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RE: could someone help & Gombrich interview

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  • Bhante Sujato
    Hello Dr Oo, Junet, and Stephen Thanks for your kind messages and feedback. Dr Oo, you seem to be under a bit of a misapprehension - i came onto the group in
    Message 1 of 15 , Sep 6, 2004
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      Hello Dr Oo, Junet, and Stephen

      Thanks for your kind messages and feedback.

      Dr Oo, you seem to be under a bit of a misapprehension - i came onto
      the group in order to learn, not to teach, and have indeed learnt
      much. Since we all benefit from the kindeness of others in sharing
      their great wisdom, we should show gratitude by sharing what little
      we have. I'm doing a retreat in Singapore about April next year, and
      will probably visit Penang around the same time - i trust you're all
      flourishing in the Dhamma.

      Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
      teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST. Alas,
      it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think that
      certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading to one
      of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his book.
      To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma (textual
      teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
      structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
      truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
      Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by accident,
      and the significance of it is only just starting to become clear to
      me.

      It also is true, as Gombrich said, that it is rather a shame that
      practicing Buddhists remain unaware of some of the genuine advances
      made by modern scholarship - there's a slightly schizophrenic schism
      between the two that i would like to try to bridge. We need not
      fear, for we are not attacking the principles, but trying to clarify
      the manner in which the message has been passed down.

      Got to go. The Sravakabhumi manuscript just arrived by post and
      demands urgent sttention!

      Yours in Dhamma

      Bhante Sujato
    • thomaslaw03
      ... I hope that one day we would have English translation of Ven. Yin Shun s works, particularly, _The Formation of Early Buddhist Texts_. At least a clear and
      Message 2 of 15 , Sep 7, 2004
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        --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
        >
        > Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
        > teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST. Alas,
        > it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think that
        > certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading to one
        > of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his book.
        > To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma (textual
        > teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
        > structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
        > truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
        > Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by accident,
        > and the significance of it is only just starting to become clear to
        > me.
        >

        I hope that one day we would have English translation of Ven. Yin
        Shun's works, particularly, _The Formation of Early Buddhist Texts_.
        At least a clear and critical introductory English article of the
        book should come to exist. So, the wider Buddhist communities in the
        world could know why and how the Samyutta-nikaya/Samyukta-agama is
        historically an earliest collection of the Nikayas/Agamas, which Ven.
        Yin Shun suggests.

        Thomas Law
      • cheangoo
        Dear Bhante, Greetings again. It is kind of bhante to say that he is here to learn, not to teach. This says much about bhante s teaching quality, becuse a
        Message 3 of 15 , Sep 11, 2004
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          Dear Bhante,

          Greetings again. It is kind of bhante to say that he is here to
          learn, not to teach. This says much about bhante's teaching
          quality, becuse a good teacher learns as much as he teaches, because
          he incorporates what he learns into his teaching which comes from
          personal experience and not just from books and the written word. I
          just returned from bodhi monastery last night. Incidentally the
          abbot, Ven. Jen-Chun, is a disciple of Master Yin-Shun who he is
          currently visiting in Taiwan. Bhante Bodhi knows about Bhante's
          work on the Agamas and Pali Nikayas and wishes to get hold of some
          of your written work although I mentioned that I would send him a
          videoCD of the talk Bhante gave in Penang in June. I imagine this
          would be the GIST booklet printed in Singapore. You mentioned that
          it is out of print. I wonder if someone at the Brahm Institute in
          Singapore has a spare copy that they can send to Bhikkhu Bodhi at
          boshi monastery, 67 Lawrence Road, Lafayette, NJ 07848, USA.

          Please let us have your travel schedule for April when you are
          coming to Singapore. We look forward to your visit again to Penang
          then. Although you may be staying mostly with Dustin, you may want
          to know that Peace House has moved to a nearby locality end of
          August. We has a special moving in ceremony with dana and special
          blessings by a Sanghs of five monks on the occasion.

          A Sangha of about 20 monks met in Balik Pulau 42 days after Bhante
          Wong's passing away and Ajahn Mahanyano has been appointed senior
          monk for the Bodhiyana Buddhist hermitage in Balik Pulau, which he
          has accepted for one year. But he is currently spending his rains
          in Bukit Mertajam having promised some devotees before the
          appointment came about. There are not too many Dhamma occasions in
          Penang current, being the quiet Vassa period with much less movement
          around the country.

