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Re: [Pali] More replies to Nina as regards RG

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  • Nina van Gorkom
    Venerable Bhante Pandita, thank you very much for the explanations. It will take me time to absorb direct and indirect subject and object. I will need many
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 3, 2005
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      Venerable Bhante Pandita,
      thank you very much for the explanations. It will take me time to absorb
      direct and indirect subject and object. I will need many examples.
      op 01-03-2005 18:40 schreef Ven. Pandita op ashinpan@...:

      > Bhaasiiyate is a verb derived from bhaas (the root) + ya (passive sign)
      > + te (3rd pers. singular Present Tense ending)
      N: Looking at Warder, p. 51, I am confused: pahiiyati, the ending is in ti
      not in te. .
      With respect,
      Nina.
    • Ong Yong Peng
      Dear Ven. Pandita, Nina and friends, this is interesting. Please correct me where I am wrong. We are dealing heavily with linguistics here, hence unfamiliar
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 4, 2005
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        Dear Ven. Pandita, Nina and friends,

        this is interesting. Please correct me where I am wrong. We are
        dealing heavily with linguistics here, hence unfamiliar terms like
        absolute voice and inactive object/subject.

        In English there are just two voices: passive and active.

        [Subject: student]
        The student writes a report. (Active)
        A report is written by the student. (Passive)

        In the first sentence, 'student' the subject is active. In the second
        sentence, 'student' the subject is passive, 'report' the object is
        active.

        The potential participle is also known as gerundive. It denotes
        something should be done or is fit to be done[1]. Hence, the subject
        is inactive, and is always in the Instrumental case.

        For example:

        Future: I shall go. Aha.m gamissaama. - active
        Potential participle: I should go. Mayaa gantabba.m. - inactive

        When saying "I should go" in potential participle, it does not
        mean "I shall go later", but "I have to go or it will be too late".
        This is absolute voice, the emphasis is on the verb, not the subject,
        and there is no object.

        However, this distinction is not clear in English, hence the
        confusion.

        metta,
        Yong Peng.

        [1] http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/latin/grammar/gerundive.htm

        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ven. Pandita wrote:

        >I still have trouble with inactive object, why inactive.

        Check the verb gantabba.m first. Why is this verb of neutral gender
        and singular number? There are two possible answers.

        1. This sentence is in Passive voice, and there must be agreement
        between the verb and the active object. The active object (not
        expressed in this example) is of neutral gender and singular number
        so the verb also follows suit.
        2. Or this sentence is in Absolute voice, so the verb is in neutral
        gender and singular (RG 2) Then both the subject and object would be
        inactive.

        Now think of nagara.m, the hypothetical object. It is of neutral
        gender, singular number but of two possible cases, namely, nominative
        and accusative. Of them, nominative would be for Passive voice while
        accusative for Absolute.
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