Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

gender

Expand Messages
  • junet9876
    Hi, Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word is masculine, feminine, or neuter? Thank you, June
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 29, 2005
      Hi,

      Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word is
      masculine, feminine, or neuter?

      Thank you,
      June
    • Ven. Pandita
      Dear June There is no fixed rule to define the gender of a Pali noun. You should rely on a good dictionary, there is no alternative. with metta Ven. Pandita
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 29, 2005
        Dear June

        There is no fixed rule to define the gender of a Pali noun. You should
        rely on a good dictionary, there is no alternative.

        with metta

        Ven. Pandita



        > Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word is
        > masculine, feminine, or neuter?
        >
        > Thank you,
        > June
      • junet9876
        Dear Ven. Pandita, Oh I see. Which dictionary do you use? Because I use the PTS hard copy, but couldn t find any indications of genders at all. I could be
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 29, 2005
          Dear Ven. Pandita,

          Oh I see. Which dictionary do you use? Because I use the PTS hard
          copy, but couldn't find any indications of genders at all. I could be doing
          it wrong.

          Thank you,
          June

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ven. Pandita" <ashinpan@g...> wrote:
          > Dear June
          >
          > There is no fixed rule to define the gender of a Pali noun. You should
          > rely on a good dictionary, there is no alternative.
          >
          > with metta
          >
          > Ven. Pandita
          >
          >
          >
          > > Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word
          is
          > > masculine, feminine, or neuter?
          > >
          > > Thank you,
          > > June
        • Ven. Yuttadhammo
          Dear June, ... You should find the gender as (m.), (nt.), or (f), right after each noun in the PTS. They are there in the electronic edition anyway. Remember,
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 29, 2005
            Dear June,

            > Oh I see. Which dictionary do you use? Because I use the PTS hard
            > copy, but couldn't find any indications of genders at all. I could
            > be doing
            > it wrong.

            You should find the gender as (m.), (nt.), or (f), right after each
            noun in the PTS. They are there in the electronic edition anyway.
            Remember, adjectives don't have gender, neither do indeclinables,
            verbs, and prefixes.

            Best wishes,

            Yuttadhammo
          • Stephen Hodge
            Dear June, You could also try using Pali LookUp -- it s a freeware dictionary combined with a declension / conjugation utility and so other useful features. I
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 30, 2005
              Dear June,

              You could also try using Pali LookUp -- it's a freeware dictionary combined
              with a declension / conjugation utility and so other useful features. I
              don't have the URL to hand but it's very easy to find if you search.

              Best wishes,
              Stephen Hodge
            • junet9876
              Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, Thank you, it s very helpful to know only nouns have gender, I was just wondering that. Yes, the gender indications are there in the
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 31, 2005
                Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,

                Thank you, it's very helpful to know only nouns have gender, I was
                just wondering that. Yes, the gender indications are there in the hard
                copy as well, but I don't think it's there for all nouns. Because I
                looked up "purisa" but there's no "(m.)" mark. Or perhaps it's so
                obvious "purisa" is male they didn't feel they needed to mark it.

                Anyhow, oh well. Thanks for your help.

                Kind regards,
                June

                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ven. Yuttadhammo" <buffer@s...> wrote:
                > Dear June,
                >
                > > Oh I see. Which dictionary do you use? Because I use the PTS hard
                > > copy, but couldn't find any indications of genders at all. I could
                > > be doing
                > > it wrong.
                >
                > You should find the gender as (m.), (nt.), or (f), right after each
                > noun in the PTS. They are there in the electronic edition anyway.
                > Remember, adjectives don't have gender, neither do indeclinables,
                > verbs, and prefixes.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                >
                > Yuttadhammo
              • junet9876
                Dear Stephen, Thanks. Do you find this program useful? How do you use it? Because I think it s hard to look up words on there, I mean, I keep getting blank
                Message 7 of 28 , Mar 31, 2005
                  Dear Stephen,

                  Thanks. Do you find this program useful? How do you use it? Because I
                  think it's hard to look up words on there, I mean, I keep getting
                  blank lists for results, it's a bit irritating. I like their old
                  version better, because at least there are suggestions of what you
                  might be looking for. Also, I don't know what's wrong with my
                  computer, because before the Pali fonts used to work find, but now I'm
                  seeing weird characters. Pali is totally not on my side!