          Respectfully yours in the Dhamma,

          Oo Khaik-Cheang

          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
          > Hello Dr Oo, Junet, and Stephen
          >
          > Thanks for your kind messages and feedback.
          >
          > Dr Oo, you seem to be under a bit of a misapprehension - i came
          onto
          > the group in order to learn, not to teach, and have indeed learnt
          > much. Since we all benefit from the kindeness of others in sharing
          > their great wisdom, we should show gratitude by sharing what
          little
          > we have. I'm doing a retreat in Singapore about April next year,
          and
          > will probably visit Penang around the same time - i trust you're
          all
          > flourishing in the Dhamma.
          >
          > Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
          > teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST.
          Alas,
          > it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think that
          > certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading to
          one
          > of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his book.
          > To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma
          (textual
          > teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
          > structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
          > truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
          > Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by accident,
          > and the significance of it is only just starting to become clear
          to
          > me.
          >
          > It also is true, as Gombrich said, that it is rather a shame that
          > practicing Buddhists remain unaware of some of the genuine
          advances
          > made by modern scholarship - there's a slightly schizophrenic
          schism
          > between the two that i would like to try to bridge. We need not
          > fear, for we are not attacking the principles, but trying to
          clarify
          > the manner in which the message has been passed down.
          >
          > Got to go. The Sravakabhumi manuscript just arrived by post and
          > demands urgent sttention!
          >
          > Yours in Dhamma
          >
          > Bhante Sujato
        • thomaslaw03
          Dear All, Saptaparni cave (P. Sattapa.n.ni-guhaa or Seven leave-cave) is regarded a place where the first council of the Sa ngha held. It is located on the top
          Message 4 of 15 , Sep 11, 2004
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            Dear All,

            Saptaparni cave (P. Sattapa.n.ni-guhaa or Seven leave-cave) is
            regarded a place where the first council of the Sa"ngha held. It is
            located on the top of the hill Vaibhaara (Vebhaara) in Rajgir. I
            visited there few years ago, and doubted the place is possibly not
            the actual site of the historical council. Does anyone know any
            information regarding how the site is considered the actual site of
            the council? Thank you.

            Yin-shun has suggested that only SN/SA is originated from the first
            council; the other nikaaya/aagamas are not. I am therefore also
            interested in the historical site.

            Sincerely,

            Thomas Law
          • Piya Tan
            Dear Thomas, Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun s book The Formation of Early Buddhist Texts . I plan to buy this book and look for
            Message 5 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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              Dear Thomas,

              Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's book "The Formation of
              Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some people who might be
              able to translate this book into English.

              I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will do the English/Pali
              editing.

              Sukhi

              Piya

              ---------

              thomaslaw03 wrote:

              > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
              > >
              > > Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
              > > teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST. Alas,
              > > it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think that
              > > certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading to one
              > > of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his book.
              > > To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma (textual
              > > teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
              > > structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
              > > truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
              > > Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by accident,
              > > and the significance of it is only just starting to become clear to
              > > me.
              > >
              >
              > I hope that one day we would have English translation of Ven. Yin
              > Shun's works, particularly, _The Formation of Early Buddhist Texts_.
              > At least a clear and critical introductory English article of the
              > book should come to exist. So, the wider Buddhist communities in the
              > world could know why and how the Samyutta-nikaya/Samyukta-agama is
              > historically an earliest collection of the Nikayas/Agamas, which Ven.
              > Yin Shun suggests.
              >
              > Thomas Law
              >
              >
              > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
              > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
              > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
              > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
              > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Bhante Sujato
              Hi Piya Tan, Dr Oo, Thomas There is a Yin Shun Foundation in Taiwan that is undertaking a complete translation into English of Yin Shun s entire corpus - a
              Message 6 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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                Hi Piya Tan, Dr Oo, Thomas

                There is a Yin Shun Foundation in Taiwan that is undertaking a
                complete translation into English of Yin Shun's entire corpus - a
                considerable work. According to Rod Bucknell, though, they are
                mainly focussing on his more popular, humanistic Buddhism work
                first, rather than the serious scholarly researches. It would be
                worth enquiring with them as to their progress. Maybe we can lobby
                them to translate the 'Formation' quickly! Try asking Rod, or Choong
                Mun-keat about this.

                For Dr Oo, it's not that the GIST is out of print, but that some of
                the research and information is out of date already. You should be
                able to get copies from the Buddhist Fellowship in Singapore. Still,
                most of it is still sound, and i think the overall ideas have been
                substantially buttressed by several new bits of information.

