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AN 6.10.11

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  • Ven. Yuttadhammo
    Here s AN 6.10.11 Comments: 1) ta.nhaa = thirst 2) Again the problem with the word: maana (cp AN 6.8.2 Arahattasutta m) which is commonly translated as
    Message 1 of 2 , Mar 2, 2005
      Here's AN 6.10.11

      Comments:

      1) ta.nhaa = thirst

      2) Again the problem with the word: "maana" (cp AN 6.8.2 Arahattasutta'm) which is
      commonly translated as "conceit". But here it is probably more simply "self-estimation",
      "conceit" being closer to atimaana, here rendered as "over-estimation". I have here given
      "maana" three seperate translations: "self-estimation" to clarify what kind of estimation
      is referred to, "estimation" when simply referring to the attachment to self (e.g. I am
      like this, I am like that), and "conceit" when placed in the poetic "sammaa
      maanaabhisamayaa". This avoids describing "maana" as a kind of "maana", as well as
      repeating oneself, saying that abandoning "maana" is a way to penetrate "maana".

      --------------------------------------------

      A'nguttaranikaayo

      Chakkanipaatapaa.li

      10. Aanisa'msavaggo

      11. Ta.nhaasutta.m

      Tisso imaa, bhikkhave, ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa, tayo ca maanaa.
      /three /these /o Bhikkhus /thirsts /should be abandoned /three /and /self-estimations /
      These three, o Bhikkhus, thirsts should be abandoned, and these three self-estimations.

      Katamaa tisso ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa? Kaamata.nhaa, bhavata.nhaa, vibhavata.nhaa- imaa tisso
      ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa.
      /Which /three /thirsts /should be abandoned /thirst for sensuality /thirst for becoming
      /thirst for non-becoming /these /three /thirsts /should be abandoned /
      Which three thirsts should be abandoned? Thirst for sensuality, thirst for becoming,
      thirst for non-becoming. These three thirsts should be abandoned.

      Katame tayo maanaa pahaatabbaa? Maano, omaano, atimaano- ime tayo maanaa pahaatabbaa.
      /which /three /self-estimations /should be abandoned /estimation /under-estimation
      /over-estimation /these /three /self-estimations /should be abandoned /
      Which three self-estimations should be abandoned? Estimation, under-estimation,
      over-estimation. These three self-estimations should be abandoned.

      Yato kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno imaa tisso ta.nhaa pahiinaa honti, ime ca tayo maanaa;
      aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave, bhikkhu acchecchi ta.nha.m,vivattayi sa.myojana.m, sammaa
      maanaabhisamayaa antamakaasi dukkhassaa"ti.
      /From whence /indeed /o bhikkhus /by a bhikkhu /these /three /thirsts /abandoned /are
      /these /and /three /self-estimations /this /one says /o bhikkhus /monk /has cut off
      /thirst /has broken /the bond /right /from the penetration of conceit /has made an end /to
      suffering /
      Indeed, oh bhikkhus, from whence these three thirsts are abandoned by a bhikkhu, along
      with these three self-estimations - o monks, one says this monk has cut off thirst; has
      broken the bond ; from the right penetration of conceit has made an end to suffering.
    • Nina van Gorkom
      Venerable Bhante Yuttadhammo, thank you very much. ... N: It is often translated as craving, but I also have seen thirst. Bh: 2) Again the problem with the
      Message 2 of 2 , Mar 3, 2005
        Venerable Bhante Yuttadhammo,
        thank you very much.
        op 03-03-2005 02:19 schreef Ven. Yuttadhammo op buffer@...:

        >
        > Here's AN 6.10.11
        >
        > Comments:
        >
        > 1) ta.nhaa = thirst
        N: It is often translated as craving, but I also have seen thirst.
        Bh: 2) Again the problem with the word: "maana" (cp AN 6.8.2
        Arahattasutta'm)
        > which is
        > commonly translated as "conceit". But here it is probably more simply
        > "self-estimation",
        > "conceit" being closer to atimaana, here rendered as "over-estimation".
        N: Also self estimation is a kind of conceit, one clings to the importance
        of self.
        There are many variations of it. The Vibhanga explains under 'Small Items':
        ati-maana excessive conceit. Adhimaana: overestimating conceit (not having
        attained, one imagines oneself as having attained).
        asmi-maana: conceit of I am.
        omaana: self disrespect.
        In all such ways one is flying a banner.
        Also in the footnotes of the Arahattasutta, as you referred to.
        Personally I prefer conceit to self-estimation, but the word self-estimation
        is all right too. But the sutta refers to the arahat, and he has eradicated
        all kinds of conceit. Wrong view was already eradicated by the sotaapanna.
        Bh: I
        > have here given
        > "maana" three seperate translations: "self-estimation" to clarify what kind of
        > estimation
        > is referred to,

        "estimation" when simply referring to the attachment to self
        > (e.g. I am
        > like this, I am like that),
        N: Thus here the word estimation refers to conceit, not just clinging to
        self without conceit.
        I am like this: this can be with conceit. It takes any object. Also when
        one does not compare. Somehow one flies a banner, one finds oneself
        important.

        Bh: and "conceit" when placed in the poetic "sammaa
        > maanaabhisamayaa". This avoids describing "maana" as a kind of "maana", as
        > well as
        > repeating oneself, saying that abandoning "maana" is a way to penetrate
        > "maana".
        N: Translation is fine, I think. The sammaa belongs to the abhisamayaa, not
        to conceit.
        With respect,
        Nina.
        > --------------------------------------------
        >
        > A'nguttaranikaayo
        >
        > Chakkanipaatapaa.li
        >
        > 10. Aanisa'msavaggo
        >
        > 11. Ta.nhaasutta.m
        >
        > Tisso imaa, bhikkhave, ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa, tayo ca maanaa.
        > These three, o Bhikkhus, thirsts should be abandoned, and these three
        > self-estimations.
        >
        > Katamaa tisso ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa? Kaamata.nhaa, bhavata.nhaa, vibhavata.nhaa-
        > imaa tisso
        > ta.nhaa pahaatabbaa.
        > Which three thirsts should be abandoned? Thirst for sensuality, thirst for
        > becoming,
        > thirst for non-becoming. These three thirsts should be abandoned.
        >
        > Katame tayo maanaa pahaatabbaa? Maano, omaano, atimaano- ime tayo maanaa
        > pahaatabbaa.
        > Which three self-estimations should be abandoned? Estimation,
        > under-estimation,
        > over-estimation. These three self-estimations should be abandoned.
        >
        > Yato kho, bhikkhave, bhikkhuno imaa tisso ta.nhaa pahiinaa honti, ime ca tayo
        > maanaa;
        > aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave, bhikkhu acchecchi ta.nha.m,vivattayi sa.myojana.m,
        > sammaa
        > maanaabhisamayaa antamakaasi dukkhassaa"ti.
        > Indeed, oh bhikkhus, from whence these three thirsts are abandoned by a
        > bhikkhu, along
        > with these three self-estimations - o monks, one says this monk has cut off
        > thirst; has
        > broken the bond ; from the right penetration of conceit has made an end to
        > suffering.
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