                  June

                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Hodge" <s.hodge@p...> wrote:
                  > Dear June,
                  >
                  > You could also try using Pali LookUp -- it's a freeware dictionary
                  combined
                  > with a declension / conjugation utility and so other useful
                  features. I
                  > don't have the URL to hand but it's very easy to find if you search.
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  > Stephen Hodge
                • Ven. Yuttadhammo
                  Dear June, I agree, it is strange that some entries in the PED don t have gender... it might be that all of those nouns without stated gender are masculine...
                  Message 8 of 28 , Mar 31, 2005
                    Dear June,

                    I agree, it is strange that some entries in the PED don't have
                    gender... it might be that all of those nouns without stated gender
                    are masculine...

                    > Thanks. Do you find this program useful? How do you use it? Because
                    > I
                    > think it's hard to look up words on there, I mean, I keep getting
                    > blank lists for results, it's a bit irritating. I like their old
                    > version better, because at least there are suggestions of what you
                    > might be looking for. Also, I don't know what's wrong with my
                    > computer, because before the Pali fonts used to work find, but now
                    > I'm
                    > seeing weird characters. Pali is totally not on my side!

                    First of all, if you can't find the word, just type in the first one
                    or two letters and then search - you'll find it easier that way.

                    Second, I had the same problem with the Pali characters in PaliLookup,
                    and I think this fixed the problem:

                    Start/Settings/Control Panel/Regional and Language Options/Advanced
                    (Tab)/Language for non-Unicode programs/ and set the language to
                    "English (US)" - if it is set at "Thai", you will not get the proper
                    characters.

                    What is good about PaliLookup, is that you get the declensions for
                    verbs and nouns. If you don't know what "pamuccatha" means for
                    instance. You can't look it up in any dictionary, but in PaliLookup,
                    you can search for "pamuc" and find it under "pamuccati" as the second
                    person plural form (present or imperative tense). If you use
                    PaliLookup along with the PED and the other Pali-English dictionary, I
                    think it is quite useful for translating and composing Pali.

                    Sabbadukkhaa pamuccatha,

                    Yuttadhammo
                  • junet9876
                    Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, ... PaliLookup, ... This fixed it for me, too. Thank you very much, I think I was stuck on this problem since last year, but never
                    Message 9 of 28 , Apr 1, 2005
                      Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,

                      >
                      > Second, I had the same problem with the Pali characters in
                      PaliLookup,
                      > and I think this fixed the problem:
                      >
                      > Start/Settings/Control Panel/Regional and Language Options/Advanced
                      > (Tab)/Language for non-Unicode programs/ and set the language to
                      > "English (US)" - if it is set at "Thai", you will not get the proper
                      > characters.

                      This fixed it for me, too. Thank you very much, I think I was stuck on
                      this problem since last year, but never bothered to put up a post or
                      asked anyone, so the problem's never been solved.

                      >
                      > What is good about PaliLookup, is that you get the declensions for
                      > verbs and nouns. If you don't know what "pamuccatha" means for
                      > instance. You can't look it up in any dictionary, but in PaliLookup,
                      > you can search for "pamuc" and find it under "pamuccati" as the
                      second
                      > person plural form (present or imperative tense). If you use
                      > PaliLookup along with the PED and the other Pali-English dictionary, I
                      > think it is quite useful for translating and composing Pali.

                      Great tip. Thank you :) I was just looking for something that would do
                      this. It lessens the headache.

                      >
                      > Sabbadukkhaa pamuccatha,

                      Thank you! May you be freed from suffering, too.

                      With respect,
                      June
                    • Ong Yong Peng
                      Dear Ven. Pandita, Ven. Yuttadhammo, June, Stephen and friends, June: if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide for the book here:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Apr 3, 2005
                        Dear Ven. Pandita, Ven. Yuttadhammo, June, Stephen and friends,

                        June: if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide
                        for the book here: http://www.tipitaka.net/paliprimerguide.pdf

                        The guide contains the complete list of words in the book, as well as a
                        summary of the grammar topics covered in the book. Each word has an
                        indication of class (part of speech), saving you the trouble from
                        flipping through the pages or looking up a dictionary. Of course, you
                        can still refer to a dictionary for additional information.

                        If you are working on An Elementary Pali Course, I am in the process of
                        preparing a similar guide for it. Its completion will be several months
                        away, since I am still working through the book myself. However, I
                        shall release the draft versions at different stages of the
                        compilation. The first draft should be made available next week.