                Probably the most important is the complete contents of the Skt DA
                (Sarvastivada), which i have just got details of. I dug around and
                found the scholar who's working on the new manuscript finds, Jen-Uwe
                Hartmann, and popped him off an email. He was kind enough to respond
                with an article giving the latest research findings. Very exciting!
                If anyone wants a copy, let me know offline and i'll forward the pdf
                file. Give me a few days and i'll be able to post the essential
                contents here.

                Re the sattapanni cave, it's strange that you mention it, but i had
                the same feeling. I'm not sure what the evidence is for identifying
                it, but it seems far too small, even allowing for the obvious rock-
                falls.

                And as a notice regarding monks funerals, i should mention that the
                funeral of Luang Po Pannavaddho has just taken place. He was the
                senior westerner monk in Thailand, the vice-abbot at Ajahn Maha
                Bua's monastery, and a highly respected practitioner. He died of
                cancer, passing away peacefully. Ajahn Maha Bua has kindly offered
                the relics to the western Sangha, and they will be distributed among
                the various branches over the world. Apparently some have
                crystallized already...

                in Dhamma

                Bhante Sujato


                --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                > Dear Thomas,
                >
                > Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's
                book "The Formation of
                > Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some
                people who might be
                > able to translate this book into English.
                >
                > I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will
                do the English/Pali
                > editing.
                >
                > Sukhi
                >
                > Piya
                >
                > ---------
                >
                > thomaslaw03 wrote:
                >
                > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
                > > > teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST.
                Alas,
                > > > it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think
                that
                > > > certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading
                to one
                > > > of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his
                book.
                > > > To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma
                (textual
                > > > teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
                > > > structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
                > > > truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
                > > > Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by
                accident,
                > > > and the significance of it is only just starting to become
                clear to
                > > > me.
                > > >
                > >
                > > I hope that one day we would have English translation of Ven. Yin
                > > Shun's works, particularly, _The Formation of Early Buddhist
                Texts_.
                > > At least a clear and critical introductory English article of the
                > > book should come to exist. So, the wider Buddhist communities in
                the
                > > world could know why and how the Samyutta-nikaya/Samyukta-agama
                is
                > > historically an earliest collection of the Nikayas/Agamas, which
                Ven.
                > > Yin Shun suggests.
                > >
                > > Thomas Law
                > >
                > >
                > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                digest or web only.
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
              • thomaslaw03
                Dear Piya, I am not sure what is pinyin version . If you mean the original Chinese version, you can buy this book easily in Singapore Buddhist bookshops. I
                Message 7 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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                  Dear Piya,

                  I am not sure what is "pinyin version". If you mean the original
                  Chinese version, you can buy this book easily in Singapore Buddhist
                  bookshops.

                  I will consider Rod Bucknell (Roderick S. Bucknell) is a well-
                  qualified scholar to do the English translation. He was a MA and PhD
                  supervisor of Choong Mun-keat at UQ and is now retired from the
                  university teaching duty. The Yin Shun's book is rather big; it will
                  take a long time to complete. I think a critical, analytical, and
                  detailed English review article of the book will also be essential to
                  the Buddhological circles.

                  Regards,

                  Thomas Law

                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                  > Dear Thomas,
                  >
                  > Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's
                  book "The Formation of
                  > Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some
                  people who might be
                  > able to translate this book into English.
                  >
                  > I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will do
                  the English/Pali
                  > editing.
                  >
                  > Sukhi
                  >
                  > Piya
                  >
                • Piya Tan
                  Bhante & friends, For those who know Chinese (I know almost none), in connection with the Chinese Buddhist texts, this website might be interesting.
                  Message 8 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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                    Bhante & friends,

                    For those who know Chinese (I know almost none), in connection with the Chinese
                    Buddhist texts, this website might be interesting.

                    http://jodi.ecs.soton.ac.uk/Articles/v03/i02/Wittern/

                    Sukhi

                    Piya

                    Bhante Sujato wrote:

                    > Hi Piya Tan, Dr Oo, Thomas
                    >
                    > There is a Yin Shun Foundation in Taiwan that is undertaking a
                    > complete translation into English of Yin Shun's entire corpus - a
                    > considerable work. According to Rod Bucknell, though, they are
                    > mainly focussing on his more popular, humanistic Buddhism work
                    > first, rather than the serious scholarly researches. It would be
                    > worth enquiring with them as to their progress. Maybe we can lobby
                    > them to translate the 'Formation' quickly! Try asking Rod, or Choong
                    > Mun-keat about this.
                    >
                    > For Dr Oo, it's not that the GIST is out of print, but that some of
                    > the research and information is out of date already. You should be
                    > able to get copies from the Buddhist Fellowship in Singapore. Still,
                    > most of it is still sound, and i think the overall ideas have been
                    > substantially buttressed by several new bits of information.
                    >
                    > Probably the most important is the complete contents of the Skt DA
                    > (Sarvastivada), which i have just got details of. I dug around and
                    > found the scholar who's working on the new manuscript finds, Jen-Uwe
                    > Hartmann, and popped him off an email. He was kind enough to respond
                    > with an article giving the latest research findings. Very exciting!
                    > If anyone wants a copy, let me know offline and i'll forward the pdf
                    > file. Give me a few days and i'll be able to post the essential
                    > contents here.
                    >
                    > Re the sattapanni cave, it's strange that you mention it, but i had
                    > the same feeling. I'm not sure what the evidence is for identifying
                    > it, but it seems far too small, even allowing for the obvious rock-
                    > falls.
                    >
                    > And as a notice regarding monks funerals, i should mention that the
                    > funeral of Luang Po Pannavaddho has just taken place. He was the
                    > senior westerner monk in Thailand, the vice-abbot at Ajahn Maha
                    > Bua's monastery, and a highly respected practitioner. He died of
                    > cancer, passing away peacefully. Ajahn Maha Bua has kindly offered
                    > the relics to the western Sangha, and they will be distributed among
                    > the various branches over the world. Apparently some have
                    > crystallized already...
                    >
                    > in Dhamma
                    >
                    > Bhante Sujato
                    >
                    > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                    > > Dear Thomas,
                    > >
                    > > Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's
                    > book "The Formation of
                    > > Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some
                    > people who might be
                    > > able to translate this book into English.
                    > >
                    > > I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will
                    > do the English/Pali
                    > > editing.
                    > >
                    > > Sukhi
                    > >
                    > > Piya
                    > >
                    > > ---------
                    > >
                    > > thomaslaw03 wrote:
                    > >
                    > > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Bhante Sujato" <sujato@d...> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Junet, yes i did give a talk on the structure of the Buddha's
                    > > > > teachings, and published a book on the topic called The GIST.
                    > Alas,
                    > > > > it's already out-of-date and revisions are underway. I think
                    > that
                    > > > > certain ideas pursued by Ven Yin Shun and others are leading
                    > to one
                    > > > > of the great breakthroughs that Gombrich talked about in his
                    > book.
                    > > > > To sum up briefly: the large scale structure of the Dhamma
                    > (textual
                    > > > > teachings) in its earliest redaction was modelled after the
                    > > > > structure of the Dhamma (truth of reality) itself, the 4 noble
                    > > > > truths. This is approximately what we today call the Samyutta
                    > > > > Nikaya/Agama. I started pursuing such matters almost by
                    > accident,
                    > > > > and the significance of it is only just starting to become
                    > clear to
                    > > > > me.
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > I hope that one day we would have English translation of Ven. Yin
                    > > > Shun's works, particularly, _The Formation of Early Buddhist
                    > Texts_.
                    > > > At least a clear and critical introductory English article of the
                    > > > book should come to exist. So, the wider Buddhist communities in
                    > the
                    > > > world could know why and how the Samyutta-nikaya/Samyukta-agama
                    > is
                    > > > historically an earliest collection of the Nikayas/Agamas, which
                    > Ven.
                    > > > Yin Shun suggests.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thomas Law
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                    > digest or web only.
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    >
                    >
                    > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                    > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                    > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                    > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                    > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • thomaslaw03
                    Dear Piya, The pinyin of the book s title is: Yuanshi Fojiao Shengdian zhi Jicheng [the Formation of Early Buddhist Texts] This pinyin is according to Choong
                    Message 9 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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                      Dear Piya,

                      The pinyin of the book's title is:

                      Yuanshi Fojiao Shengdian zhi Jicheng [the Formation of Early Buddhist
                      Texts]

                      This pinyin is according to Choong Mun-keat's book:

                      The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism: A comparative study
                      based on the Suutraa"nga portion of the Paali Sa.myutta-Nikaaya and
                      the Chinese Sa.myuktaagama (= Beitrage zur Indologie 32)(Harrassowitz
                      Verlag, Wiesbaden, 2000). The author's personal website is
                      http://www.geocities.com/cmkwk/cmkwk_page.html

                      I do have the Yin Shun's book, which is published in 1971 (first
                      edition).

