 37th samyutta, Maatugaamasa.myutta . In B.Bodhi s CDOB, p. 1286 at sutta central:
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                          Hi Rahula, the samyutta reference is in the 37th samyutta,
                                          "Maatugaamasa.myutta" .
                                          In B.Bodhi's CDOB, p. 1286

                                          at sutta central:
                                          http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?subdivision_id=39&subdivision_name=M%C4%81tug%C4%81ma%20Sa%E1%B9%83yutta&collection_name=Pali&division=SN&acronym=37&type=Subdivision

                                          it has the pali sutta, english sutta, and also page numbers for pts
                                          edition Nina was probably using.
                                          -frank

                                          On 3/13/2010 4:06 PM, Ngawang Dorje wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Hi,
                                          >
                                          > For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:
                                          >
                                          > Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The
                                          > Impossibilities)
                                          > 279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy,
                                          > rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man
                                          > could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
                                          >
                                          > On the other, I could not find it in samyuta Nikaya. Any help would be
                                          > appreciated.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks,
                                          > Rahula
                                          >
                                          > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, frank <fcckuan@...
                                          > <mailto:fcckuan%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: frank <fcckuan@... <mailto:fcckuan%40gmail.com>>
                                          > Subject: Re: [Pali] gender
                                          > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                                          > Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 12:50 AM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                          > the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                          > it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                          > number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                          > [A.1.15] after the explanation.
                                          >
                                          > -Frank
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Santi Romeyen
                                          Sorry to barge in. We can see that female of any species carry important functions for long term survival (of the species), while male provide short term
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                            Sorry to barge in.

                                            We can see that female of any species carry important functions for long term survival (of the species), while male provide short term survival functions. In short term survival female depend on male, but in the long term survival male depend on female.

                                            Thus female and male are not superior-inferior, not opposite, not stronger-weaker, ... but complementary like the two strains on the double helix of DNA strengthening the whole structure of DNA.

                                            sr12zar


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                                          • Ong Yong Peng
                                            Dear friends, I realise that we are on the wrong thread for a while. Please post under the other thread, for that matter. Thank you.
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 16, 2010
                                              Dear friends,

                                              I realise that we are on the wrong thread for a while. Please post under the other thread, for that matter. Thank you.

                                              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/14519

                                              metta,
                                              Yong Peng.


                                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, junet9876 wrote:

                                              Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word is masculine, feminine, or neuter?
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