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Re[2]: wings to awakening

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  • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
    Hi John, And again, there will be in the course of the future monks undeveloped in bodily conduct... virtue... mind... discernment. They -- being undeveloped
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 15, 2002
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      Hi John,

      "And again, there will be in the course of the future monks undeveloped
      in bodily conduct... virtue... mind... discernment. They -- being
      undeveloped in bodily conduct... virtue... mind... discernment -- will
      not listen when discourses that are words of the Tathagata -- deep,
      profound, transcendent, connected with the Void -- are being recited.
      They will not lend ear, will not set their hearts on knowing them,
      will not regard these teachings as worth grasping or mastering. But
      they will listen when discourses that are literary works -- the works
      of poets, elegant in sound, elegant in rhetoric, the work of
      outsiders, words of disciples -- are recited. They will lend ear and
      set their hearts on knowing them. They will regard these teachings as
      worth grasping and mastering. Thus from corrupt Dhamma comes corrupt
      discipline; from corrupt discipline, corrupt Dhamma.

      "This, monks, is the fourth future danger, unarisen at present, that
      will arise in the future. Be alert to it and, being alert, work to get
      rid of it."

      http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/anguttara/an05-077.html

      Mettaa,
      Dimitry
    • Flavio Costa
      Hello all, The dictionary I use is one based on Buddhadatta s concise dict., and it gives the following translations: pakkhiya: belonging to a faction; siding
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 15, 2002
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        Hello all,

        The dictionary I use is one based on Buddhadatta's concise dict., and it
        gives the following translations:

        pakkhiya: belonging to a faction; siding with; fortnightly.

        pakkhii: a bird; the winged one.

        pakkha: a cripple; a lamp person; side; party; faction; side of the body; a
        flank, a wing; a fortnight. (adj.) adherent; associated with.

        Curiously, the Anagata-bhayani Suttas sent by Dimitry where translated
        by the same Thanissaro Bhikkhu who translated bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma as Wings
        to Awakening. Again in the AN IX.1 available at ATI 'sambodhipakkhikaana.m
        dhammaana.m' appears as "the wings to self-awakening".

        The messages posted about this subject made me think that both
        renderings are acceptable depending on the context where they're used. It
        sounds well in Thanissaro's book title and there is no problem with such
        usage since this choice did not obscure the meaning of the expression in the
        book. On the sutta refered to above, however, I think that the choice was
        not so appropriate.

        It seems that when the Buddha used this expression he didn't mean
        anything related to "wings", but it's even possible that he constructed the
        phrase this way to give it a sort of "double meaning", likewise the ariyan
        custom of worshipping the six quarters as father, mother, etc.

        Best regards,

        Flavio Costa
      • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
        Hello: JD If I m not mistaken, I believe the word bodhipakkhiydhammaa is JD commentarial. Buddhaghosa explains the meaning of the term in the JD
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 15, 2002
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          Hello:

          JD> If I'm not mistaken, I believe the word 'bodhipakkhiydhammaa' is
          JD> commentarial. Buddhaghosa explains the meaning of the term in the
          JD> Visuddhimagga as states or things 'partaking' of enlightenment,
          JD> but I don't think it appears in the Pali Canon.

          Well, 'bodhipakkhiyaa dhammaa' occurs many times in Samyutta Nikaya
          (5.231, etc.), with clear explanation 'bodhaaya sa.mvattati' 'leading
          to Enlightenment'.

          It also occurs several times in Anguttara Nikaya (3.70, 3.300, etc.)

          And why 'states'? Is, for example, 'faith' a state? It is clearly a
          'mental quality'.

          Metta,
          Dimitry
        • Oliver Cooper
          Dear Flavio, you are right that Wings to Awakening is a poetic translation. i was not aware that it is the common translation for bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma. If
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 18, 2002
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            Dear Flavio,
            you are right that "Wings to Awakening" is a poetic translation. i was not
            aware that it is the "common" translation for bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma. If you
            want as complete an introduction to the 37 factors as you can get i suggest
            that you buy a copy of "The Buddhist Path to Awakening" by R M L Gethin,
            published last year by Oneworld books. It is available through Amazon in
            paperback. It was Dr Gethin's PhD thesis at Manchester University in England
            and is comprehensive account of the textual references to the 37 factors,
            covered by each factor and by group of factors. It is a wonderfully written
            book and it has been very helpful to me in coming to appreciate the
            interwoven complexity of the Buddha's teaching.

            Cheers
            O
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