                      Regards,

                      Thomas Law

                      --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                      > Dear Thomas,
                      >
                      > Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's
                      book "The Formation of
                      > Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some
                      people who might be
                      > able to translate this book into English.
                      >
                      > I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will do
                      the English/Pali
                      > editing.
                      >
                      > Sukhi
                      >
                      > Piya
                      >
                    • Piya Tan
                      Dear Thomas, Pinyin is the phonetical system using roman (English) letters to replace Chinese sounds and characters, and reflecting the tones. This helps
                      Message 10 of 15 , Sep 12, 2004
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                        Dear Thomas,

                        Pinyin is the phonetical system using roman (English) letters to replace Chinese
                        sounds and characters, and reflecting the tones. This helps Chinese-challenged
                        bananas like myself.

                        Anyway, someone from the NUS has given this title in pinyin to me.

                        Yes I am in contact with both Rod and Choong. In fact I meet Choong recently during
                        the Theravada Conference at the Asian Research Institute, NUS here.

                        Thanks for your advice. I hope we can get Ven Yinshun's book in English soon.

                        Sukhi

                        Piya

                        thomaslaw03 wrote:

                        > Dear Piya,
                        >
                        > I am not sure what is "pinyin version". If you mean the original
                        > Chinese version, you can buy this book easily in Singapore Buddhist
                        > bookshops.
                        >
                        > I will consider Rod Bucknell (Roderick S. Bucknell) is a well-
                        > qualified scholar to do the English translation. He was a MA and PhD
                        > supervisor of Choong Mun-keat at UQ and is now retired from the
                        > university teaching duty. The Yin Shun's book is rather big; it will
                        > take a long time to complete. I think a critical, analytical, and
                        > detailed English review article of the book will also be essential to
                        > the Buddhological circles.
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        >
                        > Thomas Law
                        >
                        > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                        > > Dear Thomas,
                        > >
                        > > Do you (or anyone) know the pinyin version of Ven Yinshun's
                        > book "The Formation of
                        > > Early Buddhist Texts". I plan to buy this book and look for some
                        > people who might be
                        > > able to translate this book into English.
                        > >
                        > > I am looking for someone well versed in Buddhist Chinese. I will do
                        > the English/Pali
                        > > editing.
                        > >
                        > > Sukhi
                        > >
                        > > Piya
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                        > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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                      • Ong Yong Peng
                        Dear Piya, Thomas and friends, Ven. Yin Shun s writings are available freely here: http://203.69.14.204:1215/read?database=yinshun This online database offers
                        Message 11 of 15 , Sep 13, 2004
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                          Dear Piya, Thomas and friends,

                          Ven. Yin Shun's writings are available freely here:
                          http://203.69.14.204:1215/read?database=yinshun
                          This online database offers a search engine for the entire collection.

                          There is another site which offers easier (plain HTML) reading:
                          http://www.shengyimaster.org/yinshun/33/yinshun33-00.html

                          The above sites require your web browser to be equipped with Chinese
                          display capability. Yin Shun Foundation in North America has
                          translated part of his Miao Yun Ji compilation into English. I am not
                          sure about the rest. http://www.yinshun.org/

                          His writings (in Chinese) is also available on a CD-ROM now. It may
                          be available in Singapore. It's amazing. I can't afford the
                          shelfspace for his Miao Yun Ji compilation. Now it (with Hua Yu Ji
                          compilation and 12 specialist books) all goes onto a small piece of
                          plastic. http://www.yinshun.org.tw/


                          metta,
                          Yong Peng

                          --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, thomaslaw03 wrote:
                          Yuanshi Fojiao Shengdian zhi Jicheng [the Formation of Early Buddhist
                          Texts]
                        • Piya Tan
                          Thanks Yong Peng, I have downloaded the whole book, some 900 pages. Now I have to contact the Yinshun Foundation in US for permission to translate it. And also
                          Message 12 of 15 , Sep 14, 2004
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                            Thanks Yong Peng,

                            I have downloaded the whole book, some 900 pages.
                            Now I have to contact the Yinshun Foundation in US for permission to translate it.
                            And also look for someone or some people to help translate the book. If there are
                            enough people to help, we can make this a public domain book.