                        metta,
                        Yong Peng.
                      • Ong Yong Peng
                        Dear friends, the first working draft of the language guide is now available at http://www.tipitaka.net/palicourseguide.pdf This draft covers up to Lesson 7
                        Message 11 of 28 , Apr 9, 2005
                          Dear friends,

                          the first working draft of the language guide is now available at
                          http://www.tipitaka.net/palicourseguide.pdf

                          This draft covers up to Lesson 7 inclusive. It is in PDF format, and
                          I hope it is useful to those who plan to start their personal Pali
                          study.

                          The second draft will be available around Vesak Day in May.

                          metta,
                          Yong Peng.


                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                          if you are working on the Pali Primer, there is a language guide for
                          the book here: http://www.tipitaka.net/paliprimerguide.pdf

                          If you are working on An Elementary Pali Course, I am in the process
                          of preparing a similar guide for it. Its completion will be several
                          months away, since I am still working through the book myself.
                          However, I shall release the draft versions at different stages of
                          the compilation. The first draft should be made available next week.
                        • Ven. Pandita
                          Dear Yong Peng You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when you
                          Message 12 of 28 , Apr 9, 2005
                            Dear Yong Peng

                            You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files in the
                            file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when you plan to do
                            it. I have some files to upload and I'm afraid they would take up too much
                            space.

                            with metta

                            Ven. Pandita


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ong Yong Peng
                            Dear Ven. Pandita and friends, Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space,
                            Message 13 of 28 , Apr 10, 2005
                              Dear Ven. Pandita and friends,

                              Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am
                              disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space, while
                              the Files section has 20MB. But, what I will still do is to transfer
                              up to 15MB of the files to Geocities. I will then set up an interface
                              page similar to what we have now. This should be ready by this week.

                              Information of the site's location will be given on the group's page,
                              its Files and Links sections, and as a small text note in the footer
                              of each message.

                              metta,
                              Yong Peng.

                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ven. Pandita wrote:

                              You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some files
                              in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good to know when
                              you plan to do it. I have some files to upload and I'm afraid they
                              would take up too much space.
                            • Ong Yong Peng
                              Dear Ven. Pandita and friends, so far, I have uploaded 5.1MB of files to Geocities. I will still be transferring another 9.9MB to fill up the entire 15MB of
                              Message 14 of 28 , Apr 15, 2005
                                Dear Ven. Pandita and friends,

                                so far, I have uploaded 5.1MB of files to Geocities. I will still be
                                transferring another 9.9MB to fill up the entire 15MB of space as
                                much as possible. Due to the limited uploading quota I have, I will
                                have to do this in several phases in this two days. Please check the
                                following page for updates.

                                http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/

                                metta,
                                Yong Peng.


                                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                                Bhante: sorry for the delay, but yes, things are under way. I am
                                disappointed to say that Geocities only provide 15MB of space, while
                                the Files section has 20MB. But, what I will still do is to transfer
                                up to 15MB of the files to Geocities. I will then set up an interface
                                page similar to what we have now. This should be ready by this week.

                                > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ven. Pandita wrote:
                                >
                                > You said in some previous post that you intend to remove some
                                > files in the file area to geocities. I think it would be good
                                > to know when you plan to do it. I have some files to upload
                                > and I'm afraid they would take up too much space.
                              • Nina van Gorkom
                                Dear Yong Peng and friends, In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                Message 15 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                                  Dear Yong Peng and friends,

                                  In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                                  (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                  <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                                  Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                                  latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                                  the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                                  about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                                  may be brought about by morality.>
                                  Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                                  kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness
                                  as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness
                                  as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                                  easily a position of honour in society.
                                  When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                                  his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                                  the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                                  birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                                  I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                                  should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                                  We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                                  and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                  Womankind, § 34:
                                  <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                                  increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                                  of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                                  learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>

                                  We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.

                                  We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                                  prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                                  the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                                  this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                                  eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

                                  Nina.
                                • Peter Tomlinson
                                  Hooray for Nina van Gorkom, she cuts through obscuration to the heart of the Dhamma once more! Pete Tomlinson ________________________________ From: Nina van
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                                    Hooray for Nina van Gorkom, she cuts through obscuration to the heart of the Dhamma once more!
                                    Pete Tomlinson





                                    ________________________________
                                    From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
                                    To: pali@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Thu, March 11, 2010 4:15:08 AM
                                    Subject: [Pali] gender


                                    Dear Yong Peng and friends,

                                    In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                                    (Atthasaalinii) , II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                    <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                                    Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                                    latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                                    the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                                    about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                                    may be brought about by morality.>
                                    Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                                    kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousne ss
                                    as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousne ss
                                    as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                                    easily a position of honour in society.
                                    When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                                    his rebirth-consciousne ss cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                                    the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                                    birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                                    I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                                    should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                                    We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                                    and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                    Womankind, § 34:
                                    <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                                    increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                                    of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                                    learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>

                                    We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.

