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Re: [Pali] Re: Tipitaka Network: Season Greetings

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  • Piya Tan
    Bhante & friends, The Fan Dong Jing thesis is now found at
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 27, 2004
      Bhante & friends,

      The Fan Dong Jing thesis is now found at


      Namakkara & Happy New Year


      Bhante Sujato wrote:

      > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "olbeggaols" <MikeOlds@p...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Bhante Sujato,
      > >
      > > You mention a digitized version of an English translation of the
      > > Chinese Canon. Do you have a link?
      > Hello Mike,
      > Sorry, that para in my message was not so clear. I was just giving
      > an example in the case of DN 1 Brahmajala, and mentioned that there
      > is a translation of the Chinese available on the web. This is in
      > fact an excellent job; the sutta is near identical with the Pali,
      > with a couple of interesting differences. The translator also gives
      > a long essay and notes. I don't have a link, but the title is: A
      > OF BRAHMAJALA SUTRA, by Cheng Jianhua. Last time i googled it had
      > disappeared; if you (or anyone else) want but can't find, let me
      > know and i'll send you a copy.
      > There is no complete translation of the Chinese canon. Large parts
      > have been translated, but little work has been done on the early
      > Agamas and Vinayas, thus perpetrating the entirely inaccurate
      > perception that the Chinese canon is 'Mahayana'. Of course, it
      > includes many Mahayana works, but much, perhaps even most of the
      > Indian works derive from the early Sravakayana schools.
      > The Numata foundation has a long-term project to translate the
      > entire Chinese canon. Some works have appeared, which are of good
      > quality. Work is underway on several important early works: the
      > Dirgha Agama (Dharmaguptaka); Madhyama Agama (sarvastivada);
      > Mahasanghika Vinaya; Dharmaguptaka Vinaya (this last is very similar
      > to the Pali, and is the Vinaya followed by Chinese bhikkhus and
      > bhikkhunis; the Tibetans follow Mulasarvastivada). These
      > translations are eagerly awaited, but will not appear anytime soon.
      > I recently contacted the Numata Foundation and they were not able to
      > give even an estimated publication date.
      > Incidentally, does anyone know if any serious work is being done on
      > translations from Tibetan? I was recently talking with a Tibetan
      > Lama who lamented that to date mainly the Tibetan works have been
      > translated and taught in the West, ignoring the Indian roots. Of
      > course they have very little early material. Peter Skilling (thru
      > PTS) has done an amazing job on the Maha Sutras, a group of about
      > ten suttas in Tibetan, most of which have pali cognates.
      > How amazing it will be when the scriptures of all the traditions are
      > translated into one language, so that anyone can pick them up, read
      > them, and see for themselves where all these great spiritual
      > traditions spring from.
      > in Dhamma
      > Bhante Sujato
      > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
      > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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      > �
    • Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko (������ �����i�����
      Hi Michael, o You mention a digitized version of an English translation of the o Chinese Canon. Do you have a link? There are some translations at:
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 28, 2004
        Hi Michael,

        o> You mention a digitized version of an English translation of the
        o> Chinese Canon. Do you have a link?

        There are some translations at:

        Good luck,
      • Ong Yong Peng
        Dear Ven. Sujato, Piya and friends, Bhante: thank you for your message. You have provided many excellent ideas, a few of which I have been experimenting on
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 28, 2004
          Dear Ven. Sujato, Piya and friends,


          thank you for your message. You have provided many excellent ideas, a
          few of which I have been experimenting on Tipitaka.net for a while.
          Over the past few months, several members have also written about
          possible IT projects of all sorts. I have been reading with interest,
          but can't really contribute in the discussion as I was busy with my
          studies. Studies is over now, and I am currently seeking permanent
          employment in Australia. In the meanwhile, I have looking back at the
          messages in the archive at the awesome ideas that have been presented.

          The ideas you have suggested summed up into a collaborative web
          project, and it is technically viable. However, it will require a bit
          of planning, as well as design and development, to accomplish what
          you would like to do. Nevertheless, such a community-based and
          content-driven system is available. In fact, there are several of
          these content management systems (CMS's) available, and many are
          free! Again, they may not be exactly what is needed, and will require
          not only tailoring, but possibly a high-level of design and
          development too. Also available are web database systems, and portal
          systems, forum systems and wiki systems based on those web databases,
          the most popular being mySQL, a web-based RDBMS. On top of that.
          there are also many options to deliver contents to web-users.

          The system you have suggested will have a certain impact on the way
          people learn Buddhism in the future. There will be several hurdles to
          clear. One is the issue of presenting Pali characters, and possibly
          Sanskrit, CJK, Southeast Asian scripts, and Tibetan characters. The
          rest will be the design of the site, which will basically be mainly
          programming issues at the start. Even so, I believe such a project is
          worth undertaking.

          Yong Peng.

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bhante Sujato wrote:

          The idea is to provide a one-stop-shop for those interested to pursue
          study of early Buddhism along comparative and historical lines.

          'Early Buddhism' means, generally speaking, the first 500 years, and
          would thus include Sutta (Agama/Nikaya), Vinaya, and Abhidhamma
          material. Later material would not be excluded, especially when it
          throws light on the early period. But the main focus of interest
          would be the shared, pre-sectarian material in the Nikayas/Agamas and

          The site will include its own content, and will also co-ordinate
          content found elsewhere on the net. Additionally we hope to promote
          feedback, utilizing some of the amazing talents of people such as on
          this yahoogroup, and actually generate new content throught the site.

          Some of the things we want to do will be quite straightforward. For
          example, one section would be for essays on early Buddhism. These can
          just be put there as pdf files for anyone to read.

          Another section would be for translations. We would not wish to
          duplicate efforts done elsewhere, so would not emphasize putting
          translations from Pali. The main aim would be to encourage
          translations of early materials from Chinese, Skt, and Tibetan.

          A further section would be devoted to original texts. Again, we would
          not put up Pali or Chinese texts (except in special circumstances),
          since these are easily available. We already have a significant
          amount of (hybrid) sanskrit versions of the early suttas in digital
          format, and would hope to eventually include all the available Skt
          material (which is becoming quite a large amount).

          A further large-scale project would be to include correspondence
          tables. The concordances between the Nikayas and Agamas were first
          done by Akanuma in 1929, and his is still the only work available to
          English speakers in the subject. It has all the errors one can only
          expect from a groundbreaking work of this scope. Rod Bucknell has
          compiled an updated concordance, using the revised tables in the
          modern Fo Guang edition of the Agamas. But even these have their
          errors. Ven Analayo is working through the Majjhima, and in a year or
          two will have completed this project, including a thourough revision
          of all concordances. I have done a little work on the Samyutta,
          enought to convince me that the job needs a more thorough going-over.

          So anyway, these concordance tables can be included in the website.
          Now, just to put them up there would already be a great service,
          making widely available concordances that are more accurate and easy
          to use than the standard edition. But we can do much more than that.

          I envisage creating a system whereby each reference in the
          concordance can be linked to the actual sutta on the web. So you look
          at the concordance under, say, DN 1. You click on the Pali link, that
          takes you to the Pali version of the sutta. You click on the Chinese
          ref, that takes you to the CBETA site for the Chinese version. If
          there is a Skt version, that link takes you there. Translations can
          also be included: one click takes you to the English trans of the
          Pali, another to the English trans of the Chinese (which in fact
          already exists on the web). The system can be extended to include
          relevant commentaries, studies, etc.

          Obviously we are starting to talk about a big project here. It might
          be useful to start out with a manageable chunk as a pilot project.
          Perhaps we could do the Digha before proceeding with the other
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