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Re: [Pali] kilesa vs. upakkilesa

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  • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
    JK Does anyone know the difference in meanings between JK kilesa and uppakkilesa? The dictionary definitions JK suggest defilement or impurity for both.
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 1, 2002
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      JK> Does anyone know the difference in meanings between
      JK> kilesa and uppakkilesa? The dictionary definitions
      JK> suggest defilement or impurity for both. What
      JK> subtlety of difference does the upa- prefix bring, if
      JK> any?

      On the second glance, I think that besides the tinge of 'on, upon',
      there's also a shade of 'coming close from down under'. That is,
      'upakkilesaa' are considered to be somewhat lower, or secondary,
      adjoining, to those things on which they appear.

      Simplification 'kilesaa' loses that shade.

      Metta,
      Dimitry
    • pakdi yanawaro
      kilesa is the main classification, it is clasified as lobha,dosa and moha as you already know, , but upakilesa is a subdivision into more details, 16 items,
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 2, 2002
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        kilesa is the main classification, it is clasified as
        lobha,dosa and moha as you already know, , but
        upakilesa is a subdivision into more details, 16
        items, i.e.
        1.Abhijjaavismalobha : greed and covetousness;
        covetousness and unrighteous greed
        2.Byaapaada:malevolence; illwill
        3.Kodha: anger
        4. Upanaaha; grudge;spite
        5. Makkha: detraction;depreciation; enigration
        6.Palaasa; domineering; rivalry ; envious rivalry
        7. Issaa: envy; jealousy
        8. Macchariya : stinginess; meanness
        9.Maayaa : deceit
        10. Saatheyya : hypocrisy
        11. Thambha : obstinacy; rigidity
        12. Saarambha : presumption; competing contention;
        contentiousness; contentious rivalry; vying; strife
        13. Maana: conceit
        14.Atimaana : excessive conceit
        15. Mada : vanity
        16. Pamaada : heedlessness ; negligence; indolence
        Ref. M.1.36

        By the way there is also another classification or
        subdivision, called Mala : stains 9 items i.e.
        1.Kodha : anger
        2. Makkha : detraction; depreciation
        3.Issaa : envy; jealousy
        4. Macchariya : stinginess; meanness
        5. Maayaa : deceit
        6. Saatheyya : hypocrisy
        7. Musaavaada : false speech
        8. Paapicchaa :evil desire
        9. Micchaaditthi : false view
        Ref. Vbh.389

        Another classification :
        Kilesa : defilements , 10 items i.e.
        1. Lobha : greed
        2. Dosa : hatred
        3. Moha : delusion
        4. Maana : conceit
        5. Ditthi : wrong view
        6. Vicikicchaa : doubt; uncertainty
        7. Thina : sloth
        8.Uddhacca : restlessness
        9. Ahirika : shamelessness
        10. Anottappa : lack of moral dread
        Ref : Vbh 391

        Metta ,
        Prapakdi, Bangkok, Thailand



        --- "������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)"
        <sangha@...> wrote:
        > JK> Does anyone know the difference in meanings
        > between
        > JK> kilesa and uppakkilesa? The dictionary
        > definitions
        > JK> suggest defilement or impurity for both. What
        > JK> subtlety of difference does the upa- prefix
        > bring, if
        > JK> any?
        >
        > On the second glance, I think that besides the tinge
        > of 'on, upon',
        > there's also a shade of 'coming close from down
        > under'. That is,
        > 'upakkilesaa' are considered to be somewhat lower,
        > or secondary,
        > adjoining, to those things on which they appear.
        >
        > Simplification 'kilesaa' loses that shade.
        >
        > Metta,
        > Dimitry
        >
        >
        >
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      • ������� ��������� (Dimitry Ivakhnenko)
        Pra Pakdi, Thank you for reply - I felt as if I am talking to myself. py kilesa is the main classification, it is clasified as py lobha,dosa and moha as you
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 2, 2002
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          Pra Pakdi,

          Thank you for reply - I felt as if I am talking to myself.

          py> kilesa is the main classification, it is clasified as
          py> lobha,dosa and moha as you already know,

          Please tell the appropriate reference.
          Let's distinguish from the very start, how and if this word is used in
          Suttanta Pitaka and in the Commentaries.
          I have not found a single occurence of the word 'kilesa' in Digha,
          Anguttara and Samyutta Nikayas, and only two occurences in Majjhima
          Nikaya, at 3.275.

          py> , but
          py> upakilesa is a subdivision into more details, 16
          py> items, i.e.

          Thank you for the reference to excellent Vatthupama Sutta
          http://www.accesstoinsight.org/canon/majjhima/mn7.html

          There are similar lists of seventeen items in each last discourse of
          Books 3 to 11 of the Anguttara Nikaya, which carry the title
          Ragapeyyala, the Repetitive Text on Greed (etc.), with 'dosa' and
          'moha' included. So this is not a subdivision.

          There are also lists of four upakkilesaa at A.2.54, and five at
          A.3.16.

          Probably the distinction between 'upakkilesa' and 'kilesa' can be a
          criterion of the age of the text. In the earliest texts the word
          'kilesa' is not used.

          py> Another classification :
          py> Kilesa : defilements , 10 items i.e.

          In my opinion this list repeats the lists of 'upakkilesaa'.

          Metta,
          Dimitry, Kiev, Ukraine
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