                                    We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                                    prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                                    the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                                    this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                                    eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.

                                    Nina.


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • frank
                                    Hi Nina, I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta central:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                                      Hi Nina, I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                                      central:
                                      http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?subdivision_id=59&subdivision_name=Ekaka%20Nip%C4%81ta&collection_name=Pali&division=AN&acronym=1&type=Subdivision
                                      Is it using the numbering scheme on the left column or 2nd column in
                                      parenthesis?
                                      -Frank


                                      On 3/11/2010 2:15 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Dear Yong Peng and friends,
                                      >
                                      > In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                                      > (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                      > <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                                      > Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                                      > latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing,
                                      > the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                                      > about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                                      > may be brought about by morality.>
                                      > Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to
                                      > kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness
                                      > as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness
                                      > as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so
                                      > easily a position of honour in society.
                                      > When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha,
                                      > his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in
                                      > the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is
                                      > birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones,
                                      > I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman
                                      > should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                                      > We also read in the suttas that both man and woman can develop wisdom
                                      > and attain arahatship. For example: Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                      > Womankind, § 34:
                                      > <Increasing in five growths, monks, the ariyan woman disciple
                                      > increases in ariyan growth, takes hold of the essential, takes hold
                                      > of the better. What five? She grows in faith, grows in virtue, in
                                      > learning, in generosity, in wisdom...>
                                      >
                                      > We also read in the Theriigathaa that many women attained arahatship.
                                      >
                                      > We may debate about gender, about emancipation of women, about
                                      > prejudices, rank, honour, but all this is insignificant compared to
                                      > the development of right understanding of the dhamma appearing at
                                      > this moment. This is what really matters in life, this leads
                                      > eventually to liberation from the cycle of birth and death.
                                      >
                                      > Nina.
                                      >
                                      >



                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Jim Anderson
                                      Dear Nina, You wrote:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                                        Dear Nina,

                                        You wrote:
                                        << In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor
                                        (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                        <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior.
                                        Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the
                                        latter may be brought about by *weak immorality*. But in disappearing,
                                        the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought
                                        about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and
                                        may be brought about by morality.> >>

                                        The part "weak immorality" which I've marked off above with two asterisks
                                        should be "weak morality" according to the reading of the CSCD text:
                                        itthili"nga.m dubbalakusalena pati.t.thaati (As 322) --- the feminine sex is
                                        (re-)established through weak moral action or conduct. I would prefer
                                        "strong immoral conduct" for "grossly immoral conduct" (balava-akusalena) in
                                        contrast to "weak immoral conduct" (dubbala-akusalena).

                                        Best wishes,
                                        Jim
                                      • Nina van Gorkom
                                        Dear Jim, Thank you very much for the correction. Indeed, this was in the PTS text. Nina. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Mar 11, 2010
                                          Dear Jim,
                                          Thank you very much for the correction. Indeed, this was in the PTS
                                          text.
                                          Nina.
                                          Op 11-mrt-2010, om 17:06 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:

                                          > The part "weak immorality" which I've marked off above with two
                                          > asterisks
                                          > should be "weak morality" according to the reading of the CSCD text:
                                          > itthili"nga.m dubbalakusalena pati.t.thaati (As 322) --- the
                                          > feminine sex is
                                          > (re-)established through weak moral action or conduct. I would prefer
                                          > "strong immoral conduct" for "grossly immoral conduct" (balava-
                                          > akusalena) in
                                          > contrast to "weak immoral conduct" (dubbala-akusalena).



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Nina van Gorkom
                                          Dear Frank, I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on ... Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34. Does this help? I do not
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
                                            Dear Frank,
                                            I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                            > Womankind, § 34.
                                            Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34.
                                            Does this help? I do not understand the method of sutta central, my
                                            skill is very limited.
                                            It is the last sutta of Sayings about womankind, Maatugaamasa.myutta.
                                            Nina.

                                            Op 11-mrt-2010, om 16:17 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

                                            > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                                            > central:
                                            > http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Ong Yong Peng
                                            Dear Nina and Frank, Nina s earlier A I,27 should refer to volume I page 27 of the PTS English print edition. It is a volume/page referencing system. Nowadays,
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Mar 12, 2010
                                              Dear Nina and Frank,

                                              Nina's earlier A I,27 should refer to volume I page 27 of the PTS English print edition. It is a volume/page referencing system.