                            Sukhi

                            Piya

                            -------------

                            Ong Yong Peng wrote:

                            > Dear Piya, Thomas and friends,
                            >
                            > Ven. Yin Shun's writings are available freely here:
                            > http://203.69.14.204:1215/read?database=yinshun
                            > This online database offers a search engine for the entire collection.
                            >
                            > There is another site which offers easier (plain HTML) reading:
                            > http://www.shengyimaster.org/yinshun/33/yinshun33-00.html
                            >
                            > The above sites require your web browser to be equipped with Chinese
                            > display capability. Yin Shun Foundation in North America has
                            > translated part of his Miao Yun Ji compilation into English. I am not
                            > sure about the rest. http://www.yinshun.org/
                            >
                            > His writings (in Chinese) is also available on a CD-ROM now. It may
                            > be available in Singapore. It's amazing. I can't afford the
                            > shelfspace for his Miao Yun Ji compilation. Now it (with Hua Yu Ji
                            > compilation and 12 specialist books) all goes onto a small piece of
                            > plastic. http://www.yinshun.org.tw/
                            >
                            > metta,
                            > Yong Peng
                            >
                            > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, thomaslaw03 wrote:
                            > Yuanshi Fojiao Shengdian zhi Jicheng [the Formation of Early Buddhist
                            > Texts]
                            >
                            >
                            > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                            > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                            > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                            > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                            > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Stephen Hodge
                            Dear Piya, ... Do you happen to have the full URL for the book ? I d like to download it too. Best wishes. Stephen Hodge
                            Message 13 of 15 , Sep 14, 2004
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                              Dear Piya,

                              > I have downloaded the whole book, some 900 pages.
                              Do you happen to have the full URL for the book ? I'd like to download it
                              too.

                              Best wishes.
                              Stephen Hodge
                            • Piya Tan
                              Dear Stephen, The URL is http://www.hku.hk/buddhist/yinshun/33/yinshun-33-00.html You have to be patient as they have to be downloaded chapter by chapter.
                              Message 14 of 15 , Sep 15, 2004
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                                Dear Stephen,

                                The URL is

                                http://www.hku.hk/buddhist/yinshun/33/yinshun-33-00.html

                                You have to be patient as they have to be downloaded chapter by chapter.

                                Sukhi

                                Piya

                                Stephen Hodge wrote:

                                > Dear Piya,
                                >
                                > > I have downloaded the whole book, some 900 pages.
                                > Do you happen to have the full URL for the book ? I'd like to download it
                                > too.
                                >
                                > Best wishes.
                                > Stephen Hodge
                                >
                                >
                                > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                                > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web only.
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Bhante Sujato
                                Hello Piya tan and Stephen Fantastic that you are going ahead with translating Yin Shun s work. I think this will have an important impact on how we think
                                Message 15 of 15 , Sep 15, 2004
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                                  Hello Piya tan and Stephen

                                  Fantastic that you are going ahead with translating Yin Shun's work.
                                  I think this will have an important impact on how we think about our
                                  scritural heritage.

                                  One of Yin Shun's theses is that the original collection consisted
                                  of just the three angas - sutta, geyya, vyakarana. A central piece
                                  of evidence is that just these three alone are mentioned in the
                                  Mahasunnata Sutta in the both Pali (MN122) and Chinese (MA190). I
                                  have been trying to see if there is any additional support for this
                                  idea in the textual records, and have come up with a few snippets.
                                  But the Mahasunnata Sutta has a Tibetan counterpart, too (P957; P
                                  XXXVIII 279). I wonder if this also mentions the 3 angas? Could
                                  someone look this up?

                                  in Dhamma

                                  bhante Sujato



                                  --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan <libris@s...> wrote:
                                  > Dear Stephen,
                                  >
                                  > The URL is
                                  >
                                  > http://www.hku.hk/buddhist/yinshun/33/yinshun-33-00.html
                                  >
                                  > You have to be patient as they have to be downloaded chapter by
                                  chapter.
                                  >
                                  > Sukhi
                                  >
                                  > Piya
                                  >
                                  > Stephen Hodge wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Dear Piya,
                                  > >
                                  > > > I have downloaded the whole book, some 900 pages.
                                  > > Do you happen to have the full URL for the book ? I'd like to
                                  download it
                                  > > too.
                                  > >
                                  > > Best wishes.
                                  > > Stephen Hodge
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
                                  > > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
                                  > > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
                                  digest or web only.
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
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