                                              Nowadays, most students would use the more "user-friendly" universal subdivision/sutta referencing system. There are differences in how such a system is implemented, but the differences can be numerically resolved easily.

                                              AN1.15.12 - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/9613

                                              From AN1.15.12 to AN1.15.16, there are a total of 5 statements which describe what a woman may not become but a man may. These are 5 highest acclaimed positions/functions/roles in the Buddhist "universe". Such statements are based on the premise that there is a domineering gender in the society, and karma determines which gender one is born into.

                                              metta,
                                              Yong Peng.


                                              --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                                              I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on Womankind, � 34.

                                              Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, � 34.

                                              > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta central
                                            • frank
                                              Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect, it lists the
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                                Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                                the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                                it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                                number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                                [A.1.15] after the explanation.

                                                -Frank

                                                On 3/12/2010 6:57 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Dear Frank,
                                                > I quoted from the S.N., not A.N. Samyutta Nikaaya IV, Sayings on
                                                > > Womankind, § 34.
                                                > Annotation: IV, 249, or XXXVII , III, 3, § 34.
                                                > Does this help? I do not understand the method of sutta central, my
                                                > skill is very limited.
                                                > It is the last sutta of Sayings about womankind, Maatugaamasa.myutta.
                                                > Nina.
                                                >
                                                > Op 11-mrt-2010, om 16:17 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:
                                                >
                                                > > I could not find the [A 1.27] reference you specified at sutta
                                                > > central:
                                                > > http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?
                                                > <http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?>
                                                >
                                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                >
                                                >



                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Ong Yong Peng
                                                Dear Nina, thank you. This explanation in the Abhidhamma first establishes the male gender to be superior. Through observation in nature, we can see advantages
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                                  Dear Nina,

                                                  thank you. This explanation in the Abhidhamma first establishes the male gender to be superior. Through observation in nature, we can see advantages of the male sex anatomically and culturally. For example, it is obvious to see how strongly dependent on man (father, husband and son) a woman is in certain cultures. And then it explains that kamma (karma) determines if a person is born into the "superior" or "inferior" sex.

                                                  Without first acknowledging one gender to be better than the other, the theory of kamma won't work. This is how I see it, in the Buddhist context to explain things using cause and effect, but not to explain "away" things so that we can turn a blind eye on suffering.

                                                  So, this explanation in the Abhidhamma should not in anyway prevent any effort for creating favourable conditions for gender equality in our modern society. Neither should we use it as an excuse to bring further suffering to women.

                                                  metta,
                                                  Yong Peng.


                                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

                                                  In the Co. to the first book of the Abhidhamma, the Expositor (Atthasaalinii), II, Ch 3, Derived Material Qualities, 322, we read:
                                                  <Of the two, the masculine sex is superior, the feminine is inferior. Therefore the former disappears through grossly immoral conduct; the latter may be brought about by weak immorality. But in disappearing, the latter does so by weak immorality, the former may be brought about by strong morality. Thus both disappear through immorality and may be brought about by morality.>
                                                  Kamma produces the ruupas that are sex, bhava ruupa. It is due to kamma whether one is born a male or a female. Rebirth-consciousness as a woman is vipaakacitta that is weaker than rebirth-consciousness as a man. This is clear. It is a fact that a woman does not obtain so easily a position of honour in society.
                                                  When a bodhisatta is born in his last life where he will be a Buddha, his rebirth-consciousness cannot be a weaker vipaakacitta. We read in the Cariyapi.taka that one of the requirements for Buddhahood is birth as a male. We read in the Anguttara Nikaaya, Book of the Ones, I, 27: <It is impossible, monks, it cannot come to pass, that a woman should be an arahat who is a Fully Enlightened One.>
                                                • Ngawang Dorje
                                                  Hi,   For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:   Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The Impossibilities) 279.
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Mar 13, 2010
                                                    Hi,
                                                     
                                                    For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:
                                                     
                                                    Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The Impossibilities)
                                                    279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
                                                     
                                                    On the other, I could not find it in samyuta Nikaya. Any help would be appreciated.
                                                     
                                                    Thanks,
                                                    Rahula
                                                     
                                                    --- On Sun, 3/14/10, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:


                                                    From: frank <fcckuan@...>
                                                    Subject: Re: [Pali] gender
                                                    To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
                                                    Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 12:50 AM


                                                     



                                                    Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                                    the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                                    it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                                    number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                                    [A.1.15] after the explanation.

                                                    -Frank






                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • Nina van Gorkom
                                                    Dear Yong Peng, ... N: Of course I agree with your conclusion. However, the real cause of birth as a male or female is kamma. Nina. [Non-text portions of this
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                                      Dear Yong Peng,
                                                      Op 13-mrt-2010, om 20:09 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

                                                      > So, this explanation in the Abhidhamma should not in anyway prevent
                                                      > any effort for creating favourable conditions for gender equality
                                                      > in our modern society. Neither should we use it as an excuse to
                                                      > bring further suffering to women.
                                                      -------
                                                      N: Of course I agree with your conclusion. However, the real cause of
                                                      birth as a male or female is kamma.
                                                      Nina.



                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • frank
                                                      Hi Rahula, the samyutta reference is in the 37th samyutta, Maatugaamasa.myutta . In B.Bodhi s CDOB, p. 1286 at sutta central:
                                                      Message 26 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                                        Hi Rahula, the samyutta reference is in the 37th samyutta,
                                                        "Maatugaamasa.myutta" .
                                                        In B.Bodhi's CDOB, p. 1286

                                                        at sutta central:
                                                        http://www.suttacentral.net/disp_sutta.php?subdivision_id=39&subdivision_name=M%C4%81tug%C4%81ma%20Sa%E1%B9%83yutta&collection_name=Pali&division=SN&acronym=37&type=Subdivision

                                                        it has the pali sutta, english sutta, and also page numbers for pts
                                                        edition Nina was probably using.
                                                        -frank

                                                        On 3/13/2010 4:06 PM, Ngawang Dorje wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > Hi,
                                                        >
                                                        > For those who are unable to find the reference, here you are:
                                                        >
                                                        > Anguttara Nikaya, 1. Ekakanipaata, XV At.t.haanapaali (The
                                                        > Impossibilities)
                                                        > 279. Bhikkhus, it is impossible that a woman could be the worthy,
                                                        > rightfully enlightened all knowing one. It is possible that a man
                                                        > could be the worthy, rightfully enlightened all knowing one.
                                                        >
                                                        > On the other, I could not find it in samyuta Nikaya. Any help would be
                                                        > appreciated.
                                                        >
                                                        > Thanks,
                                                        > Rahula
                                                        >
                                                        > --- On Sun, 3/14/10, frank <fcckuan@...
                                                        > <mailto:fcckuan%40gmail.com>> wrote:
                                                        >
                                                        > From: frank <fcckuan@... <mailto:fcckuan%40gmail.com>>
                                                        > Subject: Re: [Pali] gender
                                                        > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                        > Date: Sunday, March 14, 2010, 12:50 AM
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        >
                                                        > Thank you Nina and Yong Peng for the citations and the explanation of
                                                        > the numbering system. Suttacentral is immensely helpful in this respect,
                                                        > it lists the simple numbering system right along with the volume/page
                                                        > number numbering system, so I was able to look up both [S.37] and
                                                        > [A.1.15] after the explanation.
                                                        >
                                                        > -Frank
                                                        >
                                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                        >
                                                        >



                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Santi Romeyen
                                                        Sorry to barge in. We can see that female of any species carry important functions for long term survival (of the species), while male provide short term
                                                        Message 27 of 28 , Mar 14, 2010
                                                          Sorry to barge in.

                                                          We can see that female of any species carry important functions for long term survival (of the species), while male provide short term survival functions. In short term survival female depend on male, but in the long term survival male depend on female.

                                                          Thus female and male are not superior-inferior, not opposite, not stronger-weaker, ... but complementary like the two strains on the double helix of DNA strengthening the whole structure of DNA.

                                                          sr12zar


                                                          อยากได้เบอร์เมลสุดโปรด!
                                                          จองได้เลยที่ @... และ @...
                                                          http://mail.promotions.yahoo.com/newdomains/th/
                                                        • Ong Yong Peng
                                                          Dear friends, I realise that we are on the wrong thread for a while. Please post under the other thread, for that matter. Thank you.
                                                          Message 28 of 28 , Mar 16, 2010
                                                            Dear friends,

                                                            I realise that we are on the wrong thread for a while. Please post under the other thread, for that matter. Thank you.

                                                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/14519

                                                            metta,
                                                            Yong Peng.


                                                            --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, junet9876 wrote:

                                                            Does anyone know where we can look up whether a certain word is masculine, feminine, or neuter?
                